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EODcrawler
21 July 2011, 00:59
The title pretty much says it all. I'm in the process of building my SBR. Finished the upper and I am about to start on the lower. I'm going to be using a Seekins billet lower and would like to keep this as clean as possible. I'd like to know the pros and cons for each and if you prefer one over the other. Just like to hear what everyone has to say before I make a final decision.

Eric

TripleBravo
21 July 2011, 01:46
If you're talking about the engraving required by federal law because you are doing a Form 1 to get a NFA tax stamp to make a SBR...you must have the engraving done on the lower. The lower is the regulated part.

EODcrawler
21 July 2011, 05:05
That is what I'm talking about. And if that's the case, I guess I have no choice.

Under DOJ Title 27, Chapter 2, Part 479, Subpart G, Section 479.102, it states that you, as the "maker/manufacturer" could identify the firearm on the frame, receiver or barrel.

If this is referring to something other than the making of an NFA/AOW type firearm, please let me know. I've done a lot of research and am trying to make the right decisions the first time. I don't want to have to redo work on a billet receiver. Someone please educate me. I don't want to mess this up. This is my first build and I want it to be exactly what I want the first time.

todd.k
21 July 2011, 08:48
You read the law, serial number must be on the frame or receiver and maker info can be on the frame, receiver, or barrel.

The down side of marking the barrel is that you will need to make the barrel of any additional uppers you get for your SBR. I also don't see the resale value of your lower exceeding the $200 you loose on the tax stamp by being unmarked.

EODcrawler
21 July 2011, 08:58
Guess that makes sense. Like I said, I just want to do it right the first time. I've heard of other people putting their info on the barrel and didn't know if this was a better option.

Army Chief
21 July 2011, 18:00
Just to be manifestly clear, engraving the barrel IS an option; however, it will mean that every NFA length barrel used with the weapon must be marked IAW the law. If you're planning on only using one or two barrel/upper assemblies, this can actually make a great deal of sense if for some reason you don't wish to mark the lower.

One reason you might want to go this route is if you ever decided to go back to a 16" upper and remove the rifle from the NFA registry. Marking the barrel can actually afford greater flexibility for a non-factory SBR, but as stated, you're effectively committing yourself to the engraving process for every NFA-length barrel you own/use. Most guys find it far simpler to just mark the lower and be done with it, but some do prefer the lower key (and less well-known) alternate method of marking the barrel.

Personally, when I SBR my SCAR 16s, I will very likely mark the barrel (only), simply because I don't want to permanently mark the receiver and I don't plan on changing barrels out very often (if ever). Different methods -- both legal -- for different desired end states. It just depends upon what you wish to do with the weapon long-term.

AC

EODcrawler
21 July 2011, 22:55
I do plan on eventually using multiple uppers. Two SBRs, one 5.56 and one 300 BLK, and one longer barrel, maybe 16"-18". Which is why I wanted to find out more information on this. If I can find a way to only use one lower for all three I'd be happier. I guess I need to look more long term and see what will be best. Thanks AC.

TripleBravo
22 July 2011, 03:27
Just to be manifestly clear, engraving the barrel IS an option; however, it will mean that every NFA length barrel used with the weapon must be marked IAW the law. If you're planning on only using one or two barrel/upper assemblies, this can actually make a great deal of sense if for some reason you don't wish to mark the lower.

One reason you might want to go this route is if you ever decided to go back to a 16" upper and remove the rifle from the NFA registry. Marking the barrel can actually afford greater flexibility for a non-factory SBR, but as stated, you're effectively committing yourself to the engraving process for every NFA-length barrel you own/use. Most guys find it far simpler to just mark the lower and be done with it, but some do prefer the lower key (and less well-known) alternate method of marking the barrel.

Personally, when I SBR my SCAR 16s, I will very likely mark the barrel (only), simply because I don't want to permanently mark the receiver and I don't plan on changing barrels out very often (if ever). Different methods -- both legal -- for different desired end states. It just depends upon what you wish to do with the weapon long-term.

AC

I stand corrected. Thanks AC and Todd K. Sorry for adding any confusion if I did so.

Army Chief
22 July 2011, 03:55
I can probably count on one hand the number of guys that I've seen go with barrel engraving, so it would be quite natural to conclude that the receiver method was THE way, as opposed to A way. The fact is that it just takes a lot less effort to insure compliance with a marked receiver, and even if one were to opt for the barrel approach, you've still got to deal with finding the right shop to do it in a way that meets the legal size and depth requirements, remains visible when the gun is in an operable configuration (you can't bury it under double heat-shielded handguards and expect to be OK), and doesn't look like something attempted deep into a six-pack with an industrial-strength Dremel.

Bottom line? If you want to engrave the barrel, and are justifiably insistent upon a good result, it will take a bit more effort to find the right shop to to the engraving, and you'll be using them a bit more often, but there is no reason this wouldn't be an option.

AC

EODcrawler
22 July 2011, 06:03
I live in East Texas so Ident in Dallas would be my first choice. I know a lot of people use them for engraving their lowers. I'm going to shoot them an email and see if they also engrave barrels. Engraving the barrels is probably the route that I'm going to take since I only plan on having two SBR uppers. I know that the engraving has to be visible all the time, so I know that I'm going to have to completely build the upper and find through the forearm where it would be most visible. I'm going to be using the Spike's SAR / BAR so I don't foresee visibility being an issue. Thank you all for your comments and helping me figure this out.

Eric

2ATA
22 July 2011, 08:47
As an observation...

I would think the marked receiver is the simplest way to accomplish the task. My question would be, if one detaches the marked barrel upper from the unmarked lower, how is the registered lower remaining compliant?

Marking the barrel would make sense on something like an SBR Remy 700 or similar where the barrel is more firmly mated to the receiver.

Army Chief
22 July 2011, 15:26
I was confused about this for years myself, but although it is a subtle distinction, in the eyes of the law if a non-NFA upper is installed on an SBR-registered lower, the resulting weapon is not an SBR -- even though the lower is still on the registry. (It's not like a machinegun where once it is on the registry, it is "always" a machinegun.) It's true that it would still be on the books as such, and that distinction does enable you to reinstall the NFA-length upper, but this is a case where the actual configuration of the weapon actually trumps the registry action.

This is the only such case to my knowledge, but the overriding point is that, since the sub-16" barrel is what "makes" the weapon an SBR, as long as the engraving is present IAW the law whenever that barrel is installed, the statutory requirements have been met. Barrel engraving accomplishes this, which is why it remains a viable option, even on a modular weapon. Was the law originally written with modularity in mind? Not likely; but again, BATFE has not seen fit to redefine the terms where SBRs are concerned, so the AR ends up as something of an exception to the rule.

AC

Ryo
28 September 2011, 23:41
Though you could mark the barrel.. but why would you? Barrels would eventually wear out and need to be replaced. So if your barrel is at it's life end, you need to restamp a different barrel.

Fixit69
2 October 2011, 07:41
It looks like your going to spend more with engraving the barrel. But, just to clear it up for me...

If you mark the lower, can you swap to a different length (still under 16") barrel and still be legal, or do you have to specify the length and stay with it (unless going 16" and over) when you apply for a stamp?

I'm about to sbr a rifle and I would like to know. It could star costing a lot if I want to start experimenting.

VLODPG
2 October 2011, 17:21
When I 1st started out shooting AR type rifles, I thought I would get one lower & multiple uppers & swap them around.

Well, thats not it worked out. I have more AR's that I can possibly use! It is a disease I tell you!

Since I am not playing musical barrels, I have my engraver do the underside of the barrel & also add the SN of the lower.

It looks better & if I ever take a lower off the registery, I can still sell it for top dollar in my ban state.

The cost of my engraver charges $0.50 a letter/$20 minimum is not going to break the bank!

todd.k
3 October 2011, 08:30
If you mark the lower, can you swap to a different length (still under 16") barrel and still be legal, or do you have to specify the length and stay with it (unless going 16" and over) when you apply for a stamp?
You can put any barrel length you want on your SBR. If it is a permanent modification (you sell the barrel it was registered with) the ATF requests that you notify them of the change.

Fixit69
4 October 2011, 07:34
Thanks todd k, that clears it up.