Don't try this at home

[Eric]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI01qKAqYts

[jymbeux]

I saw that recently, it's a bit nutty. Impressive in a way though

[UWone77]

Just goes to show you, even the guy doing the drill (and I assume he's done it many times before) still has a ND into the ground on the second drill.

[DMViergever]

Holy smokes...that was insanity. I am glad I am not shooting buddies with those guys! That is crazy stuff.

[LMMzach]

What!

[mustangfreek]

Crazy suckers..Larry even looked a little..like WTF..lol

[UWone77]

Crazy suckers..Larry even looked a little..like WTF..lol

You noticed that too? Yeah Vickers had the WTF look on his face most of the video. Wonder what was going through his mind during the video, even though he probably knew ahead of time what kind of crazy drills they would be running.

[gatordev]

Just goes to show you, even the guy doing the drill (and I assume he's done it many times before) still has a ND into the ground on the second drill.

I saw more than one ND, which just makes me ask what the value of this is. Yeah, I get it, it's entertainment (on however I'm supposed to watch Vickers TV), but still. None of that is really all that valuable as a training milestone, which I would hope would be Vickers' point.

[voodoo_man]

In the US we consider them ND's, over there, they aren't ND's.

That's just how they keep you off of them.

[DMViergever]

In the US we consider them ND's, over there, they aren't ND's.

That's just how they keep you off of them.

So you think they are intentional? Holy crap, sounds like a wasted bullet and a way to have to dig bullet fragments from my shin or lose a toe.

[voodoo_man]

So you think they are intentional? Holy crap, sounds like a wasted bullet and a way to have to dig bullet fragments from my shin or lose a toe.

They do not train the way we do. They have different safety rules and use of force levels.

Think about it logically.

If you were in an active shooting situation, you shot people, you were being shot and you had people attempting fight you, hand to hand, having a pistol in your hand, would a round in the ground at their feet not be the best way of getting them to stop doing whatever they are trying to do.

[KevinBLC]

I don't know, that bullet looked like it was very close to his own foot. I see your point though. Crazy, well more stupid, but that's just me.

[FortTom]

They do not train the way we do. They have different safety rules and use of force levels.

Think about it logically.

If you were in an active shooting situation, you shot people, you were being shot and you had people attempting fight you, hand to hand, having a pistol in your hand, would a round in the ground at their feet not be the best way of getting them to stop doing whatever they are trying to do.

It would be warning enough for me...

FT

[gatordev]

They do not train the way we do. They have different safety rules and use of force levels.

Think about it logically.

If you were in an active shooting situation, you shot people, you were being shot and you had people attempting fight you, hand to hand, having a pistol in your hand, would a round in the ground at their feet not be the best way of getting them to stop doing whatever they are trying to do.

I only saw the clip, so maybe Vickers went into more depth about what you're saying in the whole show. As it was depicted in the clip, it wasn't very clear.

But as you said, definitely a different level of Use of Force. Basically akin (but somewhat tactically more sound) to firing into the air...I guess.

Quick sea story... At one of my previous commands, our prime mission set involved Maritime Airborne Use of Force. Part of the training was the the UoF simulator where they plop you down into the middle of what seems like a '90's COPS episode and hand you an air-charged M9. In hindsight, it's a great simulator and I'm sure many here have used a similar device.

Well, one of the pilots was up for his training and was put in a scenario where he had to "encourage" the bad guy to stop whatever he was doing, but the action wasn't threatening yet. His solution: yelling, "Stop!!!" and firing his faux M9 into the air.

The simulation quickly stopped and a debrief ensued.

[Computalotapus]

I only saw the clip, so maybe Vickers went into more depth about what you're saying in the whole show. As it was depicted in the clip, it wasn't very clear.





But as you said, definitely a different level of Use of Force. Basically akin (but somewhat tactically more sound) to firing into the air...I guess.





Quick sea story... At one of my previous commands, our prime mission set involved Maritime Airborne Use of Force. Part of the training was the the UoF simulator where they plop you down into the middle of what seems like a '90's COPS episode and hand you an air-charged M9. In hindsight, it's a great simulator and I'm sure many here have used a similar device.





Well, one of the pilots was up for his training and was put in a scenario where he had to "encourage" the bad guy to stop whatever he was doing, but the action wasn't threatening yet. His solution: yelling, "Stop!!!" and firing his faux M9 into the air.





The simulation quickly stopped and a debrief ensued.





We had an Lt that loved to pull exercises all the time. He would want to fight and wrestle around. I figured I was in a restricted area where use of deadly force was authorized and if a bad guy didn't want to follow my verbal commands then racking the charging handle was the next step. I'm not going to go toe to toe with an unauthorized intruder in a restricted area. He stopped pulling exercises in my area after the second time.





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[GOST]

I like to pretend my wife's a Russian.

[DMViergever]

They do not train the way we do. They have different safety rules and use of force levels.

Think about it logically.

If you were in an active shooting situation, you shot people, you were being shot and you had people attempting fight you, hand to hand, having a pistol in your hand, would a round in the ground at their feet not be the best way of getting them to stop doing whatever they are trying to do.

If I am in an active shooting situation and people are trying to fight me with a pistol in hand I would imagine they have every intent to KILL me. If they just watched me shoot someone and are balsy enough to come at me like that a bullet in them would probably stop them a bit faster and indefinitely.

I too get what you are saying but damn...

[gatordev]

If I am in an active shooting situation and people are trying to fight me with a pistol in hand I would imagine they have every intent to KILL me. If they just watched me shoot someone and are balsy enough to come at me like that a bullet in them would probably stop them a bit faster and indefinitely.

I too get what you are saying but damn...

I guess the argument could be made: you could be protecting the very people that are shouting and pushing you while shooting at the "other" people.

I have personally incited a food riot (I mean really, how many people can say that!), and needed people to get away. But I certainly didn't want to hurt any of them. But still, shooting at your feet? Yikes.

[FortTom]

I propose we take up a collection and send one lucky member of WEVO to attend and participate in this drill, winner drawn randomly...[BD]

Seriously, though, I've heard "anecdotal" accounts of (Don't recall what they're called now) but formerly known as S.E.A.L. Team Six, members going through very dangerously similar kinds of training, and also that SEAL's have been killed in this type of training. True? I don't know, but if it were true, that's when I'd have to consider another occupation. Have heard rumors about Mossad operator's doing some pretty risky training also. Way to hard core for my blood.

I don't know if the Russians are just plain badass, or stupid or both.

FT

[voodoo_man]

Like I said, its just foreign to us since, well, it is actually foreign. We do not train that way, we do not have the same levels of escalation or deescalation and our levels of safety (handling of firearms) make sure we don't muzzle/sweep or even shoot at a direction where someone may possibly ever get hit by a bullet, unless we want them to get hit then we shoot at them.

In my opinion this type of training, for what those alpha guys do is good to go. It is as high speed as you get.

[FortTom]

Like I said, its just foreign to us since, well, it is actually foreign. We do not train that way, we do not have the same levels of escalation or deescalation and our levels of safety (handling of firearms) make sure we don't muzzle/sweep or even shoot at a direction where someone may possibly ever get hit by a bullet, unless we want them to get hit then we shoot at them.

In my opinion this type of training, for what those alpha guys do is good to go. It is as high speed as you get.

Yes, I'd say so, voodoo. DEFINETELY alpha guy thing. I guess I can't wrap my head around this type of training, for exactly the reason you stated. It's just totally foreign to us, and goes against the grain of every thing I've ever learned in the military or civilian world. I can certainly see the advantages a guy with this type of training would have in a completely berserk crazy situation, like a terrorist attack in a crowded place, with multiple actors.. etc. Still, it gives me the shivers just thinking about it.[wow] You screw up and yourself, or your buddy dies. Hard core training. I just hope some internet "commando's", somewhere, see's this and doesn't, like the title says, try this at home.

FT

[DMViergever]

Absolutely on the last two posts. It is just insane for sure,.

[voodoo_man]

Yes, I'd say so, voodoo. DEFINETELY alpha guy thing. I guess I can't wrap my head around this type of training, for exactly the reason you stated. It's just totally foreign to us, and goes against the grain of every thing I've ever learned in the military or civilian world. I can certainly see the advantages a guy with this type of training would have in a completely berserk crazy situation, like a terrorist attack in a crowded place, with multiple actors.. etc. Still, it gives me the shivers just thinking about it.[wow] You screw up and yourself, or your buddy dies. Hard core training. I just hope some internet "commando's", somewhere, see's this and doesn't, like the title says, try this at home.

FT

Of course someone will try this.

I mean we got guys trying to do CQB up close Defoor style target shooting and end up putting rounds in their thighs. Hell, I've seen people shoot themselves doing drills they shouldn't have done because they just don't have the skill level to do so.