PDA

View Full Version : Question for the Bloggers and Reviewers



Computalotapus
2 July 2014, 06:52
The one thing I like most about WEVO is that it is one stop shopping. The admins do a great job at posting new product, they don’t catch everything at release but they don’t miss much. The members fill in that gap when something might slip by the admins. Also we have several members that are bloggers and product reviewers. I have added a lot of those pages to my RRS reader and try to read as much as I can when I can. The other thing here at WEVO that helps is that our member base is very wide in variety. Along with this variety comes a variety of budgets for builds and other various products.

I read the blogs and the product reviews but it is hard to find material for those of us on a budget. I would love to own a TAD Hoodie but seriously $275 for a hoodie is just plain ridiculous. Or $400 for a pair of pants (pants pants.. not foul weather gear pants... just plain jane pants ) and $700 for a windbreaker…I mean come on if I combined those three items I could build a decent rifle with quality name brand products. Maybe I am just reading the wrong blogs, maybe there is a place I can go to find products that are in the realm of the everyday guy’s budget, but I have not found that place yet. If there is a place like that I would greatly appreciate anyone that can point it out. I am not talking about blow out sales on last year’s product to make room for this year’s trends. I actually postponed the purchasing of my rail just so I could pick up 2 pairs of 5.11 pants….that were on sale. I am a guy, and most guys don’t spend $90+ on a pair of pants.

The top of the line products are nice to read about but in all honestly 99.9% of them I will only read about and never purchase. I have a wife and two kids that come first, so my gear purchases are on a budget. It would be nice to read reviews on budget gear every now and then.

DMViergever
2 July 2014, 10:34
I know you follow me on IG but my reviews on my blog are pretty much all quality gear at affordable prices. I have to sell stuff to get new stuff, make zero money and a lot of stuff is loaner status. I also contribute for www.GunsandTactics.com and it is the same deal. Reviewing is a labor of love, is expensive snd is literally a second job.

UWone77
2 July 2014, 11:39
Comp,

I'm wondering what kind of gear you want to see reviews on that's reasonable priced. Do you have specific items in mind? You mentioned clothing, but do you also want to see guns an accessory reviews?

I guess it boils down to what do you think is reasonably priced?

Some guys that only wear Arcteryx LEAF may consider TAD Gear just average. Just depends on your perspective.

For instance, I won't use or buy any 5.11 gear. I don't feel the quality is like it used to be.

Computalotapus
2 July 2014, 13:49
I know you follow me on IG but my reviews on my blog are pretty much all quality gear at affordable prices. I have to sell stuff to get new stuff, make zero money and a lot of stuff is loaner status. I also contribute for www.GunsandTactics.com and it is the same deal. Reviewing is a labor of love, is expensive snd is literally a second job.

I follow you on IG and I read Guns and Tactics, Arms Collective, Black Sheep Warrior, Grey Fox, and a lot of other blogs. I understand it is expensive for the bloggers to swap gear in and out. And I guess I shouldn't say gear, I should say clothing and clothing accessories. What makes you as a blogger/reviewer pick a TAD ( $219-$475 ) or Arc'teryx ( $259-$549 ) softshell to review over something like Under Armor's Tactical Softshell ( $89-$119 )


Comp,

I'm wondering what kind of gear you want to see reviews on that's reasonable priced. Do you have specific items in mind? You mentioned clothing, but do you also want to see guns an accessory reviews?

I guess it boils down to what do you think is reasonably priced?

Some guys that only wear Arcteryx LEAF may consider TAD Gear just average. Just depends on your perspective.

For instance, I won't use or buy any 5.11 gear. I don't feel the quality is like it used to be.

Like I said to DMV I shouldn't say gear. I understand that gear is completely different than clothing. Guns and accessories are what they are but seriously $275 for hoodie. Heck a decent windbreaker from North Face is less than that. But you take something that has the same quality of North Face slap a velcro panel on it and call it a tactical windbreaker and the price jumps up $150. I live in Michigan and the winters are stupid cold here. I have a jacket and softshell that has zipper panels that let me get inside the jacket quickly or to my hip quickly. It is not made by a company that is known as belonging to the shooting community. Same quality jacket or softshell with identical features is almost $150 more.

Man I support the mess out of small business. I will gladly pay a premium for quality and customer service and I will gladly pay more for products made in the USA, but having my wallet treated like the high school tramp at prom because a company decides to say it's "tactical", that is straight up asinine.

For the current LEO's and DOD people that are putting their clothing through the harshes environments I get it there has to be a durability requirement that is met. But for your average joe that goes to shoot meets, or just wants to something comfortable to wear for the office job there has to be something. Currently the clothing market for the shooting community is geared for Tier 1 audiences. You are either the elite of the elite or you are a peon, if you are the later it seems you are being shunned because of it.

Lets talk about backpacks for a second, name any 3 day pack off the top of your head and I guarantee it is over $100. While I would love to use something from GGG or Mystery Ranch the price is stupid. I carry around a pack that is equivalent in size to a 3 day pack. I carry a 15" Lenovo T-530, leather bound notepad, a 80 piece screwdriver set, folder, wiring tools, wire testing tools, spare 8 port switch, misc length patch cables and other items. Roughly 25lbs of gear daily to and from multiple client locations constantly in and out of the pack. I have had this backpack for almost 4 years not a single problem, not a broken zipper, not a broken strap, velcro still sticks and holds internal compartments closed. It has a separate padded compartment that is easily accessible that would carry my full size pistol and spare mags in the organizer pocket inside that compartment when needed/wanted and its water proof. It's an $80 backpack. What makes GGG, Karrimor, or Mystery Ranch more expensive? As a consumer I don't want a cheaper product, I just want a less expensive product, there is a difference.

I am not poor but I am definitely not Bruce Wayne. The more I see the ridiculously over priced clothing on blogs the more it makes me want to hit the unsubscribe link.

FortTom
2 July 2014, 14:41
Comp, just log-off and pick up a copy of RECOIL magazine. Then you can read the reviews of a $1000 (yes that's not a typo) set of basically, issue BDU's. Then log back on to WEVO and the sticker shock won't be half as bad.... O.K., being kind of a Smart A$$, but just sayin' [:D] And hey, cool it! I think I married that High School tramp...[:)]

FT

rob_s
3 July 2014, 03:06
"Retired" blogger/reviewer/gun writer here...

I never really did soft-goods reviews. And I took the ioss out of many that did/do for a long time. Like you, I rarely saw the benefit to the extravagant cost, and the explanation I was usually given was "well, they're a small company so it costs more for them to make". So what? It would cost me thousands of do,Lars to bring back a mason jar of Iraqi desert sand, but it doesn't mean I can sell that jar of sand for a profit when I get back. That is, unless I get it in the hands of some reviewers, name it something cool-sounding, and manage to get it trendy (anyone else remember the pet rock craze?).

I do understand that some soft goods are made better (triple stitching, double layovers, better materials, etc.) or performs better in a smaller form-factor (cold-weather gear, for example) but those things do not necessarily play out for all users. Also, I personally don't like to be seen in public with anything that says "gun guy". I don't care about looking that way to the public or a bad guy, I just don't want to talk to other "gun guys" when I'm out and about with family and friends (or even when I'm alone, for that matter). So all that stuff about buying the cool kids "grey man" gear so that the other grey me. Know I'm in the club just ain't for me. Vertx pants, Saloman shoes, arc..whatever, TAD, etc. I don't even like wearing the BCM hats with the plain US flag after someone at a bar recognized it and wanted to talk guns.

I just bought a pack from REI. It got a top rating from some hiker review site on YouTube. I could buy a black one for $70 or a light green one for $47. I chose light green. Like you, I don't know why there aren't more reviews of accessible gear. F

For a long time I've tried to direct my writing towards the average dude. It's actually not very sustainable. Why? Because most people are compensating for something, and don't want to be told that it's pointless. Whether it's the guy that over-trains to win a SHTFantasy gunfight, or a match nobody else cares about, or buys an AR and glues the entire arfcom website to it, or dresses himself head-to-toe in the RECOIL magazine uniform, they don't want to hear that a very little bit of firearm proficiency is sufficient for a self-defense encounter, that a basic 6720 with Aimpoint PRO (or even iron sights, for that matter) shoots good enough for 99.9% of applications, and that an REI pack is every bit as functional for a family trip to an amusement park as the latest arc..whatever.

Honesty doesn't sell in a market and industry fueled by fantasy.

Computalotapus
3 July 2014, 05:39
Rob I can wrap my head around what you are saying. Maybe for softgoods I just need to look else where for reviews. Hiking and Backpacking softlines are the closest to anything in the shooting industry. When it comes to clothing, clothing accessories, and packs I am a hands on type of person and unfortunately the only place near me is Cabela's, I miss being around an REI. So I am stuck reading reviews to find out about products then ordering in what I think is my size.

Currently what happens when I see a review on soft goods is I look at the pictures of the product first, if I like the way it looks I immediately look for a price or a link to the manufacturers site to find a price. If it cost me an arm, leg and/or testicle I don't even bother reading the review and move to the next blog site. If the blog is a multiple offender it just gets moved out of the rotation of reading material. Maybe I am in the minority of expecting realistic pricing on realistic products.

Slippers
3 July 2014, 06:52
Review writers are generally looking to garner website hits for advertising, or if it's for print, it's something the magazine wants to use to generate more readership. Reviewing high end products will get the interest they want. For example, every car magazine is going to have at least a few articles on some crazy new sports cars that are out of reach for anyone that isn't a millionaire.

REI's house brand is pretty darn good. I own several of their day packs and other hiking clothing like shirts and pants. When you catch them on sale, there's quite a good bit of value. They also have a great return policy, allowing for a full year from date of purchase.

Despite Rob's dislike of Vertx, their pants are quite affordable with some of the discount codes floating around. The last pair I purchased was about $30 shipped for the Phantom LT model, and for the most part they just look like cargo pants, not really "tactical."

In rain and cold weather I own two North Face jackets, but they're both from the outlet and were purchased while on sale. One is over 10 years old, so despite it's $200 cost, that's some amazing durability considering all the mileage on it. It's been on dozens of trips into the back country and traveled with me to europe and asia multiple times.

For all the disdain people have for Arc'teryx due to the high prices, I also have one of their Atom LT hoodys which I use as an under layer beneath my North Face outer in the winter, and as a general use jacket in the fall and spring. It's extremely well made, warm, super light, and also packs down to nothing. I was fortunate to be given the jacket for free by a friend who is sponsored by Arc'teryx, but after using it for several months, I purchased one just like it at retail for my Father. So yes, I'd buy one again in a heartbeat if mine was lost or stolen.

As for their Leaf line...forget it. You can get just as good gear from so many other companies for half the price. If you're .mil or leo, Patagonia has a HUGE discount on last year's inventory. Depending on the item, 40%-60% off or more. Patagonia may not be as stylish or tacticool as Arc'teryx, but they make some amazing gear.

FortTom
12 July 2014, 20:06
....look at the pictures of the product first, if I like the way it looks I immediately look for a price or a link to the manufacturers site to find a price. If it cost me an arm, leg and/or testicle I don't even bother reading the review and move to the next blog site. If the blog is a multiple offender it just gets moved out of the rotation of reading material. Maybe I am in the minority of expecting realistic pricing on realistic products.
Comp, here's an item you might be interested in. How about $999.99 for 1 (one pair) Fugitive Shooting glasses, Model Zeiss/VIVX with a generous 3 sets of lenses, and distortion free.

Seriously, who buy's this stuff? I can get prescription shooting glasses that can double for regular glasses for less than half of that...

voodoo_man
13 July 2014, 07:08
I review what I buy, meaning what I personally spend my money on. There is stuff I can review, but it'll be a short review and will be on the lines of "this product blows don't waste your money" on some cheaper items and honestly, no one wants to read "negative" reviews about me using, abusing and then talking about how much a product sucks.

Perfect example being, I go through a lot of socks, on duty, off duty. Everyone does I imagine. I buy 5.11 for duty, Oakley brand, some REI brand's too. Am I going to do a review on "cool" socks? Maybe...I guess I can. It may be a waste of my time sadly, how many people are going to read a review about socks? LOL

As for the expensive clothing bit, I have arc'teryx gear, I shop a lot at REI and places like Tactical Distributors. I have to say, typical store brands suck, they do not do what I want them to do and they do not give me the performance I want out of that specific item. I have a pair of Kuhl pants (that i'll be reviewing soon) that have lasted my about 3-4 years and feel/look brand new and I've run/gun in them often enough to destroy any other pants. I have no issue paying that premium to get an item I do not have to replace in years and the quality is awesome.

rob_s
13 July 2014, 07:52
I would hardly call Kuhl a premium brand.

There is also a difference between living and working outside in Alaska and buying expensive gear because you need it to last, and buying 4xl Arc... To wear to the mall. I don't care what other people spend their money on, but intellectual dishonesty rubs me wrong.

Some compare the premium tactical hipster clothing to quality firearms, but that's just bullshit. A Colt would be more along the lines of carhart. Price, and quality, fully a result of function.

Many, MANY of the firearms blogs exist to either stoke their owners ego or fill their closets and safes with fancy junk. When I was still playing that game I can't tell you how many people emailed me asking how to get started so that they, too, could get free shit. I just ignored them. Even without it being my goal I wouldn't up with boxes of crap, some bought, some free, that I can hardly unload now because it's yesterday's new-hotness thereby making it today's old-busted. Surefire lights that were the cutting edge and $500+ two years ago that I can't sell for $200 today. That tells me a lot about what really drives the buying public, which is image and flash not function and use.

Which, again, is why people don't want to hear that the Colt 6720 is the best choice, they want to hear that they "need" a KAC. and there are dozens of blogs that are more than happy to tell them same. Mostly because the writers suffer from the same mental illness.

voodoo_man
13 July 2014, 10:39
...You do "need" a KAC, everyone does ;)

Also, I was comparing Kuhl to regular store brands like, Levi's, Wrangler, etc.

Hmac
13 July 2014, 11:40
For instance, I won't use or buy any 5.11 gear. I don't feel the quality is like it used to be.


What are your issues with 5.11? I realize it's sort of the Mall Ninja's clothing of choice, buy I don't care much about that...I've found it over the years to be easy to buy (Amazon), reasonably-priced (at least not outrageous), and of pretty good quality. I have a few pairs of their pants, a winter jacket (which I was issued years ago for the Bomb Squad), a couple of their bags that I've had for years and have held up well, and even their kilt, which my wife gave me as a joke a few years ago, complete with a D-ring sporran in my clan tartan and a ZT350 in place of a sgian-dubh. The kilt is pretty funny. I haven't had the occasion to wear it to a course yet. One has to be a little selective about that kind of thing.


/

gatordev
13 July 2014, 13:29
Which, again, is why people don't want to hear that the Colt 6720 is the best choice, they want to hear that they "need" a KAC. and there are dozens of blogs that are more than happy to tell them same. Mostly because the writers suffer from the same mental illness.

But Rob, I remember a post several years ago from you saying how good a great all-around rifle a SR-15 was for a complete rifle. Now you're changing your mind? Now I'm going to have to completely rethink my life choices...

On a more serious note, I know in the past you also were preaching about how great a choice the 6920 is/was. Personally I think both ideas have merit. It is interesting how just those two rifles easily do 90% of what most people want out of an AR.


What are your issues with 5.11? I realize it's sort of the Mall Ninja's clothing of choice, buy I don't care much about that...

I have one (1) set of 5.11 pants, and while they still function well enough, I've been very disappointed with how they have been shedding random pieces of thread. Much of the stitching has bits and pieces that come undone and leave Irish pennants everywhere.

I compare that to my several pairs of Vertx pants (which admittedly are a little different design) and I'm a huge fan of Vertx. I've worn them as just casual khaki pants out and about, as well as wearing them out in the So. CA desert where they aren't babied, and they've held up so much better than my 5.11s which are only worn for a couple of months during the year, one or two weekends a month.

Hmac
13 July 2014, 14:55
I have one (1) set of 5.11 pants, and while they still function well enough, I've been very disappointed with how they have been shedding random pieces of thread. Much of the stitching has bits and pieces that come undone and leave Irish pennants everywhere.

Not something I've noticed on the pairs that I have, even the ones that are several years old, although I really only wear them occasionally. My wife won't iron my pants so the 5.11s only get worn to events where no one notices or cares about wrinkles.

Computalotapus
13 July 2014, 17:54
I have 2 pair of 5.11 pants that get worn every Friday night at the dirt race track and whenever I am cleaning out the thick brush, and to the range. They have held up with no arguments from me. And i understand some people might have a need for some of the soft goods depending on environment. But seriously someone can honestly say they need a $275 hoodie/sweatshirt? Hell I will pay $70 for a UA sweatshirt every 5 years and not feel bad about it...but $275....my grandchildren's children should still be wearing it at that price.



For what I do and how much I do it for shooting I could grab khaki bdu pants from militarygear.com and be a ok with it. And I understand as a blogger your fan base might not want to hear that average gear is good for the average person. If you want to spend your money and review $275 hoodie, $500 pants and $900 windbreakers I am clearly not your target audience and reading your blogs are a waste of my time. I'm sure your fan base appreciates the review.

Sent from my Windows Phone 8.1

FortTom
13 July 2014, 19:04
Comp, I understand where you're coming from. And I agree with you, and I don't own any 1K blouse and pants sets from whoever. I don't need a lot of the stuff that I actually do own. I don't need as many AR's as I have. So why I won't waste money foolishly, like the $999 pair of shooting glasses, I could water down all my personal possessions as to just the absolute minimum, as to my needs, and get rid of a lot of things.

Your point doesn't actually address that, from what I can see, it only has to do with people posting blogs full of all that, for me, I would consider to be foolish crap, and you would like to see more blogs that review more common sense items, that the rest of us "regular" folks, who probably make up the other 99% of us are willing to pay.

But I see folks like myself, sitting in the Doc's office reading auto magazines featuring Lamborghini's, Bently's Porsche's etc. Or my personal favorite. Yacht magazine with multi-million dollar fully staffed boats. I doubt that anyone sitting there can afford one, but I enjoy seeing how the the luxury crowd lives.

In that same respect, I don't begrudge people because they can affort to wear a $700 Technical Climbing jacket, even if they are only climbing escalators at the mall.

Again, you did not, but I wouldn't accuse them of having mental health issues or]or other character fault just because they can afford to flush Benjamin's down the toilet, just to see if it works properly.

At some point, these bloggers and reviewers are going to have to come down to earth and review "stuff for average guys", or go out of business. Their main audience's aren't going to buy the crazy expensive stuff, and the folks who provide these items are going to figure out that they're pissing in the wind, and find ways to get to their "target" audience, those who can afford and actually buy said stuff.

When arc' tyrex and North Face became a fashion statement, I don't really recall, in the last several years that I've noticed, they're usually being worn by teen's being shuffled around by mom in her Mercedes SUV. If it has become a fashion statement in the gun world, it must be somewhere else. I don't see it around here. If I were currently LEO, Private Contractor, etc, I'd buy the very best quality that I could afford that met my personal needs.

I guess my bottom line is, if folks can afford something that cost 10x what I can, no biggie. When reading blogs written for folks that want that kind of stuff, I just read on to the next thing.

Me? I can afford fairly good clothing, or soft goods, I guess, but a lot of my "tactical" wear comes from the surplus store and is just the normal clothing issued to current active duty personnel.

And just like the "market" has to "correct" itself every so many years, so will the bloggers and reviewer's, if they want to survive and keep an audience.

FT[:D]

UWone77
13 July 2014, 19:11
What are your issues with 5.11? I realize it's sort of the Mall Ninja's clothing of choice, buy I don't care much about that...I've found it over the years to be easy to buy (Amazon), reasonably-priced (at least not outrageous), and of pretty good quality. I have a few pairs of their pants, a winter jacket (which I was issued years ago for the Bomb Squad), a couple of their bags that I've had for years and have held up well, and even their kilt, which my wife gave me as a joke a few years ago, complete with a D-ring sporran in my clan tartan and a ZT350 in place of a sgian-dubh. The kilt is pretty funny. I haven't had the occasion to wear it to a course yet. One has to be a little selective about that kind of thing.


/

I think the 5.11's I owned back in 2006-07 were made much better with better materials. They seemed to last longer and took longer fading. In fact, a couple of pairs from 7 years ago I still wear today. They are beat up, but still function for range use.

The last 3 or 4 pairs I've purchased in the last couple of years seem to use cheaper materials, cheaper stitching, and have frayed a lot faster. That coupled with the price increase from 39.99 to 49.99, I don't find them to be the deal they used to be. I get that of course labor, materials, cost of doing business can't stay the same forever, and price increases are inevitable, but the competition has caught up. If 5.11 was still one of the few games in town, I'd probably continue buying them, but like I said, there are a lot of others to choose from these days for "tactical" clothing.

Someone mentioned Vertx pants, which I've migrated to as well. The Vertx shirts have also lasted longer than my recent 5.11 polo's.

FortTom
13 July 2014, 19:28
UW, would that be the Phantom OP's pants with the ventilation panels? If so, how are those working out for you?

FT

Hmac
13 July 2014, 22:23
Someone mentioned Vertx pants, which I've migrated to as well. The Vertx shirts have also lasted longer than my recent 5.11 polo's.

I'll have to give Vertx a look next time I'm in need of some heavy duty clothing.

Optimus Prime
14 July 2014, 00:32
I haven't really done much soft gear reviews, mostly because it just doesn't excite me as much. Also the stuff I purchase for myself almost is never "tacticool" (my favorite soft shell lately is a $60 Columbia I picked up on sale and was excited to find a 'Tall'... plain black, no velcro.) All the HS/LD stuff I have was issued by the Army or my Department.

Maybe that's something I could do more, I've been slacking on content lately anyway...

I do agree that 5.11 is slacking a bit lately. I have a couple pairs of pants that I bought in 2006(?) that are still holding up great, and one pair that I got last winter and wore for some school stuff all spring and are about as faded an worn as the eight year old ones are. :-\ I also got a pair of their Skyweight boots to replace my 4 year old ones (comfy, holding up fine structurally, just heavy and tore up cosmetically) and the zipper pull broke when I was getting dressed for my shift, thankfully the old ones were still in my locker. I'm waiting for them to send a replacement pair and I'll give them a second chance, but it was a sad-face moment for sure.

FortTom
14 July 2014, 02:53
Funny, OP, you said your "Skyweight" boots are "HEAVY" and tore up... I guess they don't live up to their name, huh...[:D]

gatordev
14 July 2014, 13:38
UW, would that be the Phantom OP's pants with the ventilation panels? If so, how are those working out for you?

FT

FT,

I haven't tried the wedding tackle ventilators (I'm not really sure what problem that's trying to solve), but I have both these:

http://www.wearvertx.com/Phantom-LT-Mens-Tactical-Pants.aspx

and these:

http://www.wearvertx.com/Vertx-Original-Mens-Tactical-Pants.aspx

And have been very happy. I found the polyester ones to be a little swampy out in Anza-Barrago when it started to get pretty hot, but they are still lighter than the 98% cotton ones. It felt like the cotton ones breathed better (which would make sense), so I tended to wear those more. I had one pair that I always wore out there and between my battle belt and just normal wear on the rocks, the stitching has held strong. I do have some threads coming off of the belt loops, but it's not causing any structural issues, it's just from the Velcro inner belt grabbing the thread material as I slide it in and out of the loops.

I also appreciate that it doesn't look like I have 15 pockets everywhere, since everything is recessed. The one issue I do have is that the back pockets don't go into the pants, they're outside, so they don't retain things very well. I've never lost my wallet, but it's not the most secure setup.

FortTom
14 July 2014, 14:26
FT,

I haven't tried the wedding tackle ventilators ...........



GatorDev

[:D] I thought I was the only one to refer to "it" as wedding tackle....[:D]

Those prices seem right in line. I don't really worry about a pulled thread or three, unless it's my "formal wear tactical" I wouldn't mind trying a pair. My "dress tactical" somehow got a big oil stain on one leg. Don't have a clue how in the hell that happened, but I'm pretty sure there was beer involved, so I really do need a nice pair.

The "tackle coolers" do look pretty interesting. I wouldn't mind a pair or two of either style for the range. If my knees are up to it, and I'm going to be eating dirt and gravel, I just wear my ACU's from Land, Air and Sea surplus. and some matching knee and elbow pads.

Also thinking about wearing "cargo's" for Trap, to hold all my crap, instead of having it fall out of my vest and roll all over the place. Waiting to hear from Comp to see what he thinks of his, (If he has the ventilators).

Thanks,

FT

Optimus Prime
14 July 2014, 21:17
Funny, OP, you said your "Skyweight" boots are "HEAVY" and tore up... I guess they don't live up to their name, huh...[:D]

If that was towards me, should have specified, my old 5.11 boots are some 8" ATACs, the new ones were the Skyweights.

UWone77
14 July 2014, 21:25
I'll have to give Vertx a look next time I'm in need of some heavy duty clothing.

Hmac, I think you will be pleased with the quality. They also frequently have 20% off coupons good on your entire order. I recently used the 20% on their polos that were already 50% off. Made for a pretty great deal.

FT,

The pants gatordev linked are the ones I've had experience with. I haven't used the pants with the vent panels. However, I see that Milspec Monkey has a review up on them recently:

http://milspecmonkey.com/index.php/weargear/clothing/446-vertx-phantom-ops-powered-by-airflow-pants

Eric
15 July 2014, 05:31
I don't consider myself among the Gucci Gear crowd at all, but I do like the Vertex pants. They seem to fit well and they're construction is better than most. I don't mind paying a bit more on something that is higher quality and lasts longer. Since I'm thrifty, I've only purchased when I had a discount code. I do wish they would offer their so called tactical pant in a version without the articulated knee though.

DMViergever
15 July 2014, 05:58
I am pretty...un tactical I suppose. In 90 percent of my photography I am in a pair of boot cut Levi jeans and a T-shirt with a plate carrier over it. That is pretty well how I dress minus the P.C so it is what I usually wear lol. I do have some UA pants and a pair of Propper brand that were dirt cheap and have lasted well.

Hmac
15 July 2014, 07:08
I do have some UA pants and a pair of Propper brand that were dirt cheap and have lasted well.

I have some Propper pants sitting around from the days when the uniform for the TAC Team was woodland camo and US Cavalry was to go-to "tactical store". It's been good clothing. The button fly was kind of a nuisance IIRC, but I"m sure they zip these days.

FortTom
15 July 2014, 19:07
Hmac, I think you will be pleased with the quality. They also frequently have 20% off coupons good on your entire order. I recently used the 20% on their polos that were already 50% off. Made for a pretty great deal.

FT,

The pants gatordev linked are the ones I've had experience with. I haven't used the pants with the vent panels. However, I see that Milspec Monkey has a review up on them recently:

http://milspecmonkey.com/index.php/weargear/clothing/446-vertx-phantom-ops-powered-by-airflow-pants
UW,

Thanks for the link. I do believe I'll pass on the ventilated model. After some consideration, I think that they offer way to much of an entry point for ticks, ants, spiders, stinging nettles, and other stuff that a person in my area might find themselves in while scouting for fall hunting, or fishing in a stream, etc..:(

FT

rob_s
16 July 2014, 03:25
I was a big fan of Vertx when they first came out. Since then, I had one order with three pairs of pants, all marked the same size, none of which were, in fact, the same physical dimensions. Of those, the one pair that fit the best seemed to have lost their original "athletic" cut for more of the American cheeseburgerbutt cut.

I'm not opposed to activity-specific attire. If I were a bicyclist I'd have padded shorts, when I ride a motorcycle I tailor my clothing to that activity, were I a golfer I'm sure I would find benefit to their game -specific clothing. When I'm at the range I find that I end up needing pockets. And living in SE Florida, I usually need my clothes to be as breathable as possible. There's definitely a movement to look as in-tactical at the range and in classes as possible. Mostly this just seems to be latent youthful refusal to do what those that came before them did, as I see It mostly in the 25-to-35 age bracket. Old enough to have a real job with real pay and participate in the events, but young enough to still think giving the finger to anyone over 40 matters. I see whole threads where guys are tripping all over themselves to brag about their daily wear of flip-flops and cut-offs, and how they attend carbine classes with a spare mag shoved up their ass rather than use a chest rig, mostly so that they are not SEEN to be wearing a chest rig.

As in all things, there is a balance. If you're a fat suburban lawyer and you're walking around all day in Arc... And full Multicam at training classes and matches, you're probably doing it wrong. By the same token, if you're showing up at classes and matches without gear or activity-specific attire for the sole purpose of looking like you're not the fat lawyer in Multicam, you're also a big fail. It's your money, and your fun, and you have the right to do with them what you want.

But we still have the right to make fun of you too. Especially when the words coming out of your mouth don't jibe with reality.

tact
16 July 2014, 05:29
UW,

Thanks for the link. I do believe I'll pass on the ventilated model. After some consideration, I think that they offer way to much of an entry point for ticks, ants, spiders, stinging nettles, and other stuff that a person in my area might find themselves in while scouting for fall hunting, or fishing in a stream, etc..:(

FT

The cheaper Vertx pants(55$) are thicker and can handle the thick thorny brush quite well.

rob_s
16 July 2014, 06:22
But Rob, I remember a post several years ago from you saying how good a great all-around rifle a SR-15 was for a complete rifle. Now you're changing your mind? Now I'm going to have to completely rethink my life choices...

On a more serious note, I know in the past you also were preaching about how great a choice the 6920 is/was. Personally I think both ideas have merit. It is interesting how just those two rifles easily do 90% of what most people want out of an AR.

This is an interesting side-effect for anyone that chooses to put their thoughts and opinions into writing and submit them to the world wide web. Look at LEO Erick Gelhaus, deleting online posts and articles in the wake of an on-duty shooting.

In my case, the SR15 was, and is, still a good value. The question is, good value for who?

The guy who just wants to impress Frank down in accounting? Buy an Oly and drag it through the Crapco catalog, Frank won't know the difference.

The guy who is interested in having a "home defense" rifle that he'll shoot maybe once a year, or once a lifetime? there are much less expensive options that are up to that task.

The guy who is genuinely interested in learning to shoot and how to use an AR, for whatever reason? maybe. The thing is, how does that guy know what his wants, needs, and actual applications are when he's buying his first gun? I know a lot of guys that started out in competitive shooting that later got more "serious" and went all tactical, and I know guys that went the other way, starting "tactical" and are now strictly competitive. The KAC probably isn't the right choice, in any case, for the guy starting out. He *might* get lucky, but he's truthfully more likely to tailor his usage to his purchase than he is to admit he purchased poorly.

Then there's the niche (which is why we call these boutique guns) of the guy that started out small, or wrong, but did a bunch of shooting, in a bunch of venues, and ran across someone else with a KAC and got to shoot it. The stock was exactly what he wanted, the trigger is perfect, the handguard is what he was always looking for, he's all bought into the "ambo" BS, and the proprietary bolt, barrel, and gas tube don't bother him. For that guy, the KAC is an unbelievable value. You can't re-create that gun for the price.

gatordev
16 July 2014, 11:29
Rob, hopefully you understand I was just poking fun. Your post above has some valid points. While I don't always agree with you, what I appreciate in the things you've posted in the past is that you continue to evaluate your decision based on how YOU shoot your gun(s). Personally, that kind of extended evaluation by reviewers/bloggers/etc is valuable to me. I may not go in the same direction, but at least I can see issues and mindsets encountered.

FWIW, I ended up grabbing a SR-15 upper (I couldn't get a complete gun at the time since I was in CA) to see what all the hub bub was about. I found one barely used for a great price and since I already had another lower available, it was a deal. It's a really nice shooter, and I think it's pretty amazing what they were able to do with weight vs. performance (kind of like the Noveskes). But I can't say it was $2000 amazing, or whatever a complete gun costs. Fortunately, that wasn't my price of entry.

BREAK BREAK

I meant to mention earlier that one reason why I liked the Vertx was the athletic cut. As someone with a white guy ass and no hips, they fit me really well. If they've messed with the cut since then to be the "tacitcal Dockers," that's disappointing.

Slippers
16 July 2014, 13:38
Yes, the vertx cut definitely has a roomy seat these days. Can't blame the company for paying attention to their target market. My wife complains about how loose they hang on me.

tac40
25 July 2014, 10:40
Did you get a chance to sign up for promotive? Whether LEO/MIL, adventurer or medial type, membership is easy enough. They offer various known brands and selections to fill your tactical ninja needs or just some good bargins for outdoor gear. Everyone is always looking for a good bargin.

http://www.promotive.com/

Hmac
25 July 2014, 12:02
Yes, the vertx cut definitely has a roomy seat these days. Can't blame the company for paying attention to their target market. My wife complains about how loose they hang on me.

I did pick up a pair of the Vertx Phantom LT from Amazon the other day. I was concerned because the reviews reported wide variations and inaccuracies in sizing, but the marked size 32 fits me in the waist perfectly. The butt and legs, however, are baggy in the extreme. Construction and design seem good, although only time and use will tell that, but I give this pair a thumbs down for the clown-pants sizing.

gatordev
25 July 2014, 13:25
Man, that's disappointing to hear. Looks like I'll have to go looking for some other brand when the time comes.