Spike's Tactical SAR Discussion

[TripleBravo]

The Spike's Tactical SAR review is up here: http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?3059-Spike-s-Tactical-SAR&p=28532#post28532

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww189/wjt1169/SAR%20Review/upperoncase01.jpg

Please comment and question here.

[Quib]

Great work as always TB!

[Cannon Fodder]

triplebravo,

Thanks for the SAR eye candy!

Question: How do you rate the performance of the QD system on the SAR? Please factor in reliability, angle (positional axis), and durability of the QD sling loop.

Thank you,

Cannon

[AR-10]

I like how they contoured the tip, looks like it would feel nice in your support hand.

Not sure if I understand the reasoning behind the titanium barrel nut, they're using an expensive material that is harder to machine, just to save a tiny bit of weight.

I also don't understand the offset T slots on the side rails.

[Cannon Fodder]

Not sure if I understand the reasoning behind the titanium barrel nut, they're using an expensive material that is harder to machine, just to save a tiny bit of weight.

Looking at their pricing posted in the review for a 7" SAR, vs a ST 7" BAR (http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/spikes-tactical-7-bar-rail-p-446.html): $98 dollar price difference with similar included equipment. That's certainly something to consider.

The AR-15 I'm having Spike's build is priced with a 12" SAR. I chose it specifically because of the thinner profile, and reduced weight, I'm personally excited to give it a good workout. [Edit] I'm also wondering if the ruggedness of the nut will increase the potential durability at the mounting point. I'm planning on doing a few good combat drills (diving into the prone, etc) to see if it has any effect on the weapon. That's one thing I've been wary of with free floating systems.

[TripleBravo]

triplebravo,

Thanks for the SAR eye candy!

Question: How do you rate the performance of the QD system on the SAR? Please factor in reliability, angle (positional axis), and durability of the QD sling loop.

Thank you,

Cannon

The QD loop provided with the rail is of the heavy duty type with a large push button. The QD sockets on the rail DO NOT limit rotation. Though for my uses I prefer a QD socket that limits rotation, I've learned to deal with the many that do not. 99% of the time I run a Blue Force Gear Vickers padded two point sling with sewn in QD sling loops attached on the stock and on a QD socket near the receiver.

[TripleBravo]

Looking at their pricing posted in the review for a 7" SAR, vs a ST 7" BAR (http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/spikes-tactical-7-bar-rail-p-446.html): $98 dollar price difference with similar included equipment. That's certainly something to consider.

The AR-15 I'm having Spike's build is priced with a 12" SAR. I chose it specifically because of the thinner profile, and reduced weight, I'm personally excited to give it a good workout. [Edit] I'm also wondering if the ruggedness of the nut will increase the potential durability at the mounting point. I'm planning on doing a few good combat drills (diving into the prone, etc) to see if it has any effect on the weapon. That's one thing I've been wary of with free floating systems.

As I continue to use the SAR I'll report on my experience with "ruggedness", however I have a slight bit of concern about this longest 13.2 inch version: As forces exert pressure side to side on the muzzle end of the rail, the added length could act upon the mounting point at the other end with considerable leverage. After installation though, it certainly feels rock solid.

The BAR mounts to its proprietary barrel nut with eight screws that go directly into the nut itself. This mounting method has definitely proven rock solid in my experience thus far.

[TripleBravo]

I like how they contoured the tip, looks like it would feel nice in your support hand.

Not sure if I understand the reasoning behind the titanium barrel nut, they're using an expensive material that is harder to machine, just to save a tiny bit of weight.

I also don't understand the offset T slots on the side rails.

I think, though it's speculation on my part, that in addition to saving weight, using titanium was also a way to have a thin, but rigid and strong barrel nut.

[Cannon Fodder]

Thank you for your responses, triplebravo.

Hmm. So I took a minute out to educate myself on the specific differences in the properties of aluminum vs. titanium. Aside from the fact that titanium actually weighs and costs more than aluminum per volume, the only benefits we're likely to see is its relative strength, and the resistance to work-fatigue and corrosion. I'd like to know what the specifics of that titanium nut are (ie: what alloy type) since the composition can greatly affect its overall strength. The argument would probably be more like: It's only lighter if it's smaller and thinner.

If anyone is expressly bored, we might academically benefit from knowing the weight of each barrel nut.

Note: I dont want to seem like I'm picking at the Titanium Vs. Aluminum topic. Obviously ST and Seekins picked the Titanium nut for a good reason, and this is strictly academic. I'm NOT dissatisfied, I'm just curious [BD].

[AR-10]

Might want to do a comparison on steel vs. titanium since barrel nuts are not aluminum.

What triplebravo said makes sense, I was just wondering because I know how much a single titanium component can add to the cost of a product.

Even small titanium fasteners are expensive, so that titanium barrel nut has got to be pricey.

[Cannon Fodder]

Might want to do a comparison on steel vs. titanium since barrel nuts are not aluminum.

What triplebravo said makes sense, I was just wondering because I know how much a single titanium component can add to the cost of a product.

Even small titanium fasteners are expensive, so that titanium barrel nut has got to be pricey.

Not to be disagreeable, but Spike's website specifically says:


-The BAR rail is Machined from 6061-T6 Aluminum, The barrel nut is Machined from 7075-T6 Aluminum

I apologise if I didn't directly state that my intention was to compare the 7" BAR vs. the 7" SAR. I believe that the barrel nuts do not vary between SAR lengths, so any of the SAR barrel nuts should be the same.

[AR-10]

I am comparing steel to titanium regardless of what they are using.

A standard AR barrel nut is steel.

Steel weighs more, costs less, and is easier to machine than titanium.

[Cannon Fodder]

I am comparing steel to titanium regardless of what they are using.

A standard AR barrel nut is steel.

Steel weighs more, costs less, and is easier to machine than titanium.

Fair enough! I assume most people are simply looking to do a direct purchase over the many options available. I'm simply positioning my questions with the argument in mind of: "If I have or know the BAR, should I get a SAR based upon this review?"

[AR-10]

Well, you educated me about something in this thread - I had no idea Spike's made a handguard with an aluminum barrel nut.

I just assumed everyone made them out of steel, since I've played around with a few free-floating systems and they all came with steel replacement barrel nuts.

[Cannon Fodder]

Well, you educated me about something in this thread - I had no idea Spike's made a handguard with an aluminum barrel nut.

I just assumed everyone made them out of steel, since I've played around with a few free-floating systems and they all came with steel replacement barrel nuts.

Looks like we're both learning! I enjoy a good discussion [:D] Thanks for bearing with me.

I've googled around, as I don't have the means to directly test anything right now, but I didn't find any useful information on the specific weight of a standard barrel nut (for instance, High Standard mfg. AR15-Barrel Nut AR-B73-61902). :(

It may be a good time to state that, when compared to the Spike's Tactical BAR, the SAR offers an average combined weight reduction of 4 oz. (ST Forum (http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33&start=23))



The 12" BAR is 16oz. (479 grams)

The 12" SAR is 12oz. (340.19 grams)

There is apx. a 4oz. (113.39 grams) difference between the BAR and SAR (this works out for most lengths).

As an example of weight saving, going from a Government profile M4 barrel to a lightweight pencil profile barrel will only shave off apx. 2oz (56.69 grams).


Academically:

So now we're looking at Aluminum vs. Steel vs. Titanium. Somebody please reel me in if this isn't the place for this specific discussion. Reading this, you might be asking "Why is he focusing on a barrel nut?" Well, it seems prudent, since many people agonize over this pin, or that.. and I have read posts of people swapping out a seemingly insignificant parts all in the name of overall weight reduction.

- Hypothesis: A Titanium barrel nut is relatively smaller, stronger, more corrosion resistant, and potentially lighter than other available methods (because of its space-saving construction). This may actually be a very good thing, since both aluminum and steel are subject to specific types corrosion. For this barrel nut, I'm thinking a good layer of grease between the nut and barrel would render this an extremely durable long-lasting solution.

Any thoughts?