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View Full Version : Mega getting out of the monolithic game???



jdhill
18 July 2012, 17:59
Just read on gear scout Mega was stepping out of the monolithic upper game due to patent issues with LMT... does anyone have any insight on if this is just the quadrail, or the tubular uppers too? 7.62 only, or 5.56 too?

ETA - I have to say this is sad news...

kattman
19 July 2012, 01:46
Damn I hope not---waiting on two 5.56 tubular rifle length, and a tubular MA-TEN set. Already have 1 rifle, two mids, and three carbine in the tubular version. Its kind of like the Stag 3G or the Samson Evolution in shape, but you don't have to dick around clocking the frickin barrel nut. Also have the ADAMS ARMS competition piston upper that comes with the custom MEGA tubular MRP. Dumping all my VFG's and going with the AFG's with a thumb wrap around. The smallish tubular OD makes this quite comfortable. Really like the tubulars!!

Kattman from Michigan

jdhill
19 July 2012, 06:54
Have now received confirmation from a few sources, including a forward of a message from Mega to dealers... they are pulling the plug on their monolithic line... hopefully just for now. I was planning a build or two based on tubulars, so this is very sad news. Mega's were the best in the game IMO

ExTester
19 July 2012, 07:37
What! Wow Lame on LMT. Have stronger words for them, but I will spare everyone. Just now I will never buy an LMT product after this kind of move.

ExTester
19 July 2012, 08:44
On a side note, doesn't this create a huge problem to Legion Firearms seeing how they used the Mega Arms Monolithic tube rail exclusively?

jdhill
19 July 2012, 13:36
More info...


(http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/07/18/mega-arms-halts-sale-of-monolithic-uppers/)

Huge problem for Legion unless they have a big stockpile...

kattman
20 July 2012, 01:51
I don't want to ditz LMT, I have several of their MRP's---BUT---IMHO the MEGA mono stuff is WAY COOLER, especially the tubular. I ordered a couple of mids yesterday just to have them in case of addl bad news.

Kattman from Michigan

rob_s
20 July 2012, 02:40
Isn't LMT coming out with a brazillian hand guard? Maybe thats why they want to shut down the competition?

Paulo_Santos
20 July 2012, 04:28
I like both companies, so I won't comment on this. When legal stuff like this comes up, I just prefer to let the companies settle it on their own and if it has to go to court, let them deal with it.

Hatter
20 July 2012, 08:48
I'm not sure why I understand the dissing of LMT here. I own one of their monolithic uppers and while I'm not entirely thrilled with it the concept is fantastic. If indeed the idea and intellectual property is owned by LMT you can't fault them for protecting it. Mega has to either stop production or pay the royalties to allow fabrication under the patent. Now, if LMT forced them to stop without allowing them to pay the royalties (if they so choose to do so) I can see where it would leave for disgruntled customers of LMT/Mega.

rob_s
20 July 2012, 10:46
I'm not sure why I understand the dissing of LMT here. I own one of their monolithic uppers and while I'm not entirely thrilled with it the concept is fantastic. If indeed the idea and intellectual property is owned by LMT you can't fault them for protecting it. Mega has to either stop production or pay the royalties to allow fabrication under the patent. Now, if LMT forced them to stop without allowing them to pay the royalties (if they so choose to do so) I can see where it would leave for disgruntled customers of LMT/Mega.

For myself...

The attachment systems are different. If the very fact that it is monolithic is patentable then I think it's horseshit. So within that context I perceive this as one company with greater legal and financial resources bullying another into stopping production, not because right & wrong but because they want to quash a competitor with a potentially better product.

Paulo_Santos
20 July 2012, 14:05
For myself...

The attachment systems are different. If the very fact that it is monolithic is patentable then I think it's horseshit. So within that context I perceive this as one company with greater legal and financial resources bullying another into stopping production, not because right & wrong but because they want to quash a competitor with a potentially better product.

That's why I don't like to discuss these things. We don't know all of the details and nothing makes sense. Doesn't Armalite make a Monolithic Upper?

John Hwang
21 July 2012, 00:31
It's really unfortunate when a great product has to be taken off the market for a patent that is so broad as monolithic upper. Just my .02

Stickman
21 July 2012, 10:34
I can understand a company wanting to protect their patent. I would have thought there were enough differences between these where there was not an infringement issue, but Mega would have a better idea than I would.

Sometimes it isn't whether you are right, its a matter of what it takes to prove you are right. I'm sure the employees of Mega would prefer not to lose jobs either way.

chazthebiker
22 July 2012, 00:16
This is very sad news to me. Such a fantastic product too. I hope no employees lose their jobs over this.

chazthebiker
22 July 2012, 00:18
It's really unfortunate when a great product has to be taken off the market for a patent that is so broad as monolithic upper. Just my .02

Mr. Hwang... are you permitted to sell remaining stock?

jdhill
22 July 2012, 07:27
I haven't been able to find a MaTen mono upper anywhere... I've found a few AR15 MTS's, and picked up a tubular mid (wanted tubular rifle, but can't find them either, only quad rails)... fortunately, prices didn't jump upon the announcement.

Since LMT got the patent, it's their IP, so they can do as they wish (if they should have been issued one is a different discussion)... but if I read the article correctly, Mega approached LMT about licensing, but got no response, which I think is pretty crappy.

AR-10
22 July 2012, 07:42
Weird, I wonder why LMT never went after Vltor.

Maybe because the VIS bottom rail comes off?

I always thought the MRP was a great concept, and would probably own one if they accepted standard barrels.

TripleBravo
22 July 2012, 09:30
It's really unfortunate when a great product has to be taken off the market for a patent that is so broad as monolithic upper. Just my .02

Exactly....imagine if one company was granted the patent for "semi-automatic pistol" and not a single other company was allowed to produce a semi-auto pistol.

I don't know enough about patent law to say with any real authority, but I agree with everyone else who has commented that it seems like the Mega design (especially with regards to barrel installation) is different enough from LMT's to not infringe on their patent.

As Stickman inferred though, Mega (a smaller company) may have determined that it was going to be too expensive to fight the challenge of LMT (a larger company). This often happens in the LEO world of civil law suits. You find many jurisdictions that pay out a settlement when someone sues even when they know the LEO did nothing wrong simply because it costs less to settle than to fight the law suit in court.

(We need major tort reform in this country for this reason and many, many others...but that's a discussion for another place and time.)

Paulo_Santos
22 July 2012, 09:56
Weird, I wonder why LMT never went after Vltor.

Maybe because the VIS bottom rail comes off?

I always thought the MRP was a great concept, and would probably own one if they accepted standard barrels.

The Vltor is not a true Monolithic Upper. It is called a Polylithic Upper.

phirehawk
23 July 2012, 05:38
Not only does Armalite make a monolithic, so does Colt. The 6940 is a monolithic style upper. I'd like to see LMTs specific complaint as well as their cease and desist. If the nature of the complaint is simply a monolithic one piece upper, then LMT should also be going after Armalite and Colt. Colt is certainly larger, and I would guess Armalite is too. I'm all in favor of protecting your products, but I'm not into bullying the competition because you can.

jdhill
25 July 2012, 17:01
Looks like Rainier Arms might have a few AR rifle length quads left, a little bit of a price bump overnight, but such is capitalism...

Stickman
27 July 2012, 21:00
Looks like Rainier Arms might have a few AR rifle length quads left, a little bit of a price bump overnight, but such is capitalism...


A true capitalistic pig would have put them on an auction site...[:D]

chazthebiker
27 July 2012, 21:17
I haven't been able to find a MaTen mono upper anywhere... I've found a few AR15 MTS's, and picked up a tubular mid (wanted tubular rifle, but can't find them either, only quad rails)... fortunately, prices didn't jump upon the announcement.

Since LMT got the patent, it's their IP, so they can do as they wish (if they should have been issued one is a different discussion)... but if I read the article correctly, Mega approached LMT about licensing, but got no response, which I think is pretty crappy.

Looks like AIM Surplus has a few Maten sets left.

goteron
30 July 2012, 19:38
I think the patent system is broken. But it does cost a lot of time and money to properly file a patent.

In the event anyone is interested

http://www.google.com/patents/US20060236582?printsec=drawing&dq=monolithic+weapon+receiver&ei=3UMXUKmeJIWi8QT7i4CYBQ#v=onepage&q=monolithic%20weapon%20receiver&f=false

http://www.google.com/patents/US20110005384?printsec=drawing&dq=monolithic+weapon+receiver&ei=3UMXUKmeJIWi8QT7i4CYBQ#v=onepage&q=monolithic%20weapon%20receiver&f=false

Looks like they also own these:

http://www.google.com/patents/US3683535?printsec=drawing&dq=karl+r+lewis&ei=lEQXULzPAYX28gS6soEY#v=onepage&q=karl%20r%20lewis&f=false

http://www.google.com/patents/US3061965?printsec=drawing&dq=karl+r+lewis&ei=lEQXULzPAYX28gS6soEY#v=onepage&q=karl%20r%20lewis&f=false

http://www.google.com/patents/US3303594?printsec=drawing&dq=karl+r+lewis&ei=lEQXULzPAYX28gS6soEY#v=onepage&q=karl%20r%20lewis&f=false

http://www.google.com/patents/US3648374?printsec=drawing&dq=karl+r+lewis&ei=lEQXULzPAYX28gS6soEY#v=onepage&q=karl%20r%20lewis&f=false

And quite a few more.