m4carbine.net???

[K9MAKO]

Anyone else having problems getting on m4carbine.net ? I've tried 3 different computers and no luck???

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

I have not been able to get on in 2 days I dont know what is going on

[Army Chief]

Hard down. Not sure of the cause just yet, but it's not just you.

AC

[Mr.Goodtimes]

Since M4C has been down I've gotten a lot done. Got some shelves sanded and ready for painting tomorrow.

EDIT: It also brought me over here. I forgot about this nice little corner of the interwebs. I might just have to start hanging out over here some more.

[UWone77]

Hard down. Not sure of the cause just yet, but it's not just you.

AC

AC can you get crackin on that? It's like not getting a newspaper for a few days :)

[TehLlama]

I can't complain, any day where I'm not seeing EE ads is a good one for my wallet...

[Army Chief]

AC can you get crackin on that? It's like not getting a newspaper for a few days :)

Most of my server work is actually done over here -- I'm not entirely sure where things stand on the tech side of M4C. I presume that the necessary calls have been made.

AC

[Gator]

Since M4C has been down I've gotten a lot done. Got some shelves sanded and ready for painting tomorrow.

EDIT: It also brought me over here. I forgot about this nice little corner of the interwebs. I might just have to start hanging out over here some more.
You and me both on both issues. :D I actually make it a habit to look at new threads here as well as new posts on the Explain your AR layout thread but the white text and black background gets to me after a while. It's hurting my eyes as I type. Wish there was a way to change it in my personal settings...

[tac40]

it's still down or at least very slow.

[Aaron B]

Seems M4C is back up and running, at least for me it is.

[SteveL]

I was able to get back on a little while ago on my phone, but now I can't from a desktop PC.

[Code3Patriot]

The site is up and running again for me. MacBook Air using Chrome.

[Thomas M-4]

No joy for me.
Still nothing , Using FireFox.

[Army Chief]

It's been going up and down. Word is that there was definitely a deliberate intrusion. Sites like these can definitely be targets. Here's hoping the attacks don't migrate here (or elsewhere).

AC

[Thomas M-4]

Thank you for the information Army Chief .

[Thomas M-4]

Dang I do believe they have been hacked again.
http://www.m4carbine.net/
I go to that link it just says hi[BD]

[VLODPG]

Dang I do believe they have been hacked again.
http://www.m4carbine.net/
I go to that link it just says hi[BD]

I'm getting the same thing but I fugured that it might be that Im outside the US( Poland)

I was able to get on yesterday though!

[SteveL]

I'm getting the same message. Hi.

[Thomas M-4]

They were having some issues last night. Posts not in order, search function say try again in 60,000 seconds but it cleared up .
I don't know it was running fine this morning.

[newyork]

I am getting "hi" and a white screen.

[Quiet-Matt]

Me too, just "hi"
Probably some computer hacker mall ninja got his feelings hurt when he posted a picture of his tacti-cool DPMS of some crap.

[Mr.Goodtimes]

I'm kind of guessing that it was hacked again since it says "hi." FWIW, the Daniel Defense site has been down for the past three days.

[Thomas M-4]

Weird DD is working for me. I have not been on it since last week .

[Wondering Beard]

DD isn't opening at all for me, with either Explorer or Firefox

[Army Chief]

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?765-m4carbine.net-down/page4

As stated elsewhere, M4C is obviously dealing with something much more serious this time. It is a server side problem now, and not anything user-related as far as we can tell.

AC

[Army Chief]

Looks like the problem has been resolved (again).

AC

[jbsmwd]

Still down for me, but google search engine see it. Can't load it on chrome, IE8 or Firefox4.

[silviacrazed]

I'm having issues with it on taptalk now. It loads sometimes, but about 90% of the time it doesn't.

Sent from HTC EVO using taptalk

[polydeuces]

Hi all,
What's up with M4C - appears to be down again, have been unable to get on for the past 2 days. Anyone else?
Thanks.

[Thomas M-4]

Hi all,
What's up with M4C - appears to be down again, have been unable to get on for the past 2 days. Anyone else?
Thanks.

Looks like it is being attacked again[BD]

[Norinco]

Someone really hates M4C…

[SteveL]

Hi all,
What's up with M4C - appears to be down again, have been unable to get on for the past 2 days. Anyone else?
Thanks.

Same for me.

[mtdawg169]

Some nutbag posted elsewhere that he was responsible after he got his feelings hurt.

[polydeuces]

Pretty amazing "we" (M4C) can't protect "ourselves" better than that - considering the amount of site sponsors. Perhaps not the most popular suggestion but..... maybe be a bit more selective about membership?

[mtdawg169]

Not a member to my knowledge. He posted a build on another site (reddit?) and started getting some flack about his AR. One of the posters directed him to M4C to "learn more". Shortly thereafter, M4C went down and he was boasting about it on the other site. Lesson? Don't tick off the keybangers...

[Thomas M-4]

Pretty much what mtdawg has said.

Some butt hurt script kiddy has pretty much declared war on M4C

[Boss Hogg]

Perhaps this site can pick up some of the slack.

In the last 2 years M4C has become dominated by relatively new AR shooters (Thanks Barry!) who want to argue fairly insignificant minutiae. "OMG! My barrel isn't 11595-E! It's only 4150 that shoots 2 moa groups. Worse yet, it isn't parkerized under the FSB. Is it going to blow up, or make it to the 15k round mark?"

It has great potential- as it had previously- but until people start worrying about shooting first and then wondering if their gun will malfunction.....it will be the same old tired topics. Too much discussion of technical details of gear without discussing the practical application of its use.

[rob_s]

Perhaps this site can pick up some of the slack.

In the last 2 years M4C has become dominated by relatively new AR shooters (Thanks Barry!) who want to argue fairly insignificant minutiae. "OMG! My barrel isn't 11595-E! It's only 4150 that shoots 2 moa groups. Worse yet, it isn't parkerized under the FSB. Is it going to blow up, or make it to the 15k round mark?"

It has great potential- as it had previously- but until people start worrying about shooting first and then wondering if their gun will malfunction.....it will be the same old tired topics. Too much discussion of technical details of gear without discussing the practical application of its use.

Hardware is quantifiable remotely. "what's the lightest rail system" has an actual, quantifiable, answer. "whare are my options for mounting my new Aimpoint?" has only so many answers, and the respondents can state quantifiable reasons for their opinions.

If you want to see truly ridiculously self-licking-ice-cream-cone discussions, try to talk about TTPs remotely with groups of people that may not agree. "This technique is the most accurate" and "that technique is the fastest" cannot be quantified remotely, and there's always some guy that can shoot neither fast nor accurately that poopoos it all as being "gaming" and excusing his poor performance by claiming to be "tactical".

Not to mention, cash is the grease on the wheels, and forums (including this one) exist largely to take in cash from sponsors. That overwhelmingly means gear, not training, companies with the exception of perhaps some training celebrities or video production companies.

What needs to happen on M4C is that people, including "established members" need to back up their statements. "The xyz barrel has a .061" gas port" absolutely needs to be followed with "and I know this because I measured one myself". If not, IMO, the post should be deleted. The internet is bad enough because there is no accountability, but factor in no quantification and qualification and it's hardly worth the time to post.

I stopped posting on M4 on 8/31 but still read. It's provided an interesting perspective on things.

[mtdawg169]

Rob, the only link I saw was in AR discussion on M4C. A follow up thread in GD discussing the site hacking had a little more info. I would have to search for it to find it again, if the site ever comes back up. I don't know if the guy was really responsible, but he insinuated as much in his posts on the other site.

Regarding M4C, it has been a tremendous resource over the last few years for me. However, I have learned to take some of the internet bravado with a grain of salt. My motto: "Its not personal, its the internet." They have been absolutely flooded with new shooters in the last two years, most of whom ask the same questions over and over again. I think they are doing the best job they can, considering the circumstances. It has lead to a lot more sifting through thread titles on my part. They take a lot of flack over mil-spec this and that discussions, but if people pay attention and make use of the knowledge base (search button), they can save themselves a lot of headache, time & money.

[rob_s]

Regarding M4C, it has been a tremendous resource over the last few years for me. However, I have learned to take some of the internet bravado with a grain of salt. My motto: "Its not personal, its the internet." They have been absolutely flooded with new shooters in the last two years, most of whom ask the same questions over and over again. I think they are doing the best job they can, considering the circumstances. It has lead to a lot more sifting through thread titles on my part. They take a lot of flack over mil-spec this and that discussions, but if people pay attention and make use of the knowledge base (search button), they can save themselves a lot of headache, time & money.



You are correct on all counts there. My impatience was actually focused more on the "established members" than the newbies. Being new and ignorant I have a high tolerance for, being un-intelligent (especially if coupled with arrogance beyond one's experience) I have an extremely low tolerance for regardless of how long they've been posting.

M4C needs, assuming they come back, a way of dealing with that influx. Limiting participation in GD has helped a lot.

What often happens there as well as other places is that the guy that is the expert in his limited circle of friends and who's statements go unquestioned in that environment don't know how to react when challenged, and even further break down when shown to be wrong or outside their lane, especially by people that know these things firsthand, or in far greater detail than they do.

I have been on M4C almost since the beginning. M4C has suffered also from the beginning from people's perceptions of internet forums. It is supposed to be a discussion forum where people are expected to back up their statements, unlike pretty much the entire rest of the internet. New members often have a hard time with this when they come in spouting off things that may *sound* correct but are not, or that are only based on what they read elsewhere on the internet.

More accountability for posts and a clearer explanation of expectations would help tremendously. People coming in and posting unsubstantiated crap like "Colt is owned by the UAW" and then getting upset when they are told they don't know what they are talking about is not conducive to a functional discussion forum. They also need to simply acknowledge that all sites are not for all people (basically the opposite of the "tired poor huddled masses" model of ar15.com) and allow that some people will get upset and leave, or get upset, throw a tantrum, and be shown the door. I suspect that the recent doubling of forum sponsors will prevent that last bit from happening, however.

[Fixit69]

You are correct on all counts there. My impatience was actually focused more on the "established members" than the newbies. Being new and ignorant I have a high tolerance for, being un-intelligent (especially if coupled with arrogance beyond one's experience) I have an extremely low tolerance for regardless of how long they've been posting.

M4C needs, assuming they come back, a way of dealing with that influx. Limiting participation in GD has helped a lot.

What often happens there as well as other places is that the guy that is the expert in his limited circle of friends and who's statements go unquestioned in that environment don't know how to react when challenged, and even further break down when shown to be wrong or outside their lane, especially by people that know these things firsthand, or in far greater detail than they do.

I have been on M4C almost since the beginning. M4C has suffered also from the beginning from people's perceptions of internet forums. It is supposed to be a discussion forum where people are expected to back up their statements, unlike pretty much the entire rest of the internet. New members often have a hard time with this when they come in spouting off things that may *sound* correct but are not, or that are only based on what they read elsewhere on the internet.

More accountability for posts and a clearer explanation of expectations would help tremendously. People coming in and posting unsubstantiated crap like "Colt is owned by the UAW" and then getting upset when they are told they don't know what they are talking about is not conducive to a functional discussion forum. They also need to simply acknowledge that all sites are not for all people (basically the opposite of the "tired poor huddled masses" model of ar15.com) and allow that some people will get upset and leave, or get upset, throw a tantrum, and be shown the door. I suspect that the recent doubling of forum sponsors will prevent that last bit from happening, however.

On the topic of arrogance, I realized when I joined m4c that there were more than a few colorful individuals with personality. But, I have found that most of the information I needed, not the same "I hear that/was told that/believe that", was status quo. As you said quantifiable facts are the norm. Blowhards are usually put in check, and I have thick skin. The info that I glean from the site is worth the occasional assy remark or jab, because you and others will call out the bs.

So thanks for a great site I wish I would have known years ago.

I have to admit this site is growing on me too. Same ethic seems to be here. Hey, the ignorant like my self need all the help
we can get.

[LittleLebowski]

When you get that big, you have to invest in infrastructure.

[Uglyduck]

This chatter about various forums got me thinking of what has kept me coming back to WEVO while I've been drawn away from other more populous forums.

Of all the AR forums I've frequented over the last several years WEVO is the only one I post on with any sort of consistency because the discussions are respectful and the threads usually contain good info that I can learn from. Thats not to say other forums don't provide that its just that the "volume" here is lower and so is the amount of "static". I can usually find an answer to my question using search or expect that the info I get when I start a new thread is reliable. I find the easy access to technical expertise and professional experience on WEVO to be its greatest asset and hope that remains the case as its membership grows.

Out of curiosity, what keeps other members coming back?

[sonny22]

I like M4carbine. I've learned a lot in the last 2 years, most of the time i can find what i'm looking for with the search button.

yea, you will run into some know-it-all butthole sometime, but you will do that almost anywhere.

[lamarbrog]

The reason I like this place is that most of the folks are "down to earth"... Most people here seem to just be realistic about what makes a rifle work.

Some places are just "anything goes". DPMS, RRA, Olympic, etc. are considered to be excellent rifles and 200 rounds is considered to be a thorough test firing. There's really no understanding of what makes one rifle better than another other than this "fit and finish" concept. If the parts look the same, they must be the same.

The other extreme is some places are so caught up in specs that they spend all their time focused on things that don't matter. I used to be like this- Fortunately, I saw the light. I remember arguing with someone for a long time about how LMT was not as good as Colt or BCM because they don't parkerize under the FSB. Looking back that was a really stupid thing to even be worried about- Can anyone give any quantifiable reason why it is better to have parkerizing under the FSB? I certainly can't. Maybe it is more prone to rust, but if there is a little rust under there what's it going to hurt?

That's basically it... if you phrase your questions well here you get great answers. Other places either give you a "Just get an Olympic Arms and an NC Star scope, they're the same as a Colt and an ACOG" or a "Your LMT is a second rate AR compared to my Colt, and you might as well throw away your EoTech since it isn't as good as my ACOG."

[Paulo_Santos]

One of the major problems with Internet Forums is that some people think that they can say whatever they say "because this is America". The Internet isn't America and everyone has to follow the rules set forth by the site owners. Opinions are fine as long as they are respectful and the person posting indicates they are opinions.

The other problem in some of the forums is that some people don't understand that everyone is different and they will use different gear from them for various different reasons. When someone asks for help with something, I don't give them my opinion based on what I would want, but rather what they want/what I believe is best for them, based on the info they provide. I think that is what is good about this forum and I hope it stays that way.

[brit]

I was initially drawn here by all the great reviews. Even though I have a single digit post count, I still find myself stopping by several times a day. Its a breath of fresh air here.

[wneubauer]

M4 is still down. I just got here myself, but I like it here already.

[mtdawg169]

M4C is back up!

Rob, here is the only link I could find. The OP is a complete nutbag with apparent rage issues.

linky (http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/ji95b/hello_there_gunnit_check_out_my_ar15_build/)

[polydeuces]

M4C is back up!

[/URL]

Appears to have been a freak appearance , still down where I'm at.
Meanwhile I'm starting to like this place more and more....
"Daaad...I'm in jail....and I like it here...."

[VLODPG]

M4C is back up!

Looks like as of 22:29 EST

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[mtdawg169]

Looks like she's back up and running this AM. Hopefully it will stay that way.

[Hmac]

Still down from here on and off. Given their brief ghost appearances, looks like they're still under DoS attack.

[mtdawg169]

Rats! Foiled again!

[Fixit69]

This chatter about various forums got me thinking of what has kept me coming back to WEVO while I've been drawn away from other more populous forums.

Of all the AR forums I've frequented over the last several years WEVO is the only one I post on with any sort of consistency because the discussions are respectful and the threads usually contain good info that I can learn from. Thats not to say other forums don't provide that its just that the "volume" here is lower and so is the amount of "static". I can usually find an answer to my question using search or expect that the info I get when I start a new thread is reliable. I find the easy access to technical expertise and professional experience on WEVO to be its greatest asset and hope that remains the case as its membership grows.

Out of curiosity, what keeps other members coming back?

What you just said, information. This is what I am always after. The assbag theorists that say things that range from regurgitation to downright lies make the search features of both sites invaluable to me. That and the attitude. Like to know when some hears bs they will pipe up and check them down, especially when I don't know if it's bs or not.

[jessfest]

It's been working for me as of this morning. However, I haven't been able to log in since it's gone down. I'm a fairly new member and I only really lurk so it's no big deal except I can't download attachments like the ammo data sheets.
Anyone else having problems logging in? It tells me my user name and password are incorrect.
This was on both my tapatalk app and my computer.

Tapatalked from my CS Showcase

[Mark82ndABN]

Yea, same problem. I can view the site now but can't log on. It's saying I've entered an incorrect password.


It's been working for me as of this morning. However, I haven't been able to log in since it's gone down. I'm a fairly new member and I only really lurk so it's no big deal except I can't download attachments like the ammo data sheets.
Anyone else having problems logging in? It tells me my user name and password are incorrect.
This was on both my tapatalk app and my computer.

Tapatalked from my CS Showcase

[jessfest]

Yea, same problem. I can view the site now but can't log on. It's saying I've entered an incorrect password.

I'm glad to hear it's not just me! I thought they might have decided to clean house or something...

Tapatalked from my CS Showcase

[UDT]

No problem for me.

[jessfest]

Yeah, it seems to be working fine for me now too...

Tapatalked from my CS Showcase

[Dos Cylindros]

Has not been working for me all day. It worked for a bit this morning, but it froze up and is a no go all day since.

[wneubauer]

They stated it was a DDoS attack... They are back up..

[Dos Cylindros]

They stated it was a DDoS attack... They are back up..

No they are not, three different computers and none of them work. Something is still wrong.

[Hmac]

Yup. Very wonky still. They really got taken down hard. Again.

[Ranger325]

I was GTG all day yesterday, but seems it is down again this morning.....................'return to the 34 foot tower!'

Regards,

[PD Sgt.]

I keep getting a 504 error when I try checking in.

[skd_tactical]

Yeah me either. I'm getting a "504 gateway Time-out."

SOS

[Thomas M-4]

Same here
504 gateway Time-out

[Army Chief]

It's still very much a hit-or-miss thing, and the problem with DDoS attacks is that there is only so much that you can do on the server-side without some help from "upstream." I haven't gotten the sense that M4C's server host has been able to provide much in the way of effective assistance, and as long as the attacks persist, we're probably going to be looking at on-again/off-again service for the near-term.

Sometimes it pays dividends to be a small target, though I suspect we'll deal with it at WeVo too at some point. All we can really do is to try to be ready with an effective response when it does happen, and to help to others in the community when and where we can.

AC

[Failure2Stop]

AC, if there is any way we can introduce a size 11 into the colon of the offender(s), please let me know.

[Army Chief]

The appropriate steps have been taken, and although the attacks persist, the control measures are proving effective for the most part. From this point forward, the best course of action is just to recognize that service may be sketchy at times, but we don't want to discuss it too much publicly (here or elsewhere online), since that will likely only encourage the attacker that his efforts are proving effective. In other words, M4C may be up or down, but it will probably be fine in the long run, and there just isn't a whole lot more to discuss right now.

AC

[Norinco]

M4C is working on my PC now but I can't bring it up on my phone.

[Army Chief]

You might try a cache clear and log out/in. Could be some IP filtering going on here.

AC

[Norinco]

That's what I thought. It didn't help.

[Army Chief]

The battle continues ...

AC

[Fried Chicken Blowout]

Going in on the mail.m4carbine.net seems to help. I'm not sure why, but it does.

[Fixit69]

M4C is working on my PC now but I can't bring it up on my phone.

Having same problem. Logging back into both from the beginning.

Atleast now I can get on here.

[newyork]

Its going back and forth. Its a mess. Works every other hour for me.

[TehLlama]

I'm just frustrated that advertisers are effectively losing revenue because of this crap...

[Fixit69]

I'm just frustrated that advertisers are effectively losing revenue because of this crap...

Yea, I know. But I think of it as we live in a free society, and sometimes this is the price we pay. Ain't right, and I'd like to know the person responsible. We could solve this real quick.

[rob_s]

I'm just frustrated that advertisers are effectively losing revenue because of this crap...

[:D]

[peabody]

i thinks m4carbine is getting to be a rude place to go.

[Hmac]

i thinks m4carbine is getting to be a rude place to go.

The general culture here seems to be less antagonistic, but I suspect they feel the same about Del-Ton as they do at M4C.

[Paulo_Santos]

i thinks m4carbine is getting to be a rude place to go.

It has been like that for a while. It happens to most places when they grow, unless the staff/mods really tighten up on the bullcrap. But when you tighten up on the bullcrap, you have to lock and/or delete threads and posts and guys accuse the staff/mods of censorship. Afte all this is America (actually it is the Internet, but people like to say that all the time). I personally prefer to take the no nonsense approach to keep the integrity of the site. If anyone likes the drama, there are plenty of other sites for that.

[rob_s]

i thinks m4carbine is getting to be a rude place to go.

Many people mistake bluntness for rudeness. If this is the case for you then M4C is probably also not the place for you. Some people do not like being questioned, and when they are they determine that those doing the questioning are "rude". M4C is, or was, supposed to hold posters to a higher standard. "my rifle is flawless" is a completely useless waste of a post and the time it takes to write it (some will find that statement rude as well). M4C was supposed to be above that and ask people to qualify and quantify the statement. For how many rounds? In what kind of use? At what cleaning/lubing interval? etc. Similarly "my barrel holds 1/2 MOA all day long" is an incomplete statement. Number of groups fired? Number of rounds per group? Optic used? Trigger used? Ammo used? Weather conditions? Support? Free-float?

IMO this is a true no-nonsense approach. Locking and deleting things that someone may get offended by when they are simply statements of fact or request for qualification is more in line with internut silliness.

the good news is that not all internet sites are for everyone, and there are plenty to go around. Every site has it's market, and it's devotees. Some folks may not like ar15.com but find ar15chatterbox.com to be perfect for them. Some may not like M4C and find WEVO more to their liking. Some may not like 10-8 and prefer lightfighter. The list goes on, and is interchangeable.

IMO the current problem with M4C is not rudeness, or even 'net geeks taking it down at will.

[Paulo_Santos]

Many people mistake bluntness for rudeness. If this is the case for you then M4C is probably also not the place for you. Some people do not like being questioned, and when they are they determine that those doing the questioning are "rude". M4C is, or was, supposed to hold posters to a higher standard. "my rifle is flawless" is a completely useless waste of a post and the time it takes to write it (some will find that statement rude as well). M4C was supposed to be above that and ask people to qualify and quantify the statement. For how many rounds? In what kind of use? At what cleaning/lubing interval? etc. Similarly "my barrel holds 1/2 MOA all day long" is an incomplete statement. Number of groups fired? Number of rounds per group? Optic used? Trigger used? Ammo used? Weather conditions? Support? Free-float?

IMO this is a true no-nonsense approach. Locking and deleting things that someone may get offended by when they are simply statements of fact or request for qualification is more in line with internut silliness.

the good news is that not all internet sites are for everyone, and there are plenty to go around. Every site has it's market, and it's devotees. Some folks may not like ar15.com but find ar15chatterbox.com to be perfect for them. Some may not like M4C and find WEVO more to their liking. Some may not like 10-8 and prefer lightfighter. The list goes on, and is interchangeable.

IMO the current problem with M4C is not rudeness, or even 'net geeks taking it down at will.

The problem is that most people who are blunt are rude. They have no people skills. I can give two perfect examples of two very knowledgeable guys in this industry, one who comes across as rude and arrogant and an a$$hole, while the other is very friendly and humble. If someone doesn't have the patient or the people skills, don't post or reply in threads.

And this is no way directed at you Rob.

[rob_s]

I see things through a different lens, perhaps because I am one of the people that gets accused of being arrogant and rude. I am the type that would much prefer someone get straight to the point than to beat around the bush, or give me biased answers based on industry connections. There is, however, a fine line between being blunt with fact and being blunt with opinion. Certainly people that post things like "that brand sucks" or worse taking on "and anyone that would buy one is a moron" is rude. However, at least the first part, may also be factual. Without the qualifiers of the response it's just as bad as the unqualified initial opinion.

Everyone's tolerance for rudeness is different. I dish it out, so I can also take it. and the people that read my articles, follow my site, and to some extent even the industry people that send me stuff to test, consider my style "blunt" while those that get offended by it consider it "rude".

I went and read the delton thread that I think peabody was reacting to, and there are certainly some posts there that are "rude" even by my standards. They are, IMO, indicative more of the broader problem with M4C right now than they are of a cultural problem with rudeness. The problem has always existed there, as on every internet forum, but it has gotten really, really bad of late and that is that the guy who shows up asking what rifle to buy today is brow-beating people and acting like an expert on all things AR tomorrow. This has led to an exodus of most of the more contributory members, leaving a vacuum of information and the nitwits fill the void. Signal:Noise was a point of pride there at one time, but with the reduction in signal of late, the noise appears greater even if it really just stayed the same.

[Paulo_Santos]

Here is an example of three people saying the same thing, but in different ways:

OP: What are your thoughts on BrandX Rifles?
M4Carbine Answer: They are a piece of crap. I can't believe anyone would buy that crap. Just get a BrandA and read more and post less. (Followed by 5-10 pages of arguing over the importance of parkerized FSB and all of the millspec stuff that goes along with it).

ARFCOM Answer: I heard from a friend of a friend who is an operator in Iraq and he said they suck. (Followed by 100-360 pages of arguing about everything except the topic).

WEVO Answer: I would look at other rifles. BrandX has been known to have some issues. What do you plan on using your AR for? (Followed by a few good replies).

LOL.

[rob_s]

Here is an example of three people saying the same thing, but in different ways:

OP: What are your thoughts on BrandX Rifles?
M4Carbine Answer: They are a piece of crap. I can't believe anyone would buy that crap. Just get a BrandA and read more and post less. (Followed by 5-10 pages of arguing over the importance of parkerized FSB and all of the millspec stuff that goes along with it).

ARFCOM Answer: I heard from a friend of a friend who is an operator in Iraq and he said they suck. (Followed by 100-360 pages of arguing about everything except the topic).

WEVO Answer: I would look at other rifles. BrandX has been known to have some issues. What do you plan on using your AR for? (Followed by a few good replies).

LOL.

most of that is relative more to the number of members than anything else. newbie-jumping was lesser when M4C was newer and had fewer members. I agree that some of the more antagonistic responses are out of line, and I actually started reporting them using the "report post" button. I *try* not to reply that way, but many new posters take my "what do you want to do with it and how much do you want to spend" posts as almost in the same vein.

and what you refer to is also often the exact same people I was describing above. Today's newbie is tomorrow's expert.

[Paulo_Santos]

Today's newbie is tomorrow's expert.

LOL. You aren't kidding about this statement. That is the most disturbing part because these guys are regurgitating things without actually even trying it out for themselves.

[Army Chief]

My tolerance for disagreement -- here or there -- is extremely broad, but my tolerance for incivility is just about nil.

That has admittedly made for some interesting days of late on a site that has experienced as much growth as M4C.

The Del-Ton thread is a good example of what happens when forum members decide to pile on, rather than mentor.

These kinds of skirmishes usually get the right kind of staff attention in the end, but it's pretty tough to catch them all.

AC

[Uglyduck]

LOL. You aren't kidding about this statement. That is the most disturbing part because these guys are regurgitating things without actually even trying it out for themselves.

Funny how you'll find a better answer on the range than the internet

[Uglyduck]

mentor

Maybe this is the difference between WEVO and other forums ( <-generalized )

[John Hwang]

M4C is a great resource & online community for the AR15 enthusiast and they serve our community well. I don't frequent the site as much as I'd like to but we're fortunate to call Grant & M4C industry friends. We don't have nearly the traffic they face so it's a lot easier to monitor our discussion sections. It's one of the benefits of being more of a resource oriented site vs a discussion based site. We've also stressed the importance of treating each shooter, new or old with respect. I'm so very thankful and proud to have our staff as they are 1st class and do an amazing job of treating our members as they would like to be treated.

[mtdawg169]

Today's newbie is tomorrow's expert.

You aren't kidding. It seems like talking down to people has almost become a sport on M4C as of late. The thing that makes you want to scream is the guy who has been on the board for a few months and practically overnight goes from "should I buy DI or piston?" to "you're an idiot,your gun is crap, use the search button & read more, post less... idiot". It is almost as if people feel they have somehow earned the right to lambaste the newbs as a right of passage or to make up for the beating they took when they first arrived on the forum. M4C is still a tremendous resource & where I spend most of my time when I'm on the net, but as Rob said, the signal:noise isn't what it used to be. I don't envy the position the Mods like AC are in.

[rob_s]

There's a thread right now over there on which MK18 to buy (I guess all 10.x" guns are now "MK18"s like all precision ARs are now "SPR"s and 10 years ago all carbines were "M4"s) that reminded me of something. For every rude response, there are also a lot of arrogantly stupid questions. This is one of those things that is a function of overall size of the site. You are more likely to get dumbass questions, and follow-up questions, with more new people flocking in daily, which in turn ups the aggravation level of the established members, and ups the opportunities to jump their shit, which in turn is more likely to lead to a dogpile. Especially if the dogpile is started by a moderator or staff member.

[Gator]

Is it just me or are other folks still having trouble accessing the site? My access is limited in that I can browse for about 5 minutes or so and then it just stalls. Come back about half an hour later and does the whole thing all over again. Cant post either.

[Fixit69]

Yes it's just you.

No, I'm kidding. I'm getting the same thing.

Whats going on I don't know, but I need a brake anyway.

See posts above. To much... stuff. But the info is there in spades. Wish I would have had it years ago. This site is great too.

[Hmac]

Is it just me or are other folks still having trouble accessing the site? My access is limited in that I can browse for about 5 minutes or so and then it just stalls. Come back about half an hour later and does the whole thing all over again. Cant post either.

I'm getting the same problem intermittently on my desktop, but the site is pretty much unusable with my iPad anymore, even from the same IP address.

[uspopo]

Same here, the site loads like molasses...Great resource site but the dogpiling is getting ridiculous..

[UDT]

No problems at all for me.

[Striker071]

I would just like to say the reason I come here is the quality and supportive answers on this site. ar15.com can get a little crazy and I have no experience at M4C

[KStang986]

The information on M4C is pretty good. However, the site does have a hierarchy, and if you disagree with an SME who calls you "stupid" the mods side with the SME then close the post.

Like others have said, too much dogpiling, not enough mentorship, and not enough quality posts. For example, a SME will say, "This weapon-system is stupid and so are you." That's it. In the body of the post. I had thought that M4C was all about promoting professionality, but it doesn't seem like the case. There's also a bit of dogma with the AR-15 system, and they're fairly resistant to new ideas (ZOMG BAD LEVER SUCKS).

You also have a lot of people who cite 'carbine classes' as the end-all, be-all of weapon testing. Although many shoot-schools use the weapon rigorously, I can say first hand in the military that I have carried a weapon a lot in dirty environments, but shot the gun very little. The emphasis on "as long as you clean it" or "as long as you keep it lubed" presumes that there's a supply chain behind you supplying you with lube.

Just take what you read there with a grain of salt. Read up on the good information. Use it to develop your own purchases and gear selection. Then refine it with your own experience.

[john5036]

I've learned a lot about my rifle from reading through WEVO since I don't have to sift through "buy this from brand x and never look back" or "brand x doesn't do this, won't do that, will blow up... here's the link" blah blah blah. The other AR specific forums, like M4C, I just feel that to post there would be too much of an inconvenience.

All that to say, thanks WEVO for being patient with the new to the AR platform, like myself. It's the reason I come back around.

[a0cake]

Can somebody with dual membership get a hold of a Mod at m4carbine.net for me and relay the following message:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I started randomly getting the following error message when trying to login to M4C:

Wrong username or password. You have used up your failed login quota! Please wait 15 minutes before trying again. Don't forget that the password is case sensitive. Forgotten your password? Click here!

I have tried resetting my PW but no matter what I do, I keep getting this message. I've deleted my cookies, tried different computers, etc. My email is a0cake@gmail.com Please advise. Thanks


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[devildogljb]

Can somebody with dual membership get a hold of a Mod at m4carbine.net for me and relay the following message:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I started randomly getting the following error message when trying to login to M4C:

Wrong username or password. You have used up your failed login quota! Please wait 15 minutes before trying again. Don't forget that the password is case sensitive. Forgotten your password? Click here!

I have tried resetting my PW but no matter what I do, I keep getting this message. I've deleted my cookies, tried different computers, etc. My email is a0cake@gmail.com Please advise. Thanks


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i think its happening to alot of members, including myself, also getting emails stating that some one is trying to access my account and the ip address is not mine. The staff have not said any thing yet but im starting to think the site was attacked again. Im really starting to wonder how safe the members are on there with our personal info on there.

[bullitt]

Same thing is happening to me. I can't log in at all because of it. Looks like someone may be using a script or something to try to crack people's passwords.

[Army Chief]

Put simply, the DDOS attacks have not stopped since they originally began a month or more ago. What most members are experiencing is a result not of intrusions or harmful scripts, but of the IP filtering that is currently in place to thwart the attacks.

AC

[a0cake]

Thanks for the info AC. Is there anything I can do to get back on, or is this something that I just have to ride out and hope resolves itself?

[CCK]

AC,
It has become completely useless to me and my browsing style. I browse there like I browse everywhere else, which is to say find topics I'm interested in, open topic in background tab, read first topic and move to next.

For whatever reason the site must perceive my opening of 5-15 tabs in background relatively quickly as a DDoS attack and prevents any tab from loading.

In other words, completely useless.

Chris

[5pins]

Funny how we get more info here on M4C then we do from M4C. I really wish they would do a better job letting members know what is going on.

[neo9710]

The most recent error I have received..."502 Bad Gateway nginx/1.0.0"

That cant be a good sign..

[Stickman]

I'm unable to log in as well. Same messages and issues as everyone else is having....

[sqwerl]

I received the same "Wrong user name or password." message a few days ago and the email message with the unrecognized IP in it. I clicked the 'forgot password' link and had a temporary password sent to me and I was able to log in. I changed my password but then a day or so later I started getting the same error message again when I try to log in.

[Surf]

Apparently my home IP is also suspect over at M4C as I am getting the same login messages or gateway errors. :P

On the other hand my cell phone still connects and I can log on. I refuse to surf the net on my cell phone however.

Oh, btw Hi, I'm Surf, the new kid. [:D]

[Hmac]

It appears that some people are affected a lot more than others, iPad and iPhone users among them as well as others. It's a difficult spot for the admins at M4C to be in. I'm sure their current remedial measures are taken so as to serve the greatest number, but some of us have fallen by the wayside as they try to fight their way out of this attack.

[Specialized Armament]

Funny how we get more info here on M4C then we do from M4C. I really wish they would do a better job letting members know what is going on.

Actually kind of SAD that the most active thread on this forum, including a number of first posts, is about M4C...

[Nuclear_Arms]

Actually kind of SAD that the most active thread on this forum, including a number of first posts, is about M4C...

Agreed.

It seems to me that the troubles over there provide the perfect opportunity to increase the discussions and traffic over here.

[Ranger325]

Apparently my home IP is also suspect over at M4C as I am getting the same login messages or gateway errors. :P

On the other hand my cell phone still connects and I can log on. I refuse to surf the net on my cell phone however.

Oh, btw Hi, I'm Surf, the new kid. [:D]

I'm getting the gateway error msg as well.
Welcome Surf - I've read your stuff on M4C and youtube - thanks for your insight its been very helpful to me.

Regards,

[lifebreath]

Actually kind of SAD that the most active thread on this forum, including a number of first posts, is about M4C...

Hello, I'm Lifebreath and I'm a recovering m4carbine-netter ... First post here, and the access problems there have been really frustrating.

This looks like a good site.

[Cristian]

who would be responsible for such a DDOS attack? I've never even heard of such a thing...

[Hmac]

who would be responsible for such a DDOS attack? I've never even heard of such a thing...

DDoS attacks are a common tool of malicious hackers and script kiddies. Even big sites like ebay, Amazon, CNN, Dell have been victims.

[Army Chief]

This looks like a good site.

We cater to a lot of the very same folks. You'll also find that a very similar mindset predominates here. If I had to identify specific differences, M4C tends primarily to serve as a vehicle for the interchange of ideas/discussion, whereas WeVo is designed with a more active bias toward industry news and reference materials (reviews, how-tos, etc.). In the end, we've found that all of these objectives tend to be pretty complimentary.

AC

[Cristian]

DDoS attacks are a common tool of malicious hackers and script kiddies. Even big sites like ebay, Amazon, CNN, Dell have been victims.

Thanks for the explanation. I just read the whole thread...it is sad that some people have such brittle egos that they can't take criticism and then have to resort to an attack of that sort. Anyway, I'm glad that this site exists and a good thing to come out of m4c having issues is that I got to check out this site. I didn't post often on m4c (I have the awful screen name of Son of Vlad Tepes on there), but it is great to see familiar people that are such great sources of information on m4c, here, on this site.

[NickDrak]

I really wish they would get M4c squared away with whatever is causing the issues with the site. It is my go to site and I cant even view on my home computer. I have better luck on my phone.

[Army Chief]

I didn't post often on m4c (I have the awful screen name of Son of Vlad Tepes on there), but it is great to see familiar people that are such great sources of information on m4c, here, on this site.

For the record, your user name can always be changed, if you prefer something else.

AC

[Ed L.]

I have been getting the "504 Gateway Time-out" message on and off since Sunday night and am getting it now. Sometimes you get through to the forum itself, only to click on a subforum and still get the same message.

[Ed L.]

Actually kind of SAD that the most active thread on this forum, including a number of first posts, is about M4C...

Sorry. I guess some of us were going through withdrawl over not having enough intelligent AR conversation. Hopefully we will become more active members here as time goes by.

[Paulo_Santos]

I really wish they would get M4c squared away with whatever is causing the issues with the site. It is my go to site and I cant even view on my home computer. I have better luck on my phone.

Nick, thanks for your help over on 10-8.

[Hmac]

Between the inability to connect via iPhone or iPad, and M4C being blocked at work ("weapons" are filtered), I don't do M4C much anymore. Hackers win.

Since "weapons" is filtered at work, I have been surprised that WEVO isn't blocked. Must be a difference in header tags.

[Paulo_Santos]

I think this thread has run its course. By now everyone knows what is going on over there.