New Build (add your 0.02 please)

[The-S]

Alright I'm starting a new build and would like some input.

Lower: Tac Innovations T15BDX (unless there is another "clean" billet lower
Lower Parts: Any really (I do my own trigger jobs)
Upper: Rainier Ultra Match Billet upper with gunfighter latch
Barrel: 13.7 White Oak with perm KX3
Rail: This is where I am stuck. I love the clean look, so do I go with a troy 13in rail or a Vtac 12in tube or the JP 15.5 tub or something Daniel Defense?
Magpul BAD
Voltor Emod Stock
Optic: Aimpoint Comp m2 or Vortex Strikefire.
Irons: Not sure
Grip: Ergo rubber


Thats the basics. I look forward to your input guys!

[Paulo_Santos]

Is this a fun gun or for serious use?

[The-S]

Is this a fun gun or for serious use?

Both. I intern in LE and do quite a few classes. So mostly a training gun.

[Paulo_Santos]

Both. I intern in LEO and do quite a few classes. So mostly a training gun.

Then I'd get the Troy TRX Standard or Extreme for the rails and I'd also get the MBUS Gen 2 Front and Rear. Get a quality lower parts kit. The price isn't too much of a difference between manufacturers, but quality is, so don't skimp on that. Also, train with what you plan on using. If you plan on using the BAD levers on all of your guns, then also put it on this one, if not, then I'd leave it off. I personally don't want to learn two different manual of arms, so I don't use the BAD levers.

[The-S]

Then I'd get the Troy TRX Standard or Extreme for the rails and I'd also get the MBUS Gen 2 Front and Rear. Get a quality lower parts kit. The price isn't too much of a difference between manufacturers, but quality is, so don't skimp on that. Also, train with what you plan on using. If you plan on using the BAD levers on all of your guns, then also put it on this one, if not, then I'd leave it off. I personally don't want to learn two different manual of arms, so I don't use the BAD levers.

Thanks, I usually use a rock river or DD lpk. I do have and use BAD levers on all my guns. How is the weight on the troys?

[MoxyDave]

I have a T15BDX lower and a Rainier Ultra Match upper. Top-notch all the way. My LaRue rail was not coaxial with the bore on a Bushmaster upper, so I installed it on the Ultra Match and it was perfect. It would seem the manufacturing tolerances are quite good compared to some of the cheaper stuff out there. The billet lower seems a bit heavy. I will be using forged lowers from now on. The rest of your parts look good to me. Choices like these are highly subjective ... the good news is there are an amazing array of manufacturers making quality parts nowadays.

[CCK]

13.7 and a kx3 looks awful cool but I'd rather have a 14.5 and a better, less heavy muzzle device. If you are worried about others on line in a class I get the KX3. Me personally I'd take a PWS or Surefire MB556 (both of which I have) or a battle comp or Knights (which I don't)

Chris

[The-S]

I have a T15BDX lower and a Rainier Ultra Match upper. Top-notch all the way. My LaRue rail was not coaxial with the bore on a Bushmaster upper, so I installed it on the Ultra Match and it was perfect. It would seem the manufacturing tolerances are quite good compared to some of the cheaper stuff out there. The billet lower seems a bit heavy. I will be using forged lowers from now on. The rest of your parts look good to me. Choices like these are highly subjective ... the good news is there are an amazing array of manufacturers making quality parts nowadays.
Have any pics? Thanks for the advice!!!


13.7 and a kx3 looks awful cool but I'd rather have a 14.5 and a better, less heavy muzzle device. If you are worried about others on line in a class I get the KX3. Me personally I'd take a PWS or Surefire MB556 (both of which I have) or a battle comp or Knights (which I don't)

Chris
I had thought about just that but am not happy with the ATF right now (took way to long) so my shorty got scrapped into this build.

[Uglyduck]

Just some thoughts I had on things I would (did) consider. And as stated above, custom builds are personal so YMMV


Both. I intern in LE and do quite a few classes. So mostly a training gun.

With this in mind I'd let my needs on duty dictate this build, and my reasoning is this:

Shooting is fun and so are classes but LE work is very serious. So build the weapon to that standard even if it has the slightest potential to be used there. If you're never going to put it in the trunk of a patrol car then the needs become more like wants and your imagination will drive the design.


The KX3 is called the Flaming Pig for a reason. When employing it on a duty weapon could it make you a target? What advantage does it provide you? No right or wrong answer here, but something to think about.

The T15BDX is a beautiful lower but doesn't provide any functional improvements over a forged lower. I own one and like it because its pretty, thats it. In hindsight the additional money spent on it would have been better spent on something else.
I haven't weighed it but believe its slightly heavier as welll. I mention weight because its important to me when toting the thing all day. Is weight a consideration for you? How important is it?

When selecting a stock I'd choose something that provides all the functions I need (storage, sling attachments, whatever) but also balances the weapon in a manner I prefer. A stock's features often overshadow how it changes the weapon's handling characteristics, which I believe is equally important.

As for a rail I'd think about what I'm going to put on it. Lots of gadgets that I need to have or can I get away with something light and simple because I don't need much? The Troy/VTAC Battlerails are very light and provide a lot of flexibility, as do the MOE's.


Food for thought

[rob_s]

1) Identify perceived need
2) Evaluate current inventory and how it addresses need
3) Establish shortcomings in established inventory relative to perceived need
4) Compile specs based on 1-3 above
5) Employ final product in actual use (or reasonable facsimile thereof)
6) Evaluate success of final product

Or, if it's a fun gun, bolt together whatever parts look cool, or blow your skirt up, or impresses the guys at work, or compile a bunch of parts you've been wanting to try to see how they work out.

FWIW, IMO an RDS and a stainless steel barrel don't really complement each other very well.

For more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_Taxonomy

[CCK]

Have any pics? Thanks for the advice!!!


I had thought about just that but am not happy with the ATF right now (took way to long) so my shorty got scrapped into this build.

I meant permanently attached.
Chris

[Paulo_Santos]

Have you considered buying a complete AR? Or a complete upper?

[The-S]

Have you considered buying a complete AR? Or a complete upper?

I have considered a POF

[Eric]

(I do my own trigger jobs)

This has no place whatsoever in an LE weapon.

[The-S]

I just de bur them and bend the spring slightly. This isn't a LE weapon don't forget.

[Uglyduck]

Is this a fun gun or for serious use?


Both. I intern in LE and do quite a few classes. So mostly a training gun.


I just de bur them and bend the spring slightly. This isn't a LE weapon don't forget.


That isn't what you lead us to believe...

Since you referenced LE work when responding to Paulo's question I took that as your definition of "serious use". Maybe its different.

Lets regroup. What exactly do you intend to do with this rifle?
Your OP was vague as to what you're looking for input on. We can't validate the components for an intended use if that use isn't clearly defined unless you simply want reassurance in the quality of the components you chose.

[The-S]

That isn't what you lead us to believe...

Since you referenced LE work when responding to Paulo's question I took that as your definition of "serious use". Maybe its different.

Lets regroup. What exactly do you intend to do with this rifle?
Your OP was vague as to what you're looking for input on. We can't validate the components for an intended use if that use isn't clearly defined unless you simply want reassurance in the quality of the components you chose.

Intern and being a LEO are totally different. I don't have a trunk to put this gun into nor do I intend to. My internship is on the federal level and I intend to use this rifle for exactly the purposes I stated. I guess what I'm looking for is for opinions on what might work better/be a better part to use.

[rob_s]

Clearly define your use and we'll be able to clearly help you figure out if your combination of parts is suited to that use or if something else might work better.

You brought up this internship which got things off a wrong path.

It would hep tremendously to also know your reason for picking all these items as they relate to your (albeit vague) intended use. and your prior experience with ARs and what you find lacking in the ones you already have would help too.

My initial thoughts:


Lower: Tac Innovations T15BDX (unless there is another "clean" billet lower no reason to use billet
Lower Parts: Any really (I do my own trigger jobs) use a quality kit, DD is good, RRA is ok, and skip dicking around with the trigger it doesn't need it.
Upper: Rainier Ultra Match Billet upper with gunfighter latchno reason to use billet
Barrel: 13.7 White Oak with perm KX3 screwy combo. just use a 16" barrel and a quality FH or brake
Rail: This is where I am stuck. I love the clean look, so do I go with a troy 13in rail or a Vtac 12in tube or the JP 15.5 tub or something Daniel Defense? Daniel Defense MFAR might meet all your criteria
Magpul BAD
Voltor Emod Stock
Optic: Aimpoint Comp m2 or Vortex Strikefire. I'd skip vortex, and I'm not sure any RDS makes sense combined with a stainless barrel
Irons: Not sure can't go wrong with Troys IMO
Grip: Ergo rubber grips are very personal things, but I hate that one almost as much as the A2

[Paulo_Santos]

I believe he said it was going to be a training gun.

[Creeky73]

I have the T15 BDX and the Magpul BAD does not work with it. As to whether or not billet is necessary or worth it, of course it isn't necessary. Value is up to you. If you want to use parts that set your gun apart from the crowd, I don't see an issue with it. It isn't like you are having skull and crossbones airbrushed all over it. The main reason I wanted a billet lower was to get the trigger guard machined into the rest of the lower instead of being a separate piece. Turns out that a secondary benefit is that I get a compliment or two on it. And it works just fine. I don't regret the money on it.

[MoxyDave]

Sorry, no time to take pics right now :-(

It's fun to build up what you want just because you like it. However I have to admit after doing that a few times I've become a lot less concerned about billet this and that, and how things look. My preference now is a basic M4 with FailZero EXO-coated bolt group & Spike's EXO-coated trigger. The Nickel Boron coating is "slicker than snot" making the trigger really clean and crisp and cleanup a breeze. Carbon just doesn't stick to the EXO. Most times I just wipe the bolt group down with a rag, run a snake through the bore a couple times and I'm done.

A good quality 14.5" barrel with pinned Phantom is as short as I'd ever need. No tax stamps, no excessive blast & concussion, exceptional reliability (with good springs), no huge weight dangling off the end. I still use billet uppers because I've seen firsthand how much tighter the tolerances are. In my mind, the barrel, upper & bolt group makes up 90% of the weapon. The rest can be "adequate" and you can still have an exceptional gun.

[TehLlama]

A lot could be done with a simple forged lower (BCM, DD, API) with DD/LMT LPK and MOE Trigger guard; a forged upper with a top end 16" Middy (or 14.5" Middy if you want to perm a muzzle device for some reason), TROY/VTAC 13" Extreme Rail, Aimpoint PRO, and a pair of TROY Irons (or maybe DD Fixed irons, especially if you're looking at running an X300 @ 12:00 for weaponlight)

[rob_s]

I believe he said it was going to be a training gun.

I read that too, but it seems a little open-ended to me. Training for what? The training is not the end-state, or at least it's not for most people.

[Paulo_Santos]

I read that too, but it seems a little open-ended to me. Training for what? The training is not the end-state, or at least it's not for most people.

I'm guessing it is training with the Federal Police department he is interning with. Personally, if it is for that, any serviceable gun will work. What's the worse that could happen? Malfunctions? That just means more malfunction training. LOL.

[The-S]

I'm guessing it is training with the Federal Police department he is interning with. Personally, if it is for that, any serviceable gun will work. What's the worse that could happen? Malfunctions? That just means more malfunction training. LOL.

Thank you. I own quite a few black guns and wanted to build something different that I didn't have.


Have any of you used a 14.5 barrel on a dd 14in rail?

[Paulo_Santos]

Thank you. I own quite a few black guns and wanted to build something different that I didn't have.


Have any of you used a 14.5 barrel on a dd 14in rail?

I had a 14" with the 12" DD. I think a 13.7" barrel with the 12" rail looks great with the flaming pig.

[The-S]

I cant find any good pics of it.

[Uglyduck]

The closest thing I could find were a couple of shot sin the NFA thread, but they weren't exactly like your description. Maybe Stick'll be along to help out.

[The-S]

The closest thing I could find were a couple of shot sin the NFA thread, but they weren't exactly like your description. Maybe Stick'll be along to help out.

exactly what I has waiting for lol

[rob_s]

Thank you. I own quite a few black guns and wanted to build something different that I didn't have.

And again, if you cam tell us what you already own and what you find functionally lacking in them it will help us help you. If the answer is "nothing" I'd Luther money for this new rifle towards ammo, mags, and training with what you have.

It is impossible for anyone to offer any real feedback of any value without know long what you have, what you've done with it, what you've found lacking, what you want, how you think that addresses the issues with what you have, and what you want to do with it when you're done. The more specific you can be the better.