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Hostile Tree Sloth
26 May 2008, 13:32
I want to buy an AR. My budget is up to $1,600.00. I will probably put a few hundred rounds through this rifle per year at the local range. For this price I want a sling, a few extra mags and a cleaning kit.

Do I want or need a piston upper for this purpose? Is the piston the "wave of the future" and if I only have one AR, should this one have a piston?

I have an EOTech, so I do not need optics. What do you suggest I look at that fits within my budget and for my use?

Thanks,
Hostile Tree Sloth

Stickman
26 May 2008, 13:57
I want to buy an AR. My budget is up to $1,600.00. I will probably put a few hundred rounds through this rifle per year at the local range. For this price I want a sling, a few extra mags and a cleaning kit.

Do I want or need a piston upper for this purpose? Is the piston the "wave of the future" and if I only have one AR, should this one have a piston?

I have an EOTech, so I do not need optics. What do you suggest I look at that fits within my budget and for my use?

Thanks,
Hostile Tree Sloth

You have a great budget to get going on this project. You've got a lot of ways you could pursuit this, but one of my favorites would probably be grabbing a Noveske.

I doubt I would go with a piston if it were going to be my "one gun", and thats more for an availability of parts down the road.

I'll be back in a minute, and I'll post a picture of what I would get....

Stickman
26 May 2008, 20:45
I ended up sidetracked for a bit, sorry about that.

A few options to consider.

1. Noveske N4 Light Basic Carbine. This runs $1375, and you can drop on a Daniel Defense Omega Rail to bring it up to $1585.

Downsides to this are primarily cost. The weapon comes with a 30 round magazine and manual. Its one of the best weapons out there, but you will still want to pick up USGI, or PMAGs, and I would go with at least 4 or 5 of them to start. A sling and cleaning kit are needed as well still. Ammunition is its own story, so I won't put that in this thread.

Shown below is a Noveske N4 with Omega rail, and Gear Sector GS-2P sling (along with Bobro VFG).

http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Noveske/IMG_6762%201028%20WEVO%20Stick.jpg

Stickman
26 May 2008, 20:54
Option 2 would be one of the new Charles Daly D-M4LE. We've got a review written up (in the review section), and we punished that weapon pretty hard without having any malfunctions of any kind. I've heard that street price is around $1000, but thats internet rumor.

The CD D-M4LE is well built, and saves you money for a rail if you want one, but it also gets you money for an iron sight (BUIS), sling, magazines, and possibly even a training course.

CD-M4LE- $1000
BUIS- $100ish
Sling- $40
PMAGs- $12-14 each
Cleaning - $30-40
Rail- $165-250


All of the above is more than doable, and you would have money left over.


http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Charles%20Daly%20Carbines/IMG_4399%201028%20Stick.jpg

Stickman
26 May 2008, 21:00
Option 3 would be going for a LMT, which is another very well built weapon, and run around $1240 for the complete basic weapon with LMT BUIS.


From there you start looking at some other options like CMT/ Stag, or buying a lower and building it up yourself, or getting a custom built upper. You could go with Bushmaster, RRA, DPMS, or others, but I feel that the above 3 out perform most others in terms of overall quality.

The CD is probably giving the best bang for the buck that I've seen lately, the Noveske is giving the best all out weapon quality, and the LMT is just a solid all around performer. I didn't bring Colt into this thread due to the difficulty of finding them currently and associated prices. Colt makes some very good carbines in their LE line up, but there are a lot of parted out used Colts floating around out there. Watch that you buy from someone you trust if you go that route.

TigerStripe
26 May 2008, 23:03
That's good advice and I agree with it. Find the money you're willing and able to spend (it's usually a tad more over budget) and look at the options. You'll want to have the mags and accessories. If I had a $2000-$2500 budget, I'd get the Noveske. Most guys that have been around have heard about and shot LMT would probably go with the LMT. Charles Daly is new on the scene compared to the others. I won't tell you to buy one yet as I'm still doing my review (which is separate from Stickman's) and don't have enough rounds down range yet. I will say it is very well built. It won't come with some deficiencies that some other, better known companies' AR's.

Work out everything, look at the options and decide for yourself.


TS


* I haven't read Stickman's T&E/review as I don't want to let it influence mine.

Hostile Tree Sloth
27 May 2008, 03:45
Thank you. Sounds like some good choices. As I can only afford one, I intend to move slowly in making the choice. The CD does appear to be a good buy from what I can tell on the web site.

Sloth

gringo
27 May 2008, 06:15
No doubt about the quality of the firearms already recommended, but the user states that he only intends to shoot "a couple hundred rounds a year".
Sounds to me like he's just looking for a decent plinker.
The guns listed above will certainly fit the bill (and more!), but you may want to consider a less expensive, decent quality carbine and spend the rest on ammo and maybe a good training class.
A Stag, RRA, S&W, ADS with a few tweaks of the bolt carrier assembly would be more than enough gun for the intended use.
On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with buying the best you can afford!

12131
27 May 2008, 10:20
No doubt about the quality of the firearms already recommended, but the user states that he only intends to shoot "a couple hundred rounds a year".
Sounds to me like he's just looking for a decent plinker.
The guns listed above will certainly fit the bill (and more!), but you may want to consider a less expensive, decent quality carbine and spend the rest on ammo and maybe a good training class.
A Stag, RRA, S&W, ADS with a few tweaks of the bolt carrier assembly would be more than enough gun for the intended use.
On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with buying the best you can afford!
Excellent point.

TigerStripe
27 May 2008, 11:18
The D-M4 (not LE) can be had for the price of a Bushmaster, Stag, S&W, etc... actually a little less. The tweeks are done at the factory. They come with a properly staked gas key and the extra power extractor and O-ring. That would leave a good amount of money for the extras.


TS

Paulinski
27 May 2008, 19:01
Listed in order of preference.

1) Noveske N4
2) LMT
3) Charles Daly

My $0.02

MerQ
27 May 2008, 22:07
To agree with Gringo's suggestion - buy the best gear you can afford. If you can swing it go with the N4 and just add a rail system later if you want to go that route. Half of the addiction to AR's are the modularity and customization to make a weapon that can fill an exact purpose. You can't go wrong with a basic configuration AR for a all around "go to gun." Nothing says that you can't add to what you have later or replace with better parts as they wear out.

I would start out with a better quality weapon (Noveske, LMT, etc) and add to that. It's kind out like this - a Mercedes will always be a Mercedes but you can "pimp out" a Honda all day and it's still a Honda. That's not to say it can't or won't perform well but you will end up spending more in the end to get the same features/ quality.

Hostile Tree Sloth
29 May 2008, 19:58
Ok. Let's assume I get the 5.56. Then, I'll get the bug and want another. If I want to buy a .308 or 6.8. what would you recommend? To keep it somewhat realistic for me, let's say the total purchase price for this one would be $1,400.00.

From my initial research, it looks like slim picking here. Stag, DPMS, Armalite, is that pretty much it?

Sloth

JAH-23
29 May 2008, 20:15
In the .308/7.62 or 6.8 crowd you also have RRA and Noveske.

I'm glad this topic came up though as my friend is taking his backup rifle back so I have to act instead of just research now.

TigerStripe
30 May 2008, 00:47
The Charles Daly is built at least as well as an LMT and costs less. They are new in the AR business but their product is quite good and the customer service is good as well. The one I have for T&E has been great and I haven't heard any complaints about any of their product.



TS

Cohibra45
1 June 2008, 15:50
Ok. Let's assume I get the 5.56. Then, I'll get the bug and want another. If I want to buy a .308 or 6.8. what would you recommend? To keep it somewhat realistic for me, let's say the total purchase price for this one would be $1,400.00.

From my initial research, it looks like slim picking here. Stag, DPMS, Armalite, is that pretty much it?

Sloth

If you stick with 6.8, all you need is an upper. I would suggest Ko-Tonics (Cardinal Armory) as they seem to have the best barrel/twist/chamber and have great customer service.

Check out this forum site for most everything about the 6.8 SPC:

http://www.68forums.com/

Take care,

Kelly (Cohibra45)

BTW, I'm going with the LMT CQB MRP model piston. You can get the regular CQB MRP for your initial costs and just purchase another barrel/bolt and get another caliber or even when the piston kit comes out, just get that...Just a thought.[:)]

Combat Tree Sloth
2 June 2008, 10:18
I got it a bit backwards; I ordered the 6.8 first. I ordered a LMT 6.8 CQB, with the 16" barrel, the defender lower, SOPMOD stock and the two stage trigger. I've got a six to eight week wait, but that is fine.

I appreciate everyone's advice.

Sloth

12131
2 June 2008, 12:10
Wait a minute. Hostile Tree Sloth--------->Combat Tree Sloth? I don't get it.

Combat Tree Sloth
2 June 2008, 14:04
For some reason, some forums will not take the name "hostile tree sloth" but they will take "combat tree sloth." So, I use them interchangeably. I sometime screw up and end up with both names on one forum! That's what I've done here; I'm registered under both names. Oh well, Sloths aren't that smart, we are easily confused!

Maybe I should start over and just be "grumpy tree sloth" or something that all forums will accept.

Sloth