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SwissyJim
7 October 2014, 22:59
So... had some fun today. I wanted to test some Lehigh Defense, LLC projectiles but, at $1.50 per PROJECTILE, do they perform and expand as advertised?

I found some recipes for homemade ballistic gelatin but I should note, this is NOT official ballistic gel, but rather kitchen gelatin made thicker, to *about* the 10% gel that the FBI recommends.

After making it up per the youtube vid and other online resources, and letting it set the required amount of time (day and a half) I took it out to the range today. I had to transport it in coolers, but not to keep it from melting, but rather from freezing! It was a balmy 30 degrees when I was testing today but only 20 when I left my house.

My load was the 194g bullet, loaded with 10.5g od A1680 to a COAL or 2.185", using homemade case from LC brass.

I used my 8" 300BLK SBR with a SilencerCo Specwar762, and a Primary Arms, LLC red dot sight that I had on my M&P 15-22 that was sighted in for about 15ft due to some squirrel issues. That proved to be a huge time saver, as it proved that it was also mostly sighted in for the 300blk at the same distance. After verifying the sights with some 208 HPBT Hornady subsonic ammo, I tried one round of the Lehigh Defense to make sure there was no shift in POI. There was not, so I let one loose into the gel.

I was expecting something cool. A block of gel to jump up. A loud POP in the gel. The whole table to wobble. Anything. But I had to get up and check to make sure I actually hit the gel, it was so quiet and calm. I found a neat little entry hole, and unfortunately the gel is not very clear, but an amber color. It took a few seconds to find the bullet, and the path was a little easier to see. I wish I had a cool high speed camera to do slow motion, but I didn't even have room to set up my GoPro. (Next time I'll take a tripod to use the GoPro)

I was able to locate and cut out the bullet...it was perfectly deformed, just as it should be. It penetrated roughly 15 inches of the gel - just into the second block. They are sold at 194 grain bullets, and the recovered weight of this one was 193.4 - and in all fairness, I do not know what it was before loading it. But it's pretty easy to see it did not lose much, if ANY, of its weight.

So curiosity got ahold of me. What would a Hornady 208 grain Hollow Point Boat Tail projectile do? Since the second block of gel was barely touched, I turned the sawhorses around and readied for a second shot, this time the 208g HPBT. I actually shot 2, just for the hell of it. And the results were interesting (at least to me)

The bullets did not deform in any way. They look like brand new, save the rifling marks from the barrel. Both the bullets was found backwards, meaning they tumbled when they hit the gel. They penetrated the same depth into the gel, roughly 15 inches. The path also showed an area spread apart (wound channel) that I can only surmise is from the bullet tumbling. But it looked to be roughly the same size path as the Lehigh, but more 'one dimensional' from the tumbling. The Lehigh path would take a cucumber to fill the hole, whereas the Hornady would take a small booklet due to it being a flat opening. I have no idea what the temporary channel would be... probably impressive.

http://www.swissybaroo.com//Photos/var/resizes/Misc/DSCN0298.JPG (http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/albums/Misc/DSCN0298.JPG) http://www.swissybaroo.com//Photos/var/resizes/Misc/DSCN0304.JPG (http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/albums/Misc/DSCN0304.JPG) http://www.swissybaroo.com//Photos/var/resizes/Misc/DSCN0312.JPG (http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/albums/Misc/DSCN0312.JPG) http://www.swissybaroo.com//Photos/var/resizes/Misc/DSCN0320.JPG (http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/albums/Misc/DSCN0320.JPG)

these are the Hornady 208g HPBT
http://www.swissybaroo.com//Photos/var/resizes/Misc/DSCN0318.JPG (http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/albums/Misc/DSCN0318.JPG)

the 2 bullets side by side
http://www.swissybaroo.com//Photos/var/resizes/Misc/DSCN0325.JPG (http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/albums/Misc/DSCN0325.JPG)

Pretty cool, and lots of fun (was a GREAT conversation starter at the range!) but by no means an 'official' or scientific test. But, I wanted to test the bullets in MY gun with MY loads. Overall, I've super happy with the results. I actually was expecting the Hornady's to go thru the block, all nice and clean.I'm a little surprised they penetrated the same as the Lehigh Defense. My plan is to re-melt the gel, then form it again and test the 208 A-May subs and if the gel is willing, some 110 Barnes supers.

DutyUse
8 October 2014, 10:42
Nice Test! Excellent documentation and wow what a devastating round. I ordered some of Lehigh's 380 defensive ammo for my wife's G42 recently. It seem's like Lehigh is breaking the mold when it comes to bullet design to great effect.

Jerry R
8 October 2014, 15:19
^ +1 on the test and documentation --- the Go-Pro video would be very interesting !!

Have you done any chronograph work on your load ? It opened so well, I'm curious on the velocities. Do you have maximum range for expansion of that bullet/load combo?

SwissyJim
8 October 2014, 20:11
^ +1 on the test and documentation --- the Go-Pro video would be very interesting !!

Have you done any chronograph work on your load ? It opened so well, I'm curious on the velocities. Do you have maximum range for expansion of that bullet/load combo?

I did chrono the loads when I tested them initially... I don't have my book in front of me (it's at home), but I know I ran with the load that gave me 1050fps +/- with the suppressor on. As far as the effective range... no idea. I've only tested them for accuracy to 100yrds and this function test at 20ft. Once I play with some more rounds in the gel, I'll see if I can test the function @ 100yrds. Just sucks they are $1.50 a bullet...

SwissyJim
12 October 2014, 14:03
Just a quick addition... I'm cutting up the gel to re-melt and re-use it and found out something neat. A cross section of the gel shows the cavity pretty darn good. Sadly, I didn't realize what I was seeing until the block I shot the Lehigh Defense round into, was in many little chunks. But I was able to get a shot of the block I shot the 2 Hornady 208g HPBT rounds into. It shows the one dimensional, temporary cavity pretty well. The Lehigh cavity was more destructed... it was not able to 'close up' and 'reseal' like this.

Cool enough (in my mind!) to warrant sacrificing another Lehigh round to get a shot it that cavity.
http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/resizes/Misc/DSCN0336.jpg (http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/albums/Misc/DSCN0336.jpg)

SwissyJim
12 October 2014, 15:26
Aaaaaand another add. The guy at Lehigh said I may find this - the plunger that is in each bullet to ensure they expand. Accounts for the weight missing... mine weight 193.4 when I dug it out of the gel.


http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/resizes/Misc/DSCN0338.jpg (http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/albums/Misc/DSCN0338.jpg)

SwissyJim
14 October 2014, 19:38
another day of fun!

http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/resizes/Misc/DSCN0350.JPG?m=1413334761 (http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/albums/Misc/DSCN0350.JPG)

Left to right:

All shot into gel @ 20ft with my 8", 1"7 twist SBR with Specwar762 attached
Hornady 208 A-Max, 1021FPS , 17" penetration, tumbled
Gemtech 187, 1011FPS, 23" penetration, did not tumble
Remington Hog Hammer 130g, 1987FPS, 26" penetration
Barnes 110g TAC-TX, 2123FPS, 17½" penetration

Thought this was neat too... proper expansion cavity vs. tumbled cavity
http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/resizes/Misc/DSCN0345.JPG?m=1413340489 (http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/albums/Misc/DSCN0345.JPG?m=1413340488) http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/resizes/Misc/DSCN0346.JPG?m=1413340489 (http://www.swissybaroo.com/Photos/var/albums/Misc/DSCN0346.JPG?m=1413340488)

next time I hope to test them at 100yrds

urhero
27 October 2014, 15:19
The Lehigh and Barnes look to be some pretty nice rounds. I've been planning to do some loads with the Barnes for hogs. Might need to.try the Lehigh as well. Nice write up

SwissyJim
27 October 2014, 18:57
The Lehigh and Barnes look to be some pretty nice rounds. I've been planning to do some loads with the Barnes for hogs. Might need to.try the Lehigh as well. Nice write up

Thanks... Lehigh has a few different options for rounds. These (194g) are specific to subsonic loadouts - I think the guy there told me that at over 1700fps they could potentially expand in mid-air. They have others for supers however. Well worth looking at IMO. But the Barnes is tried and true as well. Not to mention the Hog Hammer did pretty good as well.

SINNER
27 October 2014, 19:45
I have used both the hog hammers and the TAC-TX and your results are exactly what I found hunting with those. The HH's over penetrated and under expanded on multiple animals. The TAC's are flat out deadly with internal damage not far off from .308's at comparable ranges. Very nice test and write up.

gatordev
13 November 2015, 14:14
Resurrecting the thread...

Any good sources for factory ammo for the Lehigh 194s? So far the price to beat is $45/20, which is steep. And no, reloading isn't an option right now.

toolboxluis00200
13 November 2015, 14:33
Wish I had a location like that love to do some testing like u did

Deadwing
9 December 2015, 21:11
Great test, Jim. Impressive results from both the Lehigh and Barnes projectiles.

SwissyJim
9 December 2015, 21:36
Wow, that was fun. Remember it well! LOL

And while we're on it, stay tuned. I got my hands on some new sub expanding bullets in 300BLK and 458Socom I gotta test...

DutyUse
9 December 2015, 22:20
Can't wait to try some soon :)

Hoping this will be my whitetail load in 2016

Deadwing
10 December 2015, 20:54
Really looking forward to what the 458 SOCOM will do!

SwissyJim
11 December 2015, 00:18
hoping to do so soon, but it's too cold out right now for the gel to sit. Supposed to warm up this coming week, and by then I hope to have some loads to test. Either the 458 or the new 300blk (or both!)

One thing I gotta do is find someone with a new GoPro some I can run it at the 120fps mode when I shoot the 458 into the gel [BD]

cjd3
12 December 2015, 18:05
If your aim is good, the iPhone 6 will do 120, 6s will do 240 iirc.

SwissyJim
12 December 2015, 20:25
first you have to have a need for a smart phone... then the desire to have one.

I have neither! My phone is dumber than I am...

SwissyJim
13 December 2015, 20:11
If your aim is good, the iPhone 6 will do 120, 6s will do 240 iirc.


first you have to have a need for a smart phone... then the desire to have one.

I have neither! My phone is dumber than I am...

Now, if you have one and wanna be the designated camera man, we could set up a time to go shoot...?

SwissyJim
26 December 2015, 17:32
Really looking forward to what the 458 SOCOM will do!

Getting closer! Was at the range yesterday and tested the 500grain subsonic expanding bullet load. Cycled, locked the bolt back, but not quite at the speed I was looking for. So I have a few more loads to work up and I think we'll be there. And the weather looks good this coming week for making the gel

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/smiley-shooting-gun.gif

Deadwing
27 December 2015, 01:36
Getting closer! Was at the range yesterday and tested the 500grain subsonic expanding bullet load. Cycled, locked the bolt back, but not quite at the speed I was looking for. So I have a few more loads to work up and I think we'll be there. And the weather looks good this coming week for making the gel

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/guns/smiley-shooting-gun.gif

Sweet! I have a feeling this is going to cost me money lol. Because i already want to build a 458 SOCOM gun. This will probably tip me over the edge lol.

SwissyJim
27 December 2015, 09:13
Sweet! I have a feeling this is going to cost me money lol. Because i already want to build a 458 SOCOM gun. This will probably tip me over the edge lol.
Then I probably shouldn't mention that I'm also working on loads using the Rainier 405g plated bullets for a cheap sub alternative... cheap enough to 'plink' with, if one can plink on a 458! LOL

Uffdaphil
27 December 2015, 10:33
Fun read. Have you compared the Nosler 190 CC to the 208? Just curious if they tumble or zip through.

SwissyJim
27 December 2015, 11:14
Fun read. Have you compared the Nosler 190 CC to the 208? Just curious if they tumble or zip through.
no, I haven't shot the Nosler 190's into the gel... but I would suspect they would act the same as either the Gemteck 187 or the Hornady 208 - tumble and penetrate a little further but not all the way thru. If I get time I'll try them out but I want to mainly focus on the 2 subsonic expanding rounds.

Fun thing is I found a new storage container to make the gel in that's 26" long so I only have to deal with one block of gel. Might even make it today so it's ready on Tuesday...

Deadwing
27 December 2015, 19:04
Then I probably shouldn't mention that I'm also working on loads using the Rainier 405g plated bullets for a cheap sub alternative... cheap enough to 'plink' with, if one can plink on a 458! LOL

LOL! Extreme plinking!

SwissyJim
27 December 2015, 21:00
nuts... slight delay. Looked at the mold, figured out the ratio and the Knox gel I had on hand. Had to place another Amazon order for more gel! I could try and run with the smaller mold I have but with the 458 slamming into it I think I need the bigger one. Sadly, Amazon Prime to Alaska is NOT 2nd day air like most other places. I'll be lucky to have it in a week's time.

Deadwing
27 December 2015, 21:53
I'm sure the delay will be worth it to do it the way you want to. Hope the weather holds out for you!