Looking for opinions on the Nightforce NXS 1-4x24

[AR-10]

I am almost done with my bench gun and am currently in the market for a variable power scope.

In a perfect world I would be ordering a Short Dot, but I don't have that kind of coin to drop right now and I am an impatient bastard so saving up is out of the question.

So, I'm taking a hard look at the NXS w/mil-dots and it's looking like a good alternative to the S&B.

Any of y'all got any trigger time behind one of these Nightforce scopes? Please let me know what you think of it.

Here's the new middy, just need a gas block and a brake and it will finally be finished:

http://i43.tinypic.com/vjs49.jpg

[Aragorn]

I had a 1-4 with the FC-2 reticle. Ran it on a standard length bobro mount. I had it mounted and indexed on the upper receiver with maybe a quarter inch (of the mount) extending onto the forend, and the optic was slid as far back in the mount as it would go. I don't shoot NTCH, but I do get close and I had more than enough eye relief to be comfortable.

The optic would clear my troy folding sights with room to spare to long as I didn't use the crappy NF scope caps. The caps are soft rubber, big and bulky and slow to close again. I put butler creek flip ups on instead and all became well with the world again.

I used the FC-2 reticle and loved it. It's clean, it's crisp, and for a magnified scope it felt very fast.

Length and weight-wise, it's one of the trimmer scope's available.

The magnification ring is stiff to turn, I used a cat tail to speed things up.

Only con I really had with it was that on 1x power it did seem to fishbowl very slightly (though it went away at higher powers) and that it didn't appear to be a true 1x. Things were slightly magnified and when I flipped up the front sight it was huge. Maybe that was just due to the proximity of the sight to the objective, but I don't know. I think the 1x setting is probably closer to 1.1 or 1.2x

I originally bought it thinking that having the versatility to go from no power to 4 power would be a boon. I chose the nxs due to the weight and reticle and nightforce's reputation. I sold it because I found I actually prefer ACOG's.

[Army Chief]

My impressions mirror those of Aragorn's, with the following exceptions:

- LaRue mount, instead of Bobro (in a perfect world, I would actually prefer the latter).
- Samson BUIS. Same problem with the stock NF lens covers, though.
- Also very much like the FC-2. It gets maligned for daylight visibility under illumination, but in actual usage this is pretty much a non-issue for me.
- Also use a cattail, and for the same reason.
- Agree that it is probably closer to 1.1x, but again, this is to be expected, and not a serious consideration.
- Still have mine, though I do like ACOGs when variability isn't essential.

I own a S&B 1.5-4x Zenith FlashDot, and can certainly attest to the quality of S&B optics; that said, for the money, I do think the NF is a very solid proposition. You may eventually find something that you like better, but the NXS honestly doesn't leave a lot to be desired, and the quality is about as good as it gets for domestic glass.

AC

[Paulo_Santos]

Are you sure you only want a 1x4 on a bench gun?

[AR-10]

snip


snip

Thanks for the input, both of you. Interesting that you are getting a fishbowl effect when this scope is supposed to be a true 1x. Also interesting that you both went with the FC-2 reticle, I am used to mil-dots which is why I was leaning towards the other reticle.


Are you sure you only want a 1x4 on a bench gun?

No, I'm not. Like everything else with these rifles, you do research and talk to as many shooters as possible and just when you think you know what you want, something changes your mind.

I originally was looking at an ACOG but started thinking it would be nice to have something that can handle medium range work and still be good at close range which is why I am now looking at variable scopes - I'm not crazy about the idea of 4x all the time, and mounting a mini RDS on top of an ACOG makes for a system that is too tall for my liking.

If I could afford an S&B, the option would be on the table but I have one more rifle on the back burner and it's a .308 which means it's going to bleed me dry so I just can't do it right now.

The Nightforce I can do, and could even save a few hundred if I went with an ACOG so I don't know what to do now.

[Paulo_Santos]

Personally, a rifle like that is screaming for a 3x9 scope. There are plenty of affordable options, such as the Super Sniper.

[15ICAM]

I had a NF 1-4x24 with MILDOT and did not like it. The reason is that I found MILDOT reticle was too fine to use quickly at 1x and thus slowed me down considerably especially on dark targets. I would have gone with the FC-2 on this scope if I had to do it again.

[AR-10]

Yeah, seems everyone I talk to says the same thing - go with the FC-2.

Paulo, you have trigger time behind one of those SWFA scopes?

How is that 3x at shorter ranges?

[JGifford]

I hate to necro...but it shows that I know how to use the search feature :P

It's been a few years since this thread obviously, and I am now considering a Nightforce 1-4X.

My VCOG en devour was a huge failure, and I'd like to not repeat it.

Things that matter to me:

Is the reticle CRISP at 1X at say, 10 feet, or is the reticle or target, one, blurry? The VCOG did this and I didn't like it. If you adjusted diopter to fix that, it was blurry at all other magnifications/distances. Does the NSX have this issue, or is the lower spread of 1-4 instead of 1-6 going to cover/prevent that diopter shift?

Will the illumination overpower my M600 Ultra 500 lumen WML at night (I know it's not daylight visible, but the FC-3G reticle is FAST!).

In the daylight, with illumination maxed, if I am looking to a dark window or door, will I then (while the reticle is over the black recess/shadow) see the illumination, or will I get total black-out and have no POA?

Are there any bugs with this thing? (Flickering illumination, magnification walks during use, some other issue?)

How is the eyebox compared to the VCOG or the 1-6 Razor HD or the Leupold MK6? I have experience with those.

Thanks!

[GOST]

I'm in the market for a variable power optic also, looking forward to reading the responses you get.

[SINNER]

I have a NXS 1-4 and honestly as long as these Steiners are around for what they are selling for I will likely not purchase another. The NF is a fantastic optic but the Steiner is better for less. No brainier.

http://mobile.eurooptic.com/steiner1x-4x-24mm-dm1-rifle-scope.aspx

Damn went to grab a link and now these are down to 699.00. They were a steal at $800.

[JGifford]

*sigh*
I'm just going to eat Ramen for a month or so. This solves all issues and involves no compromising.

http://www.westernshooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Kahles-K16i-1-6x24.jpg

[Slippers]

I'd love to have one of those. Nice snag. :)

[JGifford]

I'd love to have one of those. Nice snag. :)

Not snagged yet. I'm going to have to eat the Ramen for a month or so.

[JGifford]

More research into it, and I am now more torn than ever. NF is probably the route I'm going to go, simply because they don't break. The Z6i and Kahles? They are AMAZING, but I have dug enough to know that some people have broken them when the NSX has held up to amazing amounts of abuse. There is a reason it's a NAVSPEC/issued optic.

[SINNER]

Kahles reticles need to catch up with the optical quality of their products. I do like my NF optics but they are no more or no less durable than any other. 2 out of 4 I have owned went back for issues. And honestly I do not abuse hardly any of my weapons.

[JGifford]

Kahles reticles need to catch up with the optical quality of their products. I do like my NF optics but they are no more or no less durable than any other. 2 out of 4 I have owned went back for issues. And honestly I do not abuse hardly any of my weapons.

What optics and what issues did you have and when (production year)?

[SINNER]

My 3.5-15x50 had issues with the illumination twice. After it failed the second time the optic was replaced. The other one was a 2.5-10x42 that internally fogged on a hunt in the Rockies. That one really hurt my trust in their optics, partially due to how poorly they handled the issue. I no longer own either of those optics. My 1-4 and 5.5-22 have been flawless but I have not purchased another since the 2.5-10 issues. I much prefer the clarity and reticles of the Steiners over the NF anyway.

[JGifford]

My 3.5-15x50 had issues with the illumination twice. After it failed the second time the optic was replaced. The other one was a 2.5-10x42 that internally fogged on a hunt in the Rockies. That one really hurt my trust in their optics, partially due to how poorly they handled the issue. I no longer own either of those optics. My 1-4 and 5.5-22 have been flawless but I have not purchased another since the 2.5-10 issues. I much prefer the clarity and reticles of the Steiners over the NF anyway.

Illumination...whatever, but fogging internally and poor CS are pretty "ouch". *sigh*
I guess I might as well sack up and buy a K16i. The thing really is like having the world delivered to your face in HD. The SM1 reticle isn't too "bad", minus lack of wind holds, but that's not really necessary for my use.

[SINNER]

Illumination...whatever, but fogging internally and poor CS are pretty "ouch". *sigh*
I guess I might as well sack up and buy a K16i. The thing really is like having the world delivered to your face in HD. The SM1 reticle isn't too "bad", minus lack of wind holds, but that's not really necessary for my use.

Call me crazy but the illumination failing is a big deal to me. ANY failure on a optic approaching 2k is unacceptable in my opinion. I know things happen but when you wait 8 weeks for an optic back and the same problem occurs after the 3rd shot on an issue they claimed was a one in a million chance of happening in the first place I become real skeptical.

[JGifford]

Call me crazy but the illumination failing is a big deal to me. ANY failure on a optic approaching 2k is unacceptable in my opinion. I know things happen but when you wait 8 weeks for an optic back and the same problem occurs after the 3rd shot on an issue they claimed was a one in a million chance of happening in the first place I become real skeptical.

I understand and agree. What I meant was, it wouldn't deadline the optic. Maybe a 3.5-15, but not the FC-3G reticle. Fogging would flat-out deadline it. Period.

I have to say, though, the 1-4 NF NXS is still a heavy contender for me, to be honest. It is the most durable optic I have found based on "the stats" (1250g's fore/aft. ACOG's only endure I think 1,100g's in testing), it's waterproof to 100 feet, and it has a locking diopter and capped turrets. It simply seems like a tank, to me. As I understand it, the reticle works fine day or night behind a WML without illumination necessary.

That said, the more fragile scopes do offer daylight bright illumination.

This is turning into a tough call for my "do all" optic and carbine.

[JGifford]

Well, I ended up buying a Comp M4s aimpoint. I think I will buy a 2.5-10X NF later. Put them both in Bobro mounts, and swap them around for what I need. I simply do not think a tube-style optic can compete with an RDS for effectiveness 0-50 yards from various shooting positions in various lighting conditions.

I did test out an LCO, SRS, and PRO back to back, at SWFA, which is what led to me buying the Comp.

[gatordev]

Out of curiosity, what was it that the M4s did that the PRO didn't do (other than cost a bit more)?

[Molon]

Optic Observations (1 - 4X Variable Scopes)



Bright light! Bright light!

The pic below shows a view looking through an Aimpoint M4S with its illumination at the highest setting. The target in the view has two very bright, white photography lights shining on it from a distance of less than 2 feet; basically the brightest ambient light that I was able to produce indoors.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/7c88uqst45.jpg




Now, here is a pic using the exact same setup of lights and target, except this time the optic used is a Schmidt & Bender Short Dot LE.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/slju53vq6o.jpg




Here are the two views, side by side.



http://www.box.net/shared/static/5mi25hruka.jpg




Horton Sees a Hue

The pic below shows a view looking through a Short Dot LE with the magnification set at 1.1X. The chimney in the middle of the view is approximately 100 yards away. Notice the orange leaves and bricks, the green shingles and the white and yellow aluminum siding. Also notice that the only hue, in the view, that remotely resembles a shade of blue, is the small patch of sky near 3 o’clock.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/y2djx5630q.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/vmnqzqiv98.jpg




Colors

There has been a lot of bandwidth devoted to the color of reticles as of late, particularly the color green. Pictured below is a view through a Trijicon TR24-G, which has the green triangle reticle. The scope is “aimed” at a target that is 25 feet away, in a pitch dark room!




http://www.box.net/shared/static/579h6dl8ar.jpg




Here is the same view, only this time looking through a Trijicon TR24-R, which has the red triangle reticle.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/bcagzqfbtt.jpg




Both views, side by side.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/odk9vj75fa.jpg




Now, here are the same scopes, in the same set-up, with the only thing different being a switched-on SureFire X300 white light attached to the left rail of the handguard.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/hx6a41svsp.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/r1tsrd8ara.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/ituye7mr5i.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/lnzxv1sl3p.jpg




Radioactive.

The major weakness of most optics that utilize tritium and fiber optics to illuminate the reticle has been the “washing out” of the reticle when aiming into a brightly lit area from a dark area. The Trijicon TR24 series of Accupoints has vastly improved this situation, although not completely eliminated it.

The view below is looking through a TR24-G that is in a darkened area of the house, looking into a brightly lit area. As you can see, the fiber optics are not being fed enough light to brightly illuminate the reticle and the tritium is having a hard time overcoming the brightness of the target area. The reticle is certainly still usable, although not ideal.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/tee6552o2y.jpg




This is the type of situation in which scopes with battery powered illuminated reticles really shine (no pun intended.) The next picture shows the same set-up as above, but looking through a NightForce NXS 1-4 x 24 at 1X magnification with the illumination on.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/ldni3n0ehq.jpg




Again the same set-up, this time looking through a Short Dot LE at 1.1X magnification with the illumination on.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/hbpuda4sk1.jpg





The Ruler of Truth

Pictured below is a view of an Aimpoint M4S with a metal ruler running through its field of view and beyond. Notice that the lines formed by the top and bottom edges of the ruler continue uninterrupted when passing through the Aimpoint’s field of view. Notice that the numbers and graduation marks are the exact same size, both inside the Aimpoint’s field of view and out. This is “true” 1X magnification; that is to say, no magnification at all.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/58pd7y9c7g.jpg




The next view has the ruler running through the field of view of an EOTech HoloSight. Again, the lines of the ruler continue uninterrupted and the ruler remains the exact same size inside the EOTech’s fied of view and out.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/vq6utzjd7i.jpg




Now, let’s apply the Ruler of Truth to what many here have called a “true 1X” optic, the Trijicon Accupoint TR24-R. The magnification ring is set to 1X in the view below.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/jh4aayxniz.jpg





As you can clearly see, the lines formed by the edges of the ruler are shifted when running through the field of view of the TR24-R and the ruler is clearly larger inside the field of view of the TR24-R; that is to say, the ruler is MAGNIFIED.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/r8hyxavoyl.jpg




The Ruler of Truth applied to a NightForce 1- 4 x 24 NXS with the magnification ring set to 1X reveals the same findings.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/1377knqo8b.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/cdpf2qdn1k.jpg




The Ruler of Truth applied to a Short Dot LE with the magnification ring set to 1.1X shows little difference from the NightForce NXS on 1X.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/m7ck5sbbz9.jpg




http://www.box.net/shared/static/en9lqsv308.jpg




In truth, since the “true 1X” scopes are not truly without magnification in the truest sense of the word like an Aimpoint or EOTech, the only thing that truly matters is, can these optics be easily used with human binocular vision; that is, both eyes opened and focused on the target at the same time? The answer is a resounding yes, just as it is with the Short Dot LE at 1.1X magnification.




Focus On The Front Sight


Here's a view of the front sight when looking through an Aimpoint M4S.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/2xkb5uv154.jpg




This view is looking through a NightForce NXS 1-4 x 24 at 1X magnification.




http://www.box.net/shared/static/07belpyc4t.jpg




12 O'Clock High



http://www.box.net/shared/static/3fvvvc6ad0.jpg




Weighing In


Trijicon TR24 with LaRue SPR-E mount:

1 pound, 6 ounces



Aimpoint M4S combined with Aimpoint 3X magnifier, both in LaRue mounts:

1 pound 6.8 ounces




NightForce 1- 4 x 24 NXS with LaRue SPR-S mount:

1 pound, 7.5 ounces



Schmidt & Bender Short Dot LE with a LaRue SPR-E mount:

1 pound, 11.1 ounces




…..

[Slippers]

Molon,

I've posted in response to this before. You might consider revising your ruler of truth section.

Some of the 1-4/1-6 scopes really are 1x at their lowest magnification. The reason the ruler is larger when looking through them at close range is due to the objective lens being closer by the length of the scope. It's the same as if you moved your head 12" closer without a scope; the ruler would appear larger.

This is more noticeable if an object is 2 feet away. It is not noticeable at longer distances. Try putting the ruler at 15 feet and doing the same test. :)

[JGifford]

Out of curiosity, what was it that the M4s did that the PRO didn't do (other than cost a bit more)?

It took a AA lithium and weighed about the same once the mount was included. To me, that made it better, so I bought it.

That said, while I love the COMP and will keep it, I am probably going to go back to the T2/G33 combo for my "do all" carbine. I simply have not found anything that beats it.

[gatordev]

Gotcha. I guess with how infrequently I have to change a PRO battery, it seems like a wash to me, given the price, but commonality can definitely be important.

[JGifford]

I got a chance to handle the NF 1-4x FC-3G today.

I experienced none of the diopter shift that I did with the VCOG until I tried to look at something 2-3 feet away. Literally at the muzzle distance almost. In short, the optic had no real shift from 1x to 4x that was tangible. The reticle and target were both crystal clear and in the same plane of focus at 1x up close, and at 4x across the street.

The illumination was dimmer than I had even thought it would be, especially given Molon's photos. Indoors, you could tell it was on when set to "MAX" and aimed at something black. This was with overhead florescent lights, in a typical "indoor" type setting at the gun-store. It was not operating-room bright, nor was it as dim as some living-rooms. Just well lit. Aiming it at something light colored, the dot was black. Only the center dot illuminates.

At 1x, there was a bit of "fish-eye" feeling, as parallax was very noticeable. Not enough to cause a miss unless you're shooting at golf-balls across the dining-room from unconventional positions, but it was noticeable. Kindof like driving a sports car with the tires 3-4psi lower than they should be. It wasn't a safety issue on the regular highway, but it just felt...off a touch. The eyebox was decent. It was not bad, but not good. Really almost escaped my notice except to test it out. What I liked, is that on 1x, it was reasonably difficult to totally obscure the use of the scope. You could "shade" it if you weren't in the eyebox pretty solid, but I could even hold it out at arms length and still see about 50-60% of the diameter of the occular full of sight picture. Easily you could punch out from the prone with your carbine and use it as such no problem with a touch of practice.

I personally found the smaller reticle (it's not super bold/thick like some, such as SWFA's 1-4) and dim illumination to be what soured the deal for me. It certainly would be blazing fast on white IPSC targets or whatever, but in a complex environment with varying lighting, I feel like the reticle would present the possibility of getting washed like an ACOG reticle, except it never was 1/10th as bright to begin with.That is the deal killer for me, here, is 1X performance. It's just lacking in complex environments, IMO.

Optically, I do not feel that the T2/G33 combo give up much to the Nightforce. If the NF is an 8/10 optically, I'd say the T2/G33 would rank a 6.5-7/10. I plan on buying another T2/G33 instead of the NF, after handing one. It is a great optic, but it just doesn't offer the utility of the T2 across a room. Not by a long shot. Also, the weight of the T2 and G33 in mounts is = to the NF by itself.

[JGifford]

Well, I bounced back again on my opinion. Mainly because I found a new-old-stock FC-2 reticle NXS w/PTL. I'm going to see how I like it. Put $500 down on it today, and next paycheck plan on taking her home. I really think the FC-2 reticle with its larger illuminated area, simpler form-factor, and larger reticle will be the ticket. If not, it will be a great optic for resale, because the FC-2 is immensely popular, many prefer it over the FC-3G, and NF only made the FC-2 with the new PTL integrated into the scope for one year (2013 production). So, resale should not hurt, especially considering I did not pay retail as it was old-stock. Win/win/win. Risk free trial!

[JGifford]

Since noone seems to have these photos, I took a few. My new Nightforce 1-4 NXS with FC-2 reticle arrived, and out came the cheap potato to document! All photos are with illumination set on "Max" unless otherwise noted. This should give a good idea of what one can expect in nearly every lighting environment one will encounter at night. Daylight pictures will have to wait for a bit, for technical reasons.


White wall, 3 meters, illumination off, 800 lumen bulbs (x2) behind white ceiling light diffuser:
http://i61.tinypic.com/riukvm.jpg
White wall, 3 meters, illumination on, 800 lumen bulbs (x2) behind white ceiling light diffuser:
http://i57.tinypic.com/mc3jhf.jpg
White wall, 3 meters, Surefire M600 Ultra (500 lumen) providing illumination, series:
http://i61.tinypic.com/2cxb2g3.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/30kyctz.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/p6qhj.jpg
Standing in living-room, standard residential brightness (to my eyes), unsure of lumens of bulb(s). 1X, aiming across parkinglot at door 50m distant:
http://i57.tinypic.com/nowtwg.jpg
Standing in living-room, standard residential brightness (to my eyes), unsure of lumens of bulb(s). 4X, aiming across parkinglot at door 50m distant:
http://i60.tinypic.com/11t95ag.jpg
Gas station, approximately 150m, 1x:
http://i62.tinypic.com/2qwdeuw.jpg
Gas station, approximately 150m, 4x:
http://i59.tinypic.com/333y0j6.jpg
Dark parkinglot into lit apartment, distance to door @ 10m:
http://i57.tinypic.com/33y5gkz.jpg
Overcast with light rain, 1x, full illumination, Jeep@150 yards:
http://i59.tinypic.com/2w1v5sx.jpg
Overcast with light rain, 4x, full illumination, Jeep@150 yards:
http://i59.tinypic.com/2prgydg.jpg
Overcast with light rain, 1x, no illumination, Jeep@150 yards:
http://i58.tinypic.com/2eeiepw.jpg
Overcast with light rain, 4x, no illumination, Jeep@150 yards:
http://i59.tinypic.com/vii59y.jpg


Very pleased so far. Here is a picture for size/scale. I have not bought a mount for it yet, although I'm working on a deal for the one I want.
http://i58.tinypic.com/2mgtnxx.jpg

-I do notice a tiny bit of magnification on 1x. It is functionally a non-issue, and there is no phoria.

-Everything is tough. The diopter adjustment locks, the scope and all adjustments feel very "robust".

-The glass is very very good. Not Kahles, but VERY good.

-Light transmission on 1x at night is very good. It is similar to the un-aided eye. Not darker, certainly.

-I noticed NONE of the diopter shift issues that I had with the VCOG. On 1x across the room it looks good, at 4x across the parkinglot it looks good...blurry smartphone pix not withstanding.

[Bronco75]

I am using an NXS 2.5-10 on my KAC LPR and it's perfect.

This is also hot off the press from NF as of yesterday....if you want to get all NAVSPECWAR on that ass....

http://www.nightforceoptics.com/news/nxs-2-5-10x24-limitedrelease

[UWone77]

I am using an NXS 2.5-10 on my KAC LPR and it's perfect.

This is also hot off the press from NF as of yesterday....if you want to get all NAVSPECWAR on that ass....

http://www.nightforceoptics.com/news/nxs-2-5-10x24-limitedrelease

Man that x24 optic is so unforgiving though.

[Bronco75]

Man that x24 optic is so unforgiving though.

Mine is a 42 objective...I was willing to trade more light for looks....plus I wanted the Velocity 600 reticle....I have only used this one and that 32 you have...they have not made the 24 for civilians for a while and the older ones were going for a premium because the guys building clones were swallowing them up