Help with AR-15 Upper Build

[VictorMikeLima]

Hello, to the community of the weaponevolution's forums!

I'm in need of assistance on building a complete AR-15 upper.

A short introduction, I am a beginner with firearms. Though I've been around the idea of picking up a rifle/pistol for years, and now that I'm able to finance this hobby/lifestyle I'm trying to cram as much knowledge as I can within two weeks (one week now) before I head to a gun show and try to pick out some specific parts and get some deals, if I'm lucky. My knowledge of firearms relies solely on what I'm able to gather on the internet, via forums, articles, etc., so I'm not very knowledgeable on quality of certain items, rather than what is highly spoken of. (Most of the information I've gained this past week has been information from years ago, and it seems that information has changed. Such as the types of metal being used. I haven't seen a mention of 4140 or 4150 while shopping for barrels yet. At least I believe that's the type of "carbon steel" that they used in barrels?)

So I'm trying to slowly and progressively build my own AR, piece by piece, starting with what consists in the rifles upper.

If I'm correct, the upper consists of the following parts:

- Upper Receiver
- Bolt Carrier Group
- Charging Handle
- Barrel
- Gas Block
- Gas Tube
- Flash Hider/Compensator
- Delta ring
- Barrel Nut
- Hand guard/Rail system

Everything above has been what I have been paying attention to in purchasing. I'm not very sure if there's a higher quality gas tube, or not. And would the Delta ring and Barrel Nut be purchased together? Like the Bolt Carrier Group?

I've made a list of what seems to be reliable and heavy duty items to put together a good rifle. (Based on how highly people have talked about some of these parts, and personal preferences to company names, please, do feel free to recommend and criticize my list. I would more than appreciate any advice I could get.)

Also to note, the rifle would be used for shooting at the range (consistently), tactical training course/classes, and of course, self defense.

For the Upper Receiver I wanted to choose from either the LaRue Stealth Upper or the VLTOR MUR-1A Upper. Both seemed to be spoken well of, so it seems that I couldn't go wrong with either one. Though I couldn't really decide which to choose between. I've tried doing more research on how they were built, but I have a week left to have a rough thought on what I need for the upper of the AR, so being thorough about the metals used felt too time consuming. Anyways, if there's any other Upper Receivers I should look into, please, feel free to recommend them to me! Also, any thoughts on the LaRue and the VLTOR upper receivers?

The bolt carrier group has already been decided on with the "BCM Bolt Carrier Group (MPI) - Auto". I've heard nothing but good news about it, and I thought I'd let the BCG go hand in hand with a "BCM Gun Fighter Charging Handle". I needed something with a latch, and this seemed like a highly praised product as well. I did give thought to the "PRI Gas Buster Charging Handle", but it seemed to talk a lot about the use of suppressors? Something I don't see myself using in the near future.

Okay, this is where it gets tricky for me...The barrel assembly. As I understand, I need the barrel, the delta ring, the barrel nut (plus the spring and that little ring to hold it together), and the gas tube and gas block to fully complete my barrel, is this correct? This ties into which rail system I'm going to be applying to my rifle. I wanted something lightweight, but I had second thoughts about something like the VTAC/Troy Industries' TRX rails to be less durable than say, a Knights Armament rail system? (Which I've considered the URX III out of the VTAC and Troy designs, though I don't dig the front sights KAC puts on most of their rail systems). Anyways, for the barrel I've considered some of the following companies, Daniel Defense, BCM, LMT, and Noveske. Honestly, though, I'm more in favor of the Noveske or the Daniel Defense, because those are the two that I've heard the most good news about. (Not to say the others are bad any other way, it just seems more people have trusted Noveske and DD with their lives and money). But this is where I have hardly any knowledge on, which barrel should I get? I'm looking for a 16" barrel, which I believe is considered a mid-length. But, the thread I read on AR15.com says that Stainless Steel barrels, while accurate, don't have the durability of life of a, let's say, Chrome Lined 4150 barrel. But what I was told to look for was a barrel that has been Chrome Lined for the best reliability and prolonged duration off usage. I'd like to build a rifle that will last me until I have children, or get married for that matter, ha!

But with all that said, I feel this is the field where I need help with the most. Which are the best 16" barrels out there, in terms of quality, reliability, accuracy, and all other I'm missing with the field of use I've mentioned above. And about the gas block, if I was to purchase LaRue's low profile gas block, could I extend a rail system such as the Troy Industries' TRX or the KAC URX III for that matter? They seem to run very thin. Is there anything I should know about delta rings/barrels nuts and gas tubes other than that I believe them all to be of mil-spec or commercial standard?

Thank you all, so very much for taking the time out of your day to read my thread. If you're reading this, I appreciate the slightest effort in helping me, and I hope to become apart of this community and transcend into a "sheep dog" lifestyle!

- Hooyah!

[5pins]

Have you considered just buying a complete upper?

[VictorMikeLima]

Hey, 5pins. Thanks for reading! I have considered buying a complete upper. Though, since I am at a beginner stage of understanding rifles, I'd like to buy as many separate items as I can, so that I may try to put it together myself as a learning process. Unless I am in absolute need of assistance from a gunsmith who has access to tools out of reach! But, thank you for your input, it is appreciated!

[Wondering Beard]

Youi know, because a rifle can be put together somewhat easily, it means that it can also be taken apart somewhat easily.

I think you will be better served by getting a complete quality upper (The Larue Stealth -which doesn't have M4 feedramps if i remember correctly- and MUR are very good but pricey; A Bravo one will serve you just as well) that you can take apart so as to figure out how things fit together rather than the other way around.

When you have as little experience with the AR as you say you have, you will learn faster by getting something already assembled by a quality company,. A simple platform will teach you your likes and dislikes better than starting off with an assemblage of quality parts that no matter how much your research it, you won't know you'll like until you shoot it; at least the simple platform can be changed from your experience with less cost.

[5pins]

I just thought I would throw the idea out. In the end it will end up costing more because you are going to need to buy some tools for the job. I do understand the desire to build it yourself.

Based off of your needs for the rifle I don’t think you need the LaRue or Vltor upper. A standard M4 upper will work just fine. I also would not recommend a stainless barrel; get a BCM or DD and you are set. You need to decide what type of hand guard or rail you want. This will determine what parts and tools you need to get. Depending on the rail you choose you may not need the barrel nut and delta ring stuff. Most of the rails have proprietary nuts and wrenches.

[Gator]

I agree with 5pins. A basic(FSB + HG CAP + Delta Ring) upper from BCM or DD would be the best way to go. I have a couple of Larue Stealths myself and have since realized they are unnecessary for my purpose.
Basic stuff to look our for are (Off BCM's site):
Barrel:
M4 Feed Ramp Barrel Extension (USGI)
USGI 1/7 Twist Rates
USGI 5.56 NATO Chambers
Mil-Spec 11595E - Barrel Steel (CMV)
Chrome Lined Bore and Chamber
Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish
USGI Government Profile Barrels
HPT (High Pressure Test) Barrels
MPI (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Barrels

BCG:
Milspec Carpenter No. 158® Steel
HPT Bolt (High Pressure Test/ Proof)
MPI Bolt (Magnetic Particle Inspected)
Shot Peened Bolt
Tool Steel Extractor
Black Extractor Insert
Properly staked carrier key

Lower:
Milspec receiver extension with properly staked castle nut
a good full LPK

[VictorMikeLima]

Thank you all so much for your input! I really do appreciate everyone's time and opinions. With everyone's advice (5pins, Wondering Beard, and Gator) I'm starting to think that I should pick up a complete upper receiver group instead. Though, the reason why I shied away from purchasing complete uppers before was because I feel a bit uncomfortable about purchasing them. I'm not exactly sure why, perhaps it's because I feel it wouldn't be my own custom built AR-15. Perhaps there would be an absence in a sense of pride that I didn't build the rifle from toe, up. Do others feel that way as well?

The price to build a custom upper, part for part, doesn't seem that far off from purchasing a complete upper from what I've calculated. I could be terribly wrong though, and if so, please, please, correct me! It's just something I thought I would point out.

Upper Receiver $200 (VLTOR MUR-1A)
Bolt and Charging Handle $185 (BCM BCG, and Gun Fighter Charging Handle)
Hand guard/ Rail System $189 (VTAC TRX 13")
Compensator $165 (Battle Comp 2.0)
BUIS $100 - 200 (Magpul MBUS or Troy Industries BUIS)
Gas block $70 (LT Gas block)
Gas Tube $13 (BCM)

And the Barrel I would say would run around $400? I'm not sure which company would make a quality barrel, but from Gator's list. That's what I'll be on the look out for, I assume.
I like Noveske's products, but they don't seem to meet Gator's specs for a good barrel. BCM has a barrel that meets Gator's specs, though for $229, which leaves me a bit skeptical. I believe in the "You get what you pay for" motto. While I would gladly pick this barrel up if it truly is a reliable and durable one, that doesn't sacrifice quality for accuracy. It seems too good to be true.

But, yes. Generally, that's what my upper build would look like. I don't believe I'm missing anything? Other than the barrel, of course. But that runs up to around $1151 - $1422 + tax. Which seems to be the price for the more high end upper groups on the BCM website. Which seem to range from $700 - $1100 + $200 because they don't come with the BCG or Charging Handle. (So $900 - $1300).

Also, to note, I like the fact that by building a rifle part for part, I can extend the duration of the buying process, it's almost like financing for the rifle! (Through my perspective). So I wouldn't have to drop a large sum of money for a complete upper and then the lower, it just seems like a lot more money when I do that. I mean, I would definitely be spending the same amount, most likely more. But it's like buying groceries, you can't use all your money to buy all of the bacon, because you need that money to buy eggs, too! (If that makes sense).

I only bring up this point of building the AR part for part against purchasing complete uppers and lowers as a discussion topic. If purchasing a complete upper is truly the money saver in the long run, and the reliable rifle that I may someday have to use to save my life, or another. Than I'll definitely spend less cash for it. I've just gotta weigh the pros and cons here, and take all of the advice I can from you more experienced folks. I am also not adamant in my decision about purchasing a complete upper, just to make it clear.

Again, thank you all for your inputs. This is truly a learning process for me, and every bit of information counts, and all opinions are welcome.

[Eric]

For a first purchase, I have a different view. Although assembling from parts isn't that difficult, I typically recommend buying a complete factory built rifle or at least a complete barreled upper receiver assembly. This gives the user factory support if needed and (unless buying junk) a known functioning weapon.

[Rodman24]

For a first purchase, I have a different view. Although assembling from parts isn't that difficult, I typically recommend buying a complete factory built rifle or at least a complete barreled upper receiver assembly. This gives the user factory support if needed and (unless buying junk) a known functioning weapon.

I agree with Eric. In addition to starting with "a known functioning weapon", it will provide a baseline for determining items that you may want to modify for specific reaons.

[VictorMikeLima]

Thank you for the input, gentleman!

So, as put earlier by 5pins and the others. They've recommended a BCM or a Daniel Defense upper. In that case, if I was to purchase a fully factory built rifle. Which companies should I take a look at? I understand that I would like to have a rifle with a mil-spec buffer tube, and m4 feeding ramps. But for everything else, I'm not sure what to look for. Let's say that I go to the gun show this weekend (which I will be). And I find a line of AR-15's to look at (there were literally hundreds of the last month). What should I be looking for? I know that Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, DPMS, and a few others make "commercial" rifles. Which is what I would rather stay away from, unless, the only difference in the bushmaster is the buffer tube? (I haven't looked into fully built rifles, yet). I had planned on purchasing the VLTOR A5 system for my original build with the Battle Comp Compensator, for as much recoil control as possible.

Okay, so let's start off with a basic AR-15. Something the car community would call "Stock". Which brands should I be looking for? What's the Toyota or Honda of the AR-15 world? Of course, I'm looking for a reliable, efficient, and higher end AR. (Actually, should I be looking for a high end and pricey AR if I'm planning on tweaking the rifle after a few hundred to possibly a thousand rounds?) I may be getting ahead of myself with my original AR build, but I felt like it would have been best to start off with a top of the line type of gun. Perhaps this will provide as a better learning experiment, rather than jumping the gun and getting all of these goodies that I may or may not need.

What would you guys really recommend? Let's say I was a personal friend of yours, and I came to you for advice and wanting to purchase a basic AR-15 to upgrade in the future, and I guess in time, grow with. Which rifles would you recommend to me? Or tell me to buy? (If and when I purchase a fully built AR, it would immediately begin my project to better the rifle, just to note. So parts will be swapping out to lighten the rifle or to better adapt it to versatility.)

Would purchasing a built rifle, such as a Knight Armament SR-15/SR-16, LaRue's PredatAR, or one of Noveske's rifles be a bad choice? (Noveske's pretty pricey, I think I'd rather pick up an ACR or SCAR 16s for their price). I would take all rifles into consideration, heck, I would probably prefer it if you guys just told me which rifle to buy since my decision of which rifle to go with would not be coming from experience.

Oh, and last but not least! What are some of the price ranges that I'm going to be looking for? When should I know to buy a certain rifle at the gun show? (That's where I plan on purchasing the rifle) I understand that Gun Shows are meant to be cheap or a lot cheaper, so if I can get a $1,200 AR for $800 (we can all hope) than that would be ideal!

Once, again. I appreciate everyone's helpfulness here at this wonderful community. I hope to hear from you all again!

[Rodman24]

In my opinion, you should not purchase your 1st AR at a gun show. I would buy it from a reputable local firearms dealer. That way you'll have a chance to build a relationship in the event you have any issues with the weaopn. Always remember that they might try to "sell" you something that they have in stock, so don't necessarily buy on the day you go in for information. They're quite used to people who come in for multiple discussions before they buy. I advise going at a time when they're not too busy. They'll be more than happy to help you make your decision. If not, find another dealer.

I like Daniel Defense. I would suggest a Carbine length V1, or a Mid-length V5. If you don't want an FSB you could go for another model. I wouldn't worry too much about changing the rifle until you know exactly what you want to get out of it. If you spend a lot of time reading this forum you'll discover that the weapon really needs to be set up for it's use. Buy the stock rifle, shoot it until you really feel comfortable with it and then start looking at mods that would help you accomplish your needs. Or try a build at that time. It will never hurt to have the original.

As for price... dig around on the internet and see what's being offered. For example: A DDM4 V1 can be had for around $1,200

[VictorMikeLima]

Rodman24, thank you so much for the referral! I checked out Daniel Defenses website and took a look at their Carbine Length V1, and watched the torture test video...it has me sold! Unless I can find another manufacturer who can prove itself better. Though, I do have a question about the Carbine Length and the Mid-Length...

What's the difference between the two? Other than the Carbine has a Front Sight Base, and the Mid-length does not. Are they not the same rifles? Same barrel lengths and such?

(From a quick look, it seems that the V1 - V2 are Carbine Length, and the V3 - V5 are mid-length. Would you, or anyone, happen to know the difference between V1 - V5?)

I've never really understood why some rifles were Carbine Length and Mid-Length even though that both had 16" barrels. Or, on BCM's site, they have a RECCE rifle that is 16" as well. What's different between them that requires them to have different names?

[Rodman24]

Though, I do have a question about the Carbine Length and the Mid-Length...

What's the difference between the two? ?

Check out this thread. (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?224-MidLength-vs-Carbine)

BTW the V3 has an FSB like the V1, but since the FSB is further out, it has a different rail system. I referenced the V5 in my earlier post. I should have said V3. V5 has the LPGB.

[VictorMikeLima]

Thank you so much for that thread link, Rodman24! That definitely cleared up any information on mid-lengths and Carbines and I definitely have a better understanding of the gas systems.

Now, I did a side by side check of the Daniel Defense Rifles and the only other question I seem to have about them is the barrel profiles. What are the differences in the M4 Profile and the Gov't Profiles? Also to add, would there be any cons with the Lightweight barrels from Daniel Defense? (Like the DD M4 Carbine V5 LW?) Is there less durability or accuracy to them? Because if they're just lighter and better than I can definitely pick that one up instead!

Again, thanks, Rodman24! You're really helping me make a more confident decision in purchasing a fully built rifle!

[Wondering Beard]

Midlength vs carbine length refers to the length of the gas tube.

The longer midlength gas system is supposed to be less hard on the internals and subjectively softer shooting. If you do a search on midelngths in this site you will find plenty of reasoned discussion.

I also support buying a Daniel Defense rifle. BCM's complete rifles are also good to go as is the Colt 6920. With any of these, you get quality reliable rifles from the get go.

One thing though, you might want to stay away presently from railed handguards. You have written that you really want to learn the rifle (both shooting and how it functions) and rails can require a full range of tools to remove; on the other hand, the plastic handguards can be very easily removed and if you just want to try out a rail without complicating things too much, the Daniel Defense Omega is very easy to install and you don't have to worry about installing and/or removing barrel nuts. Then further down the road as you know more you can get the type of rail you like.

Personally, I think you may want to look at a DD XV EZ, a BCM M4 or MID-16 or a Colt 6920. They're quality rifles to learn on and can be easily modified as your knowledge and tastes evolve.

I know they don't look like 'high end' but they are inside which is where it counts.

If you do want a rail from the start, stick with the same manufacturers but look for a two piece rail which is easier to remove. If it were me, I'd go for the DD V5 (which I am actually thinking about buying) simply because the longer rail gives more options for mounting what you want and you already have a low profile gas block so that you don't have to monkey around with the FSB if you decide you don't want it anymore.

[5pins]

Whenever I’m asked I usually respond by saying Colt. Not that I think that BCM and DD are a lesser gun but because Colts are the easiest to find.

[VictorMikeLima]

Thanks for the info Wonder Beard! I as able to talk to my boss today who is knowledgeable about firearms. He said that I should get a 1:8 twist instead of a 1:7? Apparently you can't shoot a certain amount of grain from a round? Such as a 40 grain I believe he said. Would anyone agree with that? Would that mean that if I purchased a 1:7 twist, that I would have to only fire the more expensive ammunition? (I'm a student, so I planned to spend $100 or so every two weeks to be consistent, and I believe it's about $16 for 20x .223's? So I could shoot around 100 rounds every week or two?)

My boss also said that Colt makes higher quality built rifles than Daniel Defense. I have a bit of a hard time believing this after watching Daniel Defenses torture test. Though Colt has been around longer, and I believe it's like the godfather of the AR-15. (Was is Colt to manufacture the first M16 rifle? Or Armalite? I forget...)

Anyways, guys...$1,500 for an AR. Which should I choose? Colt or Daniel Defense? (I would be going with the DD M4 Carbine V5, not sure which model of the colt I would get. The 6920 like Wonder Beard mentioned perhaps?)

I also thought of getting the KAC SR-15. My boss has one and says it runs around $1,900 to $2,200? That's a pretty penny there.

I'll have to do more research on each brands. But what do you guys think of the 1:8 twist barrel? He also said that it's more versatile than the 1:7, because it can shoot both high grain and low grain ammunition.

[Rodman24]

As for the twist, I've honestly never tried shooting a 40 gr in a 1:7 twist. Everything that I've heard/read is that 55 gr is about the smallest you'll want to use. Unless you have a need for shooting 40 gr (varmit hunting), the 1:7 will be the way to go.

As for ammo, you can get Federal 5.56 55 gr at Palmetto State Armory for $5.69/20 (http://palmettostatearmory.com/500.php) rounds ($284.50/1000). Match grade ammo will definitely cost you more and you'll want to run with heavier bullets (69 ro 75 gr for example) with the 1:7 twist (prices vary). If you want a 1:8 or 1:9 twist you're going to start limiting your choices. Keep in mind that punching paper for accuracy is one thing. Training for SHTF or HD engagement is another.

As for the Colt, BCM, KAC, Daniel Defense... you can't go wrong. Any of the those will deliver. I don't think that paying a premium for one over the other would be in your best interest at this point. You need ammo and time on the range. Shooting proficiency and training are a must. Don't get hung up on brand.

While I'm a fan of Daniel Defense, don't let the torture test sway your opinion too much. Colt, BCM, KAC, and others would deliver the same results. It was definitely a good test for the Aimpoint T-1.

[Wondering Beard]

Would that mean that if I purchased a 1:7 twist, that I would have to only fire the more expensive ammunition?

Which should I choose? Colt or Daniel Defense? (I would be going with the DD M4 Carbine V5, not sure which model of the colt I would get. The 6920 like Wonder Beard mentioned perhaps?)


About twist rate: what Rodman said. 55 gr is the most common practice ammo and a 1/7 will shoot them just fine. Ammo for more specialized purposes (defense, hunting, benchrest etc..) generally come in heavier weights which the 1/7 will shot just fine. The 1/8 seems to be flavor of the year (along with a Wylde chamber) when it comes to precision shooting, not that it's bad but is it really needed for most applications? 1/7 covers just about anything you want to shoot

As to which one to choose? what features do you want?

For a basic carbine that you can modify over time as it pleases you, it's hard to beat the Colt 6920 (it's basically the M4 with a 16 inch barrel instead of 14.5). The DD V5 is already set up with a solid rail that you can accessorize any way you want due to its length but do you /should you want a rail? It's up to you. My HD carbine doesn't have one.

Reflexively, I would say Colt (or a BCM/DD equivalent) because it's simple to learn on. My first serious AR was chosen because it had what I thought were all the right features from my internet reading. It's an excellent rifle that I don't regret but I wish I had started with something simpler that I could build on as my learning advanced. However, I am not you and what I really needed may not apply to you at all.

[VictorMikeLima]

Thanks, again, guys! You're really helping me out here, and I greatly appreciate it!

So, it seems the 1:7 would be the more versatile barrel. So, I should never shoot anything less than .223 or 5.56 nato out of my rifle. Unless, the purpose would be not to severely damage something, or demolish it in a sense. So the less grain used in a round, the more "gentle" the round fires or impacts? (That's sort of common sense if I think about it). What about higher grained rounds? What's an amount that I wouldn't want to surpass or fire through my rifle that could be unsafe or a larger liability? (For example, in a home defense environment, where the round could rip through an attacker and possibly go through the home and hurt somebody else, or even damage a neighbors home?)

As for other ammunition questions, where could I go to learn about them? Is there a thread possibly? I thought Federal was a good brand of ammunition? The one you would want to stock up and rely on. Or is it the better quality training ammunition?

Is there a way to verify a list of purposes of use for different grains of ammunition? Such as the 55 grain being your practice ammunition, what would the 69 and the 75 be used for? I would assume the higher grain rounds would be used for longer distant shooting and the lower grains to be closer, perhaps? But by how many meters or yards exactly? I probably won't be shooting past 300 meters/yards, not with an AR at least.

About my decisions on choosing an AR. The Colt 6920 seems to be a trusted and reliable rifle. Though it is carbine length, and I was looking for a mid-length. Would I be able to keep the barrel on the rifle and switch the front sight post with a low profile gas block in the future? It would be nice to own a Carbine Length, but eventually I believe I would make it a mid-length. Also, another question for the Colt 6920...Could that rifle stand up to what I saw with the Daniel Defense M4 V1? That torture test just blew my mind and makes the rifle seem top of the line, but I'm not sure how durable other rifles are so I really wouldn't be able to compare. But in the event that something may happen, I would like my rifle to hold up and possibly last a decade or two. If not longer! My decisions are honestly probably 75% based on others' opinions, because I am a beginner, and I can only study what They say. The other 25% would probably be that I favor companies. If that 6920 can be modified to a mid-length and can withstand the Daniel Defense, if not out perform it. I will most definitely purchase that rifle, it doesn't have to be fact, but a solid opinion would be appreciated. Like all inputs I have received. I've really learned a lot in the past week and for the most part, I have everyone in this thread to thank for it!

[Rodman24]

You should never try to shoot ammo in guns that aren’t designed for that chamber. I’m not sure you understand the bullet weight/caliber issue. The bullet (projectile) used in .223/5.56 has the same diameter. The difference between .223 and 5.56 NATO is related to the case and load, (same with .308 and 7.62 NATO), not the diameter of the bullet. The weight, shape and make-up of the bullet can vary. Go to this page (http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/223-556-reload.php)and look at the various shapes and contours. The bullet diameter is always .224 regardless of the bullet weight/configuration. There are standard flat based rounds, hollow point boat tail, etc. These provide different ballistics and accuracy characteristics. A smaller bullet weight doesn’t necessarily mean less energy transferred to the target. Lighter bullets can also be loaded with more powder to produce higher velocities.

As for penetration in HD environment, you should look around for good HD rounds (Hornady TAP is one an example). Smaller higher velocity bullets tend to break apart and with lower mass tend to not over penetrate. But you should always be aware of what is beyond your target. That’s a basic rule. Heavier weighted bullets will be more accurate in a 1:7 twist because it be more stable than lighter bullets. If a lighter bullet like a 40 gr is fired from a 1:7 twist barrel, it will over-spin and tumble. Heavier grain bullets will be more stable and have more mass. They’re going to deliver a larger punch on the target (generally speaking).

Federal and PMC are inexpensive rounds that are good for training, and for fighting. They just not high grade match quality ammunition.

If you want to go to low profile gas block you can then add a longer handguard, but the gas system doesn’t change. Yes you can take a Colt, add a LPGB and add a longer rail, but you won’t be changing the carbine length gas system into a mid-length gas system.

For more on the torture test read this thread for some observations. (http://http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?3214-Daniel-Defense-Torture-Test&highlight=torture+test)

I think that since you’re so new to firearms, you have a lot to learn about shooting (ammo etc). It’s an exciting time for you. Start slow and learn all you can before you spend a lot of hard earned money on things that may not work out for you. Some of that is inevitable. There’s a lot to learn on the internet - some good and some bad. You should also find some folks who shoot a lot and ask them lots of questions. Go to gun stores and talk to them as well. Be sure to take what they tell you and categorize it into 2 big buckets: Reasoned/Objective Information and Opinion. Then run that information by some other folks for their views (same buckets apply). Start the filtering process, and once you have enough good information, put some of it to use and find out what you can validate and what works for your purposes.

[VictorMikeLima]

Oh! So the "grain" of a round would be the grain of the projectile itself? I thought it was the amount of gun powder inside the cartridge...! That's something new!

I also thought that a 5.56 barrel could fire both 5.56 nato and .223 ammunition?

Also, as for which rifle I've decided on. I'll go with the Colt 6920, though, it seems Colt has discontinued their LE model and is manufacturing a SP model. What are your thoughts between the two? Should I hunt for a LE model or just pick up an SP?

And from what I've read so far on this product, I've heard people shoot Wolf ammunition to text the reliability of a rifle? (Apparently Wolf ammo is of very poor quality.) I'll stick to the recommended brands. Which would be the "PMC X-TAC 55gr" and the "Federal XM193J 5.56mm 55gr FMJ", correct? (From what I'm looking at through the link you've sent me, Rodman24). What about the "Federal XM193BL"? Apparently this is a training round from what the site says, but it doesn't give information on the round itself.

I'd like to purchase a few hundred rounds or a solid thousand after my rifle purchase to get some range time and to get familiar with the rifle, but I would feel more comfortable purchasing ammunition in bulk if I could learn what the letters in these rounds meant. For example, Federals "XM193J", that "J" must mean something that I don't know. How would I go about learning how to identify ammunition?

Thanks guys for being of so much help! :)

[Rodman24]

You can shoot .223 in a 5.56 chambered weapon, but not 5.56 in a .223 chambered weapon. Much like you can shoot a .38 in a .357 revolver, but not vice versa.

The Colt should treat you just fine. No real opinion on the Civilian or LE model.

I can't really speak to the Wolf ammo. I don't plan to use it.

The Federal XM193 alphabet soup is a code for the manner in which it's packaged. J is the 20 round box, BL is the 100 round box, BM is the 1,000 round bulk case, etc. 193 is the code for the 55 gr, 855 is the 62 gr green tip.

[Wondering Beard]

Ammo confusion is perfectly normal. It took me a good long time too and frankly still confuses me every so often in the 5.56 realm.

A grain is a unit of weight measurement. It can refer to bullet weight or powder weight (or something else that small); the latter is not done anymore. Back in the days of black powder (and the early days of smokeless powder I think too), a load could be called by its caliber and powder charge, i.e 45-70, a 45 caliber round loaded with 70 grains of black powder.

Nowadays with the all the different powders and powder loadings, it's not practical to designate a caliber by the old system so grains are primarily used to talk about bullets (unless you're into reloading where the weight in grains of whichever powder you're using matters a great deal).

Unless you plan to put your rifle to use in HD or hunting soon after acquisition, don't worry yet about "which bullet is best for .." and get in some practice time with good 55gr practice ammo, i.e. some M193 variant from a quality manufacturer like Federal. As to what "the best bullet for .." actually is, you will find as many different answers as there are people. There is very little in the way of a reliable list to tell you what to choose. At this point in time, you might be better served by putting that category as a separate research from rifle research and read a great deal with an even greater deal of skepticism. It's a complicated subject with fanatical adherents to various theories and designs. I have my ideas and theories about ammo but they're only mine and not some "grand/all encompassing/covers and explains everything" theory.

Wolf ammo is cheap (in most meanings of the word) and that's why some people use it.

As to your rifle, if you really want a simple midlength to start with, the BCM MID-16 will do you just fine. You can modify the 6920 to become a midlength but you would have to take off the barrel and replace it with a new one and do a couple of other things; frankly, it's just easier to buy a midlength to start with or as a second rifle. I don't know that there's enough of a difference between midlength and carbine length gas system to make one truly better than the other but I'm not experienced enough to tell. Btw, the DD in the torture test is a carbine gas system, not midlength.

You'll be fine with any of the rifles recommended to you here. The only reason I can think of for choosing one over any of the others is the availibilty and price that you can find., though others may disagree.

As too the LE vs SP Colt, as far as I know they are the same rifle with different designations.

[VictorMikeLima]

Hey, guys!

Just got back from the Gun Show, unfortunately no one had the Colt 6920 in stock. One vender had the rifle, but was selling it for $1,400. Which is much more than the prices found online. I also tried looking for discount ammunition at the show, but it seems like the best option is to purchase in bulk online. Where do you guys normally purchase your ammunition?

[Hmac]

Hey, guys!

Just got back from the Gun Show, unfortunately no one had the Colt 6920 in stock. One vender had the rifle, but was selling it for $1,400. Which is much more than the prices found online. I also tried looking for discount ammunition at the show, but it seems like the best option is to purchase in bulk online. Where do you guys normally purchase your ammunition?

If you go to enough guns shows, you are likely someday to stumble across a good deal. Otherwise, in my experience around here, it's going to be mostly dealers selling store inventory that won't move, cheap and/or marginal quality items they got a good deal on in bulk, or the occasional item that is otherwise very difficult to find (you'll pay a lot).

Ammunition is a reasonable thing to buy online, but pay attention to the shipping charges. I generally shoot PMC Bronze, and my break point is $0.30 per round. I've been buying from Palmetto State armory. They are reliable, have good prices, and charge $12 shipping for 1000 rounds. There are other places that price their ammo similarly. Cabelas sell ammo reasonably, but if they have a store in your state they'll have to charge you sales tax for your online purchase.

[VictorMikeLima]

Thanks for the input Hmac! I appreciate it :)

No real news on my purchasing the Colt or any firearm. May just wait till the next Gun Show.