Free-float, drop-in, full-railed handguard for carbine gas with FSB

[rob_s]

I'm looking for a full railed handguard that requires the removal of nothing more than the delta ring, delta ring springs, and shaving the sling mount and bayo lug. Basically, the easiest drop in that adds length to the handguard past the FSB. I'm aware of the Centurion that stops even with the from of the FSB, that's not what I'm looking for.

So far the only one I've seen is the Modwest Industries Gen 2, which looks about perfect but is a little wide at 2.3" when I'm used to a DD M4 that's about 1.9" wide.

Anything else out there?

[UWone77]

rob, I can't think of 1 rail that meets your criteria. I'd be curious to see if you find anything else other than the MI rail as I have a couple of FSB SBR uppers that I'm going to finish off this year.

[RiverRat]

Anything else out there?

Something like this? 12" Troy Charlie Rail: $250 at Rainier Arms (https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3320)
https://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/da2b994b2f2ad111f744a2cd8e3fe69c.jpg

[Aragorn]

Also the Troy MRF CX, though I have no idea on how wide it is.

https://troyind.com/products/mrf-12cx-blk

[UWone77]

I don't own any Troy Rails... so I guess that explains why I couldn't think of these. Nice job guys.

[rob_s]

I can't seem to find external dimensions on the Troys. Anyone have them or know where I can find them?

[GOST]

Best I could find is 2.25" external across the rails and 1.33" internal.

[Aragorn]

This is probably going to be minimally helpful and more ballpark than hard numbers, but looking at pics of the Troy Alpha Forends with rail sections attached and the above mentioned Forends, they look pretty close to identical. Going off that, the Troy Alphas are 1.75 and the sections .25 tall, that would put you at 2.25" width.

Again.... ballpark.

I handled a Troy Battle rail a couple years ago and distinctly remember it feeling fat....

Anyways, for concrete dimensions I'd email Troy. They've always gotten back to me on the same or next business day.

[GOST]

Rob have you seen this Centurion?

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XCENT0609FSP&name=Centurion+Arms+C4+12%22+Carbine-Length+A2+FSB+Rail+System&groupid=758&fprdct=1

It comes at 2.1" wide, I doubt anyone makes one as thin as a DD Omega.

[rob_s]

Rob have you seen this Centurion?

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XCENT0609FSP&name=Centurion+Arms+C4+12%22+Carbine-Length+A2+FSB+Rail+System&groupid=758&fprdct=1

It comes at 2.1" wide, I doubt anyone makes one as thin as a DD Omega.

I thought they made one but when I couldn't find it on their site I was starting to think I'd dreamed it. I guess maybe they stopped making them. Maybe not popular enough...

ETA...
And now I see that it's also sold out.

[gatordev]

It's showing in stock for me (at Aim).

[UWone77]

That's kind of embarrassing as I just realized I actually own this rail.

Looks like RA has it in stock

https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2975

[HeavyDuty]

It's showing in stock for me (at Aim).

Me too.

[rob_s]

Thanks guys. No idea why it showed out at first.

[GOST]

It showed out for me the first time also.

[rob_s]

Well, the super-good-deal on the Colt 6720s that had me asking this question passed, so I'm safe for now!

I also found them in-stock at BCM. Odd that so many companies have them in and out of stock but I couldn't find them on Centurion's website.

I think a $800 6720, that rail, and an Aimpoint PRO would give you just about everything you need. Add a Surefire X300 and an SOB sling on QDs and it wouldn't cost much at all and you'd have about everything you need without much fiddle-fart.

[Calengor]

Centurion just recently revamped their website, and not everything that used to be up is back up. I know they also just moved from CA to flyover country, so they were pretty busy for a while doing all of that.

[Ride4frnt]

Well, the super-good-deal on the Colt 6720s that had me asking this question passed, so I'm safe for now!

I also found them in-stock at BCM. Odd that so many companies have them in and out of stock but I couldn't find them on Centurion's website.

I think a $800 6720, that rail, and an Aimpoint PRO would give you just about everything you need. Add a Surefire X300 and an SOB sling on QDs and it wouldn't cost much at all and you'd have about everything you need without much fiddle-fart.

Well not sure if this is "the deal" but it's $800

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/colt-ar-15-5-56nato-16-carbine-pencil-barrel.html

[Ride4frnt]

Strike Industries mega fins keymod rail has a carbine length cutout and extends past the sight.

[gatordev]

Does anyone know of any of these CA 12" FSP rails in stock anywhere? Looks like all the usual places are out, along with a lot of other CA products. I'm debating grabbing one of these (if I can find one) or just grabbing a standard CA 12" and save myself an ounce of weight by removing the FSP.

Or just remove my RAS and put on a CA C4 7". Decisions, decisions.

[TehLlama]

Go with the 12.0 in whichever flavor, it's absolutely worth it. I'd price/weight out that decision with a DD Fixed Front Sight (cheapest best choice among those), then make that decision. I suspect a bit of the weight savings is gone -although the shaved FSP opens up options if you're running a low powered variable optic (run something like MBUS/Pro, Troy, KAC, or other BUIS)

[WHSmithIV]

Why not just take the FSB off rather than grinding stuff down and put a low profile gas block on the rifle that the rail slides over? You'd have to take the FSB off to put a free float rail on anyway.

[rob_s]

Why not just take the FSB off rather than grinding stuff down and put a low profile gas block on the rifle that the rail slides over? You'd have to take the FSB off to put a free float rail on anyway.

Actually, that was the pint of the thread. There are handguards that do not require removal of the FSB to install, but have a cutout for the FSB which allows for a longer handguard.

[gatordev]

Actually, that was the pint of the thread. There are handguards that do not require removal of the FSB to install, but have a cutout for the FSB which allows for a longer handguard.

Word.

I may have to sit this one out for another couple of weeks due to funds, but I'm still debating the CA 12" vs CA 12" FSP...if I could actually find a FSP in stock anywhere. Hopefully Monty isn't having any business issues after his last PCS/move.

[docsherm]

From what I heard Centurion Arms is no longer making those rails.

[UWone77]

From what I heard Centurion Arms is no longer making those rails.

That's what I've heard as well. You could probably find a used one on the secondary market at a reduced price. I have one FSB C4 Rail, and it's been pretty typical Centurion Arms quality. Perfect spot for a Surefire X300 at the 12 o'clock position.

[WHSmithIV]

Right, but they aren't free float hand guards. They are drop in hand guards and all of them that I know of use the delta ring. FAB Defense makes a nice one.

[UWone77]

Right, but they aren't free float hand guards. They are drop in hand guards and all of them that I know of use the delta ring. FAB Defense makes a nice one.

If you're talking about the Centurion Rails, they are free float.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

kool-aid and no flavor.... that is all...

[mustangfreek]

Someday id like to use a centurion rail on a build, they look tough, quality rails...

[rob_s]

Right, but they aren't free float hand guards. They are drop in hand guards and all of them that I know of use the delta ring. FAB Defense makes a nice one.


If you're talking about the Centurion Rails, they are free float.

Exactly the point I've been trying to get across...


That's what I've heard as well. You could probably find a used one on the secondary market at a reduced price. I have one FSB C4 Rail, and it's been pretty typical Centurion Arms quality. Perfect spot for a Surefire X300 at the 12 o'clock position.

That's what I was afraid of when I started this thread. I wonder if this one isn't the last of a breed. Maybe DD still makes an Omega too?
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=422

[gatordev]

That's what I was afraid of when I started this thread. I wonder if this one isn't the last of a breed. Maybe DD still makes an Omega too?
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=422

Looks like just the Omega X, which would still require a different barrel nut.

[GOST]

Never dealt with this place but they claim to have 1 Centurion Arms C4 FSP Rail System in-stock.

http://oneshottactical.com/products/fm-cac412fsp?variant=569432453

[UWone77]

Never dealt with this place but they claim to have 1 Centurion Arms C4 FSP Rail System in-stock.

http://oneshottactical.com/products/fm-cac412fsp?variant=569432453

Damn... 400 hundo. Don't think I've paid that much for a rail since the first DD's hit the market.

[SINNER]

I'd go with this before I dropped $400 on that Centurion one. Seems like a lot of mark up on that.

http://www.primaryarms.com/Daniel_Defense_M4A1_FSP_Rail_Interface_System_RIS_ p/01-004-08030-006.htm

[UWone77]

I think he didn't want to remove the FSB.

For gatordev, I'd just go with the 7" C4, unless you need the real estate. If that's the case like I mentioned before, I'd go look for a used C4 cutout... you know there are out there will little to no use on them.

[SINNER]

Gotcha. I didn't realize he didn't want to remove it at all. I though he was just wanting to retain it.

[docsherm]

I have had several of these type of rails; DD Lite, Omega, RIS II, Centurion Arms, and the Troy Charlie. To be honest I liked the Troy the best. It locks in solid and takes no mods at all. Great rail.

[WHSmithIV]

You might want to take a look at this one from Yankee Hill Machine.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/7-YHM5000

Keep in mind that if any free floating handguard needs a different barrel nut you'll definitely have to remove the A2 front sight to install it. Also, you won't be getting that delta ring assembly or endcap off without cutting them off if you don't remove the sight. The sight isn't hard to remove. There are two pins to drive out usually is all.

Also, Fortis has a REV rail with the cutout. Don't know what barrel nut it uses though. I'll check in Gunstruction.

update: I checked. With the Fortis rail you don't need to change the barrel nut. It uses a standard barrel nut.
Here's a link to it: http://fortismfg.com/ar15-fortis-REV-free-float-rail-system-mid-cutout
Not sure if you'd have to take the FSB off.

The FAB Defense NFR-EX is drop in. Here's a link to it:
http://www.themakogroup.com/rails-rail-mounts-and-rail-systems/fab-defense-nfr-ex.html

[rob_s]

Damn... 400 hundo. Don't think I've paid that much for a rail since the first DD's hit the market.

I think this is probably the issue, cost:benefits. Or, cost:cost, as it relates to people being more willing to simply put in the work of chopping/removing parts than paying the higher price for the parts.

[SINNER]

When those rails were around they were not that much. I remember them being $65-75 less than the DD ones.

[Ride4frnt]

Aim surplus had DD carbine cutouts for $129 last week. I thought about it but have no use for one.

[gatordev]

I'd go with this before I dropped $400 on that Centurion one. Seems like a lot of mark up on that.

http://www.primaryarms.com/Daniel_Defense_M4A1_FSP_Rail_Interface_System_RIS_ p/01-004-08030-006.htm

That's a great price for the DD RIS II in this market. The other ones I've seen are $400. I think that guy that's charging $400 for the CA one is just trying to cash in on the scarcity as well as the RIS II look. I'm tempted to grab that RIS II from PA just because it might be worth it...then again, I'd have to pay for the gun-smithing. I don't rally have the tools to remove and reinstall a FSP.


I think he didn't want to remove the FSB.

For gatordev, I'd just go with the 7" C4, unless you need the real estate. If that's the case like I mentioned before, I'd go look for a used C4 cutout... you know there are out there will little to no use on them.

No removal was the initial plan, but see below. I'm tempted to just grab a C4 7" to have it on hand for some time in the future when they go away.


You might want to take a look at this one from Yankee Hill Machine.


Keep in mind that if any free floating handguard needs a different barrel nut you'll definitely have to remove the A2 front sight to install it. Also, you won't be getting that delta ring assembly or endcap off without cutting them off if you don't remove the sight. The sight isn't hard to remove. There are two pins to drive out usually is all.


Rob's original premise was a drop in, FF, quad picatinny rail. That's what I was trying to follow up on, and there's not a lot of options. Also, as mentioned before, there are other FF rails out there that don't require you to remove stuff (hence drop in). I have an Omega that works like this, I'm just not a fan of how it feels, even though it's a super-solid rail.


I think this is probably the issue, cost:benefits. Or, cost:cost, as it relates to people being more willing to simply put in the work of chopping/removing parts than paying the higher price for the parts.

Bingo. $400 quickly exceeds the "cost" of not gun-smithing. I'd rather just cut something at that point.


When those rails were around they were not that much. I remember them being $65-75 less than the DD ones.

RIS II FDEs are unicorns now and demand a premium. You can still find black RIS IIs and RIS II FSPs, but they're marked up. For the time being, DD has said they aren't selling RIS II rails by themselves due to .gov contracts needing to be met.


Aim surplus had DD carbine cutouts for $129 last week. I thought about it but have no use for one.

Keep in mind that there are DD Lite rails that look very similar to RIS II rails, so that may have been what was at Aim.

[gatordev]

Of course, there's one more option that only requires me to grab a new gas block and cut an existing barrel down (total about $100)...

I happen to have a DD MK18 RIS II stashed and I could just change my M4 Block 2 into a CQBR Block 2 and then change my 6921 into a M4 Block 2 with the rail I already have. I gain a little weight, but then I'd have two sexy beasts. I just hate to give up my plain jane M4, as I never really had one before, but I guess function over form usually wins the day with me.

Decisions...

[UWone77]

Of course, there's one more option that only requires me to grab a new gas block and cut an existing barrel down (total about $100)...

I happen to have a DD MK18 RIS II stashed and I could just change my M4 Block 2 into a CQBR Block 2 and then change my 6921 into a M4 Block 2 with the rail I already have. I gain a little weight, but then I'd have two sexy beasts. I just hate to give up my plain jane M4, as I never really had one before, but I guess function over form usually wins the day with me.

Decisions...

First world problems my friend!

[Deadwing]

That's a great price for the DD RIS II in this market. The other ones I've seen are $400. I think that guy that's charging $400 for the CA one is just trying to cash in on the scarcity as well as the RIS II look. I'm tempted to grab that RIS II from PA just because it might be worth it...then again, I'd have to pay for the gun-smithing. I don't rally have the tools to remove and reinstall a FSP.

RIS II FDEs are unicorns now and demand a premium. You can still find black RIS IIs and RIS II FSPs, but they're marked up. For the time being, DD has said they aren't selling RIS II rails by themselves due to .gov contracts needing to be met.

I picked up one of the black RIS II FSPs from Primary Arms just last week. It arrived yesterday, in fact. At that price, and with them becoming more difficult to find, i couldn't pass it up (even though i really wanted one in FDE). Now i've either got to fabricate a bench block to remove the FSB taper pins, or buy one. And reassembling the FSB to to barrel, i doubt any bench block will offer much support with the rail in the way. This ought to be an interesting project. [BD]