which rail?

[Volta]

First, I've made a couple posts before but this is my first thread so please allow my introduction; hello WEVO, my name is Colt, nice to meet you. Second, I need your help. I recently bought a PSA 20 inch upper with the intention of building general purpose rifle that is extremely durable, first and foremost. I won't be treating this rifle to extreme abuse, however I'd like to know it could take some anyway. Call it an shtf rifle if you will[BD]. I need a durable rail that suits the type of rifle I have in mind and have narrowed it down to modular type rails: the Daniel Defense MFR and the Apex gator grip. Each of these rails has a problem that I can't seem to ignore. My concern with the Apex rail is its lack of an anti rotation feature. this puts all of the strain on the gas tube. Otherwise, the Apex rail appears to have one of the most solid mounting interfaces. As for the MFR, while it has an excellent and robust anti rotation implement, the design of the attachment just doesn't inspire confidence. which do you think has the stronger/better attachment design? why?

thanks, Colt

[lmtrocks]

I have no experience with the Apex, however I think I'd like it's textured feel.

The Daniel Defense MFR, however, is a nice piece of machinery. I have it on my SBR and it has done phenomenally well since I installed it. The tube is machined out in such a way that it is it's own anti-rotation device, extending past the picatinny rail by about 1/4 inch, although the setscrews haven't allowed it to move at all. I think the DD MFR is the better choice here, especially for weight's sake, but the system runs extremely well. I will use it again, on future builds, when I want a 12" rail and not a Troy 7.x, 9, 11, or 13" freefloat. I'm getting a little work done to my MFR at a local machine shop to allow the VTAC rails to be added to tbe bottom of it so I don't have to run the full 3" rail DD ships with it. Should come out nicely.

HTH. Good luck with the build.

[InF1uxx]

I would also recommend the Daniel Defense MFR of your two choices, it is lighter and my experience with their customer service has been phenomenal. I wouldn't put any concern with how a rail attaches to the rifle, they both are solid from my experience using them.

Another option i would consider would be the Rainier Arms Evolution Rail 12.0 (or its brother the Samson Evolution which it was based off of) These rails are light and can easily be installed with no proprietary parts, and also for a lower price than the DD rail and has the anti rotation system that the Apex lacks from what i understand.
Here is a link to tripplebravo's review of this rail. (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?3287-Rainier-Arms-Samson-Evolution-Rail)

[Volta]

thanks for the input guys.

InF1uxx, I actually purchased an 11.0 Rainier Evolution rail for my carbine. It seems like a great rail at a great price point. however, I'd like something a little beefier for my 20" gun. BTW I've ogled over that 3B review like ten times[:D]. If I like it enough, maybe I'll order one for the rifle.

lmtrocks, The gator Grip, as well as the integrated QD sockets really seem to tie the Apex rail together. It comes with no accessory rails and no top rail. however, I don't have a problem with this as i'll likely only add a short rail on the left at 45 degrees for a flashlight. as for weight, the DD does win, initially. I think by the time I add a sling mount and a rail for the flashlight on the MFR, both rails weigh about the same. Another consideration is the gator grip and the MFR's lack of texture. It's "smoothness" may cause need for an AFG. include this in the weight equation and you have a 17 oz setup.

At this point, i'm leaning towards the Apex rail. The mount up just looks solid to me and the combination of the lower price, included QD ports, and the Gator Grip texture are pulling me towards the Apex. Any other input?

[lmtrocks]

Volta---your thought process for the rails is very good sir. I've run a RVG on every upper I own since they started making their way into the market. The AFGs aren't my cup of tea, however many people like them. I'm also a fan of running a 0000hrs TLR-1/X300 setup since it puts light directly in front of my optic, and if shooting around a corner or over a barrier, doesn't push the gun out right or left or higher thus causing additional brain housing group exposure. I also train with baseball gloves and they provide a good amount of grip for my shooting style.

I do see the reasoning toward the Apex, and each company's setups have their benefits. Good luck with your build sir. Sounds like it's going to be a good shooter.

[:D]

[John Hwang]

APEX rails are a nice choice and I prefer them over the VTAC original rail. It's just as sturdy but feels much lighter than the VTAC. I haven't measured the actual weight but I think you will be happy with the APEX.

[TehLlama]

Check the 'charts' section on TacticalYellowVisor - RobS has a complete listing by weight.

[Volta]

TehLlama, i've seen the chart. I actually I refer to it quite often, as it's a great resource. i've got the weight situation all worked out, including several potential configurations.

John Hwang, thanks for your input. I actually have experience with the original Vtac rail (the JP version I assume) so that is an ideal reference for me.

[Volta]

I ended up getting the apex rail. It is definitely what I was looking for; rigid, sturdy, and simplistic. again, thanks for the input. I took some pics of the completed upper attached to a lower from my carbine. When I finish the lower intended for this build, and get an optic, i'll post it in the "explain your ar15 thread". enjoy some pics
http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y359/coltt/024.jpg
http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y359/coltt/033.jpg

[AR-10]

When I first looked at the MFR the angled set screws worried me a little but let me tell you, once it is installed you can pinch the barrel and the tip of the handguard with your fingers and it takes a hard squeeze to see any movement.

I don't know how durable it is, and probably never will know - this one is going to be primarily a bench gun:

http://i40.tinypic.com/11r6p9e.jpg

I really like the rail sections, they take about five seconds to install:

http://i43.tinypic.com/juvkhy.jpg

ETA: Just saw that you bought something, that APEX looks nice!

ETA2: Who makes that front sight?

[Volta]

front sight is an arms 41b. I am really digging it.