Want to build an AR, new to forums

[hkdcamcain]

First off, I have spent a while (months) reading on AR 15s and i could never make up my mind. I ended up buying a Savage .308 last year instead of an AR because i couldn't make my mind up. Anyways, long story short, after reading pages upon pages i steered away from the Ruger SR-556. I am currently looking at a few options for uppers and lowers, BCM and Spike's Tactical are the two companies i am the most fond of. I have several rifles, shotguns and pistols, and have been shooting since i was 8. After firing a bushmaster i had to have an AR. Anyways, on to my Questions!
I am looking at the following:
Uppers:
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/spikes-tactical-16-m4-le-upper-w9-bar-rail-556-p-477.html
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-VLTOR-VIS-p/bcm-urg-16md%20bfh%20vis12.htm
I realize there is a price gap, but i would prefer a longer rail system, however i could put a different one on later.

Lowers:
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/biohazard-lower-w-enhanced-kit-black-ctr-stock-moe-grip-p-516.html
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=334405
I really like the Spikes, and i've seen nothing but good reviews from them

Just wondering if anyone with a little more experience has some input, thanks.

[Paulo_Santos]

Really great choices. Out of those two uppers, I prefer the Bravo Company because of the Monolithic upper. I'd also check out the LMT MRP uppers.

[Hatter]

You'll learn quickly that the best help can come from the wise individuals here WEVO when you're very clear as to your purpose and intent of the weapon. You state that you chose the Savage .308 because you couldn't make up your mind... Are we to assume that the AR isn't for hunting as the Savage probably is?

Let everyone know your intent and application of the rifle and everyone will be able to lend clear advice as to what may fit you better for that purpose.

With that said I agree with Paulo that you should check out the LMT. I own an LMT Piston MRP and love it. I believe that longer monolithic uppers are available with DI systems compared to the piston.

For the lowers the Spikes is more expensive but it seems to me to be a better deal. I prefer billet lowers (new build with Seekins in process) to forged and the ambi controls and magpul grip are added bonuses.

[hkdcamcain]

I'm also eyeing the Lower that AXTS has put out (http://axtsweapons.com/products/AX556), seems like a very good lower however i can't find much on it currently, it ALSO has the stock that i am very fond of (Magpul UBR). I am waiting to see what others say as to the selections. From what i know all of the ones i have picked are good choices, i'm just worried about how well they will mate up.

As for accessories:
2x Magpul 30rd Magazines
Magpul UBR (i have handled an AR with this stock and very much liked it)
Magpul MBUS backup sights Front & Rear
-More after i get a feel for the gun im sure

[hkdcamcain]

@Hatter

Ill try and address your questions:
Purpose/Intent-
Recreational shooting being the foremost- I live on farmland in South Carolina, with several open acres, and a space i have sectioned off that is 500 yards sectioned out
Varmint Shooting - Comes with the territory, i have alot of small critters that really love to chew holes in in everything
Defense - Im sure we all can understand this one.
Goals - I want something accurate to relatively long ranges while also maintaining its close(r) range appeal basicaly something to bridge the gap from my 12 gauge, to my .308 and something thats not so killer on my ammo fund

I purchased the Savage because my current line up consisted of 3 Shotguns, 6 Handguns, 3 22 cal rifles, and a very old WW2 Era 7mm Mauser my grandfather gave me. None of with could mount a scope and be used adequately for hunting purposes. I thought about buying the AR over and over, but it ended up i went with the Savage because it was a simple buy, put a scope on it, sight it in and shoot, and i really love the feel of an accurate rifle but plinking/target shooting is a little pricey with a 308 and i feel an AR would pay for itself with as much ammo as i go through. Now that i have that, i need something else, and i have always loved the AR's. At this point i have the money, but i want to be absolutely sure about my purchase before i buy it.

I have looked a little into LMT, but for 1,400 i dunno if an upper is really worth that. Also, i want the rail to run the length of the barrel and no iron sights built it, i am not a fan of the right triangle front sight.

[Jason Gibbs]

Well out of the uppers I would have to agree with Paulo_Santos. But as far as lowers go. Check out AGP Arms from Tempe, Arizona. I bought mine for $89 and I love it...Its every bit as nice as a Daniel Defense or POF lower. Its forged, has a semi flared magwell that Pmags glide through. Very matte black finish and my Daniel Defense LPK went in like butter...I love it and will buy more for my future builds. I do believe the price has been raised to $99. But its still a great deal. Have you thought about building the upper? I think you might get a more custom feel for less. Same thing for the lower...The good thing about building is the learning experience. You learn the guts of the gun. Thats just my opinion. If you wanna know anything else PM me and I'll be glad to help!

[hkdcamcain]

I want to put something together (upper and lower) that is a good setup from the beginning. Then as i get used to the rifle, or find things i would like to change i could tweak it here and there to get the ideal setup for me personally.

[Paulo_Santos]

Here's why I would seriously look at the LMT Rifle length MRP. You can swap out the different barrels for different purposes. I'd start with the 16" chrome lined barrel for your plinking and home defense. Later, you can add a 16" or 18" Stainless barrel for barking and accuracy shooting. I'd you later decided to hunt with the AR, get a 6.8 SPC barrel, bolt, and magazine, and some Hornady or SSA hunting ammo and you are set for hunting out to 300-400 yards.

[hkdcamcain]

the only upper they have that i can use (semi auto) and that is the design i would like (flat top, long rail) is here:
http://www.lmtstore.com/monolithic-rail-platforms-mrp-cqb/cqb-mrp-piston-top-end-12-semi-auto.html
But for 1500$??? thats a little excessive i think

i was debating getting the 6.8 spc for hunting later on, heard very good things about the caliber

[hkdcamcain]

Keeps asking for admins to clear what i post or something, but then sometimes it doesnt. Leaving me a little confused. Maybe its the links? Either way, can some one justify the 1,500$ for an upper vs the much cheaper BCM one that i was leaning towards?

BCM:
BCM BFH 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group w/ Vltor VIS 12"
Features
Cold Hammer Forged Barrels
M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension
M4 Feed Ramp Flat Top Receiver (VLTOR VIS)
USGI 1/7 Twist Rates
USGI 5.56 NATO Chambers
Mil-Spec 11595E - Certified Barrel Steel (CMV)
Chrome Lined Bore and Chamber
Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish
Mil-Spec F-Marked Forged Front Sights
USGI Government Profile Barrels
HPT (High Pressure Test) Barrels
MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Barrel

VS
LMT
Standard MRP™ Receiver, rifle length, upper assembly
and a choice of a barrel.
Doesnt give me much in the line of facts info on it...

Also, i thought all uppers had interchangeable barrels? is the LMT simpler or something?

[Paulo_Santos]

The LMT uses different barrels than a standard AR Upper. All you have to do is remove the two screws on the side and the barrel slides right off. You then slide the new one in and torque the bolts back on using the supplied torque wrench. YOu should be able to find an upper cheaper than that. I'd get a complete rifle instead of getting a different lower.

[Aragorn]

I want to put something together (upper and lower) that is a good setup from the beginning. Then as i get used to the rifle, or find things i would like to change i could tweak it here and there to get the ideal setup for me personally.

Smart.


Also, i thought all uppers had interchangeable barrels? is the LMT simpler or something?

You can install just about any barrel with any upper, but in order to actually "swap out" barrels out on a preexisting upper, you have to completely disassemble it. This involves removing the rail, gas block, and of course the barrel itself. Then you have to reinstall the new barrel going through the complete process of rebuilding the upper all over. With the LMT MRP mentioned, all you have to do is remove a bolt, loosen another, yank the barrel and slide in a new one, and put the bolts back in and tighten them up with a pre-set torque wrench that LMT provides with spare barrels.

That would be the advantage of a LMT MRP.

All that said, looking at your stated goals, I think you may be better served by going with a stainless barrel, seeing how you don't really plan to really abuse or beat the hell out of it. Get something like Noveske steel and it'll out shoot and in many cases outlast most of the chrome lined offerings. As for home defense, unless the Taliban in its entirety or Al'Qaeda breaks down your front door, you won't achieve the volume or rate of fire necessary for the absence of chrome to negatively effect your barrel.

Between the choices you have up between the LMT and BCM, for your stated purposes, I'd lean in favor of the LMT with a stainless barrel.

[hkdcamcain]

I have looked through the LMT line up, just now actually as my droid that i normally use doesnt seem to want to work lately. I really dont know what my distaste of the hard sights came from, but i cant stand the look of them. ALL of LMT's complete rifles come with the hard sights built on to the barrels from the factory. However, now you have me interested in the ability to swap barrels out so easily. I want to use a gas system, because ive heard alot of the pistons have issues etc. The LMT lowers seem pretty nice, ergo grips and i like the stocks aswell, id assume their upper+lower combo would be a perfect fit? Ive got around 12 web pages of stuff sitting here and im sifting through the uppers and lowers, i cannot find a complete rifle from BCM, LMT, or Spikes that i like. Daniel Defense makes a complete that is the same layout as i like however:
https://danieldefense.com/rifles/mid-length/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v5.html
This is just the look/shape/design i would like to have for my rifle, but now you've got my mind on those LMTs darn you!

[Uglyduck]

You can't go wrong with DD. I've got a V5 LW and use it for everything...HD, competition, etc. That said, I've gone through a few layouts to get to this one (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?817-Explain-your-AR15-layout.../page25) (post #372, since added a T-1 clone). We may have slightly different intended uses but dig around in that thread if you haven't already. The builds other members have posted may give you some ideas.

You'll sacrifice some longevity in a stainless barrel for more accuracy but it may be what you're looking for like Hatter suggested. BCM has some great stainless setups (although I can't find them on their new website) as does Noveske. Their Rogue Hunter's (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=16rh-556&cat=123&page=1&search=&since=&status=) a sweet setup and may suit your needs but its $1600 for a complete rifle.

[hkdcamcain]

I think i've got my head set on the LMT upper for sure, seems to be very simple to change out barrels and the fact that i could swap barrels depending on my purpose would be an excellent option. IE: getting an 18 inch stainless and a quick release mount with a scope, and then having the basic 16 setup for my plinking, defense, etc. I wonder if LMT would slap the upper and a lower together and sell it to me as a full rifle?

Lower: A basic lower with a grip i like
http://www.lmtstore.com/lower-halves/defender-lower-with-collapsing-stock-standard-trigger-and-ambi-selector.html

Upper: The correct rail length, and other aspects i wanted
http://www.lmtstore.com/monolithic-rail-platforms-mrp-cqb/standard-mrp-rifle-version.html

Although, a question, are all of the barrels interchangeable with the upper? or just the gas? it doesnt say which setup the upper is, although i assume its gas since the others specifically say "piston" in the title. They just seem to be vague on info, i probably should call them.

[Rodman24]

Here's a complete piston model

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1179

Here's a complete gas model

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1039

[hkdcamcain]

both have those hard sights =(
I need to call LMT and see if that can put it together with the two i listed. Only the upper doesn't say if its gas or piston.
I figure most my questions can be answered by LMT when i call, but i believe they are closed now so i'll wait till monday (just realized its friday).

[Paulo_Santos]

both have those hard sights =(
I need to call LMT and see if that can put it together with the two i listed. Only the upper doesn't say if its gas or piston.
I figure most my questions can be answered by LMT when i call, but i believe they are closed now so i'll wait till monday (just realized its friday).

Contact Rainier and I'm sure he can swap out those sights for some BUIS. Even if they can't, you can sell those sights and get your money back. I'd get some Magpul Gen 2 or the ARMS #71 BUIS.

[hkdcamcain]

is the front sight fixed in place or is it just mounted on the rail? looking closely i think both of them are just mounted on the rails... in which case thats fine by me. As for the rail, if i wanted to put a longer rail on it all i would have to do is buy a longer rail and simply bolt it in place of this one? That model is the most ideal i have seen thus far. I will probably call them aswell as LMT, if i can get either of them to build one with the lower and upper i mentioned earlier i believe i will be placing an order. as soon as i pick out an FFL near me

EDIT: Magpul v2's were the sights i wanted. flip downs are my favorite.

[Paulo_Santos]

is the front sight fixed in place or is it just mounted on the rail? looking closely i think both of them are just mounted on the rails... in which case thats fine by me. As for the rail, if i wanted to put a longer rail on it all i would have to do is buy a longer rail and simply bolt it in place of this one? That model is the most ideal i have seen thus far. I will probably call them aswell as LMT, if i can get either of them to build one with the lower and upper i mentioned earlier i believe i will be placing an order. as soon as i pick out an FFL near me

EDIT: Magpul v2's were the sights i wanted. flip downs are my favorite.

The rifle length MRP is like having a 12" handguard. The regular one is like having a 9" handguard. You can't add on to it. It is one complete upper. The sights that it comes with come off like any other sight.

[hkdcamcain]

The 12" handguard is what i would ideally like to have, and now i see what you mean, i didnt look at the rail itself till just now, i figured it was like most others in which it was simply a bolt on rail. I suppose the solid design makes it more rigid and better for sights. I have a small bipod and short range mildot scope id like to use, and idealy i would like the bipod as far forward so i can still use the collapsible front grip a buddy gave me. the 9 inch would allow me to mount a smaller barrel, but honestly id be more apt to grab a shotgun if i was ever using anything for closer ranges. I've found a few rifles here and there but most of them are cheaper or lower quality guns than id like. At this point im waiting for a day when i can call both LMT and Rainer to see what i could get and who has the best price.

Rainer does not have the rifle length upper, nor the bolt carrier groups, also nothing but 2 stage trigger lowers in stock... sigh. apparently it seems that even directly from LMT the wait could be quite extensive.

-Tombstone Tactical - Sold Out
-DSG Arms- Sold Out
-Operation Parts - Sold Out
-Cobra Tactical - Sold Out

Im picking up a pattern here...

[Paulo_Santos]

You are not going to find a more solid/rigid upper than the LMT because they are a true Monolithic upper. You get what you pay for. Their barrels are top notch also. Both the Chrome lined and the Stainless ones.

[hkdcamcain]

At this point, i am pretty well set on the LMT, but i may end up having to go with the shorter length rail and get the complete rifle, the big factor is the barrel for accuracy anyway, and the only thing i wanted to mount up front was a bipod.

[Paulo_Santos]

Call LMT and see what the wait times are. Shouldn't be much. Also call Rainier and see if they can order one for you and what the wait would be.

[TripleBravo]

Call LMT and see what the wait times are. Shouldn't be much. Also call Rainier and see if they can order one for you and what the wait would be.

I ordered a LMT MRP CQB on May 6th. It just shipped yesterday. Their website currently says "5 weeks".