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BM2
28 September 2014, 05:20
Hi, new to the forum and wanted to pick people's brains. I didn't see this covered in any threads (used the search) also not positive this is the best part of the forum for this so please forgive my ignorance.

I want to start carrying concealed, don't carry now. I wanted to know what set ups (I.e. Locations of carry and type of carry works for some of you). I am what I would say a medium build, 5'11" at 180 lbs. I am not thin but not over weight but I do have what I consider a small gut I am working to get ride off. I generally wear pants and a t-shirt. Fall and spring a light coat and winter a heavy coat as it gets cold here in Vermont. I want to come up with a decent way to carry so I can train in that set up before actually carrying. Where I work we can't carry now but I would talk to the boss to see if that can change (big active shooter push going on). I sit for a few hours at a time at work or driving. I also stand and walk around a lot. Off of work I work on fixing up my house and my parents house. I also work on cars, to give an idea of movements I make and positions I am in. Thank you for any advice. It is highly appreciated.


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Uffdaphil
28 September 2014, 05:47
Do you have a specific gun for carry? What are your state laws concerning brandishing? Here in MN permit is for carry, not necessarily concealed, so accidental exposure of gun not a problem. My J-frame snubby hides decently OWB on belt at 3-4 o'clock or in pocket with a tee shirt or better with untucked polo. Winter is a CZ compact in AIWB or OWB paddle that requires more layers to conceal. A holster that clips on is easier to shift position a bit when sitting, but need to verify often that it has not worked loose. Small of the back does not work for me with my bad shoulder joints.

BM2
28 September 2014, 06:51
I am currently thinking of picking up an hk45 compact or a p30 for carry. I currently only own full size and I don't think my body structure will let me conceal that easily or comfortably. I live in vermont there are no laws against carrying concealed or open. I just would like to carry concealed. In open carry I feel you have someone to choices leave you alone or shoot you. Concealed you have more options and benefit of surprise. Thank you.


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Aragorn
28 September 2014, 07:58
I've always carried strong side iwb, rolled just slightly behind the hip. I'm fairly lean so rolling it back aids in concealment. I've always used Crossbreed or Comptac Ctac holster. The Crossbreed has concealed my full sized M&P for years, and for the while I carried a CZ SP-01 Shadow the Comptac did good concealing it as well. I'm also fairly active and don't like wearing much more than a T-Shirt. The guns you're talking about are a little bigger though.

BM2
28 September 2014, 13:20
Aragorn is that a comfortable position to carry for a full range of activity and sitting? Thank you for the input.


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MoxyDave
28 September 2014, 14:46
I've tried a lot of options and found that a single-stack 9mm on the hip in a thin kydex holster works best for me. I keep a spare mag in my pocket. Anything more than that and I start to feel weighed down.

Wondering Beard
28 September 2014, 14:53
It's a body type thing. What works for him may not work for you but, in general yes, it can be perfectly comfortable for a full range of activities and sitting.

Just make sure you get a proper belt.

DutyUse
28 September 2014, 15:36
I've tried a lot of options and found that a single-stack 9mm on the hip in a thin kydex holster works best for me. I keep a spare mag in my pocket. Anything more than that and I start to feel weighed down.

This. Single stack 9 in kydex on hip, great luck with the walther pps and shield. I can usually get away with just a tshirt wearing a g26 aswell. Lately for quick trips I just throw the g42 in a pocket for connivence.

Everyone is different but the p30 you mentioned is starting to get out of the realm of easily concealed for me personally.

Kopis
2 October 2014, 07:12
Im a big glock fan, usually carry my g17 OTW open carry in a comptac straight drop or if i need to conceal for crowds/fine dining i wear my crossbreed IWB which makes a full size pistol completely disappear and makes me forget im wearing it. G19 for deep cover.

All that being said, ive been shooting a few friends M&P Shield 9mm and i love them! Extremely ergonomic, thin and amazingly accurate. The only drawback is living in memphis where i feel like i need more capacity although im sure most groups of thugs would scatter at the first shot. Just hope im never in that situation.


If you're new to carrying, i would recommend going to a local range. They often have specials certain nights of the week and you can usually rent a gun to try out. Try a few and see what feels comfy then rent it. Some ranges will let you swap out as many pistols as you want for a single rental price. Im also a big 9mm fan as it is the cheapest ammo. You can get some great 147grain self defense rounds for them now.

Pyzik
2 October 2014, 07:42
I too work in an office setting and do a lot of sitting at work. I carry an M&P 9c appendix while at work (tucked, slacks & button up shirt). It works well for me.
I am about the same build as you. 6' 180lbs, pretty fit.
Outside of work it's a fullsize M&P9 OWB unless I am somewhere NEED to really conceal then I go back to the 9c.

skijunkie55
3 October 2014, 07:16
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt28/skijunkie55/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1258.jpg
My EDC setup.

G19 with an AIWB kydex holster. I like the clip vs loops because I can easily remove if needed, and never have to reholster right at my crotch...

HardEight
3 October 2014, 07:21
G19 IWB Kydex Holster I made for myself.
Right around 3 to 3:30.

Maybe it is because I am short, but I have never seen how anyone can carry appendix and be in anything but misery the entire time.

BM2
3 October 2014, 07:39
How is appendix carry for sitting? I feel sitting is my biggest worry. I would think appendix carry would dig in. I feel anything around 3:30 or more would stick back when seated for others to see. Like I said I'm new so if I am wrong please let me know. As of now leaning towards trying the hk45c (if it feels right in my hands). If that doesn't work well for me to conceal I can look for a different gun later. Wife and I decide to wait until after Christmas so hopefully I can narrow down where I want to try and carry so I can get a good holster for my intended purpose. Leaning towards appendix and 3:30 seems to be the most recommended and what I think would hide well on my body type. Any preferred brands/types, I saw trex-arms and was thinking of trying them out. Thanks for all the help and input. I hope one day I can pay the advice and help forward.


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skijunkie55
3 October 2014, 07:45
I (unfortunately) sit 9 of 10 hours during my work days, and appendix carry doesn't really bother me. The cut of the holster plays a big deal in comfort. Mine is tapered pretty well so it rests on my leg more than it digs in. First few days were annoying but now I barely notice. Helps that I've lost a couple inches in the waist since I started carrying too.

tact
3 October 2014, 07:59
Appendix is fine seated. Like others have stated the cut of the holster is important and a person's build as well.

BM2
3 October 2014, 08:25
For appendix what type of cut should I be looking for, or is this body type specific? Not entirely sure what you mean by cut. Thank you.


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rob_s
3 October 2014, 08:25
Carry preferences are SO personal as to be almost useless in terms of what other people do. Holsters, guns, positions, etc. are all subject to too many variable to think that what works for any one person would work for you. However, we can look at trends and commonalities and start to get an idea.

Position
By far, the 3-4 o'clock position for right-handed shooters is the most common.

Inside/outside
For newer shooters just getting started, and who are often more conscious of being spotted, IWB is far more common. That said, you have to figure out if your current clothing will acoomodate that. If not, you may want to try a single pair of pants with a slightly larger, or adjustable, waist before changing your entire wardrobe.

Firearm
As mentioned above, there is a lot of love for the single-stack 9mm. Especially true given the two criteria above. Problem is, there aren't a lot of single-stack 9s that are worth a damn. Some will point to Kahrs (http://www.kahr.com/), but for every guy that loves his, there's another one that hates them. a 50/50 split isn't too encouraging, IMO. The Glock 26 (http://us.glock.com/products/model/g26gen4), while not being single stack, is probably the most common CWP gun I see anywhere. The S&W M&P sheild (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_831056_-1_780153_757781_757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y) is about 1/4" thinner than the G26 but I'm not up on whether they are considered good to go or not.

Holster Mounting
Havving two clips/loops, one on either side of the gun, is pretty widely accepted as the easiest to conceal because the attachments are building bulk on top of the gun. Examples would be the Versa Max II (http://www.miltsparks.com/VM-2.htm) in leather and the Raven Concealment (http://raven-concealment-systems1.mybigcommerce.com/glock-phantom-modular-holster/) holsters in Kydex. Kydex is definitely the order of the day in 2014.

Belt
Opinions vary on relative stiffness (there is a trend of late to go really nutso with belt stiffness) but chances are none of the belts in your closet are sufficient, even the ones you think are. The baseline for most folks is the Wilderness Istructor belt 5-stitch (http://www.thewilderness.com/tactical-belts/easy-fit-original-instructor-belt/). Not a lot of people look for a belt that is less stiff than that, but some people wind up wanting MOAR.

Based on all of the above, my personal suggestion to anyone looking to start carrying is to buy a Glock 26, a Raven Concealment holster with IWB soft loops, and a belt from The Wilderness. The problem is, the G26 just isn't that much fun to shoot. The solution is to buy a Glock 19 (http://us.glock.com/products/model/g19), and a holster cut for the Glock 19, to start out with and the holster and mag pouches will work for the G26 later on if you find the G19 to be too large. Plus, using the G19 mag(s) as a spare for the G26 means you get 11 in the gun and 15 on the hip. Beyond what comes with the gun(s), buy Glock 17 magazines from there on out as they'll work in all of the 9mm Glocks.

tact
3 October 2014, 08:53
For appendix what type of cut should I be looking for, or is this body type specific? Not entirely sure what you mean by cut. Thank you.


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Sorry....I'll try to explain myself better. I am not aware of a specific cut per se, but more of how the manufacturers cuts or leaves the material surrounding the form of the pistol. Some hybrids (kydex plus leather) are a bit more comfortable than just all kydex. I had to get rid of the leather since I work in a hot climate and it absorbed all of my sweat which started to have adverse effects on my pistol and ammo. In reference to body type I was just referring to slimmer people over those with a keg belly.

If the AIWB carry works out for you I think you'll find it has many benefits over any other position.

JoshAston
3 October 2014, 09:10
I carry (when I'm not in MD) just forward of 3 o'clock. About 2:45 or so. IWB. Even my G20 is sufficiently concealed under just a T. Quality holsters and belts play a bigger part in concealment than the size of the gun.

Also, too many people sacrifice shootability for a gun that truly disappears. It really only needs to be invisible to a casual inspection as 99.9% of the population is oblivious. The other .1% tends to be fellow carriers, not cops or criminals.

Pyzik
3 October 2014, 09:35
I use a Raven Concealment VG2 for appendix. Sitting is fine for me.

rob_s
3 October 2014, 10:11
Also, too many people sacrifice shootability for a gun that truly disappears.

Disagree strongly.

What's the first rule of a gunfight? Have a gun! not to mention that, statistically, simply having the gun is what makes the difference. Despite what pockets of the internet might say, making headshots at 25 yards and carrying 35 rounds of ammo in spare mags isn't really a deciding factor often enough to even be considered as relevant.

UWone77
3 October 2014, 11:17
My philosophy on concealed carry is like rob says, to have a gun in case of a gun fight.

I carry a Kahr CW9, because for me it's not practical to carry a Glock 17 like I do on duty. My job is also different on my off-duty time. My first plan in an escalating situation is verbal deescalation or fleeing the scene.

If I have no other choice, and I have to draw and shoot, I'm not looking for a sustained gunfight, It's shoot, then retreat if/when possible, call 911.

Sure, having a larger gun that's easier to shoot with more rounds is ideally better, but realistically, I have to make choices based on practicality. For me that's a smaller gun, with fewer rounds. I believe my skills and gun choice will be able to handle most encounters, because reality tells me there is no way I can plan for everything.

JoshAston
3 October 2014, 11:26
Disagree strongly.

What's the first rule of a gunfight? Have a gun! not to mention that, statistically, simply having the gun is what makes the difference. Despite what pockets of the internet might say, making headshots at 25 yards and carrying 35 rounds of ammo in spare mags isn't really a deciding factor often enough to even be considered as relevant.

Kahr K9, S&W 3913, Glock 19, Colt Officers ACP, are all plenty concealable while still being very shootable. Micro 9s, even most of the pocket .380s aren't all that easy to shoot well. Statistically I'll never even need to draw my gun. Obviously I can't always be prepared for the worst case scenario by rolling in an MRAP with dual mounted M2 and Mk19, so I'll compromise by carrying a compact, or even sometimes full size, pistol rather than a micro.

I do own a few of the tiny pistols for those times when I feel like carrying a backup or I'm in a situation where I can't carry a gun.

rob_s
3 October 2014, 12:39
Within the context of this thread, we're talking about someone that's new to carrying, and may be new(ish) to shooting, or at least shooting with a higher purpose.

Telling someone like that "you're doing it wrong" if they're not carrying a 5" 1911 or a Glock 17 is counter-productive. I encourage people to start with the largest gun they feel comfortable concealing. Why? Because a guy that leaves the house with a gun he's comfortable with is better than the guy who leaves the house with the gun that makes him self-conscious and drags his pants down. My first "real" handgun (after a cheap .45 and a 686) was a Glock 26, followed a couple of months later by a Glock 19. I actually shot the 26 better than I did the 19 for a long time. I've carried, since then, a 5" all-steel 1911, an aluminum 4.25" 1911, a Glock 19, a Glock 26, an NAA mini-mag, a Kel Tec P32, and a S&W VTAC M&P. For many years if I was outside the house and not in a prohibited area, I was carrying a gun.

But then, these days I rarely carry at all, and when I do it's a j-frame, a small fixed blade, and 40 years of hate. Most days I just roll out with the hate and a sharp pen.

FortTom
3 October 2014, 13:11
One thing I haven't seen mentioned which can make a big difference in your choice of carry, method and concealment types. Your state laws. In KY we have open carry. So, if you get a CCW here, you won't have to worry about "printing". If you have to carry a firearm so deeply concealed that any possibility of the most slightest bit of printing, in my opinion takes away a lot of advantage of any training you may have. Gang bangers, and Meth heads normally just have theirs handy under their shirts, or in their pockets where they can access very quickly. You'll have to make all of those decisions as to the best way to comfortably carry.

Me, I don't worry. Since it's "open carry" here,, if you have a weapon under your shirt, and you bend over to grab something off the shelf at the grocery store and your pistol/holster shows briefly then you're good to go, either way, because you still have a CCW, so there's no grey area there. I can carry what I want, usually a M&P or a G23 in a BladeTech eclipse holster at approx. 3:30 with a slight forward (FBI "type") cant, and I'm cool. Our build sizes are similar, per your description. So I have no need for an extra wardrobe of oversized pants and shirts to "hide" my weapon. When wearing an old pair of BDU's fishing along some creeks and rivers, where I may face rabid coyotes, fox, dogs and drug manufacturers and growers, I sometimes use an IWB because I can adjust the waist size, and it keeps everything from getting muddy when I inevitably slip in some mud.

Most sates aren't as lenient as KY so you need to be very well versed in your states laws before picking any style of concealment, and what may or may not occur while just simply carrying concealed.

One last thing, you may end up trying several carry methods, before you find out what is best for you. What feels comfortable and compliant with the law today, may after many hours of wear, you may find it not quite so comfortable as you thought.

Good Luck,

FT

voodoo_man
3 October 2014, 13:27
For those new to carrying I would HIGHLY suggest carrying strong side (if right handed) 3 o'clock. Get used to doing that, practice with it and then move on to appendix if you can/feel comfortable doing so.

There are dozens of places to get good holsters made up and some will even work for AIWB as well as standard IWB carry.

BM2
3 October 2014, 17:50
Vermont doesn't have carry laws. Can be concealed or open it doesn't matter. I just think concealed gives more options than if someone knows you are carrying. Based off what some of you have said I think I may try to carry my current HK strong side even if there is printing or slightly uncomfortable for a bit. I can then better understand what my body type can handle and what I find comfortable. Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate the help.


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Kopis
7 October 2014, 14:00
I can confidently say hardly anyone notices when I open carry so I no longer worry about printing when I conceal. Wearing a shirt with any kind of pattern helps break up the print of the firearm.


Although I am definitely an open carry fan for many reasons, there are times when i choose to CC. Drawing from CC especially in winter needs to be practiced a lot. It's not like OC where you can use the correct 5 point draw, you have to use your spare hand to move your shirt/jacket up and make sure the firearm doesnt hang on it.

I encourage everyone to get a friend and try the Tueller drill and draw from your standard holster whatever that may be. You can either build a simple H stand on a base with four wheels and have your partner pull it towards you from 21' or have two targets 42' apart with both people in the middle. the firearm holder draws and shoots the opposite direction as the person running toward the other target with a faux knife or baton. It's pretty surprising and fun. It really demonstrates how important situation awareness is. I can assure you whether you shoot someone with a ruger LCP or 1911, they're not going to be happy. The most important thing is to be able to draw, aim, ready weapon from muscle memory.

voodoo_man
7 October 2014, 15:10
I encourage everyone to get a friend and try the Tueller drill and draw from your standard holster whatever that may be. You can either build a simple H stand on a base with four wheels and have your partner pull it towards you from 21' or have two targets 42' apart with both people in the middle. the firearm holder draws and shoots the opposite direction as the person running toward the other target with a faux knife or baton. It's pretty surprising and fun. It really demonstrates how important situation awareness is. I can assure you whether you shoot someone with a ruger LCP or 1911, they're not going to be happy. The most important thing is to be able to draw, aim, MOVE, ready weapon from muscle memory.

added something for you.