New Sig p938 - what do you think?

[MoxyDave]

http://gunnuts.net/2012/01/17/sig-sauer-p938/

I've been very pleased with my little p238 in .380 Auto. The p938 is basically the same gun in 9mm Luger. The barrel is a tad longer but otherwise they are identical.

It will be interesting to see how it works out, but I suspect this will be a very hot item for Sig. I look forward to picking one up.

What do you think?

[Eric]

Looks like a good option for a BUG for Sig fans. 6 (+1) rounds of 9mm would be preferable to the .380 version.

[lamarbrog]

The P238 definitely sells well.

However, I suspect the P938 will be met with the same luke-warm acceptance that the Diamondback DB9 has received.
http://diamondbackfirearms.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=74

We've had a DB9 for about a month now... and people who have no preconceived notion of what is or is not a reputable brand pick one up and immediately say the grip is all sorts of funky before buying a Ruger LC9 or a SIG P238. A grip that is that short top to bottom, that long front to back, and that skinny side to side just does not handle well.

It will sell well briefly as all the SIG fans snatch one up (not meant to be derogatory, just the way it is). The general public who has no brand loyalty, and is looking for something comfortable that fits their needs at a competitive price won't be very interested, though.

Part of the reason the SIG P238 has sold well is that it is very popular among women. Especially considering the size, the P238 recoils mildly and the slide is exceptionally easy to operate. The P938 I suspect will require a heavier spring due to the higher pressure cartridge, so that's one strike against it. The additional recoil of 9mm Parabellum will also be a major factor, more so than normal considering the wants of the likely potential buyers.

In short: I predict it will sell well initially. Resale value will be less than comparable pistols after the people that decide they don't like the grip/recoil/spring begin selling them off. They will sell well enough to earn a spot on most store shelves, given it is a SIG in 9mm, but it won't be anywhere near the success that the P238 has been.

Just what I think, probably wrong...

[MoxyDave]

Insightful thoughts, thank you. I'd like to see it come with a dual-spring recoil guide, but I suspect it won't. That to me is the only detractor. I have normal sized hands and the P238 grip works rather well for me. It will be interesting to see how the 9mm version fares.

[Optimus Prime]

At first, I really liked it; but after some thought I think it's too heavy for how few rounds it holds, and the price just isn't what I'd be willing to pay.

[markm]

Looks like a good option for a BUG for Sig fans. 6 (+1) rounds of 9mm would be preferable to the .380 version.

Monumentally! A .380 Sig is insane.... an expensive gun in a useless caliber?

[lamarbrog]

Monumentally! A .380 Sig is insane.... an expensive gun in a useless caliber?

A SIG-Sauer made pistol with an alloy frame instead of injection molded polymer, that comes from the factory with night sights for $450 is "expensive?" Sure, it's $150 more than a Ruger LCP... but you can spend that much just on the night sights alone that come on most P238s. The better construction, better trigger pull, shorter reset, existence of manageable sights, easier operation, automatic lock back, and better resale value... It's leaps and bounds better, and a better value, than the Ruger LCP. (I compare it to the LCP, being that it is the only noteworthy competition.)

If you really think that .380ACP is a "useless caliber" then... I don't even know what to say to that. I don't own a .380ACP, but to describe it as useless is just ignorant. You're referring to a cartridge which armed a number of prominent European militaries for some time. While I certainly agree that was a mistake in terms of being a service pistol (ie, Beretta M1934) to say that a Walther PPK is "useless" is so laughable that I am really not even sure why I am acknowledging it.

It's a back up gun cartridge. It is ideal for pocket pistols, and is more than adequate for personal protection at common distances.

[Optimus Prime]

Where are you finding a Sig 238 for under $600?

[lamarbrog]

Where are you finding a Sig 238 for under $600?

The store I work at sells them for $600, but we're retail. I didn't really expect anyone on here to pay normal retail prices.

Academy Sports & Outdoors lists them for $450 on their website.

Even at $600... A Glock is $535, so paying $65 over what a Glock costs is not bad when the P238 includes night sights and an alloy frame. It just seems like a lot because the pistol is small in stature... The difference in material is not going to affect cost much, compared to the more expensive manufacturing processes and extra features. Steel, aluminum, and plastic are all cheap. Night sights, and machining an alloy frame cost money.

[MoxyDave]

.380 is perfectly adequate IMHO, and there are many times where dress dictates the smaller option.

ALso, SigLite night sights are my favorite. They have just the right brightness front to rear. They seem to stand out better than any other night sights I've used.

[Sinkhole]

A SIG-Sauer made pistol with an alloy frame instead of injection molded polymer, that comes from the factory with night sights for $450 is "expensive?" Sure, it's $150 more than a Ruger LCP... but you can spend that much just on the night sights alone that come on most P238s. The better construction, better trigger pull, shorter reset, existence of manageable sights, easier operation, automatic lock back, and better resale value... It's leaps and bounds better, and a better value, than the Ruger LCP. (I compare it to the LCP, being that it is the only noteworthy competition.)

If you really think that .380ACP is a "useless caliber" then... I don't even know what to say to that. I don't own a .380ACP, but to describe it as useless is just ignorant. You're referring to a cartridge which armed a number of prominent European militaries for some time. While I certainly agree that was a mistake in terms of being a service pistol (ie, Beretta M1934) to say that a Walther PPK is "useless" is so laughable that I am really not even sure why I am acknowledging it.

It's a back up gun cartridge. It is ideal for pocket pistols, and is more than adequate for personal protection at common distances.
Night Sights on Ruger LCP. Now that would be a neat trick.
As for easier operation, I would beg to differ that point. How is it a SAO handgun with a manual safety is easier to operate than a DAO Handgun with no manual safety.
Trigger pull is apples to oranges, the LCP is DAO / P238 is SAO . Of course a SAO handgun will have a better trigger pull.
I would also say the Sig is not built any better than the Ruger. They are both superbly built firearms.
I think comparing these guns is just like comparing a Glock 36 to a series 70, 1911, How do you compare the two they are worlds apart in design and function.
Let us not forget there is a considerable size and weight difference between these to guns the Ruger is much smaller and much lighter.
And I totally agree the the .380 is not a useless round.
Oh and I paid $448 + tax for my LCP with a Crimson Trace LG-431 brand new.
$179 for the LG-431 & $269 for the LCP on sale with 2 boxes of ammo.
Please do not buy any means think I am bashing the Sig, I am not. I just can't wrap my mind around a justifiable comparison between the two.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/Sinkhole3000/Guns/IMG_0066.jpg

As for the P938 I think its a nice little gun but would like a side by side comparison with a Kimber Solo.

[lamarbrog]

Night Sights on Ruger LCP. Now that would be a neat trick.
As for easier operation, I would beg to differ that point. How is it a SAO handgun with a manual safety is easier to operate than a DAO Handgun with no manual safety.
Trigger pull is apples to oranges, the LCP is DAO / P238 is SAO . Of course a SAO handgun will have a better trigger pull.
I would also say the Sig is not built any better than the Ruger. They are both superbly built firearms.
I think comparing these guns is just like comparing a Glock 36 to a series 70, 1911, How do you compare the two they are worlds apart in design and function.
Let us not forget there is a considerable size and weight difference between these to guns the Ruger is much smaller and much lighter.
And I totally agree the the .380 is not a useless round.
Oh and I paid $448 + tax for my LCP with a Crimson Trace LG-431 brand new.
$179 for the LG-431 & $269 for the LCP on sale with 2 boxes of ammo.
Please do not buy any means think I am bashing the Sig, I am not. I just can't wrap my mind around a justifiable comparison between the two.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/Sinkhole3000/Guns/IMG_0066.jpg

As for the P938 I think its a nice little gun but would like a side by side comparison with a Kimber Solo.

In regards to operation, I was referring to the fact that the SIG P238 has a slide which is easier to pull back (a big selling point for much of the P238's potential buyers), and the fact that the P238 locks back on an empty magazine instead of requiring the shooter to count shots or have the fun *click* moment. Much of the market, in spite of what we as more experience shooters may prefer, still prefers a manual safety.

Just because the LCP uses an inferior mechanism in regards to trigger pull does not make it irrelevant. You could argue that the DAO of the LCP is safer without having an actual safety, but let's be honest about the strengths and weaknesses of each system. Fact: The P238 has a better trigger pull, and especially a better reset.

The P238, which we rent two of on our range, is more durable than the LCP. We have had one extractor break over the course of over a year. The LCPs have pins walking out most of the time, and don't get shot nearly as much. The SIG holds up better under hard use. Does the LCP hold up "well enough", yes... most people buying one will never put 100 rounds through it. So, for the most part, this actually is irrelevant.

And the LCP, while being smaller and lighter, is not significantly so. They're both very compact pistols. It's like splitting hairs between a Ruger LCR and a S&W Bodyguard.

They're both excellent at the job they propose to do... but when they both intend to fill the same role, they must be compared. The general public does so on a daily basis... the LCP and the P238 are fighting over the exact same group of customers. Probably three times per day I show people the LCP and the P238 side by side, because they're the two pistols they are considering for a pocket gun.

For me, the shorter reset, the existence of useable sights, and a lock back on an empty magazine makes the P238 the better choice of the two. The miniscule increase in weight, for me, does not offset these boons. The added expense definitely hurts, but when it comes to firearms, especially those for personal protection, I prefer to just save up and get what I actually want (within reason).



As for a side-by-side with the Kimber Solo.... that would require that someone actually have a Kimber Solo to put beside the P938.

[Sinkhole]

In regards to operation, I was referring to the fact that the SIG P238 has a slide which is easier to pull back (a big selling point for much of the P238's potential buyers), and the fact that the P238 locks back on an empty magazine instead of requiring the shooter to count shots or have the fun *click* moment. Much of the market, in spite of what we as more experience shooters may prefer, still prefers a manual safety.

Just because the LCP uses an inferior mechanism in regards to trigger pull does not make it irrelevant. You could argue that the DAO of the LCP is safer without having an actual safety, but let's be honest about the strengths and weaknesses of each system. Fact: The P238 has a better trigger pull, and especially a better reset.

The P238, which we rent two of on our range, is more durable than the LCP. We have had one extractor break over the course of over a year. The LCPs have pins walking out most of the time, and don't get shot nearly as much. The SIG holds up better under hard use. Does the LCP hold up "well enough", yes... most people buying one will never put 100 rounds through it. So, for the most part, this actually is irrelevant.

And the LCP, while being smaller and lighter, is not significantly so. They're both very compact pistols. It's like splitting hairs between a Ruger LCR and a S&W Bodyguard.

They're both excellent at the job they propose to do... but when they both intend to fill the same role, they must be compared. The general public does so on a daily basis... the LCP and the P238 are fighting over the exact same group of customers. Probably three times per day I show people the LCP and the P238 side by side, because they're the two pistols they are considering for a pocket gun.

For me, the shorter reset, the existence of useable sights, and a lock back on an empty magazine makes the P238 the better choice of the two. The miniscule increase in weight, for me, does not offset these boons. The added expense definitely hurts, but when it comes to firearms, especially those for personal protection, I prefer to just save up and get what I actually want (within reason).



As for a side-by-side with the Kimber Solo.... that would require that someone actually have a Kimber Solo to put beside the P938.
I would totally disagree with with your statement of inferior mechanism. There is a reason that DOA guns are more popular for concealed carry than SAO guns. Many people, being the general public, are not comfortable carrying a gun cocked and locked. Yes, some people do prefer it, that does not make it superior. Some would argue, in a high stress, defensive situation a SAO gun with a manual safety could get you hurt or even killed. I am not here to argue that point, it has been discussed else where to great extent. In practicality a SAO trigger pull will allow for higher level of precision work, for target/ competition shooting , a level not required in a defensive situation.
As far your minor difference in weight comment goes, I would be more comfortable carrying a 9.90 oz. LCP in my jean's pocket vs. a 15.2 oz. P238. when is last time you put a pound of anything in your pocket. Now that almost half pound weight difference would not matter as much if using a IWB holster.

[lamarbrog]

I would totally disagree with with your statement of inferior mechanism. There is a reason that DOA guns are more popular for concealed carry than SAO guns. Many people, being the general public, are not comfortable carrying a gun cocked and locked. Yes, some people do prefer it, that does not make it superior. Some would argue, in a high stress, defensive situation a SAO gun with a manual safety could get you hurt or even killed. I am not here to argue that point, it has been discussed else where to great extent. In practicality a SAO trigger pull will allow for higher level of precision work, for target/ competition shooting , a level not required in a defensive situation.
As far your minor difference in weight comment goes, I would be more comfortable carrying a 9.90 oz. LCP in my jean's pocket vs. a 15.2 oz. P238. when is last time you put a pound of anything in your pocket. Now that almost half pound weight difference would not matter as much if using a IWB holster.

The mechanism is inferior from a trigger pull perspective. That's why I said "inferior in regards to trigger pull". Just because it has other advantages, does not mean that "long, heavy trigger pull and long reset" are not disadvantages.

So what you're saying is a P238 is too accurate for defensive shooting? I'm not a great shot, but I do alright... and I consider the existence of practical sights and a manageable trigger to be HUGE benefits in a defensive shooting scenario. I'd dare to say that, beyond absolute contact distance, attempting to defend yourself with an LCP is too risky to bystanders to be justifiable. I've seen a LOT of people shoot Ruger LCPs- personally owned and our rentals. I can't really say anyone has ever shot one well.

As for weight, I guess it just doesn't seem like much to me since I'm accustomed to carrying a Beretta 92FS, a spare magazine, and a Leatherman MUT while I'm at work. When you carry that around most of the day, almost anything feels light. I am admittedly biased in this department as a result.

[Jack Kardic]

I have a p238 and I love it. It's my back-up normally, but I use it as my primary when dress doesn't permit my 5" XD a place to hide. I'd love to have something of a similar size with a bit more power. The spring strength isn't an issue for me, neither is the recoil. If the 938 compares to other subcompact 9mm's the way the 238 compares to other .380's, I'd choose it over all of them any day. The second time I had to use a weapon the p238 was all I had and she performed flawlessly. With good shot placement and proper defensive loads a .380 is entirely sufficient to stop even a drugged threat, but that doesn't mean I don't want one in 9mm!