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View Full Version : Rifle Safes....Who's got what?



louie
16 May 2008, 22:12
Folks, I'm in the market for a safe for my stuff.

I'm looking for a good quality safe, not massive, but certainly big enough for scoped rifles and maybe a shelf or two for some handguns.

I've been eyeballin' safes from Cannon, Cabela's (their Liberty line), and Liberty.

Anybody have any suggestions, comments, Pros/Cons, etc.?


TIA,

Cohibra45
17 May 2008, 09:01
I really like my Liberty. It is not their largest, but it has a lot of convertible features that can hold a lot of long guns as well as shelves. I even got the door pistol knobs to hang my pistols, but have not installed them as of yet. My safe is 60"x36"xx28" and supposidly weighs around 650lbs empty. It is really heavy and with the guns inside would make it really hard for someone to carry it off. It has provisions to be bolted to the floor, but I guess, if someone can carry off 800lbs, I don't want to mess with them anyway. [wow]

Take care,

Kelly (Cohibra45)

Stickman
17 May 2008, 10:07
I'm waiting for Dutch to chime in on this, I know he has looked into different safes, and is the only person I know who talks to safe vendors about all the different features they offer.

NvrenufRR
18 May 2008, 10:49
I have a 32 gun RedHead from Bass Pro Shop.

Its Great, Heavy as hell, takes 4 o move, But nice and roomy. 1200 F for 1 hour rated and only cost me $839

Some good advice, just buy a larger safe 20 gun minimum, you will want to expand.
I started with a 32 gun, And now 2 32's and 14, still not enoug room.

Tucson
19 May 2008, 13:49
I use the Stack-on 10 gun safe. My "collection" is quite minimal. I've worked it down to just the essentials...
1 AR
1 12ga
2 45s

Eric
19 May 2008, 23:08
I've been happy with my Liberty safe. On mine, I bypassed the fancy gloss paint job and got the more inexpensive matte.
I always recommend figuring out what size your going to need, and then going one size larger.

NickDrak
20 May 2008, 06:28
I would take a good look at Champion Safes. I had previously owned a Liberty safe and left it at my old house with the new owner. I replaced it with a Champion Victory Series safe that cost me nearly the same, but offered more fire protection, heavier gauge steel, more bolts, more weight, more cubic ft, and a gloss finish. They can also be ordered with the non-gloss "textured" finish which will save you some additional cash.

12131
20 May 2008, 10:32
I have the Champion model Trophy-33, and it's already filled. Planning on getting another one.
NickDrak, don't you mean Triumph Series? I don't think Champion has a Victory Series.

NickDrak
20 May 2008, 10:56
I have the Champion model Trophy-33, and it's already filled. Planning on getting another one.
NickDrak, don't you mean Triumph Series? I don't think Champion has a Victory Series.

Mine is indeed a Victory series, but you are correct, mine is 3 years old and I think Champion has re-named their safe lines the year following my safe purchase.

12131
20 May 2008, 12:13
Thanks. That explains it.

louie
20 May 2008, 13:55
Anybody hear of http://www.sturdysafe.com/quickquote.htm

12131
20 May 2008, 13:59
Here a useful gun safe buyer's guide, http://www.6mmbr.com/gunsafes.html .

louie
20 May 2008, 14:32
12131,

Thanks for the link!

There's a few links at the bottom of the page that look interesting too.

tundra
7 September 2009, 02:05
I don't mean to be a downer but I have seen the types of safes you are talking about buying torn open with nothing more than heavy pry bars. This was at a burglary at a restaurant. The thieves came in from the roof and tore open the safe and took 5k It was a Cannon safe.

I have also seen safes that withstood hours of work by the burglars and they were unable to get into it. This safe was made of very heavy steel and had concrete and rebar reinforcement in between the steel plates. The thieves used chisels and hammers but were unable to get inside the safe. The safe was ruined.


There is a video on Youtube that shows two guys opening a safe in 1:49 with a crow bar and a very heavy pry bar. If i had the money I would buy a safe that weighs at least a ton or more and is made of 1/2 steel at the minimum. I don't recall the name of the safe (It sounded German) company but I saw them at a gun show in Orange County last year. It was over $3k.

I have a safe I keep my guns in and I feel better knowing I have it, but if someone wants into a safe they will get in. One other good idea is too have an alarm system installed for your house.

federalist22
7 September 2009, 05:34
One thing to remember on safe buying and configuring is that scoped rifles tend to occupy the area of two non-scoped rifles and ARs do as well, but scoped ARs tend to occupy the space of three rifles in some configs, so buy carefully. Also, my safe dealer said the question of which combination lock to go with rarely came up prior to 9/11, as most went with electronic locks, but its a very common question now. In regards to a possible Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) event, go with the dial lock instead of the electronic lock. God forbid an EMP attack ever does happen, but if you have an electronic lock and survive, you will not be able to get to your guns. Dial locks are warrantied for about 20 years and the electronic locks are not, plus the battery dies in about 8-10 years.

I have a 66.5x37x27 Fort Knox Defender (http://www.ftknox.com/redesign/safes/defender.htm) in my basement to store my growing collection of firearms. I trust the company and composition of the product. It also weighs over 1000 pounds empty and I also have a home alarm system (APX - http://www.apxalarm.com/) I trust while on vacation, at work, or asleep.

Fort Knox Defender Specs:
» Certified 1680ºF/90 minute fire protection
» UL Listed for burglary (tests including drilling, punching, prying, hammering, and several tamper tests)
» 1 3/4" Reinforced Fire Door
» Quadrafold™ door frame with deep recessed door
» 10 gauge steel, Uni-body construction (1-1/2" total body thickness)
» 13-1½" diameter active door locking bolts all the way around the door
» An additional locking bolt on the top of the door
» Patented rack & pinion gear drive locking mechanism
» Bolt Detent
» Drill deflector bolt guard
» EasyGlide™, concealed ball-bearing hinges
» Drill stop hard plate with recessed multi-bearings
» Clutch Drive handle
» S&G Group II manipulation resistant lock
» Durable textured finish
» Fully Carpeted interior, including the back panel
» Limited lifetime warranty
~ Reinforced steel liner
~ Light Package
~ Door holsters
~ Chrome handle
~ Dehumidifier


Fort Knox has a great reputation for their warranty, which I have heard is questionable about Liberty in the DC/VA/MD area. If you go to a Nation's Gun Show in Chantilly, VA (there is one in OCT - I think) you can find Steve from Steve's Safes (a Fort Knox dealer)--he also travels to PA and WV I think.

My Fort Knox - Note the exterior hinges (allows for full swing of door--not tied to security of the door due to the interior door locking bolts). External hinges are growing in popularity, at least that is what I have heard--and I heard that Fort Knox wasn't even offering them until a year or so ago--probably wanted to ensure they would not affect the integrity of the safe.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv358/federalist22/misc007.jpg
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv358/federalist22/misc017.jpg
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv358/federalist22/ARupdatePics014-1.jpg

Beaux
7 September 2009, 06:06
First off, any safe given enough time can be broken into. Safes are a deterrent and properly secured very efficient to fend of criminals. I have an American Security BF6032 (http://www.amsecusa.com/gun-safes-BF-main.htm) and a Bighorn 7144 (http://www.rhinosafe.com/bighorngunsafes.html). The AS is an excellent safe and one of the best you can buy. I house my treasured firearms, records and other valuables in the AS. The Bighorn (made by Rhino) is well made but doesn't have the same reputation as the AS. I bought it because I just ran out of room.

As far as price, the AS is of course more apples to apples but I don't think you can go wrong with a Bighorn either, it's a lot of safe for the money. I got a heck of a deal on my Bighorn from a local gun shop when I picked it up myself and waved delivery. The AS is just shy of 900 lbs but smaller than the Bighorn which comes in over 1000 lbs.

Army Chief
7 September 2009, 07:39
I don't have a "safe" by American standards, but I do have the requisite German standard gun locker, which is much the same thing on a slightly less onerous scale. Still thick gauge steel, but it uses a keyed locking system -- and the weight isn't quite so hard on the floor. I actually prefer the cabinet to a safe, but I suppose some of this all depends upon where you're living, too.

AC

tracksol
7 September 2009, 07:44
I've been looking at safes ever since I bought my first firearm 6 months ago. I really don't think I'm going to become and avid gun collector, or have many firearms. The maximum amount of firearms I plan on having is two AR's, 3 pistols and 1 shotgun. Of course, having some space to store family valuables and important documents would be nice.

I have yet to find a gun safe that is small enough for my arsenal but with the features of the large ones. Any recommendations?

federalist22
7 September 2009, 08:04
Safes are nice, if you have the dehumidifier, because they can also house savings bonds, marriage/birth/death certificates, DD214s and military docs, coin/stamp/ball card collections, photo negatives/tapes/media, jewelry, etc.

Sure, any safe can be broken into, but it takes "time" and with a high-pitch siren sounding, and in my area LE is very fast to respond, it would be difficult to cut/knock it open or to drag my 1000+ lb. behemoth up 10 steps out of my walk-out basement.

Another lesson on safes--Buy the size you will need in the future because you will kick yourself later if you have to upgrade.

airborneski
8 September 2009, 12:02
Stack on 33 gun fire safe. Suits my needs, no matter what safe you get it wont hold as much as they say. Cheap price about 450.00 at dicks.

Army Chief
8 September 2009, 12:35
Stack on 33 gun fire safe. Suits my needs, no matter what safe you get it wont hold as much as they say. Cheap price about 450.00 at dicks.

That is effectively what I've got (in a German version with a slightly more sophisticated locking mechanism), and to be honest, I actually prefer this to a conventional gun safe. These cabinets can still be anchored to the floor or wall, still buy you some time, and still keep unauthorized persons from accessing the firearms, but come in a form factor that is a lot more realistic, given a military lifestyle (i.e. frequent PCS relocations).

The price of admission is certainly reasonable enough -- and in Germany, every firearms owner is required by law to have this level of protection in his home, no questions asked.

AC

alpha.kilo
13 September 2009, 13:10
I bought my safe about six years ago. I did a lot of research before I bought. Here is what I remember:

> The best indicator of safe quality is safe weight. I know it sounds simplistic, but a medium sized 30 c.f. safe should weigh about 1000 pounds. You don't want your safe less than 1000 pounds. Steel is heavy and expensive. It is a good layman's measurement.

>Safe companies change hands, or at least management paradigms quite often. So what is the best safe brand and model and/or best value five years ago may not be today. For example, six years ago I bought a Champion top of the line "Crown" model weighing about 1170 pounds empty. Today that model is significantly lighter in weight for the same size because the company has changed hands and now uses thinner steel in search of cost savings. You need to do some research. A National Security Safe bought in 1988 is definitely not the same safe if bought today. They were possibly the best you could buy in 1988 for home safes. No longer.

>Speaking of the total safe weight, look for a thick, heavy door. You want a 6 full inches. I wouldn't settle for less than 5 inches. The door can be made of composite. That's OK. But you should check to see exactly what the composite is. It should contain a high quantity of elements like Kevlar. In any case make sure your safe door has a glass relocker. That is your protection against rough handling to break into it or to drill into it.

>If the company will not give you specific information, such as what exactly their door material is made of, that should be a big red flag. You may assume the worse.

>The door is a signifcant point of weakness in a gun safe. You want to preferably have a thick double edge (two stepped edges to prevent prying) door with big "active" bolts. 1 1/2 inch steel bolts that all retract into the door is what you want. And alot of them. For a medium sized safe (31X66 in) it should have 18 bolts. This prevents the pry opening that you may have seen displayed on "YouTube."

>The second point of weakness is the back of the safe, where the steel is usually thinner than the sides or door. That is why you put the back of the safe up against good wall and lag it to the floor. Even if it weighs 1300 or 1400 pounds. Lag it into concrete.

>The fire rating on safes is tricky, and sometimes deceiving. It is not as important as to who does the fire rating (UL, Whitehall) as to "how" it was performed. Many safe companies will specifiy that their safe enter the furnace on its back at room temperature. Once in the furnace, the burners are ignited for a slow rise to the max temperature, which it may endure for only a very short time. But they "start" the clock when the they open the furnace door. Very deceiving. This type of test will yield much more favorable results than if the safe was sitting upright (like in your house) and enters the furnace at or near max temperature. Where the recording instrument is placed inside of the test safe is also crucial. A quality test will place the instrument near the top of the safe, where temperatures are highest. If the safe company will not email you their crtieria for their fire rating, that is another red flag.

>One way to improve the "fire rating" or better yet "survivaility" of your safe is to place it on an exterior wall. The wall will colapse and let the heat out before the temperature inside a high quality safe will reach 344 degrees, the temperature that paper chars.

> When you shop, simple mechanical features are best. For instance, when I was in the market, Ft KNOX made a very good, very heavy (and expensive) safe. But the internal door mechanism was so complicated that any small bit of foriegn material that got into the gearing, such as when moving, could completely lock up the entire door. A simple, heavy duty mechanism is best.

>There was a previous posting about electronic locks and an EMP event. While that poster was absolutely accurate, there is another element to balance that concern with. Electronic locks, while vulnerable to an EMP, are also much harder to pick. We have several of our detectives who have gone though lock picking schools. They have been able to pick several safe locks of the rotating mechanical variety (after we have obtained a warrant, of course) with no damage to the safe. None of our guys have ever been successful with a Sargeant & Greenleaf Electronic lock. So that is something to consider.

>Do your research and good luck. Buying a safe gives you huge peace of mind when you are not home and is worth every penny.

AK

crrider
28 February 2010, 08:55
I have the same Ft Knox as Federalist22 and could not be happier with my choice. Well worth the cost and as was said earlier, pick the size you want and then get a size bigger cause there's always stuff you can keep in your safe.

mitchrapp
2 March 2010, 18:47
Liberty fatboy jr. is a hard thing to look past. 48 gun capacity and right around 1000 dollars, combine that with 45 minutes @ 1200 and its a pretty good combo. Just my .02

usbp379
27 June 2013, 04:58
The Ft Knox M2 looks like a great safe for the money. The body is 3/16" and the door is 3/8" standard.

The safe uses a solid plate door rather than a composite or reinforced fire door so the fire rating is a bit lower than the Defender, Protector, etc. But, in my mind at least, what is lost in fire is made up for in good old fashioned steel. Ft Knox says the M2 is a no frills production safe so it only comes in a few sizes and interior choices and is only available in two colors.

Price in a 6030 should be right around $2000.


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Aegis
6 July 2013, 09:09
I 2nd Federalist's recommendation on Steve's safes. Bought my Ft. Knox Executive from him in 1995.

He travels to PA (does the big outdoor show in Harrisburg) prices can't be beat, and will give you solid advice.

Steve won't try to upsale you on the safe. Tell him your needs and he'll make a solid recommendation.

703-573-4394 or 1-888-416-7226

dduck44
6 July 2013, 19:39
Here's my evolution and conclusion;
1.) I went on line to various gun related sites and looked at dozens of posts.
2.) Watched the Youtube video where a couple of average guys brute force a typical gun safe open in about 10 minutes.
3.) Determined that Sturdy and Fort Knox were both good choices and "built" them online-by the time they are armored and have stainless steel added for torch protection you're in the $6000-$10000 range
4.) Did more research and then went to look at real safes-UL rated-safes on craigslist, most gun safes are considered RSCs or Residential Storage Containers. UL rated safes are designated TR for torch protection, TL for tool protection
and TX for explosives. They also have a number rating of 15, 30 or 60 and some have a "x 6" which means all 6 sides are the same level of protection. A TRTL 15 x 6 will withstand at least 15 minutes of a steady and vigorous torch and tool
attack by someone.

I saw a TL15 for $2000 OBO and have seen TRTL 30 x 6 going for around $4000-these weigh in at about 5000lbs.
Buy a used high security safe and rework the inside, you'll get twice the safe for half the money.

Hmac
7 July 2013, 08:06
I have a couple of these good old Stack Ons. I just need them to keep the guns away from the kids. The money I save over an actual safe of good quality I spend on an insurance rider.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/stack-on-production/product_images/1394/medium/1394.png?1309901364

KevinBLC
3 August 2013, 16:14
I have a couple of these good old Stack Ons. I just need them to keep the guns away from the kids. The money I save over an actual safe of good quality I spend on an insurance rider.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/stack-on-production/product_images/1394/medium/1394.png?1309901364

I'm currently looking for a new safe that holds ~20 rifles. I want room down the road to expand... but I'm not sure I'm sold on basically a lock box... and using the savings on insurance. I don't want to replace my guns if they are stolen and into the hands of criminals out there. I think we should protect our guns from the hands of burglars more than having insurance replace them. Just my 2 cents.

usbp379
18 August 2013, 16:00
Buy a used high security safe and rework the inside, you'll get twice the safe for half the money.

Weight considerations make these unrealistic for the average home owner as does the size. I recently looked at a used TRTL safe that was 72x40 on the outside. Weight was over two tons. The interior was relatively small since the walls were probably a good four or six inches thick. Converting to a gun safe interior wouldn't yield anything bigger than probably
20-25 cubic feet of storage space.

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MoxyDave
19 August 2013, 11:27
I recently installed an American Security BF (6032?) - it's the smallest in the BF line. Every gunsmith and locksmith I spoke to had a positive opinion of the AmSec BF line. Of course I've already outgrown it ... should have gone BIGGER! Ha!

Realistically in an urban setting, any modern safe will probably be sufficient. Crooks are typically not going to spend more than a couple hours beating on your safe while you're away. I just lucked out and found a great deal on the AmSec, otherwise I would have chosen something cheaper.

I saw a Pendelton at the gun club the other day, it is a round safe with a rotary lazy-suzan type thing in the center. It's extremely well-lit and very nice looking. I imagine they are pricey, but they sure are functional:

http://www.pendletonsafes.com/

usbp379
19 August 2013, 16:13
There's a video on YouTube of some guys trying to pry open a Pendleton. Due to its unique shape they don't make much progress. Basically they just manage to roll the safe around with the pry bars.

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Jnarowe
28 September 2013, 19:20
About the hinges, virtually all commercial burglary and fire safes have external hinges. They allow for better opening and can distract inexperienced burglars into attacking them. That is of course a worthless endeavor. Check out AMSEC (http://www.amsecusa.com/) for more information on commercial grade safes. There is a lot of info there that can help you select a good safe for your guns. I have no affiliation with them, other than I have a couple of their safes in my grocery store.

usbp379
9 January 2014, 17:42
Here's a video Sturdy Safe Co posted on their facebook page. The guy pokes a pretty good hole in a piece of 10g steel with a pike.

Kind of fun to watch but probably not a huge worry unless you leave a fire ax next to your safe!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=739044929460622&set=vb.100000653663038&type=2&theater

mustangfreek
10 January 2014, 01:55
Speaking of safes, hoping to get down to NWsafe soon and pick one up..heard from everyone thats the place to go..in washington atleast

usbp379
23 March 2014, 08:17
Here is a good example of what might be one of the better deals from a well-known manufacturer. These look like what many companies were making before steel prices went crazy and forced makers to use thinner steel in an effort to keep costs down.

http://www.westcoastsafes.com/fort-knox-gun-safes-fort-knox-m2-gun-safes-c-1000071_1000082.html


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Hmac
24 March 2014, 06:54
I suspect that your average $1000 safe would only take a burglar a little longer to get into than one of these Stack-Ons.

mustangfreek
25 March 2014, 01:42
I suspect that your average $1000 safe would only take a burglar a little longer to get into than one of these Stack-Ons.

I disagree with this, "used to have a stack on cabinet" back in the day and compared to my liberty fat boy i just picked up, that is solidly bolted to the floor, i see no way there getting in very easily, unless a torch, cut off saw is involved..

UWone77
25 March 2014, 23:27
I disagree with this, "used to have a stack on cabinet" back in the day and compared to my liberty fat boy i just picked up, that is solidly bolted to the floor, i see no way there getting in very easily, unless a torch, cut off saw is involved..

Once inside, the burglars can take all of your guns... both of them. [:D]

mustangfreek
26 March 2014, 01:06
Once inside, the burglars can take all of your guns... both of them. [:D]

Haha...funny guy...[crazy]

thats not true btw..i have 3..[:D]