Coming full circle

[Creeky73]

So I wanted to post a little something on here to describe my personal "AR Journey," and hopefully this will help someone who might just now be getting into the black rifles, and possibly save them a lot of time and money that I wish I coulda/woulda saved.

As anyone could figure out from any of my previous posts, I am not current or former military or LE, nor would I ever claim any degree of skill, knowledge or otherwise that would rise to the level of a whole lot of the guys on this forum; I am in complete awe of these guys.

My first AR was bought on a whim. I had returned home after almost 7 years in Kommiefornia, and just had no intention of buying a gun like this. I saw a Rock River on the shelf in a local hunting store, and assuming that an AR is an AR (Bushmaster Syndrome) I bought it without doing the first bit of research or investigation. And everything might have been fine, except for one thing I got wrong, or so I thought: I bought a version with the fixed carry handle upper. Not removable. Why? I thought it looked more M16'ish than the flat tops ( I was raised on Rambo and Predator and Full Metal Jacket).

So away I went, happy as a lark.

Until I discovered Stickman's photos and saw what a real AR could look like, if you were willing to spend 3 months pay on one. And I was. Over a matter of time, mind you. First thing I did was buy a flat top upper receiver, because a modern, properly-tacticooled AR cannot be caught dead with a carry handle sight, right? However, I found that I couldn't stand the slop that derived from the two receivers not being matched together. I ended up selling that gun outright to a friend, who has been perfectly content with it ever since. I, on the other hand, embarked on a quest of buying this part and that part, visiting gunsmiths hither and yon, and squandering thousands of dollars that resulted in two complete AR's that I wasn't happy with and consequently sold, and a heap of other scrap parts that are almost begging me to build another. And not nearly enough time shooting one, while all these guns were "works in progress," and that fact alone should earn me a few kicks in the nethers from Rob S himself.

All of that, to end up with my latest, and last, AR. A Colt 6920 decked out with black Magpul furniture just arrived last week, pretty much as simple as it comes. I cannot tell you how badly I wish I would have just done this from the start. If you are considering your first AR, listen to all the guys who tell you not to get caught up in the Barbie for Men jazz, just buy a simple, reputable AR and shoot the living crap out of it.

Know what I am mad about the Colt not coming with though? The carry handle rear sight.

To whoever might have actually read all this, thanks for your time :o

[Eric]

Great post and it reflects what I tell most first time buyers. The Colt 6920 or 6720 is a great starting point for most applications. 6920s are plentiful and can be found for about $1050 (less if you look around). About a year ago Colt discontinued shipping with the carry handle and went to the MBUS and one Pmag.

[FortTom]

All you have to do now, is start wearing a long wool robe, and take a vow of poverty, for life. Then swear off all other enjoyable things in life, such as beer, etc. Construct an alter in the shape of a workbench in your garage, with stickers and posters from deity's such as Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, Seekins, Spikes, and hundreds of others. Burn scented candles and walk in circles for hours, as money flows from your wallet. Only then can you become an AR Siddhartha, and complete the journey that is the circle of AR life.
Peace be with you.

FT

[voodoo_man]

Stickman does have some "real" AR's he takes pictures of, for sure.

It all depends on what you think you need, the bare minimum, basics.

For some its an mk11 with NV and all that. For others its a 6920 with magpul HG's.

[FortTom]

Stickman does have some "real" AR's he takes pictures of, for sure.

It all depends on what you think you need, the bare minimum, basics.

For some its an mk11 with NV and all that. For others its a 6920 with magpul HG's.

Voodoo_man is 100% correct. But I'd use the "Barbie" analogy sparingly.

Yes, there are people with deep pockets and nothing to do but see what they can hang off a rifle, that never leaves the safe, much less they dare put a scratch on them.

Me, my rifles start out pretty, but they get dings and scratches, they do that when the get shot.

And one step further. There are a lot of "Pros" onthis site, if you haven't figured that out yet. Me, I'm retired military, and since retired again. I don't need all of the expensive tools that some of the people carry to work on a regular basis. I don't need, or want a laser, but the quiet guy, with a few posts, who gets big bucks as a professionally trained "contractor", well it might be a "must have", part of his tool box, just the same as the guy who works on cars at a dealership, has sometimes many thousands of dollars worth of "tools".

So Voodoo's second and third sentence, might be worth a re-read.

On the other hand, beginners, and we all were at one time, make mistakes, it's what we learn and take away with those mistakes that makes a difference. Myself, I've been in the game since '75, and I still, on occasion, want to try something new. Most often it's a worthwhile endeavor, and sometimes it's a trash can filler.

Good luck to you, in your future endeavors, the way I see it, the less money you can spend, and be happy as a pig in mud, is a winner anyway you look at it.

FT[:)]

[Jerry R]

A great post IMHO - and I have made more (and worse) judgement calls on parts and complete rifles. Having said that ----- no regrets. It has been a fun ride and I hope I'm not at the top of the roller coaster yet. You are never too old to learn, or enjoy the discoveries you make in this - and all other hobbies.

Remember Jerry's rule number 1 --- It only costs twice as much to go first class !!

But, everyone's opinion of "first class" varies quite a bit.

Relax, the bus is not at the terminal yet.

[Creeky73]

Voodoo_man is 100% correct. But I'd use the "Barbie" analogy sparingly.

Yes, there are people with deep pockets and nothing to do but see what they can hang off a rifle, that never leaves the safe, much less they dare put a scratch on them.

Me, my rifles start out pretty, but they get dings and scratches, they do that when the get shot.

And one step further. There are a lot of "Pros" onthis site, if you haven't figured that out yet. Me, I'm retired military, and since retired again. I don't need all of the expensive tools that some of the people carry to work on a regular basis. I don't need, or want a laser, but the quiet guy, with a few posts, who gets big bucks as a professionally trained "contractor", well it might be a "must have", part of his tool box, just the same as the guy who works on cars at a dealership, has sometimes many thousands of dollars worth of "tools".

So Voodoo's second and third sentence, might be worth a re-read.

On the other hand, beginners, and we all were at one time, make mistakes, it's what we learn and take away with those mistakes that makes a difference. Myself, I've been in the game since '75, and I still, on occasion, want to try something new. Most often it's a worthwhile endeavor, and sometimes it's a trash can filler.

Good luck to you, in your future endeavors, the way I see it, the less money you can spend, and be happy as a pig in mud, is a winner anyway you look at it.

FT[:)]

allow me to clarify: I would not ever presume to tell someone exactly what they should or should not have on their gun or anything else they have, and I really hope I didn't come off that way. I have no doubt that Mil and LE can find plenty of good reasons to do plenty of things to their gun that I have deemed unnecessary to myself. I also trust those guys to be smart enough to make these decisions competently, and I would not second-guess any of them on those choices. I think the idea of my post was to say to the noobs, if you are looking for home defense, SHTF or whatever the case may be, give the "simple" gun a chance before deciding that the $3k Noveske is the only way to go. Akin to saying that perhaps a Les Baer 1911 might be a bit overkill for someone's first handgun. Obviously none of this applies to those with really deep pockets; if someone can afford a $4k gun as their first AR, go for it.

[DMViergever]

Good post. I had a buddy call last week asking about his first handgun and was looking at two Springfield 1911s. One was 900 the other was 950. I advised him to buy a Glock or M&P, a case of ammo and a class or two for the price of his 1911 and buy the pretty gun down the road.

Training and trigger time are invaluable and usually help with bringing out the issues that you don't care for or would benefit you to upgrade, if there are any.

[UWone77]

I've owned or shot virtually every major AR on the market. If I had to do it all over again, I would buy 2 Colt 6720's and 2 6933 and call it a day. Shoot the hell out of 1 of each, and have the other as a backup. I've wasted a lot of money on the latest whiz bang AR and could have saved a lot of headache and time if I just started with the Colt. Like you, I prefer the Carry Handle if I'm going to shoot it with irons.

Otherwise, I'd outfit all 4 rifles with Aimpoints, a white light and a good 2 point sling.

I try to recommend Colts to all new shooters who ask for advice, trying to lead them to 6720's or 6920's. A lot of people still get hung up on building their own "for less" or they want mid-length gas, CHF barrels, and other items that is "better" than the Colt.

Sometimes I think certain people need to have the long journey to learn what was given to them in the beginning. Just buy the Colt and shoot the piss out of it.

[rob_s]

I used to get paid to do gear reviews, and have had all manner of free gear thrown at me. And I'll tell you what I learned in that time:
99.9% of the gear is bullshit and 99.9% of the people talking about it are full of shit.

The VAST majority of people are justifying a purchase. No more, no less.

I still have the two guns I assembled before I started all this crap. Virtually nothing has changed on either of them except that the lights have gotten smaller as the technology has improved. That's AFTER having an untold number of doodads and widgets come through my hands.

I listen to guys go in, and on, and on, about how this thing is better for that ninja move, or this widget makes them "faster" or "more accurate" without ever having established a baseline. Then we all walk out to our squads, shoot the match, and I'm i. The top 3 and they are in the bottom three. Whoops.

I've taken high shooter in AR-centric classes shooting an AK. I generally win or come in near the top in our monthly matches shooting an iron-sighted, fixed-stock, plastic-non-free-float handguard, AR. I have see guys shooting in Open at USPSA matches get their butts beat by a left-handed dude shooting a bone stock Glock 19.

If you're on the Internet spouting of about how you"need" a light, or an RDS, to shoot at night but you've never shot at night without one, you're wrong. If you're chasing triggers, and 1.x-Y optics,and fancy barrels but you've never shot at over 100 yards (or aren't already achieving the mechanical limits of the barrel and ammo), you're doing it wrong. If you're asking about brakes and triggers and such to shoot faster up close but you don't even have any idea what your average time on the 1-5 or 2x2x2 drill (or similar) are, you're doing it wrong. How do you. Easier "better" if you don't even know what "worse" is.

Go and shoot the basic gun and learn how to shoot. Take that extra $1k that you're going to glue onto your gun and go sign up for a Randy Cain carbine class. The things you learn in that class (which you won't learn in any government institution) will apply to any gun you ever pick up, not just the one you bolted a bunch of widgets to.

The only reason I haven't bought a stock 6720 to use for everything is that I have this iron sights gun already and it would be redundant.

Several years ago I had a 2005 GTO. I took it to the drag strip every other week, and ran the stock car. I kept doing that until I was getting consistent times, and kept checking online to see where those times stood up. What I found was that there were guys with better tires, gear boxes, and other parts that either had never been to the track or who were running slower times than me. Big lightbulb went on over my head re: gun stuff. Although not big enough, as I continued to waste massive amounts money on bullshit recommended by people who were full of shit.

[Creeky73]

I've owned or shot virtually every major AR on the market. If I had to do it all over again, I would buy 2 Colt 6720's and 2 6933 and call it a day. Shoot the hell out of 1 of each, and have the other as a backup. I've wasted a lot of money on the latest whiz bang AR and could have saved a lot of headache and time if I just started with the Colt. Like you, I prefer the Carry Handle if I'm going to shoot it with irons.

Otherwise, I'd outfit all 4 rifles with Aimpoints, a white light and a good 2 point sling.

I try to recommend Colts to all new shooters who ask for advice, trying to lead them to 6720's or 6920's. A lot of people still get hung up on building their own "for less" or they want mid-length gas, CHF barrels, and other items that is "better" than the Colt.

Sometimes I think certain people need to have the long journey to learn what was given to them in the beginning. Just buy the Colt and shoot the piss out of it.

I would like to meet the guy who doesn't own an AR or any of the tools already, who has built an AR for less than you can buy one. If you actually have to buy every part, and every tool to put it together, building one for less is a fantasy. I probably spent enough on shipping parts alone to buy 1k rounds.

[DMViergever]

I would like to meet the guy who doesn't own an AR or any of the tools already, who has built an AR for less than you can buy one. If you actually have to buy every part, and every tool to put it together, building one for less is a fantasy. I probably spent enough on shipping parts alone to buy 1k rounds.

+1 the armorers tool, a good torque wrench if you don't have it, a vise and a table to put it on, reaction rod or blocks, various punches, all add up. My buddies get lucky being I have all of the mentioned and they can usually get away building sweet rifles on the cheap. They also buy some parts, like uppers, nice barrels, handguards, pistol grips etc. And that helps out as well. Even then they are right there at Colt money.

[FortTom]

I don't look at building my own rifles as an exercise in good economic judgment. I don't know too many people, none really, that think they can build a rifle for less money than they can buy the same thing for.

I look at it as a challenge, and a relaxing hobby, and a way to get a rifle exactly the way I want it, rather than what's available at the LGS. I suppose you could build a franken gun cheaply enough, but most of those end up being more of a problem than a solution. And sometimes parts fitment, etc..can be much more frustrating than relaxing. Then it's just time to back off a day or two and figure things out.

I have most of the tools necessary to build one, actually a fairly decent selection of tools that I've assembled over the years for various firearms.

Start adding $500 plus optics, and this thing or that, that makes your build unique, at least to you, and it can get damned expensive to build your own.

But I wouldn't discount the joy of getting it "exactly" the way you want your weapon, and the joy of taking it to the range, and it runs like a sewing machine, and the fact that you did it yourself, well there's value in that too.

I couldn't fault the guy/gal who would just as soon take a good rifle off the wall at the local shop, and if they can save money that they could better use elsewhere, on the gun or in the home.

Lastly, I'm hesitant to call a couple of mine as "builds". Installing a LPK into a stripped lower, buffer tube, stock, etc...then buying a BCU and a complete upper, and just "snapping" the thing together, well I'm more inclined to calling it an "assembly".

But, I just don't see the folks I hang with, thinking that they are saving money by building their own. I do see quite a few folks buying a stock "XYZ" and then spending a fortune on optic's, sight upgrades, rail upgrades, etc..etc.. achieving just the opposite, if they had built one from the ground up. When a new Colt, or other similar quality gun, starts giving birth to a pile of parts, and wearing new parts, then that person might take a second look at building their own..

I'm in the process of starting another project, collecting parts, coordinating with NIB platers, etc. I just got started and it's getting expensive already[crazy], but, if all goes well, I'll have one that may be like thousands of others, but unique in some fashion or another.

FT

[GOST]

Build budgets are meant to be surpassed.

[Jerry R]

I would like to meet the guy who doesn't own an AR or any of the tools already, who has built an AR for less than you can buy one. If you actually have to buy every part, and every tool to put it together, building one for less is a fantasy. I probably spent enough on shipping parts alone to buy 1k rounds.

+1 If you are a non-believer, go to your Chevy Dealer - walk up to the parts counter and ask to buy a Corvette - one part at a time. It's all about economy of scale. Manufacturers buy in bulk. We build for "fun" or uniqueness, they build for profit. Henry Ford started assembly line production decades ago to reduce cost. It still works.