Looking for help choosing a variable optic.

[Deckard]

I plan on taking a general marksmanship class pretty soon and wanted to buy a variable optic for my AR. I'm going to use it for other things too, possibly carbine classes and varmint hunting. I'm going to be shooting up to 500 yards but also wanted to be able to use the optic as a close range sight too (I know RDS's are the best when it comes to close range but I'd like to have something that is flexible). So far I've been mulling over Leupold's VX-R. Does anyone have experience with one? Should I be considering another optic in that price range that might possibly be superior? I'm new to variable optics, is there certain things I should be looking for?

[GOST]

Do you have a price point your wanting to stay at?

[Gaspipeshooter]

Do you have a price point your wanting to stay at?

The scope he is considering is priced at $499.99 on Optics Planet.

[FortTom]

I plan on taking a general marksmanship class pretty soon and wanted to buy a variable optic for my AR. I'm going to use it for other things too, possibly carbine classes and varmint hunting. I'm going to be shooting up to 500 yards but also wanted to be able to use the optic as a close range sight too (I know RDS's are the best when it comes to close range but I'd like to have something that is flexible). So far I've been mulling over Leupold's VX-R. Does anyone have experience with one? Should I be considering another optic in that price range that might possibly be superior? I'm new to variable optics, is there certain things I should be looking for?
Deckard,
At $499 you could probably find several scopes with similar features. I've got something similar on my LMT, a Weaver 3X9 with a lighted dot in the center of the cross hairs. If the Leupold you're looking at has al the features you want you probably won't go wrong with that. Comparing several different scopes with the same features and general price range isn't probably going to tell you much, especially looking through it in the store. Make sure you can send it back, if you order it. Mount it, and take it outside and look off to 400-500 yards. Look around the perimeter of the glass to make sure the edges aren't distorted or foggy looking. If everything feels solid, e.g. adjustment turret knobs, you're probably going to get as good as it gets with a Nikon. Again, I'm assuming you want to be at around $500 bucks, considering the scope you're looking at. Unless you want to spend $$$$ and get a "sniper" quality scope, if you like the Nikon, anything like it, is probably going to be subjective, in comparison. Unless your eyes are a hell of a lot better than mine, you'll probably want at least a 3X7 if not a 3 or 4X9 for shooting at 500 yards.

Lastly, and I see this more often than you might think, I'll see someone with a $1500 -$2000 scope, who uses it to "plink" with at 100 or 200 yards, or whatever their local range has to offer. Mighty dumb in my opinion, but if they've got the money, so be it. My guess is you'll only be "sniping" coyotes, and a decent quality scope like the Nikon or something comparable in the same price range, will suit your needs just fine.

Just something to consider. Naming specific scopes offering the exact same feature set and price range would, again, be subjective, but it won't hurt to look at several similar scopes in the store, to see if something pulls you towards one or the other.

Otherwise, if 10 people reply, using the criteria you set forth, you'll probably just get 10 different answers, according to what each individual has and likes on theirs. If you open up a bit and say "I've got $500 to $1500 to spend" then folks will have more latitude, and features for you to consider.

Hope this helps,

FT[:D]

[Deckard]

Thanks for the responses,

I guess my price range is up to ~$400-$900. I'd like the optic to be 1x on the lowest magnification and have an illuminated dot.

FortTom,

Thanks for the info. I guess didn't take into account everyone's eyes work differently and that I would be better off looking through them before making my decision. I am thinking about just saving up a bit more and getting a USO SR-6 or a Vortex Razor HD 1-6x. Problem here is a lot of the stores don't carry all the options I'm looking at.

[GOST]

You may want to check these out also.

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx

[Jerry R]

So far I've been mulling over Leupold's VX-R. Does anyone have experience with one?

I have a Mark AR MOD 1 1.5x4 with the "Fire Dot" on the Colt. Seems to work very well. A finger poke on the odd-side turret (the Leupold "L" logo) turns on the red dot. I have not shot it past 100 so far, but I like the setup. Similar technology, but I believe the lower powered VX-R is called the VX-R HOG and is 1.25x4. A slightly different reticule, but still has the fire-dot.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i106/pdogkilr/Firearms/AR-15/Colt%20LE-6920/LE-6920%20Sized%201024/First%20Pass%20-%20Lighting%20Issues/IMG_2214ElementsEditFramedSize1024_zps76f0baa6.jpg ~original

[FortTom]

jerry, I was thinking he said he wants to be able to shoot at 500 yards. I know some folks can do this easily with a 1X4 power, but I'm thinking more folks would be better suited with a 1X6 at that range, depending on their sight and experience. From there he'd probably have to go with a 2.5 X 7, or even a 3 X 9. I guess it also has to do with how accurate he wants to be. I can hit minute of man targets at 500 yards with a RDS, but they'll be all over the target, given my eyesight and age. If he wants clean kill shots, right behind the shoulder on coyotes, etc and put 5 shots in 6 in. group or better, then the more versatile a variable scope would be. I don't think he really specified what he wanted to accomplish at 500 yards. That info could narrow the field right away.

FT

[rob_s]

The question is, do you *think* you're going to shoot at 500 yards or do you *know* you're going to shoot at 500 yards? What's your experience at that distance up to now? I ask because a lot of people buy a lot of gear for things they're never actually going to do. I recall buying a "sniper" rifle when I was in college thinking I was going to shoot out to 200 yards when all my shooting up to that point was 50 and in. I ran all the way out there, plopped down my target, ran all the way back in, looked through the scope, and ran all the way back out again to bring that sucker in. I probably didn't shoot past 100 yards for another decade.

Do you know what course you'll be taking? Do they have an outline that gives the distances you'll be shooting? I've taken Randy Cain's carbine course a couple of times and we shot out to 200, and while I wasn't one of them I saw several shooter turn in very tight groups with 4 MOA Aimpoints (something I've read on the internet is unpossible). I'm talking about <4-5" groups with cheap ammo, which was about at the limit of what the barrel/ammo combination is up to.

I used to have a VX-R 1.x-4 (I forget what the "x" is, it's not a true 1x). I shot it out to 300 yards and all the way in to <5 yards in matches and classes, and I shot one hog with it at <20 yards.

It definitely can be run quickly up close, but I was faster with my offset irons, perhaps because of familiarity. I was also faster up close with my ACOG TA33, but that also is something I'm more familiar with.

[GOST]

I think the VX-R is closer to 1.5 than 1.

[FortTom]

One last thing Deckard. You seem to know your scopes, so I'm assuming you've been shooting for a while. However, and I don't mean to sound condescending, but are you familiar with targets out to 500 yards? They get really small even with a 6X scope. If not, is it possible for you to get a couple of buddies, hunting rifles and scopes will do, and a variable scope, maybe a common 3 X 9, and look at your targets at 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9 power and see what type of targets you'll be shooting, look like at that range. Then when you go to the store, you won't need to take the scope outside and guess ranges.

Obviously if you're already skilled at these ranges, the above step won't be required, but if you're not, it might save you a lot of time, you'll know what the max power range you'll need is, and you can focus on scopes in that power range. Am I making sense here?

Now day's the only thing I'd try to shoot for tight groups at 500 yards would be a .300 Weatherby Mag.[:D]

I hope I'm not screwing you up with too much info, especially if your already familiar with all of the above. I just thought that if you don't really have experience at that range, it might give you a better starting point to consider, and save you some time and money.

Good luck,

FT

[UWone77]

Here's one of my favorite Lower-Priced 1-4x24 optics.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l27uTiDjre0&feature=player_detailpage

[Ride4frnt]

Here's one of my favorite Lower-Priced 1-4x24 optics.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l27uTiDjre0&feature=player_detailpage

You've piqued my interest. I still need a permanent optic for my 18" gun... And to decide on an optic for my blackout.

[Deckard]

Sorry for all the confusion.

Now looking at what Rob just asked the furthest I'll be shooting regularly is about 300 yards, I just wanted to have the ability to shoot up to that range quickly and easily.
I don't plan on shooting anything alive from that range just to be able to hit a steel target.
I don't need tight groups out to 500 yards just the ability to hit the target.
I understand the 1-4x/1-6x optics are okay at mid and close range targets but it won't beat an RDS at close range or a long range optic at distance shooting.
The course will involve shooting from 100 yards up to 500 yards but I need to find out a bit more.
Tom, it sounds like I would be better off with a 1-6x. You're not being condescending at all. I never shot out that far, 300 yards is the furthest I've seen. Again I'm not planning on hunting anything out that far. I should have clarified that in the opening post.

I really appreciate all the replys. Thanks.

[voodoo_man]

Did a review on the vx-r patrol 1.25-4x optic:

http://vdmsr.blogspot.com/2013/10/leupold-vx-r-patrol-125-4x20-firedot-on.html

It is a good optic for what it is. I would suggest reading the review.

[rob_s]

After skimming VDM's review above, something else I don't like about this optic (and many others like it) is the exposed turrets. I'm not sure what makes exposed turrets on a 4x optic "tactical" but Leupold, especially but among others, seems to think that this is what makes the term apply. I hated them on mine. Yes, you zero the optic, then set the knobs to zero, etc. but that's just a pain in the butt. The turrets should be capped. you can get an optic that's pretty close to this from Leupold without the "tactical" moniker, but then you also get a 1.5x instead of a 1.25x, if that matters.

Based on my time with the VX-R Patrol as well as other optics owned by other shooters, if I venture down the 1.x-Y path again I'll pony up for the VX-6 Multigun. I think it has all the things I liked about the Patrol and fixed some of the issues (like the exposed turrets).

[voodoo_man]

After skimming VDM's review above, something else I don't like about this optic (and many others like it) is the exposed turrets. I'm not sure what makes exposed turrets on a 4x optic "tactical" but Leupold, especially but among others, seems to think that this is what makes the term apply. I hated them on mine. Yes, you zero the optic, then set the knobs to zero, etc. but that's just a pain in the butt. The turrets should be capped. you can get an optic that's pretty close to this from Leupold without the "tactical" moniker, but then you also get a 1.5x instead of a 1.25x, if that matters.

Based on my time with the VX-R Patrol as well as other optics owned by other shooters, if I venture down the 1.x-Y path again I'll pony up for the VX-6 Multigun. I think it has all the things I liked about the Patrol and fixed some of the issues (like the exposed turrets).

The VX-6 will probably be my next optic purchase when I get rid of the 1-8x USO I have.

[Deckard]

The VX-6 will probably be my next optic purchase when I get rid of the 1-8x USO I have.

What's your thoughts on the USO 1-8x? Too much magnification for your AO?

[voodoo_man]

What's your thoughts on the USO 1-8x? Too much magnification for your AO?

Way too much.

Even if I put it on a 762 gun it'll be too much for what I use it for.

It is a great optic though, very clear, very easy to use, magnification is amazing. Definitely understand why it costs as much as it does.

[gatordev]

Sorry for all the confusion.

Now looking at what Rob just asked the furthest I'll be shooting regularly is about 300 yards, I just wanted to have the ability to shoot up to that range quickly and easily.
I don't plan on shooting anything alive from that range just to be able to hit a steel target.
I don't need tight groups out to 500 yards just the ability to hit the target.
I understand the 1-4x/1-6x optics are okay at mid and close range targets but it won't beat an RDS at close range or a long range optic at distance shooting.
The course will involve shooting from 100 yards up to 500 yards but I need to find out a bit more.
Tom, it sounds like I would be better off with a 1-6x. You're not being condescending at all. I never shot out that far, 300 yards is the furthest I've seen. Again I'm not planning on hunting anything out that far. I should have clarified that in the opening post.

I really appreciate all the replys. Thanks.

Another thing to consider (and may be answered when you find out more info) is how you'll be shooting at those distances. If I'm shooting something other than prone, I'm usually backing the optic off to 4-6x for steel targets in the 3-400 yard range. Especially if I'm shooting off a barricade. Anything more and it's just too wobbly and you start chasing the reticule. I find my ACOG to be on the edge of useable for 200 yards if I'm shooting unsupported.

A class is a great place to see what you can do with surprisingly minimal magnification (for a given range). Folks want to buy a 25x+ scope to hit something at 1000 yards, but it really isn't necessary. My NF 3.5-15 (or whatever it is) worked just fine and I could see impacts (with .308, anyway).


After skimming VDM's review above, something else I don't like about this optic (and many others like it) is the exposed turrets. I'm not sure what makes exposed turrets on a 4x optic "tactical" but Leupold, especially but among others, seems to think that this is what makes the term apply. I hated them on mine. Yes, you zero the optic, then set the knobs to zero, etc. but that's just a pain in the butt. The turrets should be capped.

I'd argue it depends on the use. For the range plinker, yeah, you're probably right. For someone using a 1-4 scope in a truly tactical environment (and I mean in bad guy land, not in dress up weekend competitions), it can be a help because you can adjust for a given range.

Of course, how many people are buying them for this purpose? I'd guess a very small percentage of the total sales.

[rob_s]

I'd argue it depends on the use. For the range plinker, yeah, you're probably right. For someone using a 1-4 scope in a truly tactical environment (and I mean in bad guy land, not in dress up weekend competitions), it can be a help because you can adjust for a given range.

Of course, how many people are buying them for this purpose? I'd guess a very small percentage of the total sales.

and I strongly doubt that anyone that's fiddling knobs for ninja purposes is doing so with a 4x, and frankly even a 6x, optic.

[gatordev]

and I strongly doubt that anyone that's fiddling knobs for ninja purposes is doing so with a 4x, and frankly even a 6x, optic.

Maybe. But then you kind of wonder why they even have them, and they're obviously out there in the wild.

One of the gunners on my third deployment was running a Short Dot on his M107. Most guys would run an Eotech or an Aimpoint, but he apparently liked the Short Dot. I'm not sure if he played with the turrets, but it would have been very easy for him to range and make an adjustment if he needed to.

[Deckard]

Thanks for bringing that up gator,

All of the shooting will be done unsupported. Prone, sitting, and standing with a time limit. You also have to start in a standing position and transition to a sitting or prone position and engage multiple targets. This is all done at different distances (100-400yrds).

[Computalotapus]

Thanks for bringing that up gator,

All of the shooting will be done unsupported. Prone, sitting, and standing with a time limit. You also have to start in a standing position and transition to a sitting or prone position and engage multiple targets. This is all done at different distances.

This sounds fun are the distances known distances?

[Deckard]

After skimming VDM's review above, something else I don't like about this optic (and many others like it) is the exposed turrets. I'm not sure what makes exposed turrets on a 4x optic "tactical" but Leupold, especially but among others, seems to think that this is what makes the term apply. I hated them on mine. Yes, you zero the optic, then set the knobs to zero, etc. but that's just a pain in the butt. The turrets should be capped. you can get an optic that's pretty close to this from Leupold without the "tactical" moniker, but then you also get a 1.5x instead of a 1.25x, if that matters.

Based on my time with the VX-R Patrol as well as other optics owned by other shooters, if I venture down the 1.x-Y path again I'll pony up for the VX-6 Multigun. I think it has all the things I liked about the Patrol and fixed some of the issues (like the exposed turrets).

Just noticed they do make a VX-R with capped turrets and a different reticle (and $100 cheaper). I'm starting to lean towards that or the VX-6.
Does anyone have experience with Aero's Ultralight mount? I was thinking of picking one of these up instead of a LaRue or Bobro mount because I don't need a QD mount.

[rob_s]

Just noticed they do make a VX-R with capped turrets and a different reticle (and $100 cheaper). I'm starting to lean towards that or the VX-6.
Does anyone have experience with Aero's Ultralight mount? I was thinking of picking one of these up instead of a LaRue or Bobro mount because I don't need a QD mount.

A friend has the VX-R "HOG" which is nice with the capped turrets, but it's a 1.5x vs the 1.25x of the "Patrol". It doesn't affect this friend as he uses it, surprise surprise, on hogs.

I want one of the Aero mounts for my eventual VX-6, however their lack of feedback on which length to get, and the recent thread here about some pretty craptastic customer service has me looking elsewhere.

I am disapoint in the limited number of options for lightweight non-throwlever optic mounts on the market.

[Deckard]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1037966-REG/leupold_111231_vx_r_1_25_4x20_30mm_riflescope.html

Found this one. Great price, firedot, 1.25x, and capped turrets. I might pick up Nightforce's Ultralite rings instead (~3.1oz) of Aero's.

[rob_s]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1037966-REG/leupold_111231_vx_r_1_25_4x20_30mm_riflescope.html

Found this one. Great price, firedot, 1.25x, and capped turrets. I might pick up Nightforce's Ultralite rings instead (~3.1oz) of Aero's.

Interesting. I didn't know that one existed. Looks like it has the smaller circle int he reticule vs. the Patrol, but that's probably immaterial.

[Deckard]

Interesting. I didn't know that one existed. Looks like it has the smaller circle int he reticule vs. the Patrol, but that's probably immaterial.

Didn't know about them either. Comes with different reticles.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1037946-REG/leupold_110683_vx_r_1_25_4x20_30mm_riflescope.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1037965-REG/leupold_111230_vx_r_1_25_4x20_30mm_riflescope.html

[rob_s]

I'd stick to the first one.

The Patrol has a similar reticule, but I believe the circle in the Patrol reticule is larger. note the image here (http://www.leupold.com/tactical/scopes/vx-r-patrol/vx-r-patrol-1-25-4x20mm-30mm/)vs. the one in your first link.

[IRacknBack]

Personally, i've owned the SWFA 1-6x scope and in idea it was awesome. Interesting reticle, good variable, sturdy, etc. I was so disappointed i sold it after 2 range trips and went with a Vortex PST 1-4x which i'm much happier and accurate with. The SWFA i had (not sure if available in other trims) was in MRADs instead of MOA adjustments which by itself sucked. It was in .1 MRAD (Vs .2 MRADs for the PST) which is ~.34 MOA and not as good as a top notch 1/4 MOA scope but may suit your needs.

I've also had 1.25-4 and 1.5-5 Leupold VX scopes and that small magnification was just enough to make me think I had cataracts but not enough to be useful at any sort of range. Same was not the case in the IOR Valdada 1.1-8x I had and would HIGHLY recommend that if the budget allows. They're around $1k IIRC. They also have a true 1-10x scope for about $2500 if so inclined!

I have average vision and can use a red dot to 200yds on a 10x12 plate all day. I have a 2 MOA Aimpoint and to crisp up the dot when needed, i have my rear BUS up to co witness. Also could hit 4/4 shots with just Irons in the military out to 300yds on a person sized target so a 4x on 500yds should be adequate.

I did have a great time with a leupold VXII 2-7x scope on a 20inch AR awhile back. I preferred it over the 3-9x. Also can be had from Leupold at $300 or so which leaves $600 for more ammo!

[Eric]

There's some good suggestions already discussed here. I was in a similar position several months back and ended up with a Vortex Optics Viper PST 1-4x24 TMCQ/MOA (http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-riflescope-with-tmcq-moa-reticle-capped-turrets). However, my application was for a scoped patrol rifle class. I was specifically looking for a 1-4 optic that had low profile capped turrets. While there's ample points for and against exposed target type turrets, for my needs the protection the caps provide make sense. The patrol rifle can get bounced around, pushed into other gear or other objects and the turrets can easily get spun, causing your zero to disappear. I'm more likely to leave it with a 100 yard zero and if needed, use holdover for POI adjustment, as opposed to dialing in DOPE. Overall, I liked the optic, especially given the reasonable price-point. Good clarity and a simple reticle. The illumination was useless in direct daylight (common with illuminated scopes vs a true red dot), but the black reticlle stood out. Yet another option.

[KevinBLC]

Maybe I missed it, but in the OP's post, I don't see how far they are going to shoot at this class he's going to. Does it have to be 1-XX? Why not 2.5-10? That new vortex one looks like it would fit the bill too.

[alpha.kilo]

I have had the opportunity to shoot most of the low power Leupold scopes over the past several years. I always seem to come back to the Mark 4 1.5-5 X20. If you can stretch it, as it is above your stated budget, I think it is worth it. I think the glass was significantly better than the VX model you are looking at. Especially as the light fades. http://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold-mark-4-1-5-5x20mm-mr-t-30mm-m2-matte-illuminated-spr-rifle-scope.html

With that said, if I was buying today, I would definitely consider the Votex Razor models. I don't really have any experience with them but I do see quite a few at the 3 gun matches.

AK

[iowa hawkeyes]

You may want to check these out also.

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-1-6x24-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P53845.aspx

This. I have the 1-4 and love it

[SINNER]

Vortex Viper PST 1-4. I honestly do not think there is a better 1-4 under $800. It is better than my VX-R firedot and honestly hard to pick my IOR or Trijicon TR24 over it not even considering the VV PST is half the cost of either of those optics.

[Txfilmmaker]

Vortex Viper PST 1-4. I honestly do not think there is a better 1-4 under $800. It is better than my VX-R firedot and honestly hard to pick my IOR or Trijicon TR24 over it not even considering the VV PST is half the cost of either of those optics.

Second that choice!

[Ride4frnt]

Made a preliminary review of the PA 1-6x I received today. Hopefully can shoot this weekend, depends on when my nephew gets here (he was due to be born Sunday)

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6436