Rubber City Armory Bolt Carrier Group

[UWone77]

Rubber City Armory (http://www.rubbercityarmory.com/index.php) is a relative newcomer to the AR15 BCG market. They feature black nitride processing which they claim eliminates the need for lube or oil for the life of the weapon. Some may balk at the claims and price, but keep in mind, Young Manufacting Chrome BCG's (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1007)and Fail Zero BCG's (http://www.failzero.com/component/virtuemart/?Itemid=1)are similar in price. Pretty bold claims, but I also can't wait to try one out.

Rubber City Armory's Enhanced Bolt Carrier Group (http://www.rubbercityarmory.com/product.php) is "drop-in ready" for M16/AR15 weapons. The enhanced features of RCA's Bolt Carrier Group give law enforcement, military and security professionals performance, reliability and the advantage in times of need.

Manufactured to meet and exceed DoD MiL-Spec 961 standards, our Enhanced Bolt Carrier Group is designed to provide tens of thousands of rounds of reliable performance.

Blacknitride processing and polymeric adsorption increase wear properties, steel strength and increase the life of all treated components.

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/RCA_zpscf458f24.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/RCA_zpscf458f24.jpg.html)

Each Rubber City Armory Bolt Carrier Group Includes:

• Complete Bolt
◦Machined from Carpenter 158 Steel
◦Shot peened
◦Batch MPI inspected
• Retaining Pin
• Carrier with Staked Gas Key
◦Machined from 8620 Steel
• Firing Pin
• Cam Pin

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/RCA2_zps90b0624f.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/RCA2_zps90b0624f.jpg.html)

Rubber City Armory
1344 Kenmore Blvd.
Akron, Ohio 44314
info@rubbercityarmory.com
330-794-7304
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/RCA3_zps81f0141e.png (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/RCA3_zps81f0141e.png.html)

[tac40]

Interesting.

[Deckard]

Not really mil-spec if it's not HPT as I understand it.

[UWone77]

I may get one just to run it through the trials and with no lube. Just to see how long it will run.

[Slippers]

There's a fairly lengthy thread on M4C regarding these bolt carrier groups. I'll say up front I don't own one, and have no personal experience, but many people in the M4C thread have purchased them.

My biggest concern is that they haven't been consistent based on the pictures that owners have been posting over the last 6 months. Some come with coated firing pins, some don't, and at one point they changed their staking method, then back again when people complained (although it doesn't appear that the different method was ineffective, rather it simply didn't look like the nice staking from a MOACKS). Additionally, RCA said they were going to stop using forged gas keys at some point, and switch to CNC'd gas keys.

Food for thought.

[UWone77]

I've followed the thread on M4c. I believe the nitride has potential, but it appears the build of the BCG itself is what is in question.

[JGifford]

I have owned every generation of BCG from RCA at this point.

Gen 1: This was the original. It was entirely QPQ minus the firing-pin, and machined just like a regular BCG. Great BCG!
Gen 2: This happened when RCA had to change machine services, and it came with some improvements (radiused lugs, some had billet gas-keys and QPQ FP's), but also some quirks (sticking FP channel, top-staking).
Gen 3: This is the current generation. It is correctly side-staked, has a billet gas-key (really, it's a non-load bearing component. As long as the hardness is there, and it is, it's G2G), QPQ FPP, and radiused lugs, also the ID of the FP channel was addressed. It's a great BCG.

I recommend, as with all BCG's, that they be generously lubed, and that the extractor spring be replaced with the "gold" spring from Colt, currently back-orderable through Brownells (Mine took about 3 weeks last time).
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/extractor-parts/extractor-springs/extractor-spring-assembly-prod4840.aspx
An O-ring is not required.

To date, I have only put about 4-500 rounds through the BCG's. No failures of any kind resulted. Things I noted were:

I had a new Daniel Defense rifle (middy 16"), and 2 new PSA uppers (Middy 16"), which I gave to friends. All rifles got about 200-250 rounds through them, while my DD got about 300-350, during some range-time. They were using the RCA BCG's I gave them, and I was using the OEM DD BCG.

-Cam-pin wear: The DD developed a ridge that could be grasped with a fingernail, and some peening. The RCA QPQ Cam-pins wore some of the color off, but retained dimensions.
-BCG wear: All BCG's showed some "polishing" on the sides of the gas-key and the rails.
-Clean-up: We ran them wet with Rand CLP, the bolt tail on all needed scraping for a white-glove cleaning (which I don't recommend, but wanted to test how easy it was with the QPQ), and was slightly easier on the RCA's. No other differences were noted as they wiped clean with microfiber.
-Bolt-lug wear: Much more polishing was evident with the BCG bolt lugs, even on day 1, were it only saw about 200 rounds, so as to equally compare round-counts.

No other anomalies good or bad were noted. All rifles functioned 100% except for: 1 of my friends failed to fully seat a magazine and dropped the hammer on an empty chamber. One of my friends induced a double-feed by babying the CH forward, then chambering another round when I corrected the action, before I could assist. They are both new to the M4 platform, and I was doing my best to teach and instruct as best I could. We zeroed, then did some VTAC 1-5 type drills, modified to include a reload, and for the public range's rules (very limited on staying behind a line, and not taking up more than 2 lanes, lucky we got that many, but it wasn't that populated).

[usbp379]

How well does the RCA stuff work when shot suppressed? Does the treatment provide good lubricity even with the added fouling?

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[usbp379]

Also has anyone contacted RCA to see if they'll treat an existing carrier?

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[usbp379]

I just received my RCA bolt and carrier and the bolt is too long to fit into the barrel extension. The bolt will fit but then binds up once it starts to cam over into the locked position. I tried it in two different rifles with the same results. Taking the RCA bolt out and swapping it with the bolts from the two rifles worked but I'd like to get a replacement from RCA since the nitride treatment is part of the package.

I sent them a note via their Facebook page. Hopefully I will hear something soon.

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[UWone77]

I just received my RCA bolt and carrier and the bolt is too long to fit into the barrel extension. The bolt will fit but then binds up once it starts to cam over into the locked position. I tried it in two different rifles with the same results. Taking the RCA bolt out and swapping it with the bolts from the two rifles worked but I'd like to get a replacement from RCA since the nitride treatment is part of the package.

I sent them a note via their Facebook page. Hopefully I will hear something soon.

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Keep us updated, RCA seems to be hit and miss with product quality.

[usbp379]

Keep us updated, RCA seems to be hit and miss with product quality.

Will do. Was really looking forward to testing the new bolt and carrier out this morning too. :-(

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[usbp379]

Mr. Cerino replied. He says to mail it back ASAP. I'll update once I've got the parts back from RCA.

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[usbp379]

Mr Cerino sent the BCG back with this note.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/13/yryju7ad.jpg

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[tact]

Mr Cerino sent the BCG back with this note.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/13/yryju7ad.jpg

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Wtf....

[Slippers]

Wow... That is an extremely unprofessional response. If they don't offer you a full refund at this point I hope you used a credit card so you can stop payment.

[usbp379]

Interesting the bolt won't cam into full lock-up in my CMMG 300BLK (what I bought it for) nor in a Ruger (RCA bolt put in Ruger carrier) but it will fit in a Colt 6920. I assume it is on the long side of being in spec. Still, I'm a little taken aback by Cerino's response. I guess I'll contact the vendor I bought it from and see if I can't get a refund.

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[usbp379]

Nope. No dice from the vendor. They do not accept returns.

Anyone want to buy an unused RCA bolt carrier group?

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[UWone77]

Mr Cerino sent the BCG back with this note.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/13/yryju7ad.jpg

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I have no words... other than WOW.

[JGifford]

I have had issues with the last bcg from them I got, as well. I was treated similarly. I had to apply a lot more force than appropriate to administratively clear my Noveske and Daniel Defense rifles after chambering a round. Nearly required mortaring. I was told "maybe you should just write us off" until I told him what the bolt lugs miced, and he agreed to swap bolta. I never did. Just wrote them off. The carrier is nice, though, but screw them.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=134889

[GOST]

With such poor hand writing he should learn to type.

[mustangfreek]

That is unacceptable on their end, i would be pissed.

[usbp379]

I received a NiB bolt and carrier today from Parallax Tactical. The parts fit in my 300BLK without issue.

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[JGifford]

I received similar attitude for a similar problem (bolt VERY sticky when a round is chambered. Almost had to mortar to unload). Won't be buying more.

[UWone77]

I received a NiB bolt and carrier today from Parallax Tactical. The parts fit in my 300BLK without issue.

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So basically after the handwritten note, there was no offer of a refund or exchange... just a sorry, sell the out of spec BCG to someone else?

[usbp379]

So basically after the handwritten note, there was no offer of a refund or exchange... just a sorry, sell the out of spec BCG to someone else?

Afraid so.

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[usbp379]

I received similar attitude for a similar problem (bolt VERY sticky when a round is chambered. Almost had to mortar to unload). Won't be buying more.

Any offer of exchange or refund? If so, I wonder what I did to piss Cerino off.

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[FortTom]

This is one of the craziest things I've seen in a long time when it comes to customer relations and needs. That letter is one of the most amateurish things I've ever seen, and I've seen some really bad stuff go down, in that regard.
Second, you mentioned that the bolt needed lubed and the bolt scraped, two things contrary to the manufacturers claims.

I haven't scraped a bolt since I discovered NiB. I was hyped when I saw the first post or two, but I'm sure glad that I read the whole thread through before I ordered one. It appears Spikes NiB are like everything else, backordered for eternity. Can't find a reputable NiB bolt.

Anyway, thanks for posting the picture of the letter, now I know not to walk, but run, from these foks.

FT

[JGifford]

Any offer of exchange or refund? If so, I wonder what I did to piss Cerino off.

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He offered to echange the bolt after i mic'ed it while talking to him and indeed it varied dimensionally from the ones he had. I decided I would rather not deal with it so i just ate the $200. However, the carrier is very nice.

He did go on and on about how people are picky, hes never had issues with problem parts they send in, and at one point told me "we will honor the warranty but maybe you should just write us off."
So...I have.
I had no desire for a replacement bolt from them.

[usbp379]

I ordered another bolt carrier group from Brownell's and tried it in my 300BLK. The one I just received fits normally in the upper with no issues.

Here's a short I made with my cell phone. Note that the first BCG won't fully seat.

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/th_KVID0294_zpsf1dca4c3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/?action=view&current=KVID0294_zpsf1dca4c3.mp4)

[KevinBLC]

I don't get it. They hosed you and you bought another BCG from them?

[Vic]

Brownells has a solid return policy as opposed to RCA so if he has a problem, he can always return it no questions asked.

[usbp379]

I'm still holding out hope for a successful exchange through Rubber City. I have emailed the president of the company with a brief explanation of the problem. I'm hoping he'll help.

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[KevinBLC]

Brownells has a solid return policy as opposed to RCA so if he has a problem, he can always return it no questions asked.

Still, why would you support a company that screwed you over?

[usbp379]

Still, why would you support a company that screwed you over?

Good question.

For one thing, I now have videotaped proof that not all RCA bolts are the same. I will send the video to them if they continue to say there's no problem with the bolt.

Also, I'm not comfortable taking Mr Cerino's advice to sell the BCG to someone else. I don't want to just pass problem parts on to the next guy. Now it might be that the bolt will fit fine for someone else but what if it doesn't?

RCA needs to be aware of the problem and be held accountable until they make it right. Customer service is everything in the over-saturated AR market. If RCA can't figure that out they don't deserve to stay afloat in my opinion.

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[usbp379]

Okay. I've been in contact with Cerino via email and I sent him a link to the video posted above. He wants me to send the BCG back again for inspection. I'll get it shipped ASAP and will update when I've got more news.

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[usbp379]

The BCG went out this morning via priority mail.

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[JGifford]

Good question.

For one thing, I now have videotaped proof that not all RCA bolts are the same. I will send the video to them if they continue to say there's no problem with the bolt.

Also, I'm not comfortable taking Mr Cerino's advice to sell the BCG to someone else. I don't want to just pass problem parts on to the next guy. Now it might be that the bolt will fit fine for someone else but what if it doesn't?

RCA needs to be aware of the problem and be held accountable until they make it right. Customer service is everything in the over-saturated AR market. If RCA can't figure that out they don't deserve to stay afloat in my opinion.

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It's pretty clear that the customer is the problem in their opinion. Why not buy a DPMS to put that bcg in so you can help two companies at once? Seriously, id just write them off like Cerino told me to do.

I'm sending my problem RCA bolt to another company to dissect.

[usbp379]

Let us know what your company finds out after they've inspected it.

I am not ready to give in to RCA. The bolt carrier group was close to $200 and I'm not ready to write that money off just yet. I could, as you did, buy a new bolt to use in the carrier but I'll probably throw the bolt in the trash and sell the carrier if it doesn't work this time.

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[JGifford]

Let us know what your company finds out after they've inspected it.

I am not ready to give in to RCA. The bolt carrier group was close to $200 and I'm not ready to write that money off just yet. I could, as you did, buy a new bolt to use in the carrier but I'll probably throw the bolt in the trash and sell the carrier if it doesn't work this time.

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The carrier really is nice, imo

[usbp379]

The new bolt carrier group has arrived. This one appears to be slightly different in that it has a nitrided firing pin rather than the chromed pin that was in the other set-up. The carrier key is nicely staked.

I haven't dropped it into my 300 AAC Blackout yet but will see how it fits this afternoon. Hopefully this will resolve any issue and I'll be good to go. I'll update ASAP.

[JGifford]

Let us know what your company finds out after they've inspected it.

I am not ready to give in to RCA. The bolt carrier group was close to $200 and I'm not ready to write that money off just yet. I could, as you did, buy a new bolt to use in the carrier but I'll probably throw the bolt in the trash and sell the carrier if it doesn't work this time.

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Ok,
My guy just came in and told me what’s what with your bolt…Everything is within spec…but it’s either minimum spec or maximum spec, which shouldn’t cause an issue…but may. The cam pin hole is slightly under size, but that comes from the coating.

*The company who performed this service for me will not be disclosed publicly or privately.

[usbp379]

Here's a quick video update:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/th_KVID0312_zps24fa6fa6.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/?action=view&current=KVID0312_zps24fa6fa6.mp4)

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[JGifford]

Here's a quick video update:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/th_KVID0312_zps24fa6fa6.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v221/tokarev/?action=view&current=KVID0312_zps24fa6fa6.mp4)

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Doesn't really matter. Mine did that, too. Try to load a round into the chamber and that's when you have issues. Mine would even load okay, but you try to administratively clear it, and both my factory Noveske and Daniel Defense took all but mortaring to get the round out. That's from HAND cycling SLOWLY. I can only imagine trying to make clear after a drill when the round was crammed in there under normal cycling.

What really bothers me is all of the "across the board" specs on the stuff they are putting out. Why do some bolts work, some don't, etc.? Their tolerances must be massive to allow such variance.

Here is another issue, one with potential safety concerns:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/612998_Rubber_City_Armory_Bolt_out_of_tolerance___ Check_Your_Headspace_.html

[usbp379]

I have not yet tried shooting the rifle with the new bolt in.

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[usbp379]

Not that it means much I guess but I finally purchased a 300BLK NO GO gauge. The bolt doesn't really even start to cam over with the gauge in the chamber. At least I know I don't have excessive headspace.

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[JGifford]

Have you shot the rifle, yet?

[usbp379]

I have not.

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[usbp379]

I finally put a handful of subsonic rounds through my 300BLK with the replacement RCA bolt in place. I had no issues with cycling and the bolt locked back when empty.

I didn't notice any issue with opening the bolt on a chambered round. I don't have a GO gauge so the headspace could be short but the gun seems to work as it should.

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[JGifford]

I'm replacing the rca bolt and carrier groups I bought my friends. The teeth on one bolt are peening pretty noticeably at just a few hundred rounds. No function issues, but that strikes me as no good. Ill post pictures when I get over their way mid january. Junk product imo/ime.

[usbp379]

That's too bad. These look like they've got some potential but the quality control just isn't where it needs to be I guess.

I'll keep a sharp eye on mine.

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[JGifford]

I agree. H&M is a top notch metal processor. They aren't too good at producing bcg components, though, or picking sources for them, and their customer service is a bit passive aggressive.

[usbp379]

...and their customer service is a bit passive aggressive.

Lol!

I actually got a call a few weeks back from Chris Cerino. He called to see if the bolt and carrier was working for me. Unfortunately I didn't recognize the number that popped up on my phone. I figured it was a pollster or telemarketer so I let it go to voicemail.

In RCA's defense I think the industry is awash in rushed production and quality control errors because of the political environment. Hopefully, as things continue to settle down everyone can take a deep breath and get things back on track.


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[JGifford]

Lol!

I actually got a call a few weeks back from Chris Cerino. He called to see if the bolt and carrier was working for me. Unfortunately I didn't recognize the number that popped up on my phone. I figured it was a pollster or telemarketer so I let it go to voicemail.

In RCA's defense I think the industry is awash in rushed production and quality control errors because of the political environment. Hopefully, as things continue to settle down everyone can take a deep breath and get things back on track.


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There is nothing that allows a CS department to say "Well I guess you should just write us off" to me, and to send a signed note to another customer saying that if you don't like it, sell it to someone else. I made excuse after excuse for the junk RCA put out, on multiple forums, hoping they would get it together. Instead, Shade stopped answering the phone, and Chris began. The CS dropped to the quality of the product. I can buy a better BCG for $109 for Ranier Arms if I need one, as far as I am concerned.

Pictures of the peened bolt in about a month and a half.

[usbp379]

I read somewhere that the Noveske shooting team is using the RCA competition bolt carriers in their match guns. That's actually what kind of got me wanting one in the first place. If they're using them there must be some practical benefits.

How many other people have we seen with problems? Have these given the Noveske team any issues?

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[UWone77]

I wouldn't put too much stock in a shooting team's gear to translate into what I'd use. Completely different purposes.

I don't have a RCA BCG, but at some point I did want to try one, because I am a secret, well not so secret fan of whiz-bang coatings that cut down lube and cleaning time. However, with that being said, I see that the RCA is $225. I can buy a Nickel Boron Rainier Arms BCG for $189.99 (not including LE/MIL discount) or a BCM BCG, which in my opinion is the gold standard for phosphate BCG's. At this point, I'm not sure I'd spend the extra money for the RCA. The customer service seems a bit unorthodox.

This past weekend, RCA was offering a free bolt with a purchase of a BCG. That was pretty tempting has I was going to purchase a new bolt for another carrier without one. Forgot about the deal though and missed out.

[JGifford]

I read somewhere that the Noveske shooting team is using the RCA competition bolt carriers in their match guns. That's actually what kind of got me wanting one in the first place. If they're using them there must be some practical benefits.

How many other people have we seen with problems? Have these given the Noveske team any issues?

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I dont know. I'm not particularly worried about what NST is using. I buy quality stuff that I know works. They can use whatever tickles them.

[rob_s]

There's a fairly lengthy thread on M4C regarding these bolt carrier groups. I'll say up front I don't own one, and have no personal experience, but many people in the M4C thread have purchased them.

My biggest concern is that they haven't been consistent based on the pictures that owners have been posting over the last 6 months. Some come with coated firing pins, some don't, and at one point they changed their staking method, then back again when people complained (although it doesn't appear that the different method was ineffective, rather it simply didn't look like the nice staking from a MOACKS). Additionally, RCA said they were going to stop using forged gas keys at some point, and switch to CNC'd gas keys.

Food for thought.

Those who are not required to hold to a standard, rarely do.
-Pat Rogers

[usbp379]

AIM Surplus has what appears to be a very cost effective alternative. Combine this with AIM's friendly staff and it is sure to be a winner.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XAIMBCGV2&name=AIM+BLACK+NITRIDE+.223%2f5.56+AR%2fM16+Bolt+C arrier+Group&groupid=723

[UWone77]

AIM Surplus has what appears to be a very cost effective alternative. Combine this with AIM's friendly staff and it is sure to be a winner.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XAIMBCGV2&name=AIM+BLACK+NITRIDE+.223%2f5.56+AR%2fM16+Bolt+C arrier+Group&groupid=723

Rainier Arms will be releasing a similar type of BCG next year.

[usbp379]

That's good. Rainier is a top notch outfit.



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[JGifford]

AIM Surplus has what appears to be a very cost effective alternative. Combine this with AIM's friendly staff and it is sure to be a winner.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XAIMBCGV2&name=AIM+BLACK+NITRIDE+.223%2f5.56+AR%2fM16+Bolt+C arrier+Group&groupid=723

IMO, that's what went wrong. As long as Shade was handling CS, things were pretty positive. Now we have a guy sending out "Screw you" letters with product, lol

[knights templar]

Isnt Cerino that guy who shot himself in the leg while teaching a handgun course? And never could win on that show Top Shot? No wonder he has a poor attitude.

[JGifford]

As promised. Here is a RCA bolt from the rca bcg that I bought for a friend. It lived in his psa middy and saw less than 500 rounds of pmc xtac m193. Pure junk. Heat treat or something must be off. Bad peening. Crap customer service. Varying dimensions. Pass!!!
http://i41.tinypic.com/2s0bsbb.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2qd5oh5.jpg

[Eric]

Thanks for the update and photos.

[Soisauss]

Rainier Arms will be releasing a similar type of BCG next year.

welp......Guess I know what BCG/BOLT I'll be running in my DMR......

Just received my ICE ARMS BCG and hard to say I am impressed, if any, customer service is also on the brinks.. :/ Live and learn i suppose!

hopefully everything worked out for usbp.


now on to pestering that aims bcg.....UWONE, when you say next year, what range are we talking? Q1, Q2, Q3,Q4?

[JGifford]

I guess my natural question is...why do you feel like a qpq bcg is necessary or even desirable?

[usbp379]

I see that RCA is now selling an adjustable gas key. This appears to be basically a standard key with a small set screw in the back end right in front of the carrier screws. I wonder what's present on the inside of the key to keep the set screw from backing out of adjustment. My fear would be that the screw could walk out and come loose inside the upper! Yikes!

Anyway, the key is available for about $40 alone or it can be bought already installed on either the M16 or competition bolt carriers.

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[Kopis]

I was looking at this BCG for one of my builds when i happened across this old thread. I just reposted it on RCAs facebook page and told them why i won't be buying their products.

[JGifford]

I was looking at this BCG for one of my builds when i happened across this old thread. I just reposted it on RCAs facebook page and told them why i won't be buying their products.

Chris really is the only ass at RCA. Everyone else there is great people. It's frustrating that he's the head guy pretty much.