NIB or phosphate BCG

[mustangfreek]

I know its probably been beat to death, but im gonna ask anyways.

Nickle boron vs phosphate bcg, is the NB just better in all ways?

Im thinking of selling off my phosph. BCG and picking up a NB one from rainier, but need a little help swaying me that way..

[UWone77]

It's hard to quantify "better"

Is NiB slicker than Phosphate? Yes. Does it require less lube? Yes. Is it easier to clean? Yes. Is it worth it? That's where it gets a little dicey. If you're not running a suppressed gun, I wouldn't consider it, esepcially if your phosphate carrier is doing the job.

[FortTom]

It's hard to quantify "better"

Is NiB slicker than Phosphate? Yes. Does it require less lube? Yes. Is it easier to clean? Yes. Is it worth it? That's where it gets a little dicey. If you're not running a suppressed gun, I wouldn't consider it, esepcially if your phosphate carrier is doing the job.

UWone77, this is probably the one and only time that I would disagree, to an extent, that the gap between the better of the two is small, as far a positive attributes. NiB is also much cooler running. I read this from some lab reports, but verified it with the temp probe on my fluke meter. 60 rounds with NiB and 60 rounds phosphate. I'll try to find my little note pad, where I recorded everything (I did a pretty thorough test between the two), but found that although the question pops up, not to many folks really care, when the results are posted.

I do have the credentials to test the two, I have a BSME from U of Dayton, did a lot of work in cermic and other metallurgical coatings, and liason between ME and QC. CAVEAT: I don't have any illusions of qualifying as an armorer or Master Gunsmith, but many of the experiences are directly rated.

Since I bought my first NiB, which I fell in love with, and have since completed another while recuperating from herniated discs and fused vertebrae in my neck, before I can test the latest bolt. Will be almost 2 months before I can go to range and test.

Actually, I don't want to bore the crap out of everyone with what I found in every nook and cranny but your post is typical. (I don't mean this in a cynical way). Is it slicker ? A: yes. However, the degree to that it is slicker is not brought up, and that attribute can and does make a large difference depending on the "slickness", or I think more accurately "lubricity". Since no quantitative value is given for either, and from either, me or you, the amount of benefit here in this post is unknown.

Total delta between delta of a cold NiB and Hot NiB is significantly wider than the same test with a phosphate.

Does it require less lube? My first bolt, which for now I'll keep under my hat unless someone is interested is yes. A big yes. Part A recommends very little lube per 3K rounds. Part B, with a slightly different formula and technique (with an exothermic coating being the key difference here) recommends NO lube, or nothing more than a very thin wipe down every 5K or so.

This in itself has gotten the attention of MIL/PRO/GOV'T/Private organizations who operate in the desert where "dust" is fine almost fine enough to brush your teeth with.

Cleaning? Well that's the part I really love, a shot of gun scrubber and my thumb nail just about does it.

In closing UWone77, I've not covered much, because each step opens another flight of stairs. I am also absolutely not minimizing your observation or insights. I'm just saying that in GENERAL, when this subject pops up, either the questions or the answers are to oversimplified to give the prospective buyer much info to go on to. Price is one consideration, I paid $210 for one, and $240 for another, whose parent company does a great deal of the coating for other bolt makers.
And now, another coating, I forget it's name, now used in the entire lower, parts kit, pins etc. says to NEVER , Ever use any lube. Hype or Truth? We'll see. I'll use NiB until something new comes out that's better.

Here would be my 3 criteria for someone with absolutely no interest in metallurgy, Non destructive testing, Destructive testing and a whole lab's worth of goodies to work with.
A - If money is no object, go with the NiB, hands down.
B- You really don't shoot more than 2 or 3 mag's at a time - phosphorus will work just as good as it always has.
C- Want to see for your self....if you have access to a lab, or just want to do some Non-destructive testing side by side, and can afford both, go for it.
D-If you don't have one already, buy or borrow the latest version of Machineries Handbook #29. Won't make you an engineer, but will cover just about any question, problem etc. related in building or manufacturing from about every obtainable on earth, polymers, different steels, to what kind of screw to use, to you name it. It's 2000+ pages, but you don't have to read every page, just look up by category as you need.

Again I'll humble myself and absolutely not belittle your response, but this question pops up so much that I'd like to see someone do a whole paper on the subject and sticky it.

Hope I helped more than hurt or confused and good shooting finding out by the best test, the one I call "trigger pull".

Have fun,
FT[:D]

[UWone77]

FT,

Your points well taken. I was more or less answering mustangs question in the terms of... he already has a phosphate carrier that seems to work. Is it going to benefit him from a cost/benefit stand point of getting rid of a phosphate carrier that already works and "upgrading" to a NiB? In that case I would say no. I don't think he's going to see $200 worth of value in that senario. It's hard to quanify how many more rounds or how much less lube he's going to get.

Don't get me wrong. I am a huge fan of Nickel Boron. I run over 20 NiB carriers in various suppressed setups. The lazy cop in me loves how easy they clean up.

I'm actually building up a Nickel Boron coated upper/lower as we speak and will be updating it on my other thread. I want to run it hard without lube and see how many more rounds I can get and try to quantify the benefits of NiB.

Thanks for the thoughtout response.

[FortTom]

Not having to clean the damned thing (phosphate baked on carbon with lube) is way more justification than I need...

[:D][:D][:D]

FT

[mustangfreek]

FT,

Your points well taken. I was more or less answering mustangs question in the terms of... he already has a phosphate carrier that seems to work. Is it going to benefit him from a cost/benefit stand point of getting rid of a phosphate carrier that already works and "upgrading" to a NiB? In that case I would say no. I don't think he's going to see $200 worth of value in that senario. It's hard to quanify how many more rounds or how much less lube he's going to get.

Don't get me wrong. I am a huge fan of Nickel Boron. I run over 20 NiB carriers in various suppressed setups. The lazy cop in me loves how easy they clean up.

I'm actually building up a Nickel Boron coated upper/lower as we speak and will be updating it on my other thread. I want to run it hard without lube and see how many more rounds I can get and try to quantify the benefits of NiB.

Thanks for the thoughtout response.


You suck......

..lol

[UWone77]

You suck......

..lol


Jason,

I put together a care package for you. Quit yer whining :P

[mustangfreek]

I wasnt whining...lol

Forgot to mention, quite a bit of info there FT, thanks.

[Stickman]

If you already have the phosphate and it's working for you, keep using it. You can always put a Nickel Boron BCG in the next build, which you know you'll inevitably do.

[mustangfreek]

If you already have the phosphate and it's working for you, keep using it. You can always put a Nickel Boron BCG in the next build, which you know you'll inevitably do.

Yes, i have been bitten badly by the BRD bug....

[JGifford]

I'm not a fan. It isnt.because I feel the coating inferior or of no value, but that some things such as the cam pin are held to 0.0015"+- tolerances, etc. If every tolerance and coating thickness is not accounted for...are dimensional flaws worth the coating? To me, no. The milspec bcg continues to perform excellently. The only bcg that has made me waffle was the rubber city armory qpq bcg. I bought several of their very first run, and was highly impressed. Then they changed machine shops, and the tolerences and consistency went out the door.
Long and short is that ive fired plenty of rounds downrange from milspec bcg and it works fine. Even Mike Pannone would rather use a quality clp than have some wundercoated bcg.

[UWone77]

I'm not a fan. It isnt.because I feel the coating inferior or of no value, but that some things such as the cam pin are held to 0.0015"+- tolerances, etc. If every tolerance and coating thickness is not accounted for...are dimensional flaws worth the coating? To me, no. The milspec bcg continues to perform excellently. The only bcg that has made me waffle was the rubber city armory qpq bcg. I bought several of their very first run, and was highly impressed. Then they changed machine shops, and the tolerences and consistency went out the door.
Long and short is that ive fired plenty of rounds downrange from milspec bcg and it works fine. Even Mike Pannone would rather use a quality clp than have some wundercoated bcg.

I've only run into issues with coated carriers on those that weren't built from the ground up. I agree that the tolerances may not always be accounted for when a phosphate carrier is being coated. I've run into issues where I've sent certain lower parts to be coated, only to come back and realize they are now out of spec. Lesson learned.

With that being said, I've had zero issues with out of spec carriers that were built from the ground up and have always meant to be coated. Your mileage will of course vary with the kind of shooting you do.

[Stickman]

Yes, i have been bitten badly by the BRD bug....

Welcome to the club. Your stay will be long and expensive.

[mustangfreek]

Welcome to the club. Your stay will be long and expensive.

LOL...So true ever since i came over here i have way too many ideas..haha

[Stickman]

LOL...So true ever since i came over here i have way too many ideas..haha

So maybe I missed it, did you go with a new Nickel Boron Carrier? Or did you get too busy buying items for new builds?

[mustangfreek]

A few little things here and there..got a slow build im trying to do for a family member, all while keep up with my wants..lol

Told the woman what i wanted for x-mas was Rainier Arms gift certificates..for more stuff....Uhh...this is addicting..lol

[UWone77]

A few little things here and there..got a slow build im trying to do for a family member, all while keep up with my wants..lol

Told the woman what i wanted for x-mas was Rainier Arms gift certificates..for more stuff....Uhh...this is addicting..lol

Which is good timing... since Rainier is having their Christmas Sale. Coupon code "2013" for additional discounts already on-sale items. I'm down for the $99 Phosphate BCG!

[mustangfreek]

Which is good timing... since Rainier is having their Christmas Sale. Coupon code "2013" for additional discounts already on-sale items. I'm down for the $99 Phosphate BCG!

Holidays and kids birthdays, means no extra monies right now for goodies..thats a good deal though..