Interest in Key Mod rails?

[FortTom]

Just curious. I'm the first kid on my block to take the plunge and go for a Key Mod upper. Really, there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest around here in N. KY amongst AR shooters to purchase a new key mod rail or upper. A few are very "excited" by them, but not many.

Just thought you might give your opinion yea or nay and general location.

Thanks,
FT

[UWone77]

Locally, I haven't noticed the keymod interest as much. Most of the shooters I know don't have the money to buy new uppers or the latest rails and swap them out. Since more and more manufacturers are putting out keymods, I'm sure it's only a matter of time before you see a lot more out there. Personally, I still like quality quad rails for my working guns.

[FortTom]

I don't think they're going to set the world on fire anytime soon. Even on this forum, 70 views and one reply either way. I would gauge that interest level as slightly below zero. I was more curious, as to how attachments would change. But if the market for keymod rails is limited, that will be the driver for attachments and options. Actually, the only things I have planned is the Impact QD sling swivel and the Noveske hand stop. The MBUS and Aimpoint will go on the only rail. The selling point for me was the much slimmer profile and weight. I guess I'll have to wait a year or two and see if they take off, or just die and go away.

FT.

[GOST]

Keymod interest would probably pick up with the general population if magpul started making keymod accessories.

[KevinBLC]

I'm not interested in keymod mainly because I have 3 quad rails on my rifles and what is keymod doing for me that a quad rail won't? Until that mystery is solved, I'm not interested.

[NORTEXED]

I purchased my LE6920 MP FDE right after Christmas because I liked the color. Then started adding "Screwed on" rails for stuff, , then ordered a Troy DI FDE Battlerail. If you're not going to put anything on one , the keymods would be fine, I just like the option of adding stuff and moving it around as I find it works better.

[RiverRat]

FT,

First and foremost, remember that anyone reading this forum is already looking at higher-end product, compared against the average buyer. When folks actually post here, you're starting to really skew published opinions toward higher-end components, extravagant purchases and early adoption (unless you wear a yellow hat with a big hole in the middle).

That said, I don't see any incentive for people to adopt this system right now. Keymod the Betamax of the AR15 world (it's better, but not adopted).

Here's why:

- It's not really passing lower CNC/production costs along to the consumer. In fact, since most Keymod systems are low volume items and/or boutique-produced, retail cost is usually a significant disincentive to adoption (2 exceptions exist) .

- Direct-mount accessories are few and far between. Maybe I'm not up to speed on all available options, but I know of only one Keymod light mount and no direct AFG/VFG. I'm sure as heck not going to spec Keymod just so I can attach Noveske rail covers.

- Keymod's 1913 rail sections have more pieces than other slick tubes' rail sections - which starts to erode weight savings. If I can run truly slick, Keymod might make sense - not because it's Keymod but because it is lightweight.

All this leads me to think the real problem is that accessory producers are waiting to see how many Keymod rails sell, but Keymod won't sell unless there are direct-mount accessories. Catch-22. For the system to really gain traction, I think one of 2 things must happen.

- Magpul takes the plunge on direct Keymod VFG/AVGs. They have large enough presence with both LGS and OEM builders to actually impact the market.

- BCM introduces their Keymod stubby VFG AND BCM/EAG collaborates with Surefire on a direct Keymod 1" mount. Since SF already produces a Fury light to EAG's specs and Eric's at BCM these days, this scenario doesn't seem too far-fetched.

All that said, I did just buy a Rainer Force rail - but that's mostly cause I needed a 9"-10" forearm, it's reasonably priced and I think the truss cutouts are attractive. Since my hand rotates toward vertical on SBRs and AR pistols, I'll probably be stacking the craptastic Keymod-1913-AVG interface. If I end you hating that, I'll sell the Force and pick up either a Fortis or Centurion fore arm with a real bottom rail.

Cheers.

[Slippers]

FT,

- It's not really passing lower CNC/production costs along to the consumer. In fact, since most Keymod systems are low volume items and/or boutique-produced, retail cost is usually a significant disincentive to adoption (2 exceptions exist) .

- Direct-mount accessories are few and far between. Maybe I'm not up to speed on all available options, but I know of only one Keymod light mount and no direct AFG/VFG. I'm sure as heck not going to spec Keymod just so I can attach Noveske rail covers.

- Keymod's 1913 rail sections have more pieces than other slick tubes' rail sections - which starts to erode weight savings. If I can run truly slick, Keymod might make sense - not because it's Keymod but because it is lightweight.



Re: CNC/Production costs: I can't really agree. For the most part, high-end 1913 rail systems cost quite a bit more than any of the keymod systems. For example, the DD lite rail III goes for $395, the II version for $399, and the RIS II for the same. The Centurion Arms C4 starts at $295 for the 12" model and gets more expensive for the cutout versions.

Compare this to a Noveske NSR which is $265 for the 13.5", or the Rainier Arms Force 12" which is $180. Even the Fortis Rev is only $200, although it's a hybrid keymod. Yes, some are just as expensive as the 1913 rails, like the Geissele that isn't quite available yet, but in general keymod tends to be cheaper.


Re: Keymod accessory availability: As of today direct mount accessories are easily found, except for a VFG. There are tons of sling mounts, panels, hand stops, and even light mounts. Heck there are even keymod sling swivel adapters for use with harris bipods, amongst other things.

Light mounts that I know of:
- 3 mounts from IWC: the Thorntail for Scout M600, M620, and then a ring mount with 0.830", 1", and 1.030" adapters
- 2 mounts from Noveske: Scout M600 and a ring light version with adapters for 0.825", 1", and 1.035"
- 1 mount from Odin Works for 1" lights
- 1 mount from KAC for Scout M600 (not available yet AFAIK, but some pictures from SHOT are floating around)

Not to mention all the 1913 light mounts that you can run off the 12 o'clock rail to place the light at 1 or 11 o'clock.


Re: Rail section part counts and weight: The addition of the two keymod specific nuts doesn't increase the weight or complexity over quite a few of the slick handguards with proprietary add-on 1913 rail sections. We're talking about a pair of screws and a pair of keymod nuts. A fraction of an ounce. That's it.

Many of the proprietary rail sections have backer plates that are going to be just as heavy (or heavier), are harder to install, and are far easier to lose. Perfect examples would be the Geissele Mk2, DD MFR, or even the Troy/VTAC Alpha setup with long backer plates that almost certainly weigh more than the tiny keymod nuts, and are a pain to assemble.


I own keymod and proprietary slick handguards, as well as full 1913 setups. A year ago I would have agreed that there weren't enough accessories. Now, though? There's plenty out there, except for VFGs.

If you don't like keymod handguards, fine, don't use them, but some of the reasons people come up with these days are unwarranted or simply not true. :)

[RiverRat]

Re: CNC/Production costs: I can't really agree. For the most part, high-end 1913 rail systems cost quite a bit more than any of the keymod systems. For example, the DD lite rail III goes for $395, the II version for $399, and the RIS II for the same. The Centurion Arms C4 starts at $295 for the 12" model and gets more expensive for the cutout versions.

You're welcome to disagree and if you were to fully adopt Keymod I would be the last one to say you've done anything wrong. But I will rebut a few of your points in the interest of making my position clear.

I would submit that actual production costs for most "high end" 1913 rails have little to do with the retail cost of items. Based on extensive personal experience in markets where the goverment is a payor, I believe DD's and KAC's government contracts greatly influence their retail pricing. Centurion, Noveske and Larue represent prestige purchases. All five make great products, but none are certainly not following a low markup "cost plus" pricing strategy. This is not a criticism, just an observation.

On the other side of the fence, Rainer's Force rail and Midwest's offering represent exceptional value in the Keymod world from producers who aren't working in boutique space (the 2 exceptions I mentioned above). Thanks goodness for companies like this, they are the ones that are more likely to create broad adoption. I bought the Force and am considering the MI rail, so it's not like I'm walking away from Keymod as a concept - in fact, I'm hoping it becomes the de facto standard for the civilian market. It's just hard to make a case that it's anywhere near that well accepted yet.

For lights, I had completely forgotten that HSP released the Thorntail in Keymod and had no clue that Noveske had a mount. Thanks for those corrections. I'm all for having more options that get us away from kludging together solutions. To that end, I don't believe making a case for running 1913 mounts from 12 o'clock on a Keymod rail is justification to adopt Keymod over any other rail system. I could do that just as well on any other rail. In fact, I've tried it on a Midwest G2 and immediately installed a Picatinny section.

My point on the additional pieces was that we're taking relatively small numbers on all the weights when comparing Keymod vs other slick rails. Using an apples-to-apples comparison, a 12" MI G2 rail weighs 9.3 oz installed, their 12" Keymod rail weighs 8.5 oz installed. Since the difference between them is 0.8 oz, simple math suggests that even a few extra fractions of an ounces make them basically equivalent in weight. Clearly, if you're installing even one direct Keymod accessory you can starting to create significant weight savings - which is why I genuinely glad you mentioned the other light mounting options.

Regards.

[FortTom]

FT,

First and foremost, remember that anyone reading this forum is already looking at higher-end product, compared against the average buyer. When folks actually post here, you're starting to really skew published opinions toward higher-end components, extravagant purchases and early adoption (unless you wear a yellow hat with a big hole in the middle).

That said, I don't see any incentive for people to adopt this system right now. Keymod the Betamax of the AR15 world (it's better, but not adopted).
- It's not really passing lower CNC/production costs along to the consumer. In fact, since most Keymod systems are low volume items and/or boutique-produced, retail cost is usually a significant disincentive to adoption (2 exceptions exist) .

.. which starts to erode weight savings. ... this leads me to think the real problem is that accessory producers are waiting to see how many Keymod rails sell, but Keymod won't sell unless there are direct-mount accessories. Catch-22. For the system to really gain traction, I think one of 2 things must happen.

- Magpul takes the plunge on direct Keymod VFG/AVGs. They have large enough presence with both LGS and OEM builders to actually impact the market.

- BCM introduces their Keymod stubby VFG AND BCM/EAG collaborates with Surefire on a direct Keymod 1" mount. Since SF already produces a Fury light to EAG's specs and Eric's at BCM these days, this scenario doesn't seem too far-fetched.

All that said, I did just buy a Rainer Force rail - but that's mostly cause I needed a 9"-10" forearm, it's reasonably priced and I think the truss cutouts are attractive. Since my hand rotates toward vertical on SBRs and AR pistols, I'll probably be stacking the craptastic Keymod-1913-AVG interface. If I end you hating that, I'll sell the Force and pick up either a Fortis or Centurion fore arm with a real bottom rail.

Cheers.
Wow, you really took this discussion off a curve and over a cliff. This was never a fiscal issue, nor who can afford what, etc. "Extravagant Purchases"? Are you serious? My last complete upper was also a 16 Mid Lightweight BCM with Centurion rails. More expensive and definitely not "extravagant". Not trying to "skew" anyone's opinion when it comes to price point. And you must be wearing that yellow hat with the hole in the top, I can't seem to find mine, probably melted in this discussion. I'll repeat that I just wanted to gauge interest in the KeyMod design. Case in point; I have great "interest" in owning a Lamborghini, but that's not going to happen, ever, I'm quite sure. Doesn't mean I can't have interest in one, based on it's merits.

Do you really think I was insinuating that individuals and departments start ripping off expensive quad rails, and tossing mounting systems, just to wait and see what the industry might do, as far as moving into the KeyMod mounting systems, and accessories development, with some being possibly two years out? Or as your Betamax comparison, maybe never.

I worked in the engineering field, automotive and aerospace long enough to know that market demand drives production and innovation, normally, and not the other way around.

My discussions, with the folks around here, focused on the design, and possibilities of what might and might not be. Most are skeptical, and therefore stated in my original post, that there doesn't seem to be much interest, in this area. Price was never a question, as I bought this as a complete upper. I have two other rifles with Centurion rails. Both bulkier, heavier, more expensive, with a lot of wasted rail space that Captain Kirk couldn't fill them all. Nothing "boutique" about the KeyMod. Maybe you shop more upscale stores than I do?

And although I vastly enjoy various types of firearms, my passion does not elevate to love, or hatred, therefore I won't even try to understand "If I end you hating that...."

Hope this clarifies things a bit.[:)]

FT

[KevinBLC]

Re: CNC/Production costs: I can't really agree. For the most part, high-end 1913 rail systems cost quite a bit more than any of the keymod systems. For example, the DD lite rail III goes for $395, the II version for $399, and the RIS II for the same. The Centurion Arms C4 starts at $295 for the 12" model and gets more expensive for the cutout versions.

Compare this to a Noveske NSR which is $265 for the 13.5", or the Rainier Arms Force 12" which is $180. Even the Fortis Rev is only $200, although it's a hybrid keymod. Yes, some are just as expensive as the 1913 rails, like the Geissele that isn't quite available yet, but in general keymod tends to be cheaper.


Re: Keymod accessory availability: As of today direct mount accessories are easily found, except for a VFG. There are tons of sling mounts, panels, hand stops, and even light mounts. Heck there are even keymod sling swivel adapters for use with harris bipods, amongst other things.

Light mounts that I know of:
- 3 mounts from IWC: the Thorntail for Scout M600, M620, and then a ring mount with 0.830", 1", and 1.030" adapters
- 2 mounts from Noveske: Scout M600 and a ring light version with adapters for 0.825", 1", and 1.035"
- 1 mount from Odin Works for 1" lights
- 1 mount from KAC for Scout M600 (not available yet AFAIK, but some pictures from SHOT are floating around)

Not to mention all the 1913 light mounts that you can run off the 12 o'clock rail to place the light at 1 or 11 o'clock.


Re: Rail section part counts and weight: The addition of the two keymod specific nuts doesn't increase the weight or complexity over quite a few of the slick handguards with proprietary add-on 1913 rail sections. We're talking about a pair of screws and a pair of keymod nuts. A fraction of an ounce. That's it.

Many of the proprietary rail sections have backer plates that are going to be just as heavy (or heavier), are harder to install, and are far easier to lose. Perfect examples would be the Geissele Mk2, DD MFR, or even the Troy/VTAC Alpha setup with long backer plates that almost certainly weigh more than the tiny keymod nuts, and are a pain to assemble.


I own keymod and proprietary slick handguards, as well as full 1913 setups. A year ago I would have agreed that there weren't enough accessories. Now, though? There's plenty out there, except for VFGs.

If you don't like keymod handguards, fine, don't use them, but some of the reasons people come up with these days are unwarranted or simply not true. :)

Well for me it's true, because VFG's are what I like and use. I was considering a Force rail purchase, but there is no bottom 1913 rail. Looks like for now for my needs, the Fortis REV is my best bet. I can adopt keymod accessories later if anything changes or use the sides of the Fortis.

[RiverRat]

FT

Dang, I sure didn't mean to be inflammatory - that's usually not my intention, though I'll admit I took a lil' poke at Rob hoping it might elicit a chuckle. I really didn't mean to drop a bomb on your thread, nor accuse anyone of anything (though when I re-read my post, I did see how a "you're" can be taken in a way I didn't mean, it should have been 3rd person). I was just trying to preface MY thinking with some context - and I seem to have done that both poorly and in the wrong thread. At this point, having dug a hole deeper than intended, maybe I should put down the shovel.

Sorry that I derailed your discussion, especially with language that seems to have gotten hackles raised.

Regards, with hopes that Keymod someday lives up to its potential
RR

[FortTom]

FT

Dang, I sure didn't mean to be inflammatory - that's usually not my intention, though I'll admit I took a lil' poke at Rob hoping it might elicit a chuckle. I really didn't mean to drop a bomb on your thread, nor accuse anyone of anything - I was just trying to preface MY thinking with some context - and I seem to have done that both poorly and in the wrong thread. At this point, having dug a hole deeper than intended, maybe I should put down the shovel.

Sorry that I derailed your discussion, especially with language that seems to have gotten hackles raised.

Regards, with hopes that Keymod someday lives up to its potential
RR

No, no hackles raised, possibly just a bit of miscommunication down the line...[BD]

FT

[UWone77]

I'm not the biggest KeyMod fan, but I did pick one of these up for a future build. Should tie me over until I get a Megalithic.


http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/UWone77/IMG_1437_zps47a50e3f.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/UWone77/media/IMG_1437_zps47a50e3f.jpg.html)

[GOST]

I also am not a very big keymod fan but those MKMs are sexy and very well priced.

[GOST]

Anyone have a pic of a MKM with a 10.5" barrel?

[FortTom]

I'm not interested in keymod mainly because I have 3 quad rails on my rifles and what is keymod doing for me that a quad rail won't? Until that mystery is solved, I'm not interested.
Kevin,

At first, that's sort of what I thought. But the much smaller size and weight convinced me to try one. This is for a new build, not for an existing rifle, like you, my Centurion rails still work just as well as the day I got them. I wouldn't expect anyone to remove them from their rifles to try a KeyMod rail, just for the heck of it.

But, things change, I remember in the military, rails were just coming in as I was going out (ret.). There wasn't much to attach to them, in the civilian world, anyway. The first that I saw were only going to the most "elite" forces, not at all sure who got them, but it wasn't us, and I thought about quad railed guns, about exactly what you're thinking. At that time in history, didn't need them, didn't see a use for them, and didn't want them. Several years later, mystery solved.

I'm not sure if KeyMod or even something else will start edging railed hand guards out of the market, or if they'll fade into obscurity. But so far, I'm already really liking the benefits of size, weight and profile, over my railed rifles.

However, now that I'm retired, again, and not using anything for "duty", I've taken sort of a minimalist view, and the less my weapon weighs, the less bulky and the least amount of "stuff" I can hang on it, and it still serves it's intended purpose, the better.

But your response, is pretty much in line with the folks around where I live. It seems that the only real interest I am gauging are guy's working in a few of our LGS's that deal primarily with tactical orientated weapons. Several of these are younger guys who just separated from the military. That seems strange, as railed rifles are what they were "raised" with, and what they know. I think I'll have to wait until the spring thaw, and see what shows up at the outdoor ranges.

FT

[GOST]

The keymod rails do feel good but to me they get a little hot after a while, and I don't like wearing gloves all the time. On my most current setup it's got a pre-keymod 13" MK4. I guess I don't change out accessories enough to make good use of keymod. Maybe when more accessories come out maybe I'll get me a keymod. Surprised Daniel Defense and Magpul haven't jumped on the keymod bus.

[FortTom]

The keymod rails do feel good but to me they get a little hot after a while, and I don't like wearing gloves all the time. On my most current setup it's got a pre-keymod 13" MK4. I guess I don't change out accessories enough to make good use of keymod. Maybe when more accessories come out maybe I'll get me a keymod. Surprised Daniel Defense and Magpul haven't jumped on the keymod bus. I'm hearing Magpul has things in the works. Maybe one of the staff here that actually has contact with the reps from there, might weigh in on that.
Don't know anything about DD. BCM, Knights Armament, and a couple of others are. Lots of stuff sold out or "out of stock", so I'm guessing they're just making minimal runs right now until they can realistically gauge demand. But poking around and using google and bing, surprised me, as far as how much really is available.

I don't see changing out accessories as being a plus for KeyMod, changing out stuff on rails is just as fast and easy. It's the lack of all that weight and "bloat" of those rails, that grabs me as worthwhile.

Again, though, I think it's way to early to declare KeyMod a winner or a has been. I'm happy with mine, and can get anything I want for it, but that doesn't count for much. I'd like to see how things go a year from now. Also like to hear some more about magpul, from a more inside and reliable source.

FT

[SteveL]

As far as VFGs go there are 2 coming that I know of. BCM's is supposed to be available in 7 or 8 weeks. If you don't know anything about it search for it on YouTube. Unity Tactical also has one in the works. As for Magpul, they tend to stay pretty quiet about products they have in the works but I would be really surprised if they don't have anything coming.

It looks like more and more manufacturers are warming up to the keymod system so I would be very surprised if it isn't here to stay. I'm not saying it will phase out picatinny rails any time soon but I don't think it's going anywhere.

ETA: BCM Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNLE3Wt0qXk

Unity Tactical
http://jerkingthetrigger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Unity-Tactical-direct-VFG.jpg

[FortTom]

Steve,
What rail and barrel is that in the lower picture?

FT

[SteveL]

The rail is a KMR by BCM. It looks like a complete BCM rifle but I can't say which exact barrel that is. The pics are posted on Unity Tactical's Facebook page. I imagine you could contact Unity Tactical on FB or by email and ask for the specifics.

http://jerkingthetrigger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Unity-Tactical-direct-VFG-Mounted.jpg

[FortTom]

Thought it looked familiar. I recently purchased the complete KMR "Lightweight" upper from BCM.

FT

[SteveL]

Nice. If the eforms server is cooperative in the morning I'm going to submit a form 1 to make an SBR. I'm eying an 11.5" BCM upper with 10" KMR.

[GOST]

The Unity Tactical VFG looks really good.

[gatordev]

As far as VFGs go...

I've been eying Keymod and URX 3.1 rails for several months now, and until FT mentioned how light the KMR is, I just wasn't interested in Keymod, as adding rails just seems to defeat the point. While I was home for Xmas, I went to a gun store that I knew had an URX for me to fondle. I mentioned that my concern was that I can't put a VFG on it and he informed me that "no one uses vertical foregrips anymore" and that everyone uses handstops. So obviously you guys are just wrong for even thinking about VFG.



there are 2 coming that I know of. BCM's is supposed to be available in 7 or 8 weeks. If you don't know anything about it search for it on YouTube. Unity Tactical also has one in the works. As for Magpul, they tend to stay pretty quiet about products they have in the works but I would be really surprised if they don't have anything coming.


Both of those look slick. I still have a few weeks until I finish my move and can order my rail, but if either of those are available by then, I may be seriously looking at the KMR.

[FortTom]

..... I went to a gun store that I knew had an URX for me to fondle. I mentioned that my concern was that I can't put a VFG on it and he informed me that "no one uses vertical foregrips anymore" and that everyone uses handstops.....

Was he working at Pay Less Shoes the week before?......[bash]

One forum I used to visit occasionally had a thread of all the stupid crap they've heard at gun stores, the thread went crazy, with pages and pages of anecdotes and comments... I finally quit reading them, but I think this one would have been a great addition to that thread...

P.S. In the interest of full disclosure, all of my rifles use hand stops.[:D]
FT

[SteveL]

Both of those look slick. I still have a few weeks until I finish my move and can order my rail, but if either of those are available by then, I may be seriously looking at the KMR.

If you want a keymod rail then I say don't let the lack of available VFGs sway you from getting one. While you might not be able to walk into the LGS and buy one right now today, we've seen proof that they are coming. Give it a few weeks and they'll start filtering out into the wild.

[mustangfreek]

I like my NSR rail and newly acquired fortis rail, that i havent really used yet, The slim , light desin of both is what i was after. The slim tube of the NSR feels great in the hands even with their nsr panels on it. Not sure which rail for the next build, but looking at the new rainier rail or samson evo keymod

Im not after much accessoreis but a grip, afg of some sort in the keymod flavor would be good, With quick detach/ attachable abilities would be great.

[rob_s]

There are several threads discussing this from various angles.

Picatinny isn't going anywhere. The military is heavily invested in it and there is no practical advantage to Keymod that would push them to a complete change.

As for local interest, the internet, and those who spend time on the forums, is a tiny segment of the market. I know it doesn't seem like it to those that fall into that category, but it is. Things like the Troy Alpha handguards, that were the new-hotness before keymod became the new-hotness, are just now starting to pop up on guns in a widespread way. Being ahead of the curve is what drives a lot of people to the internet in the first place.

I'm still showing up to matches with a fixed A1 stock, iron sights, MOE handguard & VFG, and coming in among the top 3 every month, so frankly I'm having a hard time getting excited about any doo-dads these days, and get a strong sense of satisfaction when I hear the 14th and 18th place guys arguing about rails, scopes, triggers, etc. I guess maybe $1k is the difference between 14th and 18th?

[FortTom]

I think, for the most part, that you are correct, Rob. The thing that puzzles me is, that I mentioned in a previous thread, is that those around here, that seem the most interested in KeyMod, are younger guys, just coming out of the Military. These guys didn't see the evolution of the M-16/CAR's, etc. All they knew was railed M4 rifles. Go figure. As far as the Military goes, yes they are heavily invested in rail platforms.

But, from the outset of this discussion, I never suggested that there would be a mass exodus of the military, LEO, DEA, private contractors, etc..etc..to the KeyMod platform. Not going to happen, at least not for many years, until the next great thing. I would even bet that the military will continue to stay with the rail platform until the next generation of the military's rifles start replacing the M4.

I'm just trying to gauge interest in the "private" sector. That'll be the driver for accessories, etc.. Maybe some private contractors that have 20 employee's, might take advantage of the weight savings and other benefits, as their current weapons start "ageing" out, especially if their optics, and other accessories can be re-used, with mounting systems made for KM.

[UWone77]

One more KeyMod for the discussion... the Parallax Tactical KeyMod Rail. Probably the least expensive out of the bunch, then again it is just a simple extrusion.

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab55/UWone77/IMG_1610_zps7a875385.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/UWone77/media/IMG_1610_zps7a875385.jpg.html)

[DMViergever]

I have had a ton of KeyMod handguards in my hands lately and there really have not been a ton that reach out as far superior. As was said earlier the most feature rich handguard I have seen was from a smaller company and is an excellent handguard. The PWS is pretty good so far as well. I haven't had my hands on a KMR but I do know from what I have heard it is lacking a quality that I really appreciate, which is the whole QD thing.

I know there are several companies coming out with accessories like handstops and VFGs. I have been running the Thorntail and WML combo and really like it as I can pop it off one handguard to another and without the use of a spare rail piece it sits very close to the handguard. Not having to add a rail section is certailnly an upside for me as I hate the feel of the Alpha style rail when a section is added and then a handstop or VFG.

I am well aware that picatinny isn't going anywhere in the military sector anytime soon but I definitely have come to appreciate the ability of tossing a light or vfg from rifle to rifle without messing with rail segments and the weight savings are cool too.

[gatordev]

If you want a keymod rail then I say don't let the lack of available VFGs sway you from getting one. While you might not be able to walk into the LGS and buy one right now today, we've seen proof that they are coming. Give it a few weeks and they'll start filtering out into the wild.

I could really care less about Keymod. I'm mostly with Rob and find a DD/CA/Knights rail just fine. My interest at the moment is finding a very light weight rail to go on what I intended to be a lightweight 12.5" rifle. In this case, the KMR happens to win the weight battle, but at the end of the day, a quad rail will fit 95% of my needs. I just need to figure out if the extra few ounces (either way) is worth it to me.

[SteveL]

I could really care less about Keymod. I'm mostly with Rob and find a DD/CA/Knights rail just fine. My interest at the moment is finding a very light weight rail to go on what I intended to be a lightweight 12.5" rifle. In this case, the KMR happens to win the weight battle, but at the end of the day, a quad rail will fit 95% of my needs. I just need to figure out if the extra few ounces (either way) is worth it to me.

I wasn't suggesting that everyone should disregard quadrail forends in favor of keymod setups. I got the impression that a couple of people who had posted in this thread were interested in trying out a keymod rail but were hesitant due to the lack of available direct connect VFGs. I was just pointing out that such VFGs are in fact coming from at least two different manufacturers so that's one less thing for people to worry about who are on the fence.

[gatordev]

I gotcha. I'm sure the delay/idiosyncrasies of the internet are part of the issue.

[rob_s]

I'm in the camp of not trying one until there's a VFG readily available. And even then I'd need to have a reason to put a new upper together.

The VFG for me is a deal-beaker because I wouldn't be able to really evaluate the handguard without one, and there's no sense buying a handguard now on a promised future accessory.

Some people like being early adopters. God knows I used to. Tom I think then"young" part of what you think you're seeing has more to do with it than the "prior military". But if you shoot enough you reach a point to where you know what you like and whets you want. Functionally, these Keymod handguards aren't really doing anything that any one of the current Brazilkian (slick) handguards are doing when it comes to the actual shooting. So anyone that's seeing success with their current setup, and for whom it's about the rounds downrange not the pidtures on the Internet, ew-hotness is probably going to hold a mild interest at best.