Pistol Build

[ZKK]

I have recently decided to build my first pistol. I am almost finished I still need a rear sight and a grip but I am very pleased with how it turned out. I have put just under 500 rounds through it, a mix of 193, 109 and wolf. Not a single problem, so far it has been flawless. I got it very hot, I did numerous mag dumps pushing speed and accuracy in various drills. It seems to shoot much like my 14.5 middy, just a bit louder. Man is this thing a sweet little package!
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/johnleehomicide/0072-2.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/johnleehomicide/media/0072-2.jpg.html)

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/johnleehomicide/0082-3.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/johnleehomicide/media/0082-3.jpg.html)
I wanted to build a simple, light home defense package that would be cost effective.
Stag Lower
Daniel Defense lpk
Phase 5 Tactical pistol buffer tube
Sig SB 15 Arm brace
Carbine buffer and spring

BCM 11.5" upper
BCM bcg
BCM medium charging handle
Magpul handguard

Aimpoint C3/ADM mount
Blue Force Gear 2 point padded sling
Surefire G2x in Viking Tactics mount

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/johnleehomicide/0202-2.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/johnleehomicide/media/0202-2.jpg.html)

The Phase 5 Tactical pistol buffer tube fit the SB15 very tight, it has not moved during shooting and I don't think it will under normal use. If it was hammered on the ground it may move some but it should not be an issue to move it back. One bonus is that there is no rattle!
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/johnleehomicide/0122-1.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/johnleehomicide/media/0122-1.jpg.html)

I am really stoked about this pistol build. I believe it is about the perfect defensive weapon for civilians. I'll keep you updated and try to get more pics when it is totally finished. Thanks

[Eric]

Nice build. Functional without a bunch of junk. Maybe an H2 buffer down the road?

[Pyzik]

Nice build.
That first picture is awesome.

Since you're in MI how does that build fall under the lines of a pistol? OAL under 26"?
I've been wanting to build a pistol but am having don't want a 7" barrel and pretty much anything else I look at puts me over 26" OAL.

PS, I recognize that "knife" in the second pic! Then ZKK rang a bell... Zombie Killer Kutlery!

[Soisauss]

Excellent build op! And I agree it's the perfect home defense PDW that's not an hk45 our mp5 that does not require a stamp. Also the closest I'll get to owning a sbr without a stamp.

I to am working on finishing up my 10.5 pistol build. Just missing rails, gas block and gas tube.

[ZKK]

I did a lot of research on this subject as Michigan had the 2013 law changes. According to the ffl where I purchased my lower (they sell many AR pistols) is that as long as the lower is registered as a pistol, and does not have a receiver extension that will accept a stock any length barrel is acceptable. To verify I asked a leo gun nut buddy to look it up, he said the same thing, he has an AR pistol also. He said if it was the case than everyone moving to Michigan with pistols over 26" is breaking the law and it would be impossible to legislate. I have also been seeing the Sig M400 pistol everywhere in Michigan for sale. I believe people are missing the point of the law, any gun under 26" must be registered as a pistol or an sbr. The purpose of the law is to have sbr's and pistols registered not to restrict barrel length on a pistol. The laws are very confusing.



Yup thats me, Zombie Killer Kutlery. Just stated getting back in the saddle grinding steel again after another surgery. I do have a post here on Weapon Evolution, I have a few blades that are available. [:)]

Nice build.
That first picture is awesome.

Since you're in MI how does that build fall under the lines of a pistol? OAL under 26"?
I've been wanting to build a pistol but am having don't want a 7" barrel and pretty much anything else I look at puts me over 26" OAL.



PS, I recognize that "knife" in the second pic! Then ZKK rang a bell... Zombie Killer Kutlery!

[ZKK]

Nice build. Functional without a bunch of junk. Maybe an H2 buffer down the road? Gonna work my way up and see how she eats. It is still really smooth with the cabine buffer.

Thanks guys, I have some pretty poor camera skills and a really bad camera, I get lucky sometimes and get 1 out of about 30 pics turn out. The new Mrs. ZKK may be taking over camera duty.

[Pyzik]

I did a lot of research on this subject as Michigan had the 2013 law changes. According to the ffl where I purchased my lower (they sell many AR pistols) is that as long as the lower is registered as a pistol, and does not have a receiver extension that will accept a stock any length barrel is acceptable. To verify I asked a leo gun nut buddy to look it up, he said the same thing, he has an AR pistol also. He said if it was the case than everyone moving to Michigan with pistols over 26" is breaking the law and it would be impossible to legislate. I have also been seeing the Sig M400 pistol everywhere in Michigan for sale. I believe people are missing the point of the law, any gun under 26" must be registered as a pistol or an sbr. The purpose of the law is to have sbr's and pistols registered not to restrict barrel length on a pistol. The laws are very confusing.

Yup thats me, Zombie Killer Kutlery. Just stated getting back in the saddle grinding steel again after another surgery. I do have a post here on Weapon Evolution, I have a few blades that are available. [:)]
That makes sense. I do realize it's more about registration and less about restricting weapons.

I was initially gonna use my stripped lower I have sitting here as a pistol, then when I thought I could only go 7" barrel I started thinking SPR... Now I am thinking pistol again.
I think I just need another lower and do BOTH!

Back on topic.

[ZKK]

That makes sense. I do realize it's more about registration and less about restricting weapons.

I was initially gonna use my stripped lower I have sitting here as a pistol, then when I thought I could only go 7" barrel I started thinking SPR... Now I am thinking pistol again.
I think I just need another lower and do BOTH!

Back on topic.

I believe you will need a new lower and register it as a pistol when you buy it from your ffl. To make a rifle lower into a pistol lower requires forms and fees. Just do both, a rifle and a pistol, perfect siblings,a pistol and an SPR, that is my plan.

I like the BCM 11.5, shoots real dang smooth and surprisingly fast and accurate. We did a lot speed shooting drills, I was curious how the shorter barrel affected recoil and ability to get off quick follow up shots. I was able to keep most rounds on a paper plate at 10 yards shooting as fast as I could run a new DD trigger group. I was able to easily drill a antifreeze jug at just under 100 yards off hand and make it dance kneeling.

A buddy is now building a BCM 11.5 pistol with their KMR rail and a Mega billet lower. It's gonna be sick, I'll get pics. I really wanted to keep this light, simple but effective.

[Pyzik]

Well, not to further hijack the thread... but I stopped into ATEi on my way home and played with Doug's 10.5" pistol.

I am DEFINITELY building a pistol with this lower. That seemed like FUN gun.

[Iraqgunz]

I recommend an H2 or H3 regardless of how it functions now. SBR's were designed to use heavier buffers which is why the Colt 6933 uses an H2 for example. And I know from testing and having fired over 28K cumulative rounds through my 11.5" and 12,5" BCM uppers it will work. I would also recommend a blue Sprinco spring as well. That upper has a .076 gas port and will run with either of those mentioned as long as you don't shoot some garbage through it.

I also recommend staking that endplate.

[ZKK]

I recommend an H2 or H3 regardless of how it functions now. SBR's were designed to use heavier buffers which is why the Colt 6933 uses an H2 for example. And I know from testing and having fired over 28K cumulative rounds through my 11.5" and 12,5" BCM uppers it will work. I would also recommend a blue Sprinco spring as well. That upper has a .076 gas port and will run with either of those mentioned as long as you don't shoot some garbage through it.

I also recommend staking that endplate.

Thanks for the info! This is my fist pistol. Yah, I was gonna use a H2/Sprinco combo, I saw a Deny Ducet video and found some stuff on M4C suggesting this on shorter barrels. I will stake the endplate as soon as I figure out which endplate to go with and when I get some more cash . I also want a forward sling quick detach for the Moe, a K2 grip and a rear sight. Not sure what sight I want to use yet.

Honestly this was my home defense budget build just to get a firearm in the home again. I don't like being unarmed and have been very uneasy. I recently had my third surgery including a quadruple bypass in the past 15 months. I had 2 heart attacks and much had to do with the relentless stress I was under doing armed security for the same company for 13 years. They flushed me like yesterdays turd after 13 years of drugs, prostitutes ,pimps, numerous violent assaults, crazy domestic violence. I sacrificed my health for a paycheck thinking these people would take care of me if something happened. A building full of surgeons, doctors, attorneys, a federal judge and on and on, all turned their back on the employees.

One of the worst things is that I have lost almost every gun I own including my 226 that I carried for 10 years at work and multiple AR builds. I sold my last and favorite 14.5 BCM and hit the lowest low ever, I had to build something. So the pistol is on the cheap for me. There isn't much I can do about it as I am still really messed up and suffer from a severe lack of blood flow to my brain, feet and hands. I'm trying to make knives but it is very hard to even get a single knife made. I have no disability and my unemployment got cut short. I have a wife and kid and we are really having a hard time.

Not to cry and bitch about my medical issues but I guess I should have explained the reasons I went with what I did in this pistol. I kinda had to use many parts I had on hand but plan on updating parts when money allows. Thanks for the info guys I wouldn't have pulled it off as good as I did with what I had to work without the help.

[ZKK]

I've always used a two point sling but considering the size and weight of the pistol I may try a single point. I've been looking around and I was thinking ?... http://ikickhippies.com/products/sling-loop-ambidextrous-plate-slap with http://www.optactical.com/tagcqcsihosl.html

[Computalotapus]

Been very happy with the Phase 5 Revo Sling Plate and their single point bungee sling

http://www.computalotapus.com/images/sling1.jpg

[UWone77]

MS3 QD/MS4 with a QD End plate like Fortis, Noveske, ect in my opinion is the way to go. Of course there are many other similar setups out there. I'd go with the sling that feels comfortable for you if you desire a 1 point.

[ZKK]

Yah, not sure yet, I have this odd paranoid thought process where it's hard for me to trust quick detach, maybe with this light and small pistol I'll give it a try. It would be nice to easily take the sling off and on. I do know that my traditional 2 point rifle set up seems bulky and unnecessary on the pistol. For the purpose of the pistol as a home defense weapon a quick detach end plate does seem to make more sense. I won't be able to take any classes until my health improves, just short trips to the range.

Is there any difference in QD end plates?

The Phase 5 sling does look really nice. I've had my eye on one since the start of this build. Thanks

[Computalotapus]

The phase 5 sling has been nice. I have never used a QD sling system either but my next build will have one. Right now i have the tactical link 360 mount on the list but might swap that out for the PWS EBT.

[GaSwamper]

I've got plans for a 10.5 pistol build this year and was planning to use the Sig brace as well. Is the phase 5 tube a good choice for use with the Sig or does anyone prefer another buffer tube? Also since I mention phase 5 does anyone have experience with their billet upper? I know the no FA would turn some off but its a really clean looking piece.

[ZKK]

Phase 5 is 7075 and uses a castle nut. They were also recommended by a member here that has many more builds under his belt than I. If you run your "arm brace" closer to the receiver the standard Phase 5 pistol tube works nice. The fit is very tight but mine did move a little forward, but that can be cured with a couple wraps of gorilla tape. If you want a longer length of pull Phase 5 appears to be making a longer tube with a stop to stop the arm brace from sliding forward. I believe it is the Hex-2.

There are the KAK tubes many people seem to be using but I am not certain what they are made from.

[GaSwamper]

Phase 5 is 7075 and uses a castle nut. They were also recommended by a member here that has many more builds under his belt than I. If you run your "arm brace" closer to the receiver the standard Phase 5 pistol tube works nice. The fit is very tight but mine did move a little forward, but that can be cured with a couple wraps of gorilla tape. If you want a longer length of pull Phase 5 appears to be making a longer tube with a stop to stop the arm brace from sliding forward. I believe it is the Hex-2.

There are the KAK tubes many people seem to be using but I am not certain what they are made from.

Thanks just the kind of info I was looking for. I've heard a lot mention the KAK tubes as well but never why they preferred it.

[UWone77]

KAK tubes, especially the new Gen IIs are made specifically for use with the Sig Arm Brace.They machined a hard stop on the tube that keeps the brace from moving and allows for the use of the original AR15 castle nut and receiver end plate. KAK has machined it to the Sig Arm Brace internal diameter to keep it from moving under while firing. The tube weighs in at 6.2oz and is anodized. I'm not sure if it uses 6061 or 7075 aluminum though. KAK also offers spacers to use if you have extra long arms, or like your brace further back.

If you don't plan to use a Sig Arm Brace, the Phase 5's are just fine. I've used a couple without issue.

[GaSwamper]

KAK tubes, especially the new Gen IIs are made specifically for use with the Sig Arm Brace.They machined a hard stop on the tube that keeps the brace from moving and allows for the use of the original AR15 castle nut and receiver end plate. KAK has machined it to the Sig Arm Brace internal diameter to keep it from moving under while firing. The tube weighs in at 6.2oz and is anodized. I'm not sure if it uses 6061 or 7075 aluminum though. KAK also offers spacers to use if you have extra long arms, or like your brace further back.

If you don't plan to use a Sig Arm Brace, the Phase 5's are just fine. I've used a couple without issue.

Good to know as well. I will definatly be using the brace so I'll probly look a little closer at the KAK tube now thanks. The 6061 7075 issue isn't really a concern being they are very close other than the addition of magnesium and copper for a little more strength in the 7075 which you'll probly never see the benefit of in AR uses other than piece of mind and a little more expensive.

[UWone77]

I use 7075 tubes in all of my AR's. I agree most will probably never see a difference, but the few times in your life you have to mortar that rifle of yours, it's nice to know that your receiver extension won't break or bend. I've mangled a couple of 6061 tubes, but so far not a 7075. Your mileage of course will vary depending on use.

[ZKK]

An inconspicuous ,inexpensive day pack.
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/johnleehomicide/0012-6.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/johnleehomicide/media/0012-6.jpg.html)
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/johnleehomicide/0042-2.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/johnleehomicide/media/0042-2.jpg.html)
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/johnleehomicide/0072-3.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/johnleehomicide/media/0072-3.jpg.html)

[KevinBLC]

You like the A2 Grip?

[ZKK]

You like the A2 Grip?
Hate it, broke as a joke. I am thinking about a K2 or the new Mod 3 BCM. As soon as I can feed, cloth and keep a roof over the wife and kids heads I'll upgrade. This was my "budget build". I had 3 heart surgeries in under 2 years, one more to go, it has left me penniless and really weak. I almost lost my home ,lost my car and my beloved truck, now I am, carless. I had to sell almost all my guns even the AR's I assembled. It has been very sad and gloomy, I sold my last rifle. But used $140 of the money and purchased a lower, sold a pistol and some older prototype knives and my soon to be wife helped pay for the rest. Can't be unarmed, they may as well just killed me in the hospital. I've been real weak and it is getting worse, before my first heart attack I was running 3 times a week, benching 405 and deadlifting over 700, now it hurts to get in and out of bed.



I even have to sell off my personal Brain Breacher, it's off on a world wide adventures with a Marine. I can always make more,[crazy] I hope.
http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/johnleehomicide/0082-4.jpg (http://s514.photobucket.com/user/johnleehomicide/media/0082-4.jpg.html)

[GOST]

The K2 is very comfortable.

[ZKK]

To finish up the build I just need a qd endplate and a grip.
With all the new grips out since my last build a couple years back. Whats grips are you guys liking these days?

[GOST]

I usually run a MOE+. The K2 is nice for SBR and pistol builds because of the grip angle. The angle places the wrist in a more comfortable position. The BCM grips are similar to the HK grips with about the same angle as the K2. To me both the K2 and UCWRG grip are a little more comfortable than the BCM grips due to the back of the grip not allowing your hand to ride to high. When I use the BCM grips I get pressure on my middle finger, it doesn't bother me at first but does later in the day. But you may like the higher positioning of the hand, a lot of my buddies prefer the BCM grips.

[tact]

I prefer to use PWS buffer tubes myself....machined exceptionally well and I think castle nuts are stupid.