High End Uppers/SBR build

[itschris]

I'm currently waiting for my stamp, and have started tyring to figure out which upper to go with. I've spared no expense on my lower, Noveske, Giessele trigger, BAD ASS safety, etc.

I'm considering the Noveske branded Vltor VIS 10.5 monolithic upper. Some of have recommended to go with the switchblock Noveske barrel. I've read that a 10.5" will run open or suppressed with no problems so I'm wondering why I should consider tht route.

Other uppers I've considered are the LMT MRP, the Daniel Defense MK18 (10.3), The PWC piston rig, or just building it myself with the Noveske upper receiver I have. Either way, all things considered, the price will be about the same for every option... about $1000-$1200 so I'm not concerned about save a $100 bucks here or there.

I knmow a lot of people say to stay away from the KX3 that comes on the VIS upper, but I've always wanted to own that thing. Even though it'll eventually get replaced with a can, I kinda like the idea of finally owning one. I posted over on AR15.com and have gotten a lot of good feedback, but I'm curious if folks over here have different thoughts on the uppers and which ones provide advantages I may want to consider.

[markm]

The KX3 makes no sense in that even if you run it on a barrel so short that it helps gas pressure, you'd just be better off with the additional Barrel length and velocity and dwell time that goes with it.

[itschris]

The KX3 makes no sense in that even if you run it on a barrel so short that it helps gas pressure, you'd just be better off with the additional Barrel length and velocity and dwell time that goes with it.


I've had time with several rifles with a KX3 ranging from 10.5 to 12.5. I don't see why everyone thinks it's useless. What's so bad about it... i know it heavy, but it doesn't bother me in the least. Like I said, it'll get replaced once I get my can but until then, I think it would just be kinda cool to have one. It's not a huge investment and I can always get rid of it if I really want to. Seeing that they're pretty much out of stock all the time, I shouldn't have a problem getting rid of it. I know there may be other options out there that make a lot more sense, but this particular part it more of a "I just want it" decision more so than anything else. If I go with a different upper other than the VIS, which I'm leaning towards, then it'll likely not make it on the build as the other upers have different hiders/brakes.

[Hmac]

KX3? Each to their own view of what's cool. I gather you weren't seeking an opinion on that. Any functional advantage it would provide for me is significantly outweighed by its weight. Personally I'd rather have a BattleComp. THAT item does provide me with functionality I can see.

As to uppers, I have a couple of SBRs, both on Noveske matched uppers/lowers. They work fine. I also have a 16 inch Light Recce Basic w/VIS. The VIS is cool and all, but it's kind of heavy and I have yet to realistically see any functional advantage a monolithic upper provides me compared to the DD Lite or the MOE that I have on the SBRs. Personally, I wouldn't do the VIS again. I'd rather save the weight and the money.

[itschris]

KX3? Each to their own view of what's cool. I gather you weren't seeking an opinion on that. Any functional advantage it would provide for me is significantly outweighed by its weight. Personally I'd rather have a BattleComp. THAT item does provide me with functionality I can see.

As to uppers, I have a couple of SBRs, both on Noveske matched uppers/lowers. They work fine. I also have a 16 inch Light Recce Basic w/VIS. The VIS is cool and all, but it's kind of heavy and I have yet to realistically see any functional advantage a monolithic upper provides me compared to the DD Lite or the MOE that I have on the SBRs. Personally, I wouldn't do the VIS again. I'd rather save the weight and the money.

I have the Noveske upper receiver. My thoght if I build it myself it would be a Noveske barrel (still don't know about whether to go switchblock or not), DD Rail, and either an LMT, DD, or maybe a chrome Ranier Arms BCG. I'd probably go with an AAC flash hider in anticpation of the a can. I'd like to stick with a 10" rail and I don't know how the switchblock fits under some rails. I know the Spike's BAR rail is made with a really large inside diameter (1.79") but I'd rather not have any Spider logos on my build. I'd like to still with either DD or even Troy for my rail. I have a Troy on my S&W M&P and I'd say it's rock solid and a quality piece. The machining isn't as nice as the DD, but it's been a solid rail on that rifle.

[Rodman24]

I'd like to stick with a 10" rail and I don't know how the switchblock fits under some rails.

A 10" rail won't work on a 10.5" barrel. And if you want a SB, the rail length will be dictated by the gas system, as the SB will not fit under a rail. If you'll note on the Noveske website, the 10.5" upper comes with a 9.5" rail and the necessary cut out for the Switchblock.

[itschris]

Didn't think so. I really want a 10" rail. I have really broad shoulders and long arms. I'm 6' 1" and I feel too bunched up with the smaller rails.

[Rodman24]

With respect, I'm not sure I understand what you're goals are for this build. Since you're building your first SBR, I would assume you're a bit obsessed with going as short as you can (I must admit to that myself).

Given that you're interested in the Switchblock, I would assume that you're looking to suppress. But you're also talking about the KX3, so it appears that you're in the market for two uppers. [:D]

I would suggest that if you're looking for something short, that isn't intended to be suppressed, and needs a 10" rail, you might want to go with an 11.5" or 12.5". And if you want to put a KX3 on it... have at it.

For my first SBR, my goal was for a suppressed upper with an OAL that was no greater than my 16" carbine.

I recently completed a 12.5" with a 10" Lite rail and I am enjoying that quite a bit. That might be what you're looking for, but it's hard to tell.

Keep looking around and try to clarify what you're wanting out of this upper. The beauty is that you can always build another.

[itschris]

I definately want a 10.5 for this build. I'm not going to get my suppressor until I get my upper. It'll take some time again to get my stamp so in the meantime if I go with the Noveske VIS, it comes with the KX3. While some have suggested ditching it, I'm saying I'm fine with it until i switch over to the can.

I'm not convinced about the switchblock, plus it limits me to a shorter rail or a spikes BAR rail...neither of which I want.

My main question was are there any advantages that one of my options has over the other.

[Jer]

I've got on of these (http://www.lmtstore.com/monolithic-rail-platforms-mrp-cqb/cqb-mrp-piston-top-end-12-semi-auto.html) with very low round count that I'm going to part ways with for cash consideration if you're interested.

[WarriorArms]

I have a few of these (https://warrior-arms.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=24&product_id=149) in use with local Law Enforcement agencies. They love the versatility because they can snap the suppressor on and keep shooting without making any changes. There is no switch blocks or gas blocks that need adjusted. They are a breeze to clean, even after shooting suppressed. Alot of guys are die hard traditionalists who won't have anything but DI guns, but I found in certain applications, piston uppers are the way to go.

[rob_s]

The KX3 makes no sense in that even if you run it on a barrel so short that it helps gas pressure, you'd just be better off with the additional Barrel length and velocity and dwell time that goes with it.

Can you verify that Mathis is true? I'd like to know how much back pressure the KX3 produces and how much back pressure the same length of barrel produces. You must have those numbers to make that post, right?

Additionally, the KX3 has another benefit for those shooting around others and that is to throw the blast more forward. Even in a class environment this is noticeable.

[markm]

Can you verify that Mathis is true? I'd like to know how much back pressure the KX3 produces and how much back pressure the same length of barrel produces. You must have those numbers to make that post, right?

No no no no... I have no idea what back pressure impact that stupid thing gives the gun. The point is it's not a thinking shooters gadget. If a barrel is 10.3 and you have whatever additional length that the stupid KX3 adds.... (plus the weight)... it make no sense. Get rid of the thing and run a 12.5 or whatever equalized barrel length you'd have... you pick up velocity, and shed useless weight.

As far as blast... If people don't want a loud gun, shoot air rifles or something.

[Stickman]

Additionally, the KX3 has another benefit for those shooting around others and that is to throw the blast more forward. Even in a class environment this is noticeable.

I think that is the larger benefit.

[itschris]

I dropped this whole discussion for a while since my stamp wasn't coming as quick I though. But now, they're saying October. So, here's where I'm at on this...

I don't think I'm going to go with the VIS. I've talked a enough folks and had some up close time with it. I don't really see the advantages as being sufficient to warrant the extra cost over other solutions. Lately, there have been a couple new rails that have larger inside diameters that will accomodate a suppressor (my next purchase - but one that will likely take several months to actually get in my hands with the next stamp wiait) . Rainier Arms has a nice rail that's got a 1.56" inside diameter. That'll shroud most of the cans out there and opens up alternatives like reflex style cans. It also allows me to have a slightly longer rail on a 10.5 as it comes in 11" . I've seend the setup used with the KX3 and it covers it a little bit, but works fine. I like the extra inch of hand space.

Now getting back quickly to the KX3. I probably wasn't terribly clear as I wasn't expecting the "chime in" on the PIG. Whatever muzzle device I get will be shortlived since I'm going to purchase a can as soon as I get my upper and get the rifle running reliably. In FL, assuming I can get the can I want, I'm looking 8 months from the time I send the paperwork. So... in the meantime, I cna have whatever brake I want. Initially, the upper I wanted... the VIS came with the KX3. So that's where it pretty much started. On the other hand, I actually like the KX3. The weight does not bother me and having had some time with it on a 10.5, I like the way it feels. I think it provides a feel or point of reference of the muzzle ... almost like a hood ornament. Swinging the gun from target to target had an added awareness to it with the weight in the front. I certainly don't think it's the end all/be all but I like it and it certainly doesn't bother me the way it bothers others. I just don't have a problem with it.

So it's likely that as I build my upper, I'll probably get one for no other reason than because I want to. Right now, it's looking like I'm going to stay with my Noveske upper, get the a 10.5 Noveske barrel, Rainier Arms 11" rail, probably a Rainier Arms chrome bolt (i've come to like the ease of cleaning), a BCM Gunfighter charging handle, Troy BUIS, and 1.5x ACOG (green circle ret). That's pretty much where I'm at right now and feel good about the build.

[WarriorArms]

That's pretty much where I'm at right now and feel good about the build.

That is the most important part of any build. What makes YOU happy, what do YOU like...doesn't matter what everyone else likes or thinks is cool. Thats what is so great about this platform. You can customize it to what suits you the best. Run with it...have fun building and shooting it! [:D]

[itschris]

Yeah it's a lot more fun when impatience isn't driving your decision making. I just realized that I'm not going to get anything for months while I wait, so dont' rush into anything.

[AZSBR]

I'm building a SBR here is part one.

1. Seekins Precision

http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx36/delgadoaz/Decorated%20images/Guns/20130301_164418.jpg

[itschris]

I realized I never got back to putting up a pic of the finished SBR. Thanks to everyone for the great advice... especially Stick who I've peppered with questions here and on other forums for a few years.

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo40/itschriss/AR/NoveskeSBR1a_zps8d6f924b.jpg

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo40/itschriss/AR/NoveskeSBR4a_zps3230a802.jpg

[Stickman]

Looks good, how does she shoot?

[itschris]

I haven't been able to get to the range for awhile. Between getting my daughter off to college, knee surgery, life in general... the time just goes by. As soon as I read your post, it really donned on me that's been about 6 or 7 months since I've gotten to the range.

Not that it's the same, but I have slinged up and practiced with dry-firing and running around with it. The 10.5" is perfect. The KX3 is nice and really seems to give its own unique point of reference to where the business end of the rifle is at all times.

Now that I have a few thousand rounds stockpiled, I need to make time to get out and go. I've got to get it zeroed in and all that. Speaking of which... I'm assuming for the TA33 it's a 100 yard zero on the center dot (horseshoe ret) ... correct? I've never seen any chart that has the rest of the hold overs on the ret. I've also got the new Burris MTAC 1.5X-6X-40mm on my other rifle and need to get that dialed in.

I'm assuming you shoot quite a bit. Is the ammo shortage affecting your range time?

[AceTacArms]

Hi..have you see the LWRC or PWS uppers ?

[eodinert]

Most of the gucci uppers don't have any performance gains, so just buying a quality upper is a better deal IMO. I wouldn't put a rail over a rifle can even for an inch, though... those things get crazy hot. The rail will not protect your hand enough if you run it hard. If you want more real estate, get a longer barrel. Your suppressor will work better too.