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Mike
6 October 2012, 11:17
I'd like to share some pictures and thoughts about my latest project which I "officially" finished today:

The Remington 7615 Patrol Rifle

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_01_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_01.jpg)


As far as I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong or miss something), the original idea for this gun has it's roots in the post '97 Hollywood Bank shootout timeframe.
Law Enforcement entities all over the US started looking for rifle caliber long guns to equip their first responders with more (and matching) firepower to be able to engage armed and/or protected suspects at longer ranges with more precision. So far non-SWAT types had been equipped with pistols and 12 gauge shotguns with the Remington 870 being one of the most prevalent ones.

This was the hour of birth of the Remington 7615 Police.

Someone at Remington obviously came up with the idea to convert a shotgun based rifle design to a .223 / 5.56 rifle caliber while retaining the handling characteristics of the shotgun the officers where mostly already trained on and familiar with.
I also read comments that suggested that police departments reluctant to issue those evil "assault rifles" to their officers on the street where given an more "civilian" looking option. Not neccessarily the most agreeable school of thought but those types are out there. But the essence of that thought makes this rifle interesting for some folks today - but more about that later.

The rifle is based on a Remington 870 20 gauge reciever, has the same type of action, safety and trigger as the 870 shotgun and is a close relative to the larger bore 7600 family of guns. Remington added a magwell that accepts AR15/M15 type magazines.

As we all know, the last years have shown that almost everybody went the semiautomatic path, providing the LE officer with all the advantages such a system offers. I'd make an educated guess that the M4 is the most commonly used platform current patrol carbines are based on. Thus it is no wonder that the 7615P didn't really catch on in the LE market.

There seems to be a fairly moderate number in use in the US, but most of these may be in the hands of folks that don't hang arount in discussion forums to talk about the newest gadgets... [:D]


...still, the concept is interesting for those who are not able or allowed to use semiautomatic rifles for whatever reason there may be but still want a rifle with a decent firepower that is able to deliver an acceptable rate of fire in patrol type situations.
For example I noticed that there is an ever growing fanbase of the 7615 down under in Australia.

After a shooting incident in 1996 Australia a ban of all semiautomatic rifles was put into legislation, leaving hunters, sport shooters and enthusiasts with a large void. It seems that the 7615 is fitting into that void pretty nicely and they pimp out their rifles like some do with ARs in the US. Some may even go over the top a notch (if that is possible at all). [:D]

As some discussion is picking up in Germany as well to ban "assault weapon lookalike" semiautomatics or even large caliber (everything above a .22lr) weapons completely (because "you don't need them" - that's what's happening when you don't have a 2nd Amendment) I started trying to locate one of those 7615 I read about almost a decade ago. Not an easy task with only a couple of dozen rifles in country at this time. But I finally managed to lay my hands on one.
Elections are next year, better be prepared than surprised, right?

After some initial testing I identified some issues that had to be taken care of:


1. Front Post Sight:

Mounted on the gun is a Wilson Combat Ghost ring sight. That sight is rock solid and fits the bill pretty perfectly.
Out of the box it was perfectly zeroed at 50 meters. This is no precision rifle, but you still are able to deliver acceptable precision with the rear sight. The front sight is made up out of an pretty broad front post that has white bead that is pretty visible in daylight. In twilight this visibility is fading, of course. Also the width of the post makes tight groups really hard to achieve.
Still I wanted to retain this sturdy setup as a back up sighting solution.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_09_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_09.jpg)

Thus I had to mount some kind of optical sight, deciding to go with a reflex sight.

The reciever is pre-drilled to accept a scope mount or rail.
As I wasn't sure if the upper curvature of the 20 gauge reviever is identical to the curvature of the 12 gauge reciever (the width differes about 4-5 millimeters) I was looking for a solution that would certainly fit onto the gun.
I found a picatinny rail specifically offered for the 7615 by Precision Reflex Inc. The rail is a bit longer than the reciever to provide a bit more "Rail Estate" than with a flush fitting version. This way you could put the reflex sight a bit farther forward to accomodate an additional magnifier for example.

For now I upgraded an old Aimpoint Comp C I had lying in the parts bin with a rubber cover and mounted this to the rifle.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_05_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_05.jpg)



2. Stock:

The rifle came with a standard Speedfeed stock with a 14" LOP (RAMAC 26488), there is an version with an 13" LOP SF-S stock (RAMAC 6480).
That is ok for a hunting rifle, I personally prefer a shorter LOP. On my 870 I run a Hogue 12" overmolded stock.
For the 7615 I was looking for a similar length. As the 20 gauge reciever is slimmer and the most interesting offerings are designed for 12 gauge recievers I had to find an acceptable solution. A Mesa Tactical LEO adapter could have been one approach (leaving a step between reciever and adapter). But this also would have meant "evil features" like pistol grip and "assault weapon" collapsible stock. Then Magpul entered the stage (again), announcing the SGA stock for the 870. I guess I was able to get one of the first stocks that made it to Germany.
Still, mounting out of the box was not possible as the mounting tappets did not fit the smaller reciever. Using a file and some cojones I ground down the tappets to finally being able to firmly mount the stock to the rifle. Still, there was a step between stock and reciever. A friend helped me to modify that step into a smooth, eyepleasing blend. It doesn't fit perfectly, but it works perfectly. That's enough for me.

The SGA stock without spacers offeres a non slipping recoil buttpad and - more importantly - a 12,5" LOP as well as an little bit more pistol-style grip that still passes for a classic rifle stock that has no "evil" features.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_07_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_07.jpg)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_10_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_10.jpg)



3. Edges on foreend:

After the first trips to the range I noticed that the rear of the foreend had some really sharp and pointy edges and quoins.
I filed those down to a more round shape without any pointy parts. Still have to finish this with some sandpaper to a nicer look at a later time.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_08_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_08.jpg)


With all above completed last week, today I was able to zero the Aimpoint at the 25 m range.
Still have to measure the V(o) and height-over-bore to decide on the final zero but this will do for now.

The rifle offers acceptable precision for what it is: I was able to produce touching impacts at 25m, that sould translate to roughly 2-3 MOA with a 4 MOA dot. The trigger is dry and has no noticeable creep. The safety is not really ergonomic, being the same as on the 870 shotgun. But I'm used to that so I can makedo.

The magazine release is located in a position where you have to move your shooting hand to use it. This is due to the design of the gun, not very ergonomic but there is not much you could do about that.
Still, the gun accepts AR-magazines. This gives you a capacity starting with the almost flush fitting 10 round magazine the gun is delivered with (or even magazines with less capacity should there be any need, legal or otherwise) to 20 and 30 rounders and up to 60 our 100 rounds using Surefire quadstacs.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_02_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_02.jpg)
60-round Surefire quadstack magazine

I noticed that the gun runs best with aluminium or steel magazines. Polymer magazines such as PMAGs or others may produce feeding issues. I'll have a look into the reason for that at a later time. For now I work with the aluminium magazines I have, all have been GTG.


Some more pictures:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_03_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_03.jpg)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_06_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_06.jpg)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_04_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_04.jpg)

I really started to like the sleek lines of the rifle during this build. Now the rifle offeres a balance between looks, function and inconspicuousness.

It has - besides the "large capacity magazine", which can be changed to a smaller one matching the legal taste in a matter of seconds - no evil features, is based on a "hunting rifle" (which the Remington 7600 basically is) and still has a caliber and rate of fire that makes it an option in quite a number of scenarios (YMMV) and is relatively compact, due to it's 16.5" barrel and 12.5" LOP.


I improvised my zeroing procedure, trying to hit the first bullet hole I shot with the following ones. At home I pre-zeroed the aimpoint using a cheap Laserlyte MBS-1 Bore Sighter at the longest distance my home offers. That enabled me to be on paper and not too far away from the actual zero with the first round.
After that I fired some more confirmation groups just for the fun of it.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_target_01_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_target_01.jpg)
Happy zeroing! [:D]


A few quick offhand rounds produce acceptable groups @ 25 meters:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_target_02_1000px.jpg (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27628570/Weaponevolution.com/kisom_remington_7615_target_02.jpg)


tl, dr? - > In a Nutshell:


Remington 7615, RAMAC 26488
.223 Rem / 5.56 NATO (that's actually both stamped on the barrel, however they do this... )
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm

Precision Reflex 7615 Picatinny Rail
http://www.precisionreflex.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=186593&TERM=7615

Laserlyte MBS-1 Bore Sighter
http://www.laserlyte.com/products/mbs-1

Aimpoint CompC (discontinued)
http://www.aimpoint.com/products/discontinued-sights/product-singleview/product/CompC/
with Outer Rubber Cover Black

Magpul SGA 870 Stock
https://store.magpul.com/product/MAG460/shotgun



Pimp my 7615, Australian Style:

http://www.shooting.com.au/forum/index.php?/topic/5594-show-us-your-remington-7600-n-7615/
(Be warned, pretty fugly setups to be found. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?)



So much for now, I'll edit any errors I will find later... [BD]

Stickman
6 October 2012, 11:25
Very nicely done.

Pork Chop
6 October 2012, 12:18
Sweet rifle! Always been a fan of how streamlined the 7600 series is.


Sent using TapaTalk app.

FortTom
6 October 2012, 17:19
Great review and great pic's. It's interesting, but I doubt that I'd be interested in owning one. Nonetheless, I'm sure that there is a niche market, even here in the U.S., and in states with strict controls on semi-auto's. Also, I didn't know this even existed, until now
so thanks for the great review. Learn something new all the time.

FT.

browcs
6 October 2012, 19:10
Excellent review...thank you very much Mike.

zero7one
7 October 2012, 10:10
Excellent review, sir! Keep up the good work....we'd love to see what else you write up.

jhjfdf
8 October 2012, 04:09
Really great Rifle.
I owned one before...but after getting my AR i really dont needed it anymore.
Mine was with a AR collapsible stock but i have to admit that the SGA looks pretty good on it.

The good thing about these is that you dont need a license for that rifle in austria so these are very in demand.

tac40
10 October 2012, 08:31
Nice

marctolate
12 September 2014, 07:02
Very nice rifle! Love it :)

Long time since last reply in this topic, but I'll ask it anyway. Where can I find that scoperail?
PRI won't ship to the Netherlands and Brownells is asking $40,- for shipping!!!

Jerry R
12 September 2014, 07:20
Glad this popped back up - I missed it.

Great review and good looking stick !!

UWone77
12 September 2014, 08:03
Very nice rifle! Love it :)

Long time since last reply in this topic, but I'll ask it anyway. Where can I find that scoperail?
PRI won't ship to the Netherlands and Brownells is asking $40,- for shipping!!!

You could try Rainier Arms and see if they'll order the part for you. They have an export license.

However, if Brownells is asking $40 for shipping, that doesn't seem too far off for international shipping.

marctolate
12 September 2014, 08:11
Ok, thanks I'll try Rainier Arms.

I paid $75,- for shipping a McMillan A5 stock to the Netherlands, so I think $40,- is a little high for just a rail . It can easily be sent in an envelope.

Does anyone know if a 870 rail would fit on the 7615?

tappedandtagged
16 September 2014, 00:09
Ok, thanks I'll try Rainier Arms.

I paid $75,- for shipping a McMillan A5 stock to the Netherlands, so I think $40,- is a little high for just a rail . It can easily be sent in an envelope.

Does anyone know if a 870 rail would fit on the 7615?

From what I can find from looking at part numbers for the 7615 versus the 870 on several manufactuer's scope bases, it won't fit. But... The part numbers between the 7600 and 7615 are the same.

UDT
16 September 2014, 05:53
Thanks, for sharing. Great write up and picd.

Smash
16 September 2014, 06:11
XS Sight Systems Standard Dot front sight. ;-)

Smash
16 September 2014, 06:19
Does anyone know if a 870 rail would fit on the 7615?


Asking my contacts. I'll try to get you a yes or no today.

Smash
16 September 2014, 08:39
Asking my contacts. I'll try to get you a yes or no today.

Me: Does a receiver mounted rail meant for the 870 fit the receiver for the Remington 7615?

Them: No. The receiver for the 7615 has a top radius the same as the M870 20 gauge, but the hole spacing is different between the two.

Thank you,

marctolate
17 September 2014, 03:02
From what I can find from looking at part numbers for the 7615 versus the 870 on several manufactuer's scope bases, it won't fit. But... The part numbers between the 7600 and 7615 are the same.

7600 and 7615 are the same indeed.
I contacted the writer of this topic, he told where he ordered this rail.

Sent the shop an email already ;)

marctolate
17 September 2014, 03:40
Me: Does a receiver mounted rail meant for the 870 fit the receiver for the Remington 7615?

Them: No. The receiver for the 7615 has a top radius the same as the M870 – 20 gauge, but the hole spacing is different between the two.

Thank you,

Thanks for the reply Smash, answer is clear.
I shot Kingshot.de an email, maybe they can order the PRI rail for my. That rail is made for the 7615.

velocity2006
17 September 2014, 14:42
What about looking at a rail that uses the holes for the fire control pins? Mesa Tactical or Rhino Rail, etc. Spacing looks to be identical as far as I can tell.

Mike
18 September 2014, 13:48
Those are usually made for 12 gauge recievers, whereas the 20 gauge reciever is a few millimeters slimmer (see pictures regarding the SGA stock modifications). Thus I guess that this won't work.
At least I'm not aware that the mentioned manufacturers make rails for that reciever size, but I may be wrong.

velocity2006
18 September 2014, 15:09
If your just worried about the thickness of the receiver you could make some kind of shim/washer system to go in between the rail and the receiver on either side, as long as the holes dimensions line up on the rail and receiver, was just a thought though... Rifle looks good as is IMO, plus any of those rails are going to add a ton of weight. Just curious you planning on adding the Magpul forend to it? Would look nice matching the stock to the forend and give you some options on mounting lights.

avtech850
4 October 2014, 18:46
Way too cool. Never saw a pump action rifle that I liked until now.

Nathan_Mack
9 October 2014, 21:36
Very cool. I never knew this gun existed. Looks like a good shooter, too.

marctolate
9 February 2015, 08:26
It took a while to get all the parts together and get them fitted, but here's my project so far.
Next step is installing a fake mag extension tube and get a heavy barrel installed or work with a barrel shroud to give it a real 12ga look :)

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq243/marctolate/7615P%20Project_zpsyogctkpb.jpg


Want it to look like the one at the bottom

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq243/marctolate/project_zpsc4dsnhcp.jpg

UWone77
10 February 2015, 20:05
Very nice!

I need more shotgun in my life.

toolboxluis00200
10 February 2015, 21:11
man that is cool project i saw one like 3 years a go at the range only and last time i saw it

Eric
11 February 2015, 19:59
Next step is installing a fake mag extension tube and get a heavy barrel installed or work with a barrel shroud to give it a real 12ga look :)
Why? I don't get the shell holder either.

marctolate
11 February 2015, 22:47
Because I'm not allowed to own a 12ga pump action here in the Netherlands and I really want one!
So the only option for me to own such a rifle is by creating a lookalike. It's not exactly what I want but it's the closest as I'll get to.

Mike
12 February 2015, 13:10
I guess that's one of those "each to it's own" things.

In every other country gun owners have to deal with their own set of unneccessary gun law regulations. Not everybody lives in a gun owners happyland. [:D] (and still, you guys sometimes complain...)

For us in Germany it's a bit more difficult (although generally possible) to obtain a semiautomatic rifle as a competition shooter and it gets more difficult the more you own.
A bolt action or pump action rifle is less regulated. Pump-action or semiautomatic Shotguns are regulated pretty much as semiautomatic rifles, so generally it's possible to obtain them but it's a bit more paperwork than say, a double-barrelled shotgun.

The 7615 offers capabilities close to a semiautomatic rifle in a more buyer-friendly legal format combined with acceptable precision, thus it's a nice addon to have.