Rainier Arms Evolution Rail Discussion [Archive]

rob_s

27 July 2011, 04:59

Rainier just sent me one of these too. Ironically, I don't have anything with a stock barrel nut I can install it on right now! I actually have to go backwards to go forwards.

I'm going to install it on my HD gun which is an 11.5" 6933 that wears an Ops 15 can, which should nest down inside the Rainier tube pretty well. I already slid the tube over the can and there is just ever so slight of a gap around the can so we'll see how it works out.

tac40

27 July 2011, 14:03

cool looking unit, nice set up.

5pins

28 July 2011, 19:43

Rainier just sent me one of these too. Ironically, I don't have anything with a stock barrel nut I can install it on right now!

Send it to me I have one.[:D]

Aragorn

31 July 2011, 10:00

I'd like to know how well the heat sinking barrel nut works. I love the feel of tubular rail/forends, but I've always had an issue with the heat transfer. I really don't need that much room on my rails for mounting accouterments as all I really use is a flashlight, foregrip and rail covers, but I still gravitate towards full quad rails because I can use rail covers to protect my hands from the heat. I've seen places where people have used these tubular forends and dumped two or three mags in quick succession and mentioned not feeling any heat transfer. Maybe so, but after you spend a whole afternoon outside working with high round counts, or even just lower spread out round counts, things get too hot to handle without something more significant than ladder panels. I realize I could use gloves, but I'm living in what is right now the second hottest city in the U.S., going on 40 days of over 100° F and wearing gloves is not something I really care to do. I could just add rail sections to a tubular forend and add some panels just to the area where I grip, but then I'm pretty much losing the main benefit of system. Also at that point I doubt I'm saving much weight over a full quad rail either.

This pretty much brings me full circle to "How well does the heat sink work?" Does it keep heat down to a manageable level? Or simply mitigate it slightly? Or would I be better off simply sucking it up and buying a glove or sticking to quad rails?

TripleBravo

31 July 2011, 11:03

Aragorn....my goal over the next few weeks is to answer that exact question. I'll keep you posted!

rob_s

31 July 2011, 17:36

Aragorn, I encountered this exact issue this weekend. For the past 2.5 years I've been wearing gloves when running carbine but this past Saturday I was shooting with a Vtac rail and didn't have my gloves. Two mags in on a ten-round drill and the handguard was too hot to hold with a bare hand.

Interested to see if this Rainier tube works better.

Aragorn

31 July 2011, 19:28

Aragorn....my goal over the next few weeks is to answer that exact question. I'll keep you posted!

Awesome! I understand how pulling heat away from the throat is helpful for maximizing barrel life, but being able to shoot it barehanded would rock!

5pins

1 August 2011, 18:15

I was under the impression the heat sink would pull heat from the barrel and into the handguard making it hotter. I’m I wrong on this rail?

rob_s

2 August 2011, 11:34

Decided what I'm going to do with mine...

I have a Colt 6520 that I converted to a flattop and installed a DD 9.0 rail on over a shaved FSB years ago. I'm going to pull that DD 9.0 off, replace the barrel nut with an OEM nut, and install the Rainier tube over that. Also going to mate the upper to an AXTS lower I have coming in and knock out two T&Es with one rifle.

Now if only I hadn't left my vice on the workbench at the old house...

d90king

3 August 2011, 14:04

Wow! That is a fantastic looking tube! It looks like it is roughly the same diameter as the VTAC but with better thought out options to add rail pieces. Very nicely thought out! How does the weight compare to its Troy counterparts?

Great write up.

rob_s

3 August 2011, 18:13

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ&output=html

d90king

5 August 2011, 05:39

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ&output=html

Should have known that there was a "chart" for that. Nice work on that.

Aragorn

6 August 2011, 13:25

Anyone got a measurement on the 3 to 9 o'clock width with rails installed?

Aragorn

29 August 2011, 15:53

Any update on this?

TripleBravo

29 August 2011, 23:04

Aragorn...I'm scheduled to get some range time with it this Friday. I'll post an update ASAP!

Aragorn

30 August 2011, 13:54

Roger that!

neo9710

3 September 2011, 09:01

And on standby for the review!!

Eric

4 September 2011, 23:40

[:D]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/Rainier%20Arms/IMG_15121.jpg

TripleBravo

5 September 2011, 21:34

Be just a little more patient with me. I'll have an update posted soon!

TripleBravo

27 September 2011, 20:54

I finally found some time this past Monday to get up to the range for some well overdue practice. I used the time to multitask by giving the Rainier Arms Evolution rail from Samson its first real workout. The primary goal was to gauge the effectiveness of the heat sink that surrounds the barrel nut. Secondarily, I thought I’d compare it with a 15 inch Troy TRX Extreme railed upper I have. Both uppers were built using a 16 inch 1:8 twist mid-length gas Ionbonded stainless steel barrel.

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww189/wjt1169/Rainier%20Arms%20Evolution%20Rail/After-Range-Test-items-01-1024.jpg

I shot without gloves all day, and worked mainly on reloads and transition drills. At no point did the EVO rail become so hot that I noticed any discomfort. I did start to become aware of heat on my thumb as it rested on the top rail, but the obvious source of this was the gas block. In this configuration, my thumb rests almost directly over the top of the micro gas block under the rail.

When I switched to the Troy TRX Extreme upper, I expected a notable difference. I have to say that in the end, I found the TRX Extreme just as comfortable to shoot. Perhaps it was because of Troy’s proprietary barrel nut or because this was a 15 inch rail and therefore has more than two additional inches of surface area to dissipate the heat…I dunno. In my completely unscientific testing, both setups worked well.

Since the subject of this thread is the Evolution rail, I’ll set the comparison to the TRX Extreme aside for now, and say that the EVO has performed as advertised. I have to say that it’s also becoming more difficult to remain objective while evaluating the EVO rail, because this set up is quickly becoming my favorite.

Aragorn

28 September 2011, 07:26

Oh hell... I'm in trouble now!

For the sake of curiosity, why do you prefer the EVO to the TRX?

uspopo

28 September 2011, 09:21

I got this baby coming for LWRC M6A2 upper..that is one hot rail system. Thanks for the review.

Stan

rob_s

28 September 2011, 10:56

I have one of these tubes also and have been using it on my 9mm AR with can nested inside. I'm really liking it.

Interesting that there are now (at least) three tubes out there with a similar overall design of having only one fixed rail section at 12 o'clock, and noting their OD dimensions.

Troy/VTAC 1.74" OD
Daniel Defense 1.76" OD
Rainer/Samson 1.80" OD

also interesting to compare back to the old-school of the JP which had a 2.00" OD, and the APEX which has a 1.88" OD

More than anything else I think that OD size is going to be the primary factor in what people prefer in terms of shooting, and ID will be a secondary concern for those looking to next suppressors inside them. For reference, most 5.56 cans have a 1.50" OD.

TripleBravo

28 September 2011, 20:21

Oh hell... I'm in trouble now!

For the sake of curiosity, why do you prefer the EVO to the TRX?

Aragon, here is a quick list of points just off the top of my head:

- The Rainier Arms version of the Evolution rail comes with exactly the add on rail sections I need -- A QD socket, a 2 inch rail, and a 4 inch rail. (The Troy comes with two 2 inch rails, and one 4 inch rail. I have a QD socket on the Troy, but it’s a $20 part made by Noveske.)
- The EVO has an anti rotation tab on both sides of the upper receiver. (The Troy only has it on one side because its designed installation does not make it possible to have one on both sides.)
- The EVO rail works with a standard barrel nut. (The Troy does come with a wrench for its proprietary barrel nut -- which is a huge plus over some other rails with proprietary nut designs.)

Some of these reasons are particular to me and you might find they are not as important to you. I still like the Troy TRX Extreme rail series and I’ve used them on several builds in the past. I’ll probably still use them. However, I think I like this EVO rail just a little more.

TripleBravo

28 September 2011, 20:26

I got this baby coming for LWRC M6A2 upper..that is one hot rail system. Thanks for the review.

Stan

Did you ensure that the piston system will fit under this rail? I'm not saying that it won't, but that is often a concern for a piston gun...and it's also something I did not look into for my review.

uspopo

29 September 2011, 06:44

Hatter

29 September 2011, 07:33

From what I've seen the Samson rails have a cutout for the piston systems. These are the EVO EX systems... not the standard full length EVO rails. I have not see the LWRCI forums but I'd be curious to know.

uspopo

29 September 2011, 09:10

Here is a link to the modded LWRC/Samson rifles:
http://forum.lwrci.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10051

If mods feel that it is inappropriate please delete..

Stan

Aragorn

29 September 2011, 09:31

Aragon, here is a quick list of points just off the top of my head:

- The Rainier Arms version of the Evolution rail comes with exactly the add on rail sections I need -- A QD socket, a 2 inch rail, and a 4 inch rail. (The Troy comes with two 2 inch rails, and one 4 inch rail. I have a QD socket on the Troy, but it’s a $20 part made by Noveske.)
- The EVO has an anti rotation tab on both sides of the upper receiver. (The Troy only has it on one side because its designed installation does not make it possible to have one on both sides.)
- The EVO rail works with a standard barrel nut. (The Troy does come with a wrench for its proprietary barrel nut -- which is a huge plus over some other rails with proprietary nut designs.)

Some of these reasons are particular to me and you might find they are not as important to you. I still like the Troy TRX Extreme rail series and I’ve used them on several builds in the past. I’ll probably still use them. However, I think I like this EVO rail just a little more.

Thanks B3. My plans for my next build have changed but I'm still up in the air on rails. Originally I was going to build a 14.5", but have since decided to enter the world of NFA and make a 300 BLK SBR for HD. The 14.5" just didn't make as much sense sitting right beside my 16" GP rifle.

TripleBravo

29 September 2011, 13:34

Triple Bravo, on the LWRCI forums there has been a handful of M6A2 uppers retrofitted with the Samson EVO and a couple with the Rainier/Samson EVO variant with no piston clearance issues so this rail is good to go on the LWRC with no mods but a straight drop in fit. I will post a few pics when I get a chance as it should be arriving today.

Stan

Sounds like you did your research first. I just wanted to make sure you were thinking about it, since I didn't have the answer myself. Post up some pics when you get it done, and let us know your impressions of the EVO rail.

brit

29 September 2011, 16:29

I've been rail shopping for a couple weeks and I'm very happy I found this review.

Triple Bravo, do you think I'd be able to get away with chopping the FSB on my 16" without having to remove it for the rail install?

Eric

29 September 2011, 18:03

Chopping/contouring the front sight assembly is indeed a good option. Just remember that once you alter it, you're stuck with it. A new assembly will not drop into place, since they are drilled specific to the barrel they are installed on.

When I picked up my Evolution rail, my first plan was to take that route. However, a new barrel that I had been looking at became available from back-order and I ended up with a gas block.

brit

29 September 2011, 21:40

Thanks Eric!

uspopo

30 September 2011, 15:37

I finally had a chance to install the rail on my LWRCi M6A2 upper (KAC lower) this morning and snap a couple of quick and dirty pics. As expected the installation was a straight drop-in fit over the existing piston system with no clearance issues. Initial impressions..Love the smaller diameter tube which allowed my medium sized hands to handle and manipulate the rifle with ease. Fit, finish and quality of the Rainier/Samson tube was excellent as usual and while I didn't have a weight scale handy to compare the weight to the OEM rail, the EVO felt lighter but maybe because all that skeletonized aluminum was spread across 12.xx" of space as opposed to the 9" of picatinny aluminum rails on the OEM unit. I am very happy with this setup and can't wait to put some rounds downrange with this new setup. Hope to get my Laser Devices DBAL-i2 soon and mount it on the rifle and do some night shooting with my PVS-14....

Stan

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/uspopo/toys/lwrcevokac01.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/uspopo/toys/lwrcevokac02.jpg

CarlosDJackal

6 October 2011, 10:54

I have one of these installed on my LWRCI PSD (8.5" bbl) and just put the Ranier Arms 12.37" model on an LWRC M6A2 with the 14.7" bbl and Permanently Attached FH. Samson did a great hob of designing this produce because you can install it without having to cut off your barrel nut and because they cut a relief for piston guns.

I just wish there was a way I can use one of these for models that had "A" framed FSBs. Installation and removal is relatively painless (NOTE: I found that using a rubber mallet helps a lot).

uspopo

13 November 2011, 09:59

Put 300rds thru my LWRC last weekend with no loosening or zeroing issues of the EVO rail, just a little carbon on my support hand from the front gas block venting (no heat or burns on my hand). I am very happy with this setup..

Stan

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/uspopo/stanlwrc3.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/uspopo/stanlwrc1.jpg

CarlosDJackal

14 November 2011, 12:04

I installed the (Samson) factory standard on my LWRCI PSD upper and the Rainier Arms version on my 14.7" LWRCI M6A2 upper (w/PA FH) and have run thousands of rounds through each one. My experiences have been the same as above.

I wish Samson would make a top removable version so that I can retrofit my 12.7" LWRC M6A3 upper with this to make it more manageable.

uspopo

14 December 2011, 04:10

Another weekend with Rainier/Samson LWRC...

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa10/uspopo/stan01.jpg

neo9710

18 February 2012, 16:00

Any more impressions on the EVO rail since you guys have had it for a while? Im actually considering switching to this one since its a smaller diameter..

TripleBravo

19 February 2012, 02:18

Any more impressions on the EVO rail since you guys have had it for a while? Im actually considering switching to this one since its a smaller diameter..

I still really like it. This build (shown in all the photos) is still my favorite to shoot. The RUC from Rainier Arms is a similar configuration and seems like the perfect set up to me.

Eric

19 February 2012, 16:51

The rail was simple to install and I have no complaints. I appreciate that the rail sections and QD are included. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/Rainier%20Arms/IMG_14621.jpg

hikeeba

9 March 2012, 13:05

Any more impressions on the EVO rail since you guys have had it for a while? Im actually considering switching to this one since its a smaller diameter..

I recently installed two fo the 12" handguards; one on a new upper assembly, and one that replaced a different FF handguard. At this point i have little trigger time with the new build, and no trigger time with the swap, so I can't really attest to their durability/stability/whateverotherbility. I will say that they both installed very easily, and they seem very solid. Like Eric, I like that they included a QD swivel socket. I installed the swivel sockets right away, whereas my accessory rail sections are still in their packaging.

Regarding the swapped handguard - I originally purchased a Troy 13" TRX Extreme for that rifle, but found it barely cleared the Daniel Defense low profile clamp on gas block once the hg was installed. Clearance was so minimal that just setting the hg on a rest caused it to contact the gas block. I didn't have a different gas block on hand, so the 2nd Evo I planned to save for a rainy day project was put into service. The Evo has a larger inner diameter compared to the Troy, and it allowed plenty of clearance for the gas block. I suppose it would behoove me to obtain a Troy lo-pro set screw gas block to toss in the box with the TRX Extreme for said rainy day project.

neo9710

16 April 2012, 13:01

For those who are possibly interested in buying this rail. Rainier Arms just got them back in stock. Im about to take the plunge and order it..

hikeeba

26 April 2012, 08:27

Take the plunge. Even if it is out of stock, it is worth waiting for.

Here are mine:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b349/_hikeeba_/Hobby%20Stuff%203/bldz2.jpg

neo9710

26 April 2012, 18:50

They ran out pretty quick...I didnt move fast enough and looks like they sold out..Ill have to wait for the next batch...

markymark423

30 April 2012, 11:42

I am almost certain I am going to purchase one when they are back in stock...but, those that have experience with these, would you suggest the 12" or 11" version for a 16" barrel with midlength gas system?

markymark423

3 May 2012, 16:33

welp the 12" is back in stock, so that made my decision easy....for those who want it, ya better hurry.

InF1uxx

11 June 2012, 11:06

Sorry about the bump, but I just want to throw in my experience with this rail so far.

First off I am using a rifle very similar to the Rainier Arms 14.5" RUC which also features this rail.

The installation of this rail was mostly painless, i needed to remove the two screws and pry apart the gap to allow the rail to slide over the thermal bushings but other than that i had no issues with it and took less than 5 minuets to install fully.After installing the rail i placed an AFG2 near the front of the rifle and extending the stock all of the way i noticed that the rifle was very well balanced, the balance was in the center of the mag well. The rifle feels better in hand than one with a quad rail in my opinion due to the smooth sides and the weight savings. The rail does not move during firing or when i physically try to move it around by had removing any doubt i had in the mounting system (there was some worry). One thing i will say though is that you should put some blue Loctite on the screws to make sure it holds, after 200 rounds the rial loosened, not enough to just fall off but with some force could be manipulated. I solved this with some nail polish I stole from my girlfriend and it is holding well now.

Overall I very much like this rail and would recommend it especially at this price point.

Horrible & fuzzy picture of my rifle taken with my phone. (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B9zmH6Jm3_jNSjBFdlAyUklVZ1E)

CMK12

8 August 2012, 17:10

Just received my CE16 with this rail on board. Coming from DD rails this Rainier/Samson rail is certainly a departure in terms of feel. Fed-Ex dropped it off today so I have not shot it but from a few hours of fondling:

1. It's narrow profile allows a more positive purchase on the rifle compared the the DD 12" FSP.

2. Certainly feels lighter than the DD, but I haven't weighed them. ETA: Weighed a DDM4 upper with 12" FSP rail and the new CE16, 5oz difference between the 2 uppers with the DD being heavier.

3. It's thinner than I thought it would be. Where as the DD feels as if it would break before it bent, based on my ever-so-scientific "feel analysis", I wonder how this rail would respond under extreme impact or force.

4. This upper does not line up perfect with the rail. It's offset by a hair. May or may-not matter, but it's worth mentioning. This could be an issue of the torque application on the screws of the rail or another reason entirely.

I'll have more when I get a chance to shoot it.

While I wish Rainier would not use Fed-Ex, as every package I ever get from the white truck looks like it tossed out of the airplane when it flew over, Rainier's packaging of the upper was impressive. Perhaps they know about Fed-Ex. The box was chewed up pretty bad and I was fearful of what awaited me inside, but they packaged it better than my flat screen, mac computers and iphone ever were. Well done.

InF1uxx

13 August 2012, 21:11

[QUOTE=CMK12;37231
3. It's thinner than I thought it would be. Where as the DD feels as if it would break before it bent, based on my ever-so-scientific "feel analysis", I wonder how this rail would respond under extreme impact or force.
[/QUOTE]

From what I learned in metals the T6 aluminum that the rail is made of can be bent to 3x its thickness without snapping, so in other words unless you bend the rail a substantial amount it will not break, only bend, and if the rail did in fact snap, the rifle i assume would be unsafe to fire because many other parts of the rifle are made of the same material.

So i don't think you have anything to worry about with this rail ;)