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View Full Version : How many times can you re-chamber a duty round?



Eric
1 February 2014, 01:31
About 10 years ago I arrived at my agency's range for rifle training, which began with shooting a rifle qual course. This included shooting up the currently issued duty ammo I was carrying. During the first course of fire, I encountered a deafening click instead of a bang. A primary malfunction clearance resolved the issue and I pressed on. I later recovered the round that had failed to fire and found that it had a solid primer hit and would not fire after additional attempts. I didn't feel especially warm and fuzzy knowing that the first round in my duty mag wasn't going to fire if I had needed it.

Was the round defective from the factory or had I done something to induce the failure? Obviously there's no way to know, but this experience is something I make reference to when reminding our folks to not reuse ejected rounds for duty. The idea is that the free-floating firing pin lightly contacts the primer each time the round is chambered (we've all seen the small dimple mark left) and after this occurring several times, the primer material is chipped way compromising reliable ignition.

So, how many times can a round be re-chambered before it fails to fire? Picture an officer on a busy shift in a high crime area, who breaks his patrol rifle out on a regular basis. It would not be unreasonable to have chambered a round twenty times before he is issued fresh ammo. If the officer were to reuse that same chambered round each time, would it still fire? I certainly don't know.

A few days ago this unresolved question popped into my head while at the range, so I re-chambered two different rounds twenty-five times each, shown in the photo below. Both had impact marks deeper than those from a single chambering, yet not as deep as a being struck when the trigger is pulled. It turns out, both rounds fired just fine. I tried again and chambered each round fifty times, with the same results. By then, I had lost daylight and the public range I was on was closing, but I'm curious to try the test with a higher number of cycles.

Has anyone studied this in detail, perhaps testing to the failure point? A lot of variables could come into play, as far as the type of round (mil-spec primer vs. commercial) and specs on the rifle.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/AR15forme/IMG_3397.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/AR15forme/media/IMG_3397.jpg.html)

AR-10
1 February 2014, 09:25
Couldn't you avoid this altogether by simply riding the charging handle and using the FA to get it into battery rather than letting go of it and allowing the bolt to slam home?

What about bullet setback, I'd be concerned about this if I had to chamber the same round over and over.

zero7one
1 February 2014, 13:19
Good write up...as we tell our guys...don't rechamber the round for duty use. When that first round could mean winning or losing a gunfight, don't chance it with a .50 cent round of ammo. That is why we issue spare ammo to our officers so they can swap out when they chamber the round. That ammo then becomes training ammo. I would like to see this same test done over a period of time. For example, chamber a single round 5 times a day for a week, then 2 weeks. Maybe the primer will chip away inside, but over time it may actually start to dissolve due to exposure. Don't know how it would turn out, but should be a fairly easy test to complete.

zero7one
1 February 2014, 13:20
Also....try different types of ammo as one brand may hold up better than others.

Judicator
1 February 2014, 18:09
Ar10 has a point. I know on my carry pistol, I would chamber the same round after a day at the range. One day i looked and the round set back pretty far.
As for rifle I would worry more on the bullet pulling out of the casing a bit because as we all should know is bottleneck cases chamber on the shoulder.

Eric
1 February 2014, 18:45
Couldn't you avoid this altogether by simply riding the charging handle.
Could you, sure. However, not a technique that is taught by anyone. You should be in the habit of chambering the round that same way every time, which is by letting the BCG slam into battery under full force from the fully compressed spring. By easing the charging handle forward your far more likely to induce a malfunction.

AR-10
1 February 2014, 19:34
That's a good point about the bottlenecked cases, but the bullet is still being shoved up a pretty steep feed ramp.

Even bullets that have been crimped and have a cannelure can begin to push back into the case.

DMViergever
2 February 2014, 03:51
A bottle knecked round can still get a beat up shoulder and cause pressure issues also. I am curious if over time, on non crimped ammo, if the repeated primer taps can cause the primer to be set back or pushed in further. That wouldn't allow a solid primer ignition.

tappedandtagged
2 February 2014, 08:45
Couldn't you avoid this altogether by simply riding the charging handle and using the FA to get it into battery rather than letting go of it and allowing the bolt to slam home?

What about bullet setback, I'd be concerned about this if I had to chamber the same round over and over.

That's exactly what I do when I need to deploy my duty rifle. I've carried it over to my hunting ammo as well.

And Eric, I understand what you're saying about letting it slam forward to ensure the round is chambered and the bolt locked, but the FA isn't just for looks. I don't deploy my patrol rifle often, but I do often enough that I don't want to go running to my Capt asking for an extra box of $40 duty ammo every year, ecspecially when I can avoid the dimple altogether. Ease the bolt forward, slam the FA three times (only takes one hit, but the other two are insurance). I am confident this works as I have tried it on numerous pig hunting trips and have never had a user created malfunction from riding the bolt forward and then using the FA.

Now when I don't have the time to charge my rifle in this manner, sure I pull back and let go, but the majority of my rifle deployments are expected (high risk warrants, barricaded subject, etc). In these, I can afford the extra 7 seconds to charge my rifle safely and keep my duty round in like new condition. Trust me, when you slam the FA as hard as I do and the BCG doesn't move, the round IS FULLY CHAMBERED and will fire. Very easy to do without causing malfunctions.

tappedandtagged
2 February 2014, 08:47
A bottle knecked round can still get a beat up shoulder and cause pressure issues also. I am curious if over time, on non crimped ammo, if the repeated primer taps can cause the primer to be set back or pushed in further. That wouldn't allow a solid primer ignition.

The primers can't be set back. They're firmly bottomed out in the primer pocket. If you have a primer that's set in that far the primer is crushed. From reloading experience, I know it's very hard to crush a primer. A floating firing pin isn't going to do it.

AR-10
2 February 2014, 10:56
I pulled the three on the right out of my junk pile, no idea how many times they were chambered:

http://imageshack.com/a/img31/2015/pzwh.jpg

Judicator
2 February 2014, 16:48
I pulled the three on the right out of my junk pile, no idea how many times they were chambered:

http://imageshack.com/a/img31/2015/pzwh.jpg

Wow hahaha that's crazy. I would have (like I stated before) figured the bullet to pull not set back.