Another new guy... first AR advice

[wipate]

Hey all,

I've recently gotten the itch and am looking to purchase my first AR. I don't have any experience with ARs so I've spent the last few weeks browsing various forums and websites trying to learn as much as I can. I think I've got a fairly good idea of what I want, but being new to it all want some advice before making a final decision and pulling the trigger (maybe a little pun intended) on a purchase.

WEVO seems to be one of the few forums where members stay on point and generally seem to want to provide some real tangible advice to us new guys without causing a lot of drama. I like straight-to-the-point kind of advice and you guys seem extremely knowledgable and professional. Also, I had a blast reading the 'explain your AR layout' thread... awesome stuff!

I don't want to go overboard on my first build but don't want to cut any corners. I want something that is durable and reliable that will last me as this is the only rifle I will have for some time. I'm also trying to stay simple but want a system that I can add to as I gain more experience and find out what works best for me. I don't think I'm ready for a full build up but would like to get a completed upper and lower that I can mate together and avoid the 11% FTE tax.

Below are my notes on what I want along with a build I did on G&R tactical.com so you guys can have a general idea of what I'm thinking. I like how G&R Tactical lets you customize your upper and lower exactly the way you want it. Don't know if others do this as well, theirs was just the most straight forward to me and several people recommended them.

Once again I'm eager to learn and would appreciate any suggestions, recommendations, or advice you may be able to give. Thanks guys.

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General Info
No Mil or LEO experience
Mostly handgun experience (a few formal handgun courses)
I plan on taking some carbine courses in the future
~$2k budget for everything (but less is always good)

AR Purpose
I'm going for a general purpose rifle
Trying to stay true to the KISS principle
Primary use: home defense/ SHTF
Secondary: recreational range rifle/ training classes
I think 300 yd range is realistic for this kind of GP platform

Type
I'm leaning towards BCM. They seem to be the best mix of quality, price, and durability/reliability. I've yet to find a bad review of them and they have a lifetime warranty if I'm not mistaken. From what I've read the 16" Mid Length gas system seems to be the recommended route on a general purpose rifle. Also most of the accessories I've chosen are Magpul, they seem to make tough no-nonsense equipment that just works. Once again I'm open to any and all suggestions.

My spec build on G&R Tactical
Lower:
BCM Standard Lower $340
Magpul MOE Grip $19
Magpul CTR Stock $90
Magpul ASAP Receiver Plate $40
Factory/USGI Trigger
Total $489

Upper:
BCM 16" Mid Length (Gov't Profile) $399
Magpul MOE Mid Length Handguard $32
-(I think the handguard is where I've flip-flopped the most. I really don't think that I need a rail system as a mostly recreational shooter and I think that that money could be better used in other areas: maybe optics. I actually like the look of the MOE handguard and it will allow me to mount everything I would really ever need: sling attachment point, flashlight, Magpul AFG)
BCM M16 Bolt Carrier Group $139
BCM MOD4 Charging Handle $42
Standard A2 Flash Suppressor
Total $612

Accessories/Misc
10 x Magpul 30 rd 5.56 PMAGs
Magpul MBUS Gen2
Magpul BAD (don't know if I need it)
Magpul MS2 sling
OCP Sling Mount-N-Slot (forward sling attachment point that mounts directly to MOE handguard without rails)
Magpul AFG? (Not sure since I don't have shooting experience and don't know what works for me yet)
Flashlight (Eventually, not too concerned with it on initial build unless I can catch a deal/ you guys think its important)
Optics (Need advice here. I like Aimpoint CompM4s but realize its top-of-the-line/expensive and don't want to go overboard if something less expensive will serve me better)

Please let me know if I've left something out. Thanks again guys.

[rob_s]

Sounds like your head is in the right place with statements like "Not sure since I don't have shooting experience and don't know what works for me yet". I'd personally skip the BAD, AFG, and I can't stand the MS2 sling so I'd skip that and the ASAP plate. Not sure if G&R has it as an option or not but the Noveske receiver endplate is a good option for trying out sling attachments at that location. I prefer the Blue Force Gear Vickers Combat Applications Sling (BFG VCAS) and if you get the Mount-N-Slot QD attachment point you can install it in the MOE with a 1/2" drill.

On the optics side, while the M4 is a GREAT optic, I think it's probably overboard for what most shooters need. I think the Aimpoint PRO at ~$400 with mount is a much better option.

[TehLlama]

BCM is the right choice if you already like it
Start looking into a simple Surefire G2-LED for the weaponlight, and probably an IWC MOE Mount for it - simplest top end weaponlight for a setup like that.
Aimpoint PRO is the best value running for a new optic, if you like the M4S the PRO is worth a look. A used CompML3/M3 would work too. I have an M4S, but a PRO does the same things I use it for.


I'd consider getting the Gunfighter 5 CH (lowest profile), but again that's another solid choice, I have and use two 4's in addition to my 5's.
The BAD can be added down the road, as can the AFG. The DD/Noveske QD endplate, ASAP, or IKH SLAP are all fine aftermarket ones, but odds are with a KISS setup you'll be best off using a rear stock and back handguard mounted 2-pt sling (most flexible), and I will echo the BFG VCAS or VCAS Victory - great slings, I don't use any other 2pt. The Noveske endplate would be my pick if you want to run a convertible 1/2pt.


If 300yd effective, and reliable high effective up close is what you wanted, then you're pretty much there with all that. G&R is GTG, and has the second best price on the PRO I've seen right now, not to mention having BCM items in stock as much as anybody BCUSA. If the upper happens to be in stock direct from BravoCompany, that little bit extra will be more than cancelled by the 11%, just a consideration.


...eta I really double tapped a lot of what Rob was typing while I was... but it's good info.

[Eric]

It looks like your list is reasonable, unlike many of the folks who either want the cheapest mystery parts available, or just want to spend as much as possible, but they don't know why.

I too would pass on the BAD and AFG...especially the BAD. Personal preference, but I don't see a need and there is a potential that it might create issues. Learn the basic system first. I'm indifferent to the MS2 and ASAP, but choose not to run them. The Aimpoint PRO is the best deal going in an optic right now and would appear to cover your needs. There are a lot of good options for lights right now. Today I set up a mid-length MOE handguard with Magpul rail section that allows me to mount a Streamlight TLR 1s.

[wipate]

If the upper happens to be in stock direct from BravoCompany, that little bit extra will be more than cancelled by the 11%, just a consideration.




Sorry, I don't follow. Are you saying that if I order the upper through G&R I will have to pay the 11% tax but not if I order it direct from BCM? Thanks

[TehLlama]

Ordering the complete rifle, or both halves of the rifle, you're going to pay that 11% tax. I'm not suggesting it to deliberately avoid taxation, just an observation that when ordered from two places the FTE tax wasn't there for me.
G&R is a great place (I think the year of 2009, I spent 30% of my income there), but with an upper like the 16" Govvy Middy from BCM, it's going to be readily available there as well as other places.

[wipate]

I had to put off my first build for a little while to handle some other obligations. I'm back to the drawing board and want a few more opinions on a couple questions before I purchase. I'm still sticking with the BCM build. As far as barrels go I was curious if it would be advantageous to get the cold hammer forged barrel over the standard 16" barrel. Also I'm wondering if I should go with the lightweight profile over the gov't profile. I'm looking for a simple, effective, and hopefully lightweight rifle but don't want to sacrifice durability for minor weight savings. This will be my only rifle for some time so I want something that is going to last. Also, is the Aimpoint PRO still the best value in optics right now? I would love to get an Aimpoint Micro its just a little out of my price range.

[wipate]

Also, for the rear flip up sight would you recommend going with the Magpul MBUS 2 or upgrading to the Troy flip up rear sight? Thanks guys. I appreciate all your input.

[BobinLaConner]

Since I pretty much just went through what you are facing, I think you are doing the right thing to ask good questions from knowledgeable people on this site and looking at a quality manufacturer for your base gun. For me, I was really glad I spent the money on a better quality gun (daniel defense). I have had exactly zero problems so far and I love the reliability and accuracy.

As far as what you bolt on later, that is just the icing on the cake and you may change your mind later anyway on which sights, lights, optics and stocks or other things to add. It is tempting to bolt on too many accessories and make the gun a little heavy. My gun has the Hammer Forged barrel which seems great so far and I do have the Magpul MBUS and they work great for me so you won't go wrong with either those or the troy sights, but go look at some and see what looks best to you.

If you have a good base gun it will just run and feel right. The sting of buying the more expensive gun lasts for a week or so, but a gun that keeps having problems is no fun at all (and may fail at the worst time).
The other thing to remember is once you buy the gun, most of the accessories are easier to afford later...a BAD lever here, a trigger there, a sling. Plus you will learn what you like and don't like. And it makes it fun to continuously improve it after you have been shooting the gun a while.

But mostly don't worry, they are great guns, have fun with it.

[Aragorn]

Also, for the rear flip up sight would you recommend going with the Magpul MBUS 2 or upgrading to the Troy flip up rear sight? Thanks guys. I appreciate all your input.

If you're not using a standard front sight base I would absolutely go with the troys. The MBUS are not made to go on a railed gas block and would melt. I personally prefer the troys anyways as I find the MBUS to be somewhat chunky looking when obtaining a sight picture.

[Toyoland66]

I had to put off my first build for a little while to handle some other obligations. I'm back to the drawing board and want a few more opinions on a couple questions before I purchase. I'm still sticking with the BCM build. As far as barrels go I was curious if it would be advantageous to get the cold hammer forged barrel over the standard 16" barrel. Also I'm wondering if I should go with the lightweight profile over the gov't profile. I'm looking for a simple, effective, and hopefully lightweight rifle but don't want to sacrifice durability for minor weight savings. This will be my only rifle for some time so I want something that is going to last. Also, is the Aimpoint PRO still the best value in optics right now? I would love to get an Aimpoint Micro its just a little out of my price range.

The govt and lw profile are the same diameter under the hand guard, the advantage of the govt profile is lost on me, however i think the lw profile has a definate handling advantage. I chose the lw bfh for my upper. Bfh is up to you, it costs more and you will likely take a long time to wear out a standard barrel, but the bcm bfh barrels have a good reputation for accuracy if nothing else.

For folding rear sights I would choose either Troy or kac, you can save some money by using a fixed rear such as Troy or dd, some people advocate using a fixed rear rather than folding since it will always be ready to use if needed.

I echo what others have said about using the noveske endplate and iwc micro mount with a BFG vcas sling. Qd's are silent and can be released in an emergency if your gun gets caught on something. The ms2 doesn't have a good reputation for comfort.

The pro is probably the best value for an aim point, check G&R's package deals though on the other aim points, I think he has the best prices out there. Consider getting a blemish lower to save $79 on the cost of the lower, that combined with using a fixed rather than folding rear will pretty much pay the difference between a pro and a micro, and give you a lighter and simpler and more durable rifle.

[LPMan59]

here's my advice from a guy who was asking the same questions not too long ago.....

I would consider starting with the Colt 6920. It is the standard AR carbine and it is a good rifle. If for some reason, you decide you don't like the platform, a Colt will maintain it's value. I would learn to shoot with irons first, either with a carry handle or with a good set of BUIS. Troys seem to be the go-to brand, though cheaper options such as the Magpul MBUS will work. Get yourself some PMAGs and a case of ammo. Learn the ins and outs of the weapon and become familiar with it. As for the MS2 Sling, I might suggest trying the MS3 if you really want to stay with Magpul. Once you are good with irons, then look into optics. And there are plenty of excellent (and pricey ;) ) options out there.

Now if you are like me and want cool stuff right away, the PSA Patrol Carbine is hard to argue with in terms of price. Now PSA is new to the AR game, which is why most seem to recommend Colt and BCM which makes perfect sense and is certainly sound advice. I will say that i enjoy my PSA middy, but in case of the zombie apocalypse, I'd grab my 6920.