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GOST
13 April 2014, 12:38
I've noticed that some companies have quit making 11.5" carbine barrels while others don't make carbine barrels shorter than 11.5". A local Gunsmith advised that my new upper that I'm building be a 11.5" rather than a 10.5" due to reliability. Do 10.5" barreled uppers have that much of issue with reliability? I have been considering using a 11.5" barrel with an 10.75" URX 3.1.

Hmac
13 April 2014, 13:15
Dwell time is an important consideration in having a reliable gas system. An 11.5 with carbine length gas system has a 40% longer dwell time than a 10.5 according to Paul Buffoni at BCM. I have a couple of BCM BFH barrels in 11.5. They have .073 gas ports and Bravo Company recommends an H buffer, but they cycle most lots of PMC Bronze just fine with an H2 buffer and full-auto BCG.

KevinBLC
13 April 2014, 13:23
Dwell time? Is that how long the gas is in the gas tube? Sorry for the newbie question. Still learning here.

GOST
13 April 2014, 13:39
Thanks HMAC this is my first venture with a SBR.

Hmac
13 April 2014, 14:34
I have no experience with 10.5s, but can attest that my 11.5 inch barrels run very well. I should specify that I don't run a suppressor on any rifle. That makes a difference as it changes the pressure profile.

tact
13 April 2014, 15:17
10.5s are perfectly fine and have been ran in special units for quite a few years.....no problems with my DI 10.5 or. 7.5 piston.....having the right size gas port is essential though.

Hmac
13 April 2014, 15:47
10.5s are perfectly fine and have been ran in special units for quite a few years.....no problems with my DI 10.5 or. 7.5 piston.....having the right size gas port is essential though.

Yup. No doubt. I'd have no worries running a 10.5 built by a reputable firearms mfgr or skilled armorer. Noveske makes a 10.5 that is tuned to perfection, I hear. The OP is building his SBR. What size gas port should he be drilling in his 10.5?

GOST
13 April 2014, 15:57
It's between a 10.5" and a 11.5". If I do a 10.5" the barrel will be a Noveske. I haven't decided on a barrel if I were to do a 11.5".

MoxyDave
13 April 2014, 16:03
Keep in mind there is a shit-ton of blast (technical term) from a 10.5" barrel. The manual for my Gemtech 5.56 suppressor says the warranty is borked if used on a barrel less than 12". Just something to consider.

GOST
13 April 2014, 16:09
Is the blast much different between a 10.5" and a 11.5"?

FortTom
13 April 2014, 16:36
Keep in mind there is a shit-ton of blast (technical term) from a 10.5" barrel. The manual for my Gemtech 5.56 suppressor says the warranty is borked if used on a barrel less than 12". Just something to consider.

Ha..Ha...ha.. MD, I experienced this about two weeks ago. Me and a bud went to the range and took several rifles with us. I shot his SBR piston pistol, and not only did I have a hell of a time controlling it, rapid fire, but the muzzle blast was something to behold. Something I was fairly familiar with from my days of handgun hunting, and working up loads at the bench, but this one caught me off guard. Now I know the proper unit of measure for this is "Shit-tons".[:D]

FT

Hmac
13 April 2014, 16:58
Is the blast much different between a 10.5" and a 11.5"?

Can't compare, but the blast from my 11.5 is greater than my 16 inch (SBR also has a BattleComp muzzle device). Not overly so...I notice it mostly shooting it indoors. Completely manageable, but noticeable.

In this video, the first rifle being shot is my 11.5 with BattleComp. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtpGrPpxIEA Watch it and draw your own conclusions.

tact
13 April 2014, 17:05
Keep in mind there is a shit-ton of blast (technical term) from a 10.5" barrel. The manual for my Gemtech 5.56 suppressor says the warranty is borked if used on a barrel less than 12". Just something to consider.

There are better suppressors that will handle a 7" barrel just fine.

KevinBLC
13 April 2014, 17:07
There are better suppressors that will handle a 7" barrel just fine.

Which ones? And will the warranty cover it?

tact
13 April 2014, 17:09
Which ones? And will the warranty cover it?

Yes I have the email with direct response from Silencerco rep on Saker series. They use a material 30% stronger than the regular Inconel.

tact
13 April 2014, 17:11
Yup. No doubt. I'd have no worries running a 10.5 built by a reputable firearms mfgr or skilled armorer. Noveske makes a 10.5 that is tuned to perfection, I hear. The OP is building his SBR. What size gas port should he be drilling in his 10.5?

It all depends on the manufacturer as some are more gassed than others, but there is plenty of data out there now for most flavors.

GOST
13 April 2014, 17:42
Nice video Hmac.

GOST
13 April 2014, 17:48
I remember reading an interview with Paul from BCM and him discussing why he would choose an 11.5". Then also seeing where KAC's CQB is also an 11.5". I'm leaning towards an 11.5" but I've got plenty of time to decide.

Hmac
13 April 2014, 18:32
I remember reading an interview with Paul from BCM and him discussing why he would choose an 11.5". Then also seeing where KAC's CQB is also an 11.5". I'm leaning towards an 11.5" but I've got plenty of time to decide.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_138/174764__Q__Why_BCM_chose_the_11_5_SBR_over_the_10_ 5_.html

GOST
13 April 2014, 18:53
That's the interview I read.

GOST
15 April 2014, 02:26
Has Noveske quit making 11.5"?

Hmac
15 April 2014, 16:10
I don't recall that they ever did. I wouldn't be reluctant to go with a Noveske 10.5 upper. BCM has a good 11.5 inch upper and/or barrel.

tact
15 April 2014, 17:20
I don't recall that they ever did. I wouldn't be reluctant to go with a Noveske 10.5 upper. BCM has a good 11.5 inch upper and/or barrel.

Why reluctant? I get you are a BCM fan but other than that......???

UWone77
15 April 2014, 17:46
Why reluctant? I get you are a BCM fan but other than that......???

He said he wouldn't be reluctant.

tact
15 April 2014, 17:47
Ok I'm an idiot apparently and can not read for crap ..... Sorry. All apologies!

UWone77
15 April 2014, 17:51
Ok I'm an idiot apparently and can not read for crap ..... Sorry. All apologies!

I've had many of those moments, when trying to read anything on a 4" iPhone screen. [:)]

Hmac
15 April 2014, 18:03
Ok I'm an idiot apparently and can not read for crap ..... Sorry. All apologies!

No worries. Actually I have a really excellent Noveske Light Recce as well as a couple of SBRs built with BCM barrels on Noveske matched uppers/lowers. Lots of confidence in both manufacturers.

GOST
15 April 2014, 18:20
Has anyone shot BCM's SS melonited 11.5"?

GOST
15 April 2014, 19:23
Or is it ion bonded? I don't know, but anyone shot one?

PistolPayIra
16 April 2014, 10:17
I run an 11.5 SBR and have never had issues with performance or accuracy..I think you will do fine with the same length. http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x370/irag2362/IMG_14941_zps2c4d4869.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/irag2362/media/IMG_14941_zps2c4d4869.jpg.html)

Hmac
16 April 2014, 14:37
Or is it ion bonded? I don't know, but anyone shot one?

I'd be pretty interested in a melonited 11.4 stripped BFH barrel, but I think the one you're referring to is a stainless steel barrel that's ion-bonded on the outside.

lamarbrog
23 August 2014, 17:23
I currently have an 11.5" BCM "pencil" barrel on my Colt's 733 clone. Full profile Colt's bolt carrier group and a Spike's ST-2 buffer. Standard carbine spring. It runs great with Tula, Federal XM193 and XM855, and IMI M193.

I am in the process of building two more SBRs. One with a 10.5" FN barrel, and another with a Daniel Defense "pencil" barrel cut down from 16" to 10". I'll try to update with how they each work. I'm thinking the 10" might have to have the gas port opened up. (XM177 clone)

UWone77
24 August 2014, 10:49
Glad this thread popped up again. I went ahead and ordered a 11.5" BCM upper (afterall, who can say no to a free BCM BCG). After messing around with half dozen 10.5" uppers I thought I'd shoot a 11.5" and see how it ran. I was originally going to just buy a Colt 6933, but this was the cheaper option for now.

I plan to keep the FSB, and use a Centurion Arms C4 7.0.

tact
24 August 2014, 17:09
Glad this thread popped up again. I went ahead and ordered a 11.5" BCM upper (afterall, who can say no to a free BCM BCG). After messing around with half dozen 10.5" uppers I thought I'd shoot a 11.5" and see how it ran. I was originally going to just buy a Colt 6933, but this was the cheaper option for now.

I plan to keep the FSB, and use a Centurion Arms C4 7.0.

I'd be interested to know your thoughts between the two different lengths.....

Sak007
24 August 2014, 17:09
Anybody have experience with the Sionics 11.5 ?
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store/category.php?id_category=10

GOST
24 August 2014, 19:51
I've got no experience with Sionics, but I've been seeing a lot great reviews on TOS.

UWone77
25 August 2014, 17:51
Anybody have experience with the Sionics 11.5 ?
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store/category.php?id_category=10

I don't have enough rounds down with my 16" but I purchased them at a time where they were a steal at $159, so I bought 2. So far the barrel has been accurate. I haven't used their 11.5" but a future purchase maybe in order. I have been pleased with all of my SIONICS gear so far.

eldogg
27 August 2014, 04:10
i bought one. for the price it was hard to turn down. nice craftsmanship, and more accurate than me. i only have about 2k down range, but runs great.

rob_s
27 August 2014, 05:05
I'm interested in keeping tabs on Scionics. Some of the people they have on-board are people I respect a great deal, and others...

The contradiction confounds me.

GOST
31 August 2014, 14:42
UW you tried out your 11.5" yet?

UWone77
1 September 2014, 08:03
UW you tried out your 11.5" yet?

No, haven't gotten a chance to hit the range with it yet. When I have time, I needed to put a handguard on it. Going with a 7" Centurion C4 Rail. Thought about just going with MOE's but I think I only have a mid-length one in the parts bin.

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/IMG_2282_zps0f7bd207.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/IMG_2282_zps0f7bd207.jpg.html)

GOST
1 September 2014, 13:31
You procrastinators are killing me.

UWone77
1 September 2014, 13:39
You procrastinators are killing me.

Sorry Brother! I can't shoot it with bare barrel and no handguards.

GOST
1 September 2014, 14:53
Arnold Schwartzenegger could.

UWone77
2 September 2014, 09:36
Arnold Schwartzenegger could.

Possibly the best answer yet. Hopefully, I can find the time to swap those rails in this week.

mustangfreek
2 September 2014, 13:00
Arnold Schwartzenegger could.


Lol...

GOST
3 September 2014, 17:14
Sorry Brother! I can't shoot it with bare barrel and no handguards.

I believe you can, you're just being modest.

UWone77
4 September 2014, 09:23
I believe you can, you're just being modest.

I'll go shoot it this weekend. Just realized I also need a rear backup sight! It's starting to nickel and dime!

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/IMG_2289_zpsb6791e35.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/IMG_2289_zpsb6791e35.jpg.html)

GOST
4 September 2014, 16:11
The write up on your thoughts on the new upper will be expected by no later than 0700 in 9/8/14.[BD]

Computalotapus
4 September 2014, 16:49
When you go can you take a pistol lower with you as well and let me know how that works :)

UWone77
4 September 2014, 17:28
When you go can you take a pistol lower with you as well and let me know how that works :)

What pistol lowers? The disassembled ones? [:D]

Computalotapus
4 September 2014, 18:13
What pistol lowers? The disassembled ones? [:D]


Make it happen I know you have it in you.

GOST
4 September 2014, 18:34
It's good that we have motivational speakers like Computalotapus.[:D]

GOST
5 September 2014, 01:59
Wanting to try the barrel out of one of these in my new build.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-11-5-Carbine-Enhanced-Lightweight-FLUTED-p/bcm-urg-11elwf-kmr10.htm

KevinBLC
5 September 2014, 20:20
I really really wish I could venture into a SBR upper.

Hmac
6 September 2014, 11:55
I really really wish I could venture into a SBR upper.

Why can't you?

rob_s
8 September 2014, 05:11
Wanting to try the barrel out of one of these in my new build.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-11-5-Carbine-Enhanced-Lightweight-FLUTED-p/bcm-urg-11elwf-kmr10.htm

I was really close to buying one of those, then the 14.5"/13.0, then the 16"/15.0 (which isn't out yet, I don't think)... then I realized I had a Colt 6933 upper sitting around pretty much stock and pretty much unfired, and the lower it came on, and kind of wound up building a similar upper around that. obviously the barrel on mine is just a standard 0.625" OD, 11.5" barrel, but I got the 10.0, the BCM comp, the BCM keymod VFG, BCM's new flip sights... now I just need to go brave the public range on public day and get it zeroed.

If all goes well, I may also skip the 16" version and turn my 6520 flattop Colt into a matching example. Would be funny to come 'round after all this time to having two matched guns again, one 11.5" and one 16", but with all the "new hotness".

Iraqgunz
10 September 2014, 14:45
We have several law enforcement agencies and civilians using the Melonite barrels. The accuracy has been outstanding as well. An LE agency in GA shot a 1 MOA group with our 11.5" with a Leupold scope and their duty round. Across the board our chrome lined and Melonite barrels shoot very good. They are all 4150CMV, proper gas ports sizes, correct 5.56 chambers, etc...


Anybody have experience with the Sionics 11.5 ?
http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store/category.php?id_category=10

UWone77
10 September 2014, 19:12
We have several law enforcement agencies and civilians using the Melonite barrels. The accuracy has been outstanding as well. An LE agency in GA shot a 1 MOA group with our 11.5" with a Leupold scope and their duty round. Across the board our chrome lined and Melonite barrels shoot very good. They are all 4150CMV, proper gas ports sizes, correct 5.56 chambers, etc...

I'm a big fan of SIONICS products. My next SBR upper will be built around a 11.5" Barrel. Gunz, I need the industry price. [:D]

Anyhow, GOST, I didn't have much range time to dedicate to shoot the 11.5" BCM. Only got 210 rounds down range on Monday with it. I was mainly shooting the 10.3" DD Barrel. Anyhow, the 11.5" is a smooth shooter, but hard to say if it's any smoother than a 10.3-10.5" The BCM upper did remind me of the fact there is nothing wrong with using a $5 A2 FH.

Ride4frnt
10 September 2014, 19:39
Wish sionics made a 10.5". Not sure I want a 11.5" on the pistol build.

Computalotapus
10 September 2014, 19:45
Yeah I think I am going to go with a 10.5" as well.
Sent from my Windows Phone 8.1

Iraqgunz
10 September 2014, 20:49
We do not plan on 10.5". The one inch in length isn't going to be missed by anyone even with a pistol build. The difference in dwell time and the overall reliability is more important which is why we stick with it.


Wish sionics made a 10.5". Not sure I want a 11.5" on the pistol build.

Gaspipeshooter
11 September 2014, 08:41
We do not plan on 10.5". The one inch in length isn't going to be missed by anyone even with a pistol build. The difference in dwell time and the overall reliability is more important which is why we stick with it.

Based on my research, what you said is exactly why I chose an 11.5" barrel for my pistol build.

Calengor
11 September 2014, 11:26
Wish sionics made a 10.5". Not sure I want a 11.5" on the pistol build.

You'll be using the SB-15 brace, right? I got to shoulder Pat Roger's 11.5" KMR uppered pistol with the SB-15 and it was a nice length for getting your hand a bit further forward. Didn't seem too long. Felt pretty much like my MK18 SBR.

Ride4frnt
11 September 2014, 11:33
You'll be using the SB-15 brace, right? I got to shoulder Pat Roger's 11.5" KMR uppered pistol with the SB-15 and it was a nice length for getting your hand a bit further forward. Didn't seem too long. Felt pretty much like my MK18 SBR.

I'm using a 12" handguard anyway so the barrel will be tucked either way. I may go the 11.5" route. I'm not sure yet.

UWone77
11 September 2014, 11:45
We have several law enforcement agencies and civilians using the Melonite barrels. The accuracy has been outstanding as well. An LE agency in GA shot a 1 MOA group with our 11.5" with a Leupold scope and their duty round. Across the board our chrome lined and Melonite barrels shoot very good. They are all 4150CMV, proper gas ports sizes, correct 5.56 chambers, etc...

So Gunz, on a duty 11.5" upper, would you go melonite over your Chrome Lined offering?

Ride4frnt
11 September 2014, 11:50
So Gunz, on a duty 11.5" upper, would you go melonite over your Chrome Lined offering?

Also wondering the same. And I'd like to hear some benefits from you guys for going 11.5" over 10.5". $250 for the melonite sionics barrel, geissele gas block and tube has piqued my interest. I'm definitely not going 7.5" and I doubt the 1" from 10.5" will kill me.

Gaspipeshooter
11 September 2014, 13:16
I doubt the 1" from 10.5" will kill me.

Especially if you use a 12" handguard...[:D]

Calengor
11 September 2014, 14:13
Also wondering the same. And I'd like to hear some benefits from you guys for going 11.5" over 10.5". $250 for the melonite sionics barrel, geissele gas block and tube has piqued my interest. I'm definitely not going 7.5" and I doubt the 1" from 10.5" will kill me.

I have a 10.5 MK18 clone. Having said that, the reason I've seen quoted most often on the intertubes is 11.5 has significantly improved reliability. See Paul from BCM's answer below:


Q: Why BCM chose the 11.5" SBR over the 10.5"

I get this question a lot. It is a good one. When we spec our program we can build anything we would like, so we sat down and looked at the pros and cons.

First Statement: I know a good 10.5" SBR can run very well. I personally own a semi MK18 type and it runs great. No problems.

A: Dwell time.
Dwell time is the time that your gas operated weapon maintains pressure to continue the cycling of the weapon. It primarily exsists from the time the bullet passes the gas port in the barrel to the time the bullet exits the muzzle. When you pull the trigger and fire the weapon the movement of the bolt carrier group unlocks the bolt, extracts, and ejects the spent casing. Then it cocks the weapon, feeds, chambers the next round, and then locks again. One of the thing that can make SBRs finicky is the dwell time (or lack of).

The 11.5" carbine is approximately 4% longer weapon than its' 10.5" counterpart, but this extra inch gives the barrel a 40% increase in length for dwell time. IMHO, this is an excellent trade off. This additional dwell time (all other things being equal) will allow the carbine to be more forgiving to different ammo types, extremes in air temperature, weak or worn extractor springs, worn extractors, buffer weights, etc.

Last Statement: For those folks who have a 10.5" that works very well, I would reply; me too. (see first statement)

If I had to "go to war" with a AR15 Carbine, I would grab the BCM 11.5".
The BCM 11.5" Runs Like a Dream.

Hope this info helps,
Paul

Ride4frnt
11 September 2014, 14:39
I have a 10.5 MK18 clone. Having said that, the reason I've seen quoted most often on the intertubes is 11.5 has significantly improved reliability. See Paul from BCM's answer below:

Good answer. Got me thinking. This pistol will be SBR'd sometime. 11.5" gets me closer to that maryland length too...

UWone77
11 September 2014, 16:32
Good answer. Got me thinking. This pistol will be SBR'd sometime. 11.5" gets me closer to that maryland length too...

So originally were you going to put a 10.5 on a 12" rail? What kind of muzzle device were you going to go with?

Ride4frnt
11 September 2014, 16:46
So originally were you going to put a 10.5 on a 12" rail? What kind of muzzle device were you going to go with?

KX3 or PWS CQB.

But, after reading and doing some research, I guess it's probably in my better interest to go 11.5. Figure if the kx3 is 3.25 inches long, and half inch overlaps the barrel, and another half tucks under the rail, that leaves 2 inches out the front.

Gaspipeshooter
12 September 2014, 03:32
Good answer. Got me thinking. This pistol will be SBR'd sometime. 11.5" gets me closer to that maryland length too...

I specifically bought an Aero "Pistol" marked lower so there would be no questioning whether it was an SBR by uneducated folks at the range, and that my pistol build was a in fact a pistol. Now that my NFA trust is done, I will be SBR'ing an additional receiver or two. I have a Voodoo Innovations 11.5" medium contour barrel on the bench right now, along with an Adams Arms piston kit. I have a feeling it will be somewhat heavy, but for the price I paid for the barrel and piston kit set up shipped to my door, (compared to a lot of barrels out there I basically got the piston kit darn near free), I figured I'd experiment with the piston system. I need to decide on a MD now. For the next upper, I'm considering a 12.5" barrel DI gas set up for an actual SBR.

Iraqgunz
12 September 2014, 13:06
I think either would be a good choice. The melonite advantage is that you have a more uniform coating and wear resistance. But, chrome lined barrels are a proven and probably still eclipse the melonite in terms of overall sales. We probably sell 3 chrome lined barrels for every 1 melonite. We are going to focus more on the melonite 16" barrels and a few new offerings that we are working on. There will be some LW dissipator and medium contour dissipator stuff coming soon.

Image a nice dissipator upper with something like a Geissele MKII rail or a 12" MI KeyMod rail.


So Gunz, on a duty 11.5" upper, would you go melonite over your Chrome Lined offering?

Ride4frnt
12 September 2014, 16:12
Welp, 11.5" it is. I just saw a 10.3" with the muzzle device I plan to use and I'm not a huge fan of it aesthetically. If I don't even like how it looks, and then it didn't perform right, I'd be t.o.'d