Billet or forged lower?

[LMMzach]

Hello everyone trying to make my rounds here still but I tried searching a thread for this but no luck.

I am looking to start my first build. I think generally you would start with a lower? Get the ffl stuff out of the way as I'm pretty sure that's the only part that is considered a "weapon"


My question I've been reading a few threads about lowers there seems to be a little depute about billet or forged wondering I I can get some more info on the best for me. Ill just be taking it to the range mostly no comps just yet but I also like my stuff to be as nice as possible

[will0861]

Any quality aluminum product will be forged first, then finished on a CNC machine. When you machine anything out of a raw block of aluminum it will fail along the grains of the aluminum. If it's forged first, then machined to the proper tolerances, it will be much stronger. Only buy a billet receiver if it was forged first. Mil-Spec receivers start as blank forgings, then are finished on a CNC.

Smaller companies like billet because it is cheaper and easier to produce smaller quantities of parts on a CNC machine versus starting with forgings, then finishing with a CNC. Any industry that produces aluminum products will tell you the same thing.


I've worked in the bicycle industry for 15 years, and saw numerous products that were "billet" that failed catastrophically.

Secondly, most of the billet receivers are not made to mil-spec, so you can potentially have issues with magazines not fitting, or pistol grips. The chance of that is small, but possible. The biggest advantage of the AR platform is the adaptability and interchangeability. Once you start using non spec parts, you are giving up some of that practicality.

[LMMzach]

Wow great reply thank you! I was looking at the seekins lower they offer both a forged and billet

[LMMzach]

On seekins site the forged lower is significantly cheaper than the billet? But it also stated that it is designed better than mil spec. The billets also say they will work with mil spec.

[UWone77]

On seekins site the forged lower is significantly cheaper than the billet? But it also stated that it is designed better than mil spec. The billets also say they will work with mil spec.

Before you get all confused with terminology and specs, what is the intended purpose of this rifle? Are you looking more towards aesthetics?

[LMMzach]

More of a shoot for fun/ just incase shtf gun. I don't want it to break that's for certain but I won't be entering and comps or anything most likely

[Computalotapus]

There are companies that make quality billet receivers. I personally like the forged. And I tend to pick up the blemished receivers at a great discount.

I'm gonna shoot them and I plan on running them hard in some instructor led courses. They are going to get beat up so a blemish doesn't bother me.

Billets are sexy don't get me wrong. When shit hits the fan I don't need it to look sexy I just need it to work. When and if I do start shooting competition I might want it to look as sexy as it shoots.

But I don't know 10% of what the people here know so I ask before I make a decision and weigh the pros and cons based on my needs and wants.

[UWone77]

More of a shoot for fun/ just incase shtf gun. I don't want it to break that's for certain but I won't be entering and comps or anything most likely

Do you own any other AR's?

Personally, I would go with a forged lower as they in my opinion/experience match up better with more uppers. Billet lowers/uppers sometimes have a hard fit with other lowers/uppers. As previously mentioned Forged lowers are stronger as well.

If you want a good combination of function and form, I'd strongly look at the Mega Arms Forged set or their Billet Set, if you were set on Billet.

[will0861]

On seekins site the forged lower is significantly cheaper than the billet? But it also stated that it is designed better than mil spec. The billets also say they will work with mil spec.

Mil-Spec forged lowers are cheaper because there are only a few companies that actually forge the lowers. They simply roll mark any brand that pays them. Besides, the mil-spec design R&D was pair for a long time ago, so the companies don't have to include their R&D expenses in the cost like companies than manufacture their own designs.

Billet lowers can be made in more intricate designs, so in that sense they are better, but in my opinion the lower has the least impact on how a rifle fires. You'd be better off spending $150 on a standard mil-spec lower and then taking the money you saved and buy a better stock, put it towards a nice optic. Or a better trigger, or a high end rail system like a Larue, or Daniel Defense.

[LMMzach]

I do not own any ar at the moment have shot them. I'm not set on anything I just liked the cut outs on the seekins I was looking into mega I see a lot of talk about them on here. Billet or forged I just want to make sure I get the right thing. I figured billet being more expensive than forged would be better?


I was also reading that the magpul lower is like a collectors item the best lower to get and it is billet so that also had me confused I guess ill keep on reading. Thanks a ton for the replies tho if you have any further info don't be afraid to school me I'm here to learn

[LMMzach]

I also like to help out a smaller but good quality company if I can someone that doesn't try to mass produce and take good time in their work

[rob_s]

Typically the only reason to opt for billet is aesthetics. Previously there were *some* companies that offered features on billet lowers (such as a greater flare on the inside of the magwell for easier loading) without also jacking the whole thing up with other, questionable, "features". With the introduction of the Noveske gen 2 lowers there became even less reason to buy billet.

One thing I've observed with many first time buyers is a confusion about the relationship between cost and quality. A lot of guys looks at the price of billet and the price of forged and automatically assume that the billet must somehow be better. Unless the function of e rifle is to separate you from your money or boast about how expensive the rifle is, there is absolutely no functional benefit to billet over forged.

If you're lucky, one day you'll get really serious about actually shooting the gun, and its really only then that you start to realize the frivolity of the Barbie guns.

[LMMzach]

Great thank you. I don't want to fall into getting something I don't want I admit I don't know much about this right now that's why I'm asking. What in going for is just good quality parts without buying something twiceto get it. a lot of the time higher cost comes with better quality I understand now that the billets may cost more due to all the extra machining involved. I appreciate your time and reply thank you

[Stickman]

I would stick with a forged. A billet provides nothing more than less compatibility with other receivers, magazines, and higher cost.

If you already had 10 AR's in the safe and just wanted a fun build, sure go with a Billet.

[chazthebiker]

If you're lucky, one day you'll get really serious about actually shooting the gun, and its really only then that you start to realize the frivolity of the Barbie guns.

LOL! Please. A man buys what he likes. They both function very well (forged vs. billet). But to insult many of the members here and call their billet rifles "Barbie" guns? Just stop it.

To the OP: Get what you want and what your budget allows. Both billet and forged will work well. If you choose billet, I would purchase a matching billet upper. That's me. Do what you want.

I have 2 billet rifles and one forged. They are all great rifles. If you choose forged and some guy with a billet rifle comes along and says it's for trailer trash and not as good as his "Barbie" gun... just tell him to stop it.

You have the freedom to be frivolous or not. Frivolity is in the eye, and wallet, of the beholder.

Get what you want and have fun. The Seekins upper and lower are beautiful. I'm sure they function just fine. [:D]

[chazthebiker]

I would stick with a forged. A billet provides nothing more than less compatibility with other receivers, magazines, and higher cost.

If you already had 10 AR's in the safe and just wanted a fun build, sure go with a Billet.

Good advice.

[rob_s]

LOL! Please. A man buys what he likes. They both function very well (forged vs. billet). But to insult many of the members here and call their billet rifles "Barbie" guns? Just stop it.



I guess you're sensitive about your barbie guns.

My point wasn't that all billet guns are barbie guns, but that most people buy ARs the way little girls buy barbies: as a host for new outfits and accessories. This is evidenced in every new gizmo thread where people with perfectly functional old-busted gizmos go clamoring for the new-hotness.

Buying guns for aesthetic reasons is silly. But people are free to be silly with their own money (I do, however, wish they would quit claiming that it's anything other than silly). The OP asked if there was any benefit and the answer is no, there is not. Except for the barbie crowd, to whom the benefit is solely aesthetic.

My point was that the surest cure for all that "frivolity" is to get out and shoot. I don't know of any serious shooters that still have that childish view of their guns as some thing to be barbied up. I do know a lot of volume shooters that still shoot just as badly as the day they started who continue to burn up ammo and cash. But the best way to get cured of barbie-ism is to transfer the obsession with expensive toys to an obsession with building a skill and progressing that skill.

[LMMzach]

Thanks for the replies guys and stickman's straight forward Answer was pretty helpful.

I guess I didn't notice that guys smart comment I expect to get some answers like that I'm probably asking a pretty simple question in the eyes of you guys. I'm just trying to figure things out and do it the right way first rather than hate my gun that I spent hard earned money on.

[LMMzach]

I've been watching a lot of reviews in YouTube looks like its either a mega or a seekins forged lower for my first ar build ill probably start a build thread maybe help a guy out down the road in my position

[Vic]

LMMzach,

Much like you, I'm not building a race gun but rather a casual recreational rifle that will be reliable. Because of this, I just recently went with a Mega forged upper and lower for my first AR build as it was inexpensive and met my needs. The lower is listed for ~$130 on RA's digital storefront and the Seekins is listed for ~$180. I was able to handle several different forged lowers and didn't see the need to spend the extra $50, but you may feel differently as you may notice something I didn't.

[LMMzach]

Thanks I I think seekins has not made a forged upper yet so I might as well go with the mega anyway just to get a matching upper.


Where should I look for a good parts kit for the lower?

[Computalotapus]

Thanks I I think seekins has not made a forged upper yet so I might as well go with the mega anyway just to get a matching upper.


Where should I look for a good parts kit for the lower?

I picked up my lower parts kit from Phase 5 Tactical. I was really impressed with the trigger that came in the kit but I could have gotten lucky. Rainier Arms is a great place to start looking for all the parts for your build.

[Vic]

LMMzach,

Honestly, I would take a look at any of the retailers on the left-hand side of the page as avaliability and prices can vary from store to store. I've done business with Bravo Company, Rainier Arms, and SKD recently, but they all should be reputable retailers. Labor Day is approaching and there should be some sales as well. Personally, I decided on the JP Lower Parts Kit - Minus Trigger Assembly from Rainier Arms as I plan on getting the ALG ACT trigger.

[LMMzach]

Thanks man I usually get on here from my phone in an app so I never noticed the dealers along the side I will check it out on a computer tho. Thinking I'm going to place an order by the end of the week doing a little more digging and research see what I all want to get first.


Also bad news mega forged uppers are on Back order everywhere I looked:( ill keep searchin tho thanks for the input!

[chazthebiker]

I guess you're sensitive about your barbie guns.

My point wasn't that all billet guns are barbie guns, but that most people buy ARs the way little girls buy barbies: as a host for new outfits and accessories. This is evidenced in every new gizmo thread where people with perfectly functional old-busted gizmos go clamoring for the new-hotness.

Buying guns for aesthetic reasons is silly.

Wow Rob. I've never known you to be this nasty. If your point was that there is no functional difference then that is what you should have said... as I did. That is not what you did. Let me ask you: Does the color of your car matter? What about air conditioning? Do you wax the paint even though that has no influence on whether the car's function of transporting you from point A to B is accomplished? Point is that someone, somewhere would see all those features as frivolous. Yet somehow they manage to go through life without being nasty. And how do you know that MOST people buy ARs the way "little girls buy barbies?" Most people do not post on websites like these. So, there is no possible way that Rob knows what most people do or why.

No Rob, I am not sensitive about what I have. Not at all. I just have a problem with guys that want to be nasty. There are many advertisers on this website. They sell lots of gear. What may serve a purpose for one person does not for another. You are free to think that aesthetics are silly. However, I know of nobody that says his billet rifle shoots better than forged or the other way around. You would know better since you know MOST AR owners.... tens of millions of them. That includes the hundreds on this website that own forged and billet rifles. You KNOW why they got what they got, because they want to play dress-up. Just stop it.

To the OP: Rob knows a lot of good stuff too. He does. I think he authored "the chart" (extremely good information). But sometimes he can say something silly and insulting and then doesn't know how to be gracious and just back out of it. Believe me, the paint on his car is probably just as shiny as that of the next guy's. Probably mows his yard and plant flowers too. Truth be told... Rob likes the way his guns look. I know that's an aesthetics thing, but he does. He even likes his food to look appetizing, even though it has no bearing on nutritional value or how things turn out in the end.

Billet or forged are good to go. Billet may double the cost of your upper / lower combo (maybe more than double if you choose really inexpensive forged parts), but billet isn't prohibitively more expensive. Now, you can get a titanium upper / lower for about $20,000. For a little more you can get it tie-dyed. Is that frivolous? Not if you have the money. Is it unnecessary? From a purely functional standpoint, yes. Unnecessary to function properly... which is a completely different definition than frivolous. Would a Ti rifle be a "Barbie" gun? No. It would be awesome.

[LMMzach]

Great reply Chaz thank you! As for titanium I think 20,000 is a little out of the price range haha. I think I'm going to go forged on my first rifle like a few suggested for the reason that they are mil spec and a little cheaper to start. Maybe down the road ill pick up a billet and do some "Barbie" stuff with it if you will:p no offense Rob just havin fun.

[MoxyDave]

I own both billet and forged parts. The guns I shoot are forged. The billet guns are fondled and looked at. They mostly sit in the safe. I'm still glad I bought them, but they are heavier and I tend to be a sissy about them if I bring them out - don't wanna scratch that gorgeous lower! So it really depends on the purpose.

Personally I believe you can own something just to look at and mess with; not everything has to have some hard-hitting real-world purpose. Much like art, beauty (and utility) is in the eye of the beholder.

[chazthebiker]

Rainier Arms has Mega forged lowers and uppers in stock tonight. Mega makes great stuff. I cannot recommend the people at Rainier Arms more highly. www.rainierarms.com I've also seen Rainier's lowers and uppers. They are also very nice.

[UWone77]

Rainier Arms has Mega forged lowers and uppers in stock tonight. Mega makes great stuff. I cannot recommend the people at Rainier Arms more highly. www.rainierarms.com I've also seen Rainier's lowers and uppers. They are also very nice.

Just picked up a Rainier Arms lower tonight at Rainier. They are made by MEGA, so the same great quality. Like I originally said, I'd stick with a Forged Upper/Lower. MEGA is a great start, so are countless others.

[Smac61]

Not a big billet fan here, nothing wrong with them, just not my cup of tea. I use Mega forged sets almost exclusively now but have used Stags, Aero, and Tactical Machining lowers in the past. All were good to go. If I wanted to do something "special" I would get a Noveske Gen II.

[KevinBLC]

I have some nice factory guns, Colt & BCM, but now that I'm starting to build or thinking about building my own rifles, I like the looks of billet. Yeah I get that it's more for looks, but I think it's ok to have some fun builds if you already have some good rifles.

[jlcudal]

It's up to you.

this is one of those "to each his own" moments.

Lower Receivers come in different ways nowadays, how about getting a feel for them before you make a purchase.

I wasn't too keen on those poly lowers, until I tried one. The trigger broke like a polymer pistol! Now... I still don't happen to own one, but have considered it ever since I tried it.

The Seekins precision looks too much like it need attention for me. I wouldn't turn one down, but I prefer the Mega Arms Billet Lower's hard lines.

[LMMzach]

Rainier Arms has Mega forged lowers and uppers in stock tonight. Mega makes great stuff. I cannot recommend the people at Rainier Arms more highly. www.rainierarms.com I've also seen Rainier's lowers and uppers. They are also very nice.

Still not seeing the forged uppers in stock on rainers site maybe ill shoot them an email

[mustangfreek]

Still not seeing the forged uppers in stock on rainers site maybe ill shoot them an email

Damnit i shouldnt have looked, as i need a mega upper also, and what do you know rainier has a pile of mega forged uppers in stock..

https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=189

[LMMzach]

Wow that sucks I ordered Rainer upper and lower

[mustangfreek]

Wow that sucks I ordered Rainer upper and lower

Order more...lol....rainier stuff is good to go as everyone knows

I know im probably going to, but will have to wait a few days to see whats left for "play money"

[LMMzach]

Order more...lol....rainier stuff is good to go as everyone knows

I know im probably going to, but will have to wait a few days to see whats left for "play money"

Yeah I didn't mean to sound like I was complaining I am happy with it just sucks I emailed them they said no eta two days later its there lol. I'm not sure what I'm going to get next probably all of my lower parts before I venture into the barrel n expensive stuff:p

[UWone77]

I know I keep preaching forged, but I just picked up 2 Billets today.

[mustangfreek]

I know I keep preaching forged, but I just picked up 2 Billets today.

Megas? their OOS the site says? I have considered a mega billet for my mega forged, but not sure how good they will mate up, so probably just gonna rock a forged setup on this one.

[UWone77]

Megas? their OOS the site says? I have considered a mega billet for my mega forged, but not sure how good they will mate up, so probably just gonna rock a forged setup on this one.

Bingo, Mega Billet and also a CMT Tactical Set. I'm not going to the lie, the Mega was strictly for appearance as it will be for a "fun" build.

[LMMzach]

Ill probably get a billet for the next build just to try both

[Vic]

Bingo, Mega Billet and also a CMT Tactical Set. I'm not going to the lie, the Mega was strictly for appearance as it will be for a "fun" build.

The CMT Tactical Set looks pretty good. Did you get it in the Desert Bronze?

[UWone77]

The CMT Tactical Set looks pretty good. Did you get it in the Desert Bronze?

Uhhh... Both?


http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/IMG_0385_zpsf083f747.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/IMG_0385_zpsf083f747.jpg.html)

[Vic]

Well played, sir, well played.

[mustangfreek]

Well played, sir, well played.

More like show off..lol

[:D].......[BD]

[UWone77]

More like show off..lol

[:D].......[BD]

If I wanted to show off, I'd show you the 5 other sets [:D]

[Computalotapus]

If I wanted to show off, I'd show you the 5 other sets [:D]

Will you adopt me? Haha. Honestly I might not get them as fast but I am hooked. I think there will always be a build project going on for me until I can't build anymore. 2 more AR's for my girls. I would like to put together a rifle and beretta 92sf set together for my brother who is current USAF Security Forces ( MSGT ) one for my oldest brother who is left handed. Maybe a M-14 from Smith Enterprises. So many options and I got time

[mustangfreek]

If I wanted to show off, I'd show you the 5 other sets [:D]

Damnit...always got to get the last word in dont ya.......lol.