KeyMod Vs M-Lok

[tappedandtagged]

I've decided to lighten up my rifle by going with a lighter rail system. Currently I have the Midwest Iindustries extended carbine picatinny rail. Its heavy at over a pound (barrel nut included).

With MI new offerings, I see that I can likely shave 1/2 lb off AND add 2.5" of rail space by going with the SSK Key Mod or MLok series (MLok not yet released but I hope it will be by the beginning of next month). So, I'm pretty sure I want to go ahead and do it.

But... I don't want to go with one technology just to have the market leave it behind in 5 years time leaving me without direct attach accessories. In reality, all I am going to want to add is a light mount.

So, KeyMod, MLok, the next design or something else? I'm wanting a 15" rail that's light (main attraction to MI's new stuff).

[Slippers]

If all you want to use is a light mount, then does it matter if the industry abandons the system in a few years? It's not like you'll be highly invested in accessories, so if the Next Big Thing in handguards comes out in 3-4 years time, you can simply switch.

Otherwise, if you're really worried about industry support years from now, you had best stick with picatinny quad rails. M-Lok handguards and accessories aren't even available yet, so it's impossible to know what will happen between the two non-picatinny standards.

[GOST]

Between M-LOK and Keymod I like the later better. If I was in the market for a super light rail I would wait for the BCM KMR 15", it's been reported to be less than 9 oz including barrel nut. So far nobody can beat the KMR for mounting possibilities and weight.

[tappedandtagged]

I've looked at the BCM KMR already. I think Mr. GunsNGear did a youtube video of it. I didn't know there were plans for a 15" tube though. But, I guess that makes sense.

I really really like the QD swivel locations on the MI SSK ones. I can get it for under 2 bills shipped from DSG arms which isn't bad. And I hope to sell my old rail for 100 to off set it at least some.

Back to the BCM KMR.... In the archery world, the magnesium bows are sort of approached with hesitation due to durability issues since its basically pot metal. Is the KMR the same? I'm not going to battle with the thing but it will see hard use in the woods and on a farm killing evasive feral hogs.

I've also been looking at the Seekings MCSR (about 165 shipped), but there is no specs on weight. I plan on calling them tomorrow to see if they have any specs.

All in all, the Midwest Industries rail has the most visual appeal to me and I really like the QD sling attachment way out there at the end of the rail (where I'd put it). It is a top contender.

Gost, I think I will go toward the Keymod. It really seems to be gaining traction. I'll get one or two rails to throw in a drawer for future use if it tanks and run my BUIS and light mount on the 12 o'clock rail like I do now.

[FortTom]

I've looked at the BCM KMR already. I think Mr. GunsNGear did a youtube video of it. I didn't know there were plans for a 15" tube though. But, I guess that makes sense.

I really really like the QD swivel locations on the MI SSK ones. I can get it for under 2 bills shipped from DSG arms which isn't bad. And I hope to sell my old rail for 100 to off set it at least some.

Back to the BCM KMR.... In the archery world, the magnesium bows are sort of approached with hesitation due to durability issues since its basically pot metal. Is the KMR the same? I'm not going to battle with the thing but it will see hard use in the woods and on a farm killing evasive feral hogs.

I've also been looking at the Seekings MCSR (about 165 shipped), but there is no specs on weight. I plan on calling them tomorrow to see if they have any specs.

All in all, the Midwest Industries rail has the most visual appeal to me and I really like the QD sling attachment way out there at the end of the rail (where I'd put it). It is a top contender.

Gost, I think I will go toward the Keymod. It really seems to be gaining traction. I'll get one or two rails to throw in a drawer for future use if it tanks and run my BUIS and light mount on the 12 o'clock rail like I do now.

I have both the BCM KMR and the MI SSK. The BCM rail will ding, divot and scratch easily, but I don't baby any of my rifles, and none are "Barbies" and while I don't intentionally abuse them, if they get a ding here or there, it's "oh well". Pic's of 4 year old rifles, meticulously cleaned weekly with Q-tip's and only brought out of the safe for friends and photo's isn't my thing. Nothing wrong with that, I see a lot of it. That being said, other's results with the BCM KMR rail will vary for sure.

The rifle for the MI SSK (15"), isn't complete yet, but hopefully will be by end of summer or sooner, so I can't comment on it. I'm curious to see how it stands up. I think the weight for it is approx. 9oz. including barrel nut.

As far as which will be around and which will be forgotten, well I think that's painfully clear. Just as a handful of vendors have started offering accessories for the K-Mod format, someone, I think it was UWone77, posted an announcement from Magpul about the M-LOK, and the list of supporting vendors was pretty staggering, something like 20 or 30 maybe? And that's just a start. I like the K-MOD format, but I think it's running on fumes, now. No need to tear them off of your rifles, one can always buy a short piece of rail for picatinny accessories, but I've pretty much got all the accessories I need for now, (KMR) so I'm not going to mourn it's death, if that is what actually happens.[:D]

FT[:D]
FT

[Deckard]

I think it's way to early to start comparing the two. M-Lok accessories aren't even out yet. Personally I'll just wait for an attachment system that doesn't require tools (looks like keymod is going that way with BCM's keymod VFG).

[UWone77]

I think it's way to early to start comparing the two. M-Lok accessories aren't even out yet. Personally I'll just wait for an attachment system that doesn't require tools (looks like keymod is going that way with BCM's keymod VFG).

This.

Gents, M-LOK, and the subsequent Magpul accessories aren't even out yet. Until we get a full idea of what is actually being released and what kind of accessories Magpul puts out, wondering about which platform might be abandoned is getting way ahead of ourselves.

Right now there is plenty of support for KeyMod, Noveske, BCM, Mega, ect, so I don't think it's going anywhere.

Personally, I still like my Centurion Arms C4 Quad rails. When I got a Aero M4E1 upper, I couldn't decide on M-Lok or KeyMod, so I opted for the quad.

[tappedandtagged]

This.

Gents, M-LOK, and the subsequent Magpul accessories aren't even out yet. Until we get a full idea of what is actually being released and what kind of accessories Magpul puts out, wondering about which platform might be abandoned is getting way ahead of ourselves.

Right now there is plenty of support for KeyMod, Noveske, BCM, Mega, ect, so I don't think it's going anywhere.

Personally, I still like my Centurion Arms C4 Quad rails. When I got a Aero M4E1 upper, I couldn't decide on M-Lok or KeyMod, so I opted for the quad.

I like my quad rail, I just don't like the weight. And I wish the QD was out further. If someone will remind me I'll take it to work Wednesday night and put it on the postal scale we have and weight it out. On paper, I should be able to cut nearly 1/2 pound by going with the MI SSK or MLok rail. More if I don't get the 15" rail.

http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz121/zlwhite/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140325_164835036_zpshb7sdksi.jpg (http://s820.photobucket.com/user/zlwhite/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20140325_164835036_zpshb7sdksi.jpg.html)

[UWone77]

What's the full specs on your rifle?

[tappedandtagged]

It started life as a Windham SRC (railed gas block). Barrel has been swapped out to a 16" Windham M4 profile 1:9 barrel with a pinned FSB.

From back to front:

Vltor Imod Clubfoot (factory commercial reciever extension still)
Magpul MOE + grip
Magpul MOE trigger guard
BCM Med Gunfighter Charging Handle
Samson Mfg rear flip up BUIS
Factory BCG
KNS pins on factory fire control group (Geissele G2S is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow, the KNS pins won't go back on)
EoTech 512
Lancer opaque mag
US Nightvision DTOM mag well "slap"
Midwest Industries Gen 2 Extended Carbine free float quad rail
Surefire Railcovers
Elzetta ZRX light mount
Streamlight Polytac LED
SilencerCo Trifecta
SWR SpecWar 556 (Not pictured)
Painted in Brownells Alumna Hyde II OD Green

[FortTom]

This.

Gents, M-LOK, and the subsequent Magpul accessories aren't even out yet. Until we get a full idea of what is actually being released and what kind of accessories Magpul puts out, wondering about which platform might be abandoned is getting way ahead of ourselves.

Right now there is plenty of support for KeyMod, Noveske, BCM, Mega, ect, so I don't think it's going anywhere.

Personally, I still like my Centurion Arms C4 Quad rails. When I got a Aero M4E1 upper, I couldn't decide on M-Lok or KeyMod, so I opted for the quad.

UW,

I don't think we've reached a state of mass panic, one way or the other, but I believe it was one of your posts that begat "the writing on the wall". [:)]

A handfull of vendors are putting out a few items, mostly the same things that the others are offering, for Keymod.

It was one of the posts in the new products thread, or announcements, I don't remember, about a month ago or so that heralded the Magpul M LOK system, and listed a bunch of vendors, maybe 20 or so, who were announcing that they were onboard with Magpul's version. Not that it really matters, or at least to me (I've got Quad Rails) 2 Keymod's, and another I won in the members give away. I'll be able to get what matters to me. Maybe on my absolutely, positively, no doubt, very last build, I'll be using something else, can't say.

But my point is, when you get 20 or more vendors throwing their hat in the ring for a brand new system, others are sure to follow, and I think Keymod support will dwindle to supplies on hand.

And lastly, this Poll was a little vague. Keymod Vs. M-LOK. Didn't know if that was a question, statement, an invite for debate, who owns what, or what. When I see an Aimpoint mount for one or the other, machined in the top of the hand guard, in lieu of a rail, then I think we'll know.[:D]

FT

[tappedandtagged]

And lastly, this Poll was a little vague. Keymod Vs. M-LOK. Didn't know if that was a question, statement, an invite for debate, who owns what, or what.

To answer that.... Yes :D My hopes was that folks would debate, hypothesize, theorize, argue and talk about these two systems.
The actual poll, well, that's just for fun. My experience on forums has shown that people like polls.

Now moving on...... Here is what I like about the Key Mod system, it's not brand spanking new and several manufacturers are making it and direct attach accessories are becoming more abundant.

What I don't like about KM is that for the length of time it's been put, direct attach accessories aren't as common as I think they should be. I also think it looks stupid ugly.... But it is growing on me, albeit slowly.

What I like about the MLok, seems simple and Magpul is behind it. Since Magpul is behind it and they make a lot of accessories I like, I can see it catching on quickly. I also like the simple looks of the slots. Much prettier than the "back of the click keymod slot."

I don't particularly like the T nuts of the MLok system, but I think my reservations regarding them will be dismissed once I get hands on experience with them.

All in all, I'm gonna start working OT as I can (baby due any day now, so not sure that's gonna fit in) and put that money aside for a new rail. I NEED to be happy with my new Geissele G2S that is scheduled to show up tomorrow on the brown truck.

[GOST]

Congratulations on the new baby, that's almost as cool as the G2S. I kid, boy or girl?

[KevinBLC]

I like quad rails. I don't think they are that much heavier. Seems like all the new rails are light, until you have to start adding rail pieces and other stuff.

[Bimmer425]

I voted mlok.

[tappedandtagged]

Congratulations on the new baby, that's almost as cool as the G2S. I kid, boy or girl?

Thanks!

Second girl. Any day now...

No boys. That'll be fine though.

[FortTom]

Thanks!

Second girl. Any day now...

No boys. That'll be fine though.

Will they be issued KeyMod or M-LOK?[:D]

FT

[DMViergever]

I voted KeyMod strictly on the basis that I have been using it and like it. Frankly M-lok pisses me off. Magpul has a huge, ridiculous following and make quality stuff but I have notoced one thing...their ffanboys are diehard and would never question the infinite wisdom of Magpul. This is why Mlok pisses me off. We FINALLY had a non proprietary system that was highly customizable and instead of going with it Magpul rallies the troops and basically gives the big "f you" to KeyMod.

[FortTom]

I voted KeyMod strictly on the basis that I have been using it and like it. Frankly M-lok pisses me off. Magpul has a huge, ridiculous following and make quality stuff but I have notoced one thing...their ffanboys are diehard and would never question the infinite wisdom of Magpul. This is why Mlok pisses me off. We FINALLY had a non proprietary system that was highly customizable and instead of going with it Magpul rallies the troops and basically gives the big "f you" to KeyMod.

Damn Devon,
Don't sugarcoat it, tell us how you really feel.....[:D]

P.S. I voted Keymod, because I didn't really know (I do now) what the question actually was, and I have 2 KeyMod rifles, and another Keymod hand guard that I won in members drawing. The others are 2 Centurion C4's and the Colt was sold.

FT

[MoxyDave]

If there were a poll option for "don't give a shit" I would select that option [:)]

[FortTom]

If there were a poll option for "don't give a shit" I would select that option [:)]

I'll keep that in mind, in case I ever post a poll. Oops, laughed so hard I think I blew snot on my self.....[:D]

[tappedandtagged]

I voted KeyMod strictly on the basis that I have been using it and like it. Frankly M-lok pisses me off. Magpul has a huge, ridiculous following and make quality stuff but I have notoced one thing...their ffanboys are diehard and would never question the infinite wisdom of Magpul. This is why Mlok pisses me off. We FINALLY had a non proprietary system that was highly customizable and instead of going with it Magpul rallies the troops and basically gives the big "f you" to KeyMod.

From reading their material on the MLok system I seemed to gather that the KeyMod system wasn't very compatible with polymer products (is Magpul) due to the undercut that must be made on the attachment device. So... I can understand why they want another system.

That being said... After doing a lot of reading and searching, I placed an order for a KeyMod rail about 2 hours ago. Its coming from a company about 4 hours away so I hope to have it before the weekend is over. Then its off to my Dad's shop to shave my FSB and install the new rail when I get off work Sunday morning (unless I have a new kid by then). My Dad has Burr King belt grinder that should finish the gas block nicely.

The main reason I went with the KeyMod was due to my needs on a rifle which are a rail and a light. Not much else (except optics). Noveske makes a very sleek KeyMod light mount that is EXACTLY what I want in a light mount. So with the one accessory already being made, I figured I'd go with the known versus the unknown.

[tappedandtagged]

If there were a poll option for "don't give a shit" I would select that option [:)]

Why not? And for what its worth, I tried to edit the poll (some forums allow that) but was unable to add the afformentioned MoxyDave option to the list.

[MoxyDave]

Haha the more you know ...

[GOST]

I believe Keymod and M-LOK will both survive. Both BCM and KAC we're not on the M-LOK list and both have a diehard following.

[tappedandtagged]

Update. Keymod rail is nicely living on my rifle now. I'm happy. If I ever get over my feelings of camera inadequacy, I'll post some pictures.

[UWone77]

I believe Keymod and M-LOK will both survive. Both BCM and KAC we're not on the M-LOK list and both have a diehard following.

I think there is room in the market for both.

Geissele is sending me a MK8 soon, so I will definitely see if it's actually better than keymod.

[GOST]

The thing I think that hurts keymod the most is that all the rails look alike.

[UWone77]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=y57WIow3Mws

[tappedandtagged]

That's blank on my iPad. Is it the vimeo video that magpul recently put out? I saw it on their Facebook page.

Edit. It worked on my phone. Same video, differnt video hosting. Apple products suck.

[plumber576]

I currently have a Noveske NSR 13" rail extremely pleased with. I think the keymod system is a great idea.

BUT, I just purchased one of the ALG EMR M-LOK 13" rails that's currently on introductory special pricing. I don't have a spare rifle to mount it on...yet...but look forward to comparing the systems.

In reality I imagine they'll both be just fine amd both better than permemantly mounted quad rails.

[GOST]

The NSR was a game changer, but I hate to say it but M-LOK fails so far to get me excited.

[plumber576]

The NSR was a game changer, but I hate to say it but M-LOK fails so far to get me excited.

That's how I originally felt about keymod until I held a rifle with the NSR and fell in love. I knew I wanted that rail so I jumped in the keymod game pretty early. The support is now coming around to make it a completely viable idea and I'm very pleased with my NSR.

With an idea giant like Magpul behind MLOK I'm sure it's really going to take off and get lots of support.

As an end user I get 2 different platforms with plenty of support and versatility and don't have to have ladders everywhere (which I really don't care for).

So am I excited? No. Am I happy? I'm sure I won't be disappointed with either.

[tappedandtagged]

I gotta say, ALG's rails are a great price. I'm still happy with my MI 15" KeyMod rail. SUPER light and the extended grip is nice. I'm a big guy and the rifle is so much more comfortable to shoot on moving targets with my support hand extended. Those pigs never knew what hit 'em.

[n4p226r]

im not the most qualified user to post about the systems but i voted keymod. i love my NSR. for me, the NSR is more about the feel in my hand. quad rails just are too bulky for me for the most part. a nice slim keymod works wonders.

[Stone]

Now that MLOK has been out for a while and accessories are much more available how do you guys feel about it now?

[Slippers]

Now that MLOK has been out for a while and accessories are much more available how do you guys feel about it now?

From my point of view, we still sell more KeyMod accessories by a significant amount, but M-Lok has picked up slightly. Some of our dealers only stock M-Lok, as well.

[BoilerUp]

Now that MLOK has been out for a while and accessories are much more available how do you guys feel about it now?

I'm coming around to the opinion that although I prefer the looks and feel of the M-LOK handguards, I like the KeyMod system better. If you have any intention or desire to change configurations in the field, then I suggest sticking with KeyMod. If you don't put anything on your handguard and/or pretty much never mess with your configuration outside of your shop, then M-LOk is a great way to go. But I like to tinker and experiment and move stuff around (and share accessories across weapons) and am finding the M-LOK systems is just too finicky. If you can't see the attachment from the back/inside, you won't know if you have it properly secured. For example, I had a Magpul M-LOK bipod mount pop off the other day while securing a Harris because the lugs hadn't turned 90 degrees on the inside of the rail even though the screws were tight. Completely my fault but it was hard to verify when I mounted the accessory. Also, the screws on the M-LOK accessories tend to protrude quite a bit more into the rail interior than the heads of the KeyMod attachments which can cause clearance and fitment problems (e.g., under or around the gas block). So, for a SHTF, take it to the field weapon, my preference is starting to lean back towards KeyMod, to the point that I'm starting to seriously consider selling off my M-LOK handguards and replacing them with KeyMod.

[DutyUse]

I'm coming around to the opinion that although I prefer the looks and feel of the M-LOK handguards, I like the KeyMod system better. If you have any intention or desire to change configurations in the field, then I suggest sticking with KeyMod. If you don't put anything on your handguard and/or pretty much never mess with your configuration outside of your shop, then M-LOk is a great way to go. But I like to tinker and experiment and move stuff around (and share accessories across weapons) and am finding the M-LOK systems is just too finicky. If you can't see the attachment from the back/inside, you won't know if you have it properly secured. For example, I had a Magpul M-LOK bipod mount pop off the other day while securing a Harris because the lugs hadn't turned 90 degrees on the inside of the rail even though the screws were tight. Completely my fault but it was hard to verify when I mounted the accessory. Also, the screws on the M-LOK accessories tend to protrude quite a bit more into the rail interior than the heads of the KeyMod attachments which can cause clearance and fitment problems (e.g., under or around the gas block). So, for a SHTF, take it to the field weapon, my preference is starting to lean back towards KeyMod, to the point that I'm starting to seriously consider selling off my M-LOK handguards and replacing them with KeyMod.


Kinetic Development may have just the answer for you and your MLOK accessories.

http://youtu.be/7hkGj4-KMAI

Start about 5:50 in

[cjd3]

Being relatively new, and coming in when MLOK was just introduced, I bought MLOK, and I think I will continue to do so. I think form over function, but both do function well.

[alamo5000]

Kinetic Development may have just the answer for you and your MLOK accessories.

http://youtu.be/7hkGj4-KMAI

Start about 5:50 in

That's awesome. Great idea in the video. I would like to see it and try it in person though first.

Other than that I have only used M lok. I have never used keymod but m lok still has the gas block issues so you have to make sure your accessories pair with the gas block you're using. It sucks to find out too late that you have to change out a key gun component to have your accessories work. It might not be everyone or everything, but it's enough. I actually have a slight amount of rail damage due to a t nut getting a semi rotation and then me tightening it up maybe too much. Again the t nut bumped the gas block and would not fully rotate. As I ran with it it was barely hanging on but secure enough for me not to notice it until later. Also if you want to use accessories that are directly under the gas block or near it there are several known issues with various reputable in-spec manufacturers.... the stuff is all made in spec, it's just the system has flaws.

Also with m-lok it is fiddly with little parts. First off you have to have tools to put stuff on or off but if you unscrew something too much or whatever and a t nut comes off and goes into the dirt... well good luck. And magpul wants like five bucks a t nut for replacements. Also it depends on the accessory. I have a VFG that is a pain in the ass to get the tool down in there to engage the screw head. You basically have to poke around in the dark with a long enough allen wrench.

I guess it depends on who you are and where you are at. If you are near civilization and/or do not configure or reconfigure your setup then M lok is fine. Once you get everything put on and assuming you're using the right rail and gas block it works fine.

At this point it works fine for me and my purposes but if I ever run across someone running keymod I will see if they will let me play with their set up. I would entertain the idea of changing at this point.

[Deadwing]

KeyMod? M-Lok? What's that? [BD]

Seriously though, i do still love my quad rails. Picatinny rails are incredibly robust and versatile, and quite relevant IMHO. The addressing system makes it so zero effort is needed to put accessories back exactly where you had them without counting KeyMod slots, etc. As an optic mounting solution, i would think the good old M1913 rail would be superior to either KeyMod or M-Lok. I realize we are pretty much stuck with M1913 for mounting optics on AR-15/M4 style weapons whether we like it or not (barring a pretty hefty redesign of the upper and adaptation of a new .mil standard). But for new, yet to be designed weapon systems, are either keyMod or M-Lok viable options for mounting ones primary optic? I'm not an engineer, but i imagine KeyMod and M-Lok mounts could be made rather easily for many of the optics in use today. But would either one be as robust or allow return to zero, etc. like M1913 rails do?

Anywho... Personally, for functionality and ease of use i prefer KeyMod at this point. Many of the KeyMod accessories i own have captured nuts and there isn't any fiddling with getting the depth of the nut just right in order to ensure your accessory will be secured to your rail properly. Aesthetically, M-Lok is way cleaner looking. And although it's not open source like KeyMod, the M-Lok licensing agreement with Magpul is free.

The reality is that KeyMod and M-Lok (and Picatinny rails for that matter) all have strengths and weaknesses. It's a matter of what works for you and what you're willing to live with. I think it's great to have options. I hope that both systems earn enough support and user loyalty so that they both will continue to be available to consumers. I realize that will involve a little more R&D for accessory manufacturers, and that some will invariably choose to favor one system over the other. But if done right, the market is big enough to support both and make everyone happy.

[Stone]

Thanks for the input guys, a lot of food for thought. I have been considering the Mega wedge lock for my current build. I really like the KDG attachments, they look solid. As far as rail panels go all I could find were magpuls type 1&2, and strikes industries V1& V2. Any other viable offerings?

[Joelski]

IMO, KeyMod and M-Lok have pretty much destroyed the static nature of modern classics like the MK18 CQBR. Once upon a time, you could slap a RIS II, or Centurion on it and call it a day, but with the newer, much lighter rails making use of KeyMod, or M-Lok, the more recent models will be more dynamic. Obviously brand constraints will remain, ensuring a tactical force socom jackoff 9000 mk 42 part won't show up on a warrior's killing instrument, but progress will rear it's head simply because of the weight relief issue.

[gatordev]

Kinetic Development may have just the answer for you and your MLOK accessories.

http://youtu.be/7hkGj4-KMAI

Start about 5:50 in

I have a Kinetic Development bipod mount coming (which unfortunately won't be here until after I go shoot tomorrow) to attach to a Hunter stock. It was more than a standard rail piece or Magpul mount, but the design seems to make more sense to me for the reasons that BoilerUp mentioned. Hopefully it will work as well it appears to. Now if I could just get DSG Arms to get their AICS bottom metal in stock and the damn gun will be complete.

[Jerry R]

I voted to Key-Mod only because I have a couple of BCM Gunfighter KMR rails. I really like the OD size and the weight. I wouldn't mind trying an M-Lok, but gonna be hard getting away from the KMR's.

[BoilerUp]

The Kinect QD mounts seem novel and interesting, especially the bipod mount. But I refuse to mount a pic rail section to an M-LOK or KeyMod handguard. If I wanted to mount pic rail sections, then I'd get one of the styles where you screw them directly on (like the Centurion CMR). The downside I see to the Kinect is the additional thickness, weight, and cost. I don't want to spend $50-$60 per accessory to work around the quirks of the interface. That's not a knock on Kinect, I admire their ingenuity and attempt to bring something to market that solves a problem.

Jerry, I suspect my next handguard purchase (or two) will be KMRs, so it's good to hear that vote of confidence. I was at RA a week or two ago comparing the BCM KMR-A side-by-side to another great M-LOK handguard with similar profile from a very well respected manufacturer. I haven't made a purchase yet, as they are both very nice handguards and it is difficult to chose, but after further reflection I can't bring myself to spend more money on a handguard that weighs more (the price on the KMR-As is very competitive). I do also like the Aero Precision enhanced handguard for the wider diameter which also feels great to my large hands and allows you tuck/shroud a suppressor.

[gatordev]

The Kinect QD mounts seem novel and interesting, especially the bipod mount. But I refuse to mount a pic rail section to an M-LOK or KeyMod handguard. If I wanted to mount pic rail sections, then I'd get one of the styles where you screw them directly on (like the Centurion CMR). The downside I see to the Kinect is the additional thickness, weight, and cost. I don't want to spend $50-$60 per accessory to work around the quirks of the interface. That's not a knock on Kinect, I admire their ingenuity and attempt to bring something to market that solves a problem.


Adding rail sections is exactly why I just end up sticking with quad rails. Yes, they're a little heavier, but on non-quad rails I've had in the past (pre-KM or M-LOK), I could never put a rail section (or accessory) exactly where I wanted it, and on the off chance I could, I still had this blister sticking out of the rail that made it less comfortable (for something like a handstop/AVG/RVG/etc). KM seems to mostly take care of placement, because there's so many damn holes, but I would still need to invest in a bunch of accessories. With quad rails, I can just recycle what I already have.

Since the Hunter stock only has M-LOK, and the KD bipod mount is still lower profile than a rail section and pic rail mount for a Harris, I decided to give the KD mount a try. I also grabbed a Magpul QD socket, so hopefully it's more secure than mentioned earlier.

[BoilerUp]

The M-LOK is plenty secure once installed correctly. One of the nice things about the Aero Precision handguards is the large inner diameter makes it easy to verify correct installation plus it gives it plenty of clearance. Here I have Magpul bipod and sling QD mounts installed:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-9f8Hdnz/0/XL/i-9f8Hdnz-XL.jpg

[SINNER]

Last night I formed an opinion on this debate. M-lok has a serious defect and I bet it will show itself more and more. I had a short rail attached to a rifle for a bipod mount I was removing when I noticed that as you loosen the mounting screws the t nuts rotate while still under a good amount of tension. It completely stripped the anodizing off the inside mounting surface of the rail. Judging from the amount of damage to the finish and the gouging of the aluminum that frequent removal of accessories will damage the rail to the point where it's out of spec.

You can actually see some damage to the rail in the photo above where it looks like the QD mount was moved back a slot.

[Brahmzy]

Wish MLOK wasn't so heavy compared to KeyMod. Always an ounce or two heavier on any given rail it seems.

[Jerry R]

I do also like the Aero Precision enhanced handguard for the wider diameter which also feels great to my large hands and allows you tuck/shroud a suppressor.

Understood. I really wish I had an opportunity to handle the Aero before the purchase(s), but there weren't any available locally. Didn't get to handle the KMR either, but bought based on specifications. As to large hands (LOL) I can use Thumb and Mr. Tallman to completely encircle the KMR - feels tiny in my paw, but the control during transition is so much better than the thicker (heavier) quads I have on other builds. I am becoming a fan boy.

[Aragorn]

My vote goes to keymod, if for no other reason than panels such as the BCM and Noveske's are thinner than options available for M-Lok.

M-Lok sure looks nicer though.

[Deadwing]

My vote goes to keymod, if for no other reason than panels such as the BCM and Noveske's are thinner than options available for M-Lok.

M-Lok sure looks nicer though.

The BCM keymod panels are amazing, especially on a KMR. I love the way they feel

I completely agree that the aesthetics of m-lok are superior. The Geissele Mk 8 is probably my favorite rail right now.

[DutyUse]

Speaking of the MK8 rail.. I plan on cloning that Gen 1 of yours that ROG keeps showing off :)

[Deadwing]

Speaking of the MK8 rail.. I plan on cloning that Gen 1 of yours that ROG keeps showing off :)

Oh yeah? I haven't been on facebook in a while.

[DutyUse]

Oh yeah? I haven't been on facebook in a while.

I think it's yours at least.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/15/07f3cc58f5e4a74ff4e8aa39535808c4.jpg

[Deadwing]

I think it's yours at least.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/15/07f3cc58f5e4a74ff4e8aa39535808c4.jpg

Guilty as charged lol. I sent that to Mike a long time ago. I just looked at the post and apparently it's quite a popular pic! It got shared on the WEVO FB page, along with another of pic the same gun. I'm very surprised at the number of likes and shares! I need to start watermarking my pics, apparently lol.

[WHSmithIV]

Both Keymod and M-Lok are cpnnecting systems that have been ported from (believe it or not) warehouse shelving into rifle handguards with M-Lok being the newer of the warehouse shelving systems. Since the picatinny rail isn't going anywhere anytime soon, it really doesn't seem to matter wether keymod or M-lok is used since rail sections can be attached anyway. I voted keymod simply because there are more keymod items available and the M-lok specific items are still up there in price while manufacturers recoup their investments in making them. I like my keymod rail and will likely get at least one more.

[DutyUse]

It's a sweet build. I've got a Gen 1 that's just been collecting dust.

The Gen 1 forged upper will probably be hardest part to find. And I'll probably do mine with a 9.5 mk8 and 10.3 barrel.

[Deadwing]

It's a sweet build. I've got a Gen 1 that's just been collecting dust.

The Gen 1 forged upper will probably be hardest part to find. And I'll probably do mine with a 9.5 mk8 and 10.3 barrel.

Thanks, man. I appreciate the compliment. Keep an eye on Rainier Arms. They get them periodically.

I really wish Noveske still made the 10.2" 300BLK barrel. It would've been PERFECT with the 9.5" Mk8. The 10.5" barrel leaves a bit more gap between the can and hand guard than i'd like, but it still looks pretty damn good. And it's a shooter. A 10.3" barrel with the 9.5" Mk8 will be a sick combo. Can't wait to see the finished product!

[DutyUse]

Well I'm going to have to put the 10.3" build on pause for a little bit. My wife told me very matter of factly tonight that our next gun WILL be a Colt AR15A4. She shot her dad's A2 recently and I think she's fallen in love lol

[Deadwing]

Well I'm going to have to put the 10.3" build on pause for a little bit. My wife told me very matter of factly tonight that our next gun WILL be a Colt AR15A4. She shot her dad's A2 recently and I think she's fallen in love lol

That's a nice rifle. Worth putting the 10.3" build on hold for, IMHO. I bought a BCM lower with an A2 stock and matched it with one of their 20" uppers. Added a carry handle rear sight and a KAC M5 RAS, and changed the trigger guard back to a milspec part and the grip to a MOE. Boom...poor man's Colt AR15A4. [BD]

[SINNER]

As an owner of 2 AR15A4's I can say with 100% certainty there is no way in hell those rifles are worth the 2k plus they are commanding now. I'd grab a FN15 and never look back if she likes that format rifle.

[DutyUse]

I agree your probably getting more rifle for your money from FNH, but it's gotta be a Colt. I think I have a link on a cheaper A4

[gatordev]

I agree your probably getting more rifle for your money from FNH, but it's gotta be a Colt. I think I have a link on a cheaper A4

Just remember, the issued A4 is a FN gun, not a Colt. Not sure if that helps the argument.

[n4p226r]

So a Facebook group I found seem to think keymod is junk and will fail pretty easily. What's your guys thought on their view? They seem to be pretty well liked from what I can tell

[VIPER 237]

I personally feel that if not for BCM's KMR the Keymod would have already died. I think it was Midwest Industries who said their MLOK rails outsell the Keymod models 3 to 1.

[voodoo_man]

If you guys havn't seen PWS patented a keymod/picatinny rail thing with this mk mod 2 series - "picmod"

http://primaryweapons.com/store/mk1-mod-2/

The rail is made by BCM on pws's patent.

Keymod isn't going anywhere

[Pyzik]

If you guys havn't seen PWS patented a keymod/picatinny rail thing with this mk mod 2 series - "picmod"

http://primaryweapons.com/store/mk1-mod-2/

The rail is made by BCM on pws's patent.

Keymod isn't going anywhere

Saw it at SHOT. Was quite interesting!

[VIPER 237]

Saw it at SHOT. Was quite interesting!

Same here, I was very impressed with the idea and PWS rifles as a whole. Finally they added ambi features!

[Farva]

I personally feel that if not for BCM's KMR the Keymod would have already died. I think it was Midwest Industries who said their MLOK rails outsell the Keymod models 3 to 1.

The same could be said for MLOK if Magpul wasn't making it into as big of a thing as it is. I think both systems will stick around, I also don't see one being better than the other. I think it's all personal preference and will become another Ford vs Chevy type argument.

I have both systems and think they are both great.

[Thompson]

If you guys havn't seen PWS patented a keymod/picatinny rail thing with this mk mod 2 series - "picmod"

http://primaryweapons.com/store/mk1-mod-2/

The rail is made by BCM on pws's patent.

Keymod isn't going anywhere
Yeah I saw that. Pretty neat.

Guess that means PicLok isn't fair behind.

[voodoo_man]

Yeah I saw that. Pretty neat.

Guess that means PicLok isn't fair behind.

I mean, its just a matter of time till someone creates keypiclok

[DutyUse]

I have both and wouldn't recommend one over another. Keymod is easier to install

[mtdawg169]

I have both and wouldn't recommend one over another. Keymod is easier to install
I'd agree with this. They both work well. Keymod is pretty darn easy and I've had good success with it for a couple of years now. Last year, I looked high and low for a 13" Geissele keymod rail. This was probably 6 months after they'd discontinued them. I manged to track down what might have been the last new one in the country. Glad I found it and still disappointed that Geissele doesn't make them any longer.

[patriot_man]

Today while installing a scout light mount I crushed and deformed 2 keyslots on my URX4.

I have to say I was not using much force at all (using supplied wrench) and I started to hear a crunch of aluminum. I took it off and found the back was deformed and the nut was damaged (not flat, nor circular in profile).

Edit: I just heard from KAC and apparently they had a bad batch of nuts. I'm currently in comms with them to resolve this.

[Slippers]

If you heard crushing, it usually means the recoil lug was sitting on top of the rail, instead of down in the keymod slot. This leaves a gap between the mount and the rail surface, so when you tighten the nuts, they deform and damage the rail.

Part of the strength of the keymod slot is provided by the accessory laying flush on top of it. As soon as you have a gap, the tapered shape of keymod nuts allows them to pull through the slot.

[mtdawg169]

Deleted.

[BoilerUp]

Today while installing a scout light mount I crushed and deformed 2 keyslots on my URX4.

I have to say I was not using much force at all (using supplied wrench) and I started to hear a crunch of aluminum. I took it off and found the back was deformed and the nut was damaged (not flat, nor circular in profile).

That sucks. Thanks for sharing, though, so others can learn from your experience and know to watch out for this situation when installing accessories. I thought the narrow slots would do a good job of ensuring the nut was in the correct location.

[patriot_man]

I just heard from KAC amd apparently they had a bad batch of nuts. [BD]

I'm currently in comms with them to resolve this.

[mtdawg169]

I just heard from KAC amd apparently they had a bad batch of nuts. [BD]

I'm currently in comms with them to resolve this.
Excellent news! Can you post up a picture of the nut by itself?

[patriot_man]

Excellent news! Can you post up a picture of the nut by itself?

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1650/24792226382_d12ac97052_c.jpg

[mtdawg169]

What in the world is going on there? The top ones are oblong compared to the pic rail nuts. Does the pic rail mount up correctly?

[Slippers]

Wow, that's really odd. At least it wasn't your fault!

[patriot_man]

What in the world is going on there? The top ones are oblong compared to the pic rail nuts. Does the pic rail mount up correctly?

I believe the nuts were originally flat but as a result of the improper heat treat they warped while I was tightening and caused the keymod slot backside to deform from uneven contact.

The pic section mounts fine. I've actually removed the staked screws to utilize the backer nuts on the scout light mount and it is fine!


Wow, that's really odd. At least it wasn't your fault!

Yup! :o

[urhero]

So a Facebook group I found seem to think keymod is junk and will fail pretty easily. What's your guys thought on their view? They seem to be pretty well liked from what I can tell
The problem with keymod is the way it's machined. There is less metal for support than there is with m-lok. For some this won't be an issue. If it's a rifle you take to the range and screw around with then probably no big deal. However, of it's a hard use gun that you're really putting to work and relying on, then why put yourself in a position where you're using a piece of equipment that has built in failure points.

Both are steps forward in terms of mounting accessories. The weight savings and size reduction over pic rail are great. Like I said though, if it's something other than a once in a while range gun you're probably better off going with m-lok simply because it's going to hold up better.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[BoilerUp]

The problem with keymod is the way it's machined. There is less metal for support than there is with m-lok. For some this won't be an issue. If it's a rifle you take to the range and screw around with then probably no big deal. However, of it's a hard use gun that you're really putting to work and relying on, then why put yourself in a position where you're using a piece of equipment that has built in failure points.

Both are steps forward in terms of mounting accessories. The weight savings and size reduction over pic rail are great. Like I said though, if it's something other than a once in a while range gun you're probably better off going with m-lok simply because it's going to hold up better.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I'm no metallurgist, but I don't think two hundredths of an inch of aluminum is going to make the difference between "hard use" and "range toy". M-LOK was designed with a larger minimum thickness because it was designed to work with plastic.

[mtdawg169]

I'm no metallurgist, but I don't think two hundredths of an inch of aluminum is going to make the difference between "hard use" and "range toy". M-LOK was designed with a larger minimum thickness because it was designed to work with plastic.
This. Mlok does have a higher pull out strength. But I'm not convinced that there's any practical difference. Mlok has surged for a few reasons. One, because it's new. And AR guys are suckers for new. Two, mlok has the power of Magpul marketing behind it. And no one does marketing as well as Magpul.

Let's face facts. Until mlok, Magpul accessories were solely for picatinny systems. And picatinny has been fading fast in the consumer market. If you're Magpul, that's a serious problem. Because demand for an entire line of accessories is shrinking rapidly. Problem #2? Keymod doesn't play well with plastic handguards. Solution? A new mounting method that works with your very popular handguard system.

Keymod was introduced with a single product, the NSR rail. Consumers and manufacturers who saw merit in the design, made it a reality. There was no one company pushing it.

I'm not saying that one is better than the other, because there are features in each that I like. And they each have their downsides. But people make too much of the "versus" argument.

[urhero]

M-lok provides flat engagement surfaces as opposed to the tapering that you get with keymod. It's that tapering that makes keymod more prone to slippage and attachment pullout

There's a reason that as manufacturers (Colt CA for instance) are doing their own testing they're choosing m-lok


In regards to the decision by Colt CA to go with M-lok for their MRR

"The decision to select M-Lok over its chief competitor, Keymod, was credited largely to M-Lok’s preference among Colt Canada’s LEO and military customers. However, additional performance metrics such as tear-off strength and ease of manufacture were also taken into account."

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[patriot_man]

I've actually heard the opposite outcome in testing by JSOC and that Keymod was found superior for strength and zero retention.

[patriot_man]

And hence was the reason for KAC implementing and pushing Keymod first with the M110K2/K3.

[gatordev]

And hence was the reason for KAC implementing and pushing Keymod first with the M110K2/K3.

Has there been any actual requirements for Keymod that has been made public, specifically with KAC? I think that's the problem with the argument of why what came first and who wants what. Sure, guys on the internet can say they've seen something in the wild, but Knight's (and others) don't generate a product (in this case a KM rail) that they sell to the Army without a requirements package. If it's been made public, it would be interesting to see/read.

Personally, I find it tough to sift through which of KAC's products are truly a result of some sort of contract and which ones are following comercial industry trends. They tend to make their commercial line-up a little muddy when they change accessories much faster than the military procurement process works.

[patriot_man]

Has there been any actual requirements for Keymod that has been made public, specifically with KAC? I think that's the problem with the argument of why what came first and who wants what. Sure, guys on the internet can say they've seen something in the wild, but Knight's (and others) don't generate a product (in this case a KM rail) that they sell to the Army without a requirements package. If it's been made public, it would be interesting to see/read.

Personally, I find it tough to sift through which of KAC's products are truly a result of some sort of contract and which ones are following comercial industry trends. They tend to make their commercial line-up a little muddy when they change accessories much faster than the military procurement process works.

All I know is that SFOD-D had or has K2's or K3's.

Not sure if they still do as I've heard complaints of Keymod failures which may be a result of improper heat treated nuts or improper installs

[gatordev]

All I know is that SFOD-D had or has K2's or K3's.

Not doubting you, but do you have a link or reference? I'm curious for my own education's sake.


Not sure if they still do as I've heard complaints of Keymod failures which may be a result of improper heat treated nuts or improper installs

Anecdotally, I've heard of KM failures as well, specifically about rails not maintaining structural integrity. But again, as always, it's tough to sift through the internet noise.

[patriot_man]

Not doubting you, but do you have a link or reference? I'm curious for my own education's sake.

I'll send you a PM


Anecdotally, I've heard of KM failures as well, specifically about rails not maintaining structural integrity. But again, as always, it's tough to sift through the internet noise.

Indeed.

[mtdawg169]

I haven't seen any KM failures that weren't user induced. But I haven't really looked for examples either.

[rob_s]

My take is this...

Whether better or worse is irrelevent, it's all about perception, marketing, hype, and who backs what. To that end, I think MLOK will win, at least in the commercial segment.

But, until the Big Army changes to one or the other, Picatinny will continue to be the #1 and Mlok and KM will be far distant 2nd and 3rd.

[Joelski]

What gets mounted past the end of a rail besides a vfg? Okay, a PEQ if you have tons of disposable income. Other than that?

Lines or circles. You pick the design.

[mtdawg169]

What gets mounted past the end of a rail besides a vfg? Okay, a PEQ if you have tons of disposable income. Other than that?

Lines or circles. You pick the design.
Not much. A vfg, light and a sling, maybe a tripod. And I'm not using the gun as a pile driver either. [emoji6]

My take is this...

Whether better or worse is irrelevent, it's all about perception, marketing, hype, and who backs what. To that end, I think MLOK will win, at least in the commercial segment.

But, until the Big Army changes to one or the other, Picatinny will continue to be the #1 and Mlok and KM will be far distant 2nd and 3rd.
This is pretty much where I'm at. Mlok is the new hotness in large part due to Magpul's effective marketing. They both work. I've got a couple of km rails. If one fails, I'll ditch it. But until then, I'll just stick with what I've got.

I waited almost three years to finally try km after the accessory market caught up. And as soon as I did, mlok came out. Would I have done it differently if they were both available? Maybe. Maybe not.

[patriot_man]

Not sure what's happening with the CSASS but I believe SIG entered their MCX-MR which has a Keymod handguard. Also HK's got their proprietary HKmod or whatever and not sure what KAC submitted, maybe a Keymod M110K2 or K3 or a K1 w/ URX 3.1?

[mustangfreek]

Rob where ya been hiding ... lol

Me, only had keymod and have a mlok for the next upper, for me it's a toss up really..

[Brahmzy]

Don't confuse KeyMods performance with BCMs magnesium KMR. Most of the failure rumors I've heard about (never experienced) have all been with the magnesium KMR. OR, a user improperly installing something.