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TommyValkyrie
8 October 2014, 23:52
Building an AR in 300Blk/Wsp. Started with a Mega billet lower, Cmmg lower parts kit, Magpul K2 grip, Phase 5 ebrv2, Odin Works xmr, and KNS mod ST anti walk pins. Have a mega trigger and billet upper, plus BAD enhanced pins on the way. Know for a fact I'm going with a geissele Mk8, more than likely getting an Ace hammer stock, and at some point upgrading the Mega to an Elftmann tactical service trigger. Planning on an SRC bcg and relia-bolt, Yankee Hill diamond fluted 16" barrel, and magpul pro sights. I've been told that my parts list is enough to let on that this is my first build, but I figure that I might as well go all out on something like this. My question though, is does this seem like a solid set up? shoul anything be changed? I'm pretty n00bish, so any help really would be awesome guys.

TommyValkyrie
9 October 2014, 00:24
http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Tom_Egolf/Snapshot_20141009_1.jpg

Bear with me for the time being, using the cam on my PC because I smashed my phone at work and would rather put the money in my rifle than replace it. Haha

JoshAston
9 October 2014, 00:44
KNS pins are a waste of money in most circumstances. The lower parts kit isn't really needed since you're replacing practically every piece of it.

TommyValkyrie
9 October 2014, 01:04
I picked up the KNS pins at a local gun show for $5, and they look good. I plan on building another AR in 5.56 as soon as I'm done, so the extra parts will have a place, let alone the mega trigger needs the rest of the milspec parts to operate. I prefer to have dedicated platforms over conversion kits and the like.

Dstrbdmedic167
9 October 2014, 01:10
Looks like a good list and one heck of a build. I started my first build with a striped dpms forged lower and scrounged for parts as I could find them. If it's what you want keep on truckin, you'll have to build several to really see what you do and don't like.

TommyValkyrie
9 October 2014, 01:41
All the spare cash I have at the moment is going to this build, and being as obsessed with the way my guns look as I am in them as a whole, I knew from the get-go I'd be paying for it. Plus not only is it my first build, it's my first rifle, and one that I'm building with my father. This has a lot of sentimental value already.
As for finding parts, I've bought each and every one from a different online vendor, albeit the lower. Cashed in a favor at a local shop and had them order one for me. But I've found a lot of really good companies that I'll no doubt order from again.

CarbonScoring
9 October 2014, 09:29
What billet upper are you going with? If it's a Mega, you might have issues. I'm not positive (someone else might be able to clarify), but the Mega billet uppers don't usually work with Geissele rails without modification.

I'm building a Mega billet rifle right now, and I decided on the Parallax Tactical M-lok handguard because the Geissele rails require machining of the upper receiver.

Ride4frnt
9 October 2014, 10:00
What billet upper are you going with? If it's a Mega, you might have issues. I'm not positive (someone else might be able to clarify), but the Mega billet uppers don't usually work with Geissele rails without modification.

I'm building a Mega billet rifle right now, and I decided on the Parallax Tactical M-lok handguard because the Geissele rails require machining of the upper receiver.

I can confirm this is true. Geissele rails and mega uppers require machining to work together.

Deckard
9 October 2014, 10:12
If you're "noobish" I suggest building an AR as simple as possible and using the rest of your money on ammo and training. From there you can start deciding what you need to add.

DutyUse
9 October 2014, 13:31
^ Couldn't agree more. In fact I would almost talk you out of a custom build as your first and getting a Colt and finding out what you like and what you would perhaps change in the future. Whatever route you go welcome to the sickness brother!

Deckard
9 October 2014, 14:23
^ Couldn't agree more. In fact I would almost talk you out of a custom build as your first and getting a Colt and finding out what you like and what you would perhaps change in the future. Whatever route you go welcome to the sickness brother!

Absolutely, with a sling, rds, and light.

Since you already started the build just focus on choosing parts from well respected companies. Just curious, why did you pick .300BLK over 5.56 as you're first AR? Personally I'd save for an AAC barrel instead of Yankee Hill.

UWone77
10 October 2014, 08:23
I would stick with the 5.56 platform vs 300 BLK if this is your build. The costs associated with 300 ammo might turn you off on the platform. Besides, unless you are suppressed and/or shooting a short barrel, I think the benefits of 300 BLK are wasted.

CarbonScoring
10 October 2014, 08:38
I totally agree with UW. If you don't have an absolute need for 300, the cost is prohibitive. Since I live in MN and can't own a suppressor, for me there is just no point other than, I guess, the cool factor.

Ride4frnt
10 October 2014, 08:56
I bought .300blk for deer hunting, and really, the novelty has worn off. Have contemplated selling my .300blk barrel for a while now. I agree, if it's not suppressed or short barrel (or both) the benefits are wasted. I was uneducated at the time I built mine. It's a fine gun, but it does nothing more than what the same gun in 5.56 could do, IMO, and costs more to shoot.

TommyValkyrie
10 October 2014, 22:15
I would stick with the 5.56 platform vs 300 BLK if this is your build. The costs associated with 300 ammo might turn you off on the platform. Besides, unless you are suppressed and/or shooting a short barrel, I think the benefits of 300 BLK are wasted.

Well, I have paperwork in the works for a stamp on my Osprey 9mm which was originally bought for my M&P core. Was getting ready to send it off to salient arms, then decided to tackle this and leave money aside for whenever KelTec decides to release the CMR. But I digress-I saw that the osprey was rated for 300 blk, and the fact that I hate the tax stamp nonsense is preventing me from ever doing it again, I want to stick to one.

Also, I meant that I was noobish in the AR world, I have a fair experience with rifles and the culture in general. While I did plan on getting training underway with the AR specifically as soon as it was complete, I chose to go all out because I don't plan on having more than two or 3, with specialized platforms. (EG, next is a 308)

TommyValkyrie
10 October 2014, 22:16
What billet upper are you going with? If it's a Mega, you might have issues. I'm not positive (someone else might be able to clarify), but the Mega billet uppers don't usually work with Geissele rails without modification.

I'm building a Mega billet rifle right now, and I decided on the Parallax Tactical M-lok handguard because the Geissele rails require machining of the upper receiver.

I do have a Mega billet on the way, should be here Tuesday gods willing

FortTom
11 October 2014, 00:51
I would stick with the 5.56 platform vs 300 BLK if this is your build. The costs associated with 300 ammo might turn you off on the platform. Besides, unless you are suppressed and/or shooting a short barrel, I think the benefits of 300 BLK are wasted.


I bought .300blk for deer hunting, and really, the novelty has worn off. Have contemplated selling my .300blk barrel for a while now. I agree, if it's not suppressed or short barrel (or both) the benefits are wasted. I was uneducated at the time I built mine. It's a fine gun, but it does nothing more than what the same gun in 5.56 could do, IMO, and costs more to shoot.

I see a lot of that going on around here. I got offered a barrel, piston drive, and hand guard about a week ago, for probably a third or less than the guy paid for it, and still took a pass... I'm just throwing this out there, but I believe the 300BLK is a better round for the CQC commando types. For me personally, as a civilian, I could never really learn to care for it much..Just curious, if I read your post correctly, this is your first build? You don't have to justify anything to me, but I'm curious as to why this cartridge was your first pick.

If it's not to late, I would take UWone77's and Ride4frnt's advice into serious consideration.[:)]

Either way, good luck.

CarbonScoring
11 October 2014, 09:25
I do have a Mega billet on the way, should be here Tuesday gods willing

The Geissele rails and Mega billet uppers look great together (nsz85 did this combo (http://thearmsguide.com/7024/geissele-ar-15-super-modular-rail-mk3-full-review)). Just be prepared to take the upper to a machinist to get it milled to fit the rail.

TommyValkyrie
11 October 2014, 18:28
The Geissele rails and Mega billet uppers look great together (nsz85 did this combo (http://thearmsguide.com/7024/geissele-ar-15-super-modular-rail-mk3-full-review)). Just be prepared to take the upper to a machinist to get it milled to fit the rail.

That video is actually what made me decide to go with Mega and a geissele, as a matter of fact.


I see a lot of that going on around here. I got offered a barrel, piston drive, and hand guard about a week ago, for probably a third or less than the guy paid for it, and still took a pass... I'm just throwing this out there, but I believe the 300BLK is a better round for the CQC commando types. For me personally, as a civilian, I could never really learn to care for it much..Just curious, if I read your post correctly, this is your first build? You don't have to justify anything to me, but I'm curious as to why this cartridge was your first pick.

If it's not to late, I would take UWone77's and Ride4frnt's advice into serious consideration.[:)]

Either way, good luck.

I am debating what to do, and I will until I actually purchase the barrel. A little off topic, but do you guys no what type of performance I could expect out of a 5.56, and a .223 out of a 16" barrel?

Dstrbdmedic167
11 October 2014, 18:34
I am debating what to do, and I will until I actually purchase the barrel. A little off topic, but do you guys no what type of performance I could expect out of a 5.56, and a .223 out of a 16" barrel?

Elaborate on what you mean by performance? That depends a lot on the actual barrel you go with. I had a psa 16" 5.56 that would shoot 2 MOA at 100yds and yielded well over 3000 fps. My 12.5" arp 223 Wylde will do 2800 and get me .5" MOA at 100yds. Both were with my reloads that were just plinking style reloads( ie- 55gr fmj auto loaded)

TommyValkyrie
11 October 2014, 18:45
Elaborate on what you mean by performance? That depends a lot on the actual barrel you go with. I had a psa 16" 5.56 that would shoot 2 MOA at 100yds and yielded well over 3000 fps. My 12.5" arp 223 Wylde will do 2800 and get me .5" MOA at 100yds. Both were with my reloads that were just plinking style reloads( ie- 55gr fmj auto loaded)

I plan on using almost entirely commercial ammo. I do live in a city, or rather, just outside of one. So anything over a MAX of 200 yards is useless to me for this build. I plan on a long range 308 build once I'm finished, but this will be more of a CQC build, one of the main reasons I decided on 300blk initially.
I was always afraid of approaching a 5.56, because all I ever hear is that they just tumble out of anything other than 20" and up. I'm more interested in 75-100 yard performance, so for my needs (Or rather, wants) for this rifle, I just keep thinking that 300blk would fit best.

Ride4frnt
11 October 2014, 18:54
I plan on using almost entirely commercial ammo. I do live in a city, or rather, just outside of one. So anything over a MAX of 200 yards is useless to me for this build. I plan on a long range 308 build once I'm finished, but this will be more of a CQC build, one of the main reasons I decided on 300blk initially.
I was always afraid of approaching a 5.56, because all I ever hear is that they just tumble out of anything other than 20" and up. I'm more interested in 75-100 yard performance, so for my needs (Or rather, wants) for this rifle, I just keep thinking that 300blk would fit best.

Think of cost as well. .300blk will break you. And it's not as readily available. Inside 200yds you could shoot 5.56 accurately with irons (no groups, but you could hit a body sized target) .300 is gonna perform best with a suppressor.

Dstrbdmedic167
11 October 2014, 18:55
I plan on using almost entirely commercial ammo. I do live in a city, or rather, just outside of one. So anything over a MAX of 200 yards is useless to me for this build. I plan on a long range 308 build once I'm finished, but this will be more of a CQC build, one of the main reasons I decided on 300blk initially.
I was always afraid of approaching a 5.56, because all I ever hear is that they just tumble out of anything other than 20" and up. I'm more interested in 75-100 yard performance, so for my needs (Or rather, wants) for this rifle, I just keep thinking that 300blk would fit best.

Couldn't be farther from the truth.. I have had a 7.5" pistol and still didn't have any tumbling issues even out to 100 yds. (never went much further with that one) I'll say it like this it is THE round our military and LEO use.( take that as you want but it's a positive to me) Yea the 300 is a lot bigger bullet but of you think about it which is likely to tumble first? A small 55-62gr projectile or a 125-220gr projectile in essence the same case? especially if your planning a CQB type build and looking for 100yds or less in most cases the 5.56 is and will be the way to go. You will also spend A LOT less money of 5.56 - ammo vs 300blk ammo. I'm building a 300 blk SBR now. But only because I plan to solely run it suppressed and subsonic. Otherwise I'll stick to my 5.56 or wolverine for CQB, 6.8 for average range and 308 if I really need to get out there... Just my $.02...

TommyValkyrie
11 October 2014, 19:11
Couldn't be farther from the truth.. I have had a 7.5" pistol and still didn't have any tumbling issues even out to 100 yds. (never went much further with that one) I'll say it like this it is THE round our military and LEO use.( take that as you want but it's a positive to me) Yea the 300 is a lot bigger bullet but of you think about it which is likely to tumble first? A small 55-62gr projectile or a 125-220gr projectile in essence the same case? especially if your planning a CQB type build and looking for 100yds or less in most cases the 5.56 is and will be the way to go. You will also spend A LOT less money of 5.56 - ammo vs 300blk ammo. I'm building a 300 blk SBR now. But only because I plan to solely run it suppressed and subsonic. Otherwise I'll stick to my 5.56 or wolverine for CQB, 6.8 for average range and 308 if I really need to get out there... Just my $.02...


Think of cost as well. .300blk will break you. And it's not as readily available. Inside 200yds you could shoot 5.56 accurately with irons (no groups, but you could hit a body sized target) .300 is gonna perform best with a suppressor.



I do plan on suppressing it, but I do want to be able to use supersonic as well. From the guys I've talked to, 300blk supersonic hits pretty damn hard. However you guys are starting to push me towards 5.56, so now I'm all over the place.

CarbonScoring
12 October 2014, 01:22
Are you just going to be punching paper, or do you need a harder hitting round?

For a home defense rifle, I believe either round would be better than pistol calibers. If, like me, you are going to be shooting 99.999999% (hopefully 100%) of the time at the range, 5.56 is probably a better choice.

As for performance, most quality, 16" barrels should be able to do 1 MOA at 100 yards. Look at the Mega or Rainier Match barrels.

GOST
12 October 2014, 12:22
I personally wouldn't go with 300 BO unless I was building an SBR, and was reloading.

TommyValkyrie
12 October 2014, 14:38
I personally wouldn't go with 300 BO unless I was building an SBR, and was reloading.

I may or may not SBR it at some point, around 10.5 inch barrel. I have been wanting to reload for a long time but I'd have no idea where to start or what I was doing.


Are you just going to be punching paper, or do you need a harder hitting round?

For a home defense rifle, I believe either round would be better than pistol calibers. If, like me, you are going to be shooting 99.999999% (hopefully 100%) of the time at the range, 5.56 is probably a better choice.

As for performance, most quality, 16" barrels should be able to do 1 MOA at 100 yards. Look at the Mega or Rainier Match barrels.

I do want something that hits a little harder, I'm just not a fan of the AK platform. I will be punching holes in plenty of paper though as well. I plan on getting some serious training down the road too.

UWone77
14 October 2014, 16:37
First,

I would not shoot 300 supersonic out of a pistol can. Most of them are only rated for subs. Regardless, I shoot rifles rounds out of my rifle cans.

I'd still stick to 5.56. If you really want 300 down the road, do a barrel swap or an upper swap. The distances and the type of shooting you seem to want to do, I'd just get myself a quality CHF barrel, Daniel Defense, BCM, Rainier Mountain Series, ect and call it a day.

TommyValkyrie
15 October 2014, 22:31
First,

I would not shoot 300 supersonic out of a pistol can. Most of them are only rated for subs. Regardless, I shoot rifles rounds out of my rifle cans.

I'd still stick to 5.56. If you really want 300 down the road, do a barrel swap or an upper swap. The distances and the type of shooting you seem to want to do, I'd just get myself a quality CHF barrel, Daniel Defense, BCM, Rainier Mountain Series, ect and call it a day.

I wouldn't shoot supersonic anything out of a can. Watched a guy I knew shoot 5.56 supersonic out of a 9mm can, didn't end well. The osprey however, is rated for 300 subsonic

WHSmithIV
16 October 2014, 02:33
I thought originally to build a .300 blackout pistol. It would actually be one of the most perfect bedside home defense weapons especially with subsonic rounds. However, to use it outside the home for other things would be cost prohibitive due to the cost of ammo. That is one of the reasons I've changed the design to be a 7.62x39 - ammo is much cheaper. I also changed the plan on barrel length so that the pistol build won't be too much of a flamethrower. What use is a flash hider with so much flash that still throws so much flame that it's still a flame thrower? This is a problem I've been wrestling with. I want the 7.62x39 to be an actual pistol build but I don't want so darn much flash from it that I can't see at night when I use it. A 10.5" barrel seems like it 'might' work, but I'm not even really sure of that. I know a 7.5" or 8" barrel simply wont give the cartridge enough time to burn off the powder and it would be a flame thrower.

There simply isn't yet enough data available publicly posted for barrel lengths, flash emitted and calibers for rifle cartridges used as pistol configurations.

Well, I'm going to build this one with my best guess. Then I will publish data on how well it does the job with factory available and military surplus ammo. One thing is for sure, it WILL eat anything I feed it.

We all buy the parts we like and can afford to make our guns the way we want them to be. Technically there isn't a lot between what is available and there is MOST certainly a LOT of options available. AR's are Lego kits for adults. Your parts list is good. Build it! Then show us all pictures and a range report.

I can't give you specific info on the parts you have. I am not a type 7 FFL who builds custom guns. I just build my own and I haven't used any of the parts in your list. Your parts list does look good though and I would build one from them.

-Will-


Edit:
You build what you want. Just use milspec and decent components. That's all you really need to do. How many rounds do you expect to put through it in the next 10 years? Just because some parts are eye candy that doesn't mean that they are actually any better than less expensive parts that are not eye candy. Those less expensive parts often get the job done just as well or even better than the more expensive parts. I worked in an Aluminum factory for several years. The raw metal is extruded into more workable smaller pieces. There really is no difference whether a lower receiver is forged or a billet (a billet is simply worked from a block that is cut from the block rather than being melted into it's primary shape). Melting into the primary shape or forging it, metallurigically, with aluminum there will be no difference as to strength using the same same T rating of the metal. Billet made will simply have a nicer external finish. A more 'satin' type of finish. The metal will work the same and actually the cheaper forging will be just a tad stronger since the molecules of the metal will have aligned in the forging. Forging is melting metal into its final shape. Trying to compare a forged OR billet receiver to a polymer one is really like comparing an apple to a daisy. Comparing a forged or billet receiver really is like comparing two very close types of apples together. Fit is always determined by the quality of the machining, not by which version of the metal was used. Anodizing is what provides the hardening finish and the chemicals used for that anodizing will determine how 'satin' the finish is - but that's all. It won't provide a stronger receiver.

So, for those of you with a tight budget, there is no need to buy billet receivers that cost more for them to have that more satin finish. Buy the forged parts. You need a reliable and functional gun. For those of you with cash to spare and build guns to make them look and have a great external finish, buy the billet receivers. Functionality from either type of receiver wont change and neither will the strength of the metal.

[:)] Will

JoshAston
16 October 2014, 02:54
I wouldn't shoot supersonic anything out of a can. Watched a guy I knew shoot 5.56 supersonic out of a 9mm can, didn't end well. The osprey however, is rated for 300 subsonic

Pistol cans will handle supersonic 9mm just fine. And any rifle can will handle supersonic whatever caliber it's rated for.

WHSmithIV
16 October 2014, 03:39
Building an AR in 300Blk/Wsp. Started with a Mega billet lower, Cmmg lower parts kit, Magpul K2 grip, Phase 5 ebrv2, Odin Works xmr, and KNS mod ST anti walk pins. Have a mega trigger and billet upper, plus BAD enhanced pins on the way. Know for a fact I'm going with a geissele Mk8, more than likely getting an Ace hammer stock, and at some point upgrading the Mega to an Elftmann tactical service trigger. Planning on an SRC bcg and relia-bolt, Yankee Hill diamond fluted 16" barrel, and magpul pro sights. I've been told that my parts list is enough to let on that this is my first build, but I figure that I might as well go all out on something like this. My question though, is does this seem like a solid set up? shoul anything be changed? I'm pretty n00bish, so any help really would be awesome guys.

As you get into putting it all together, ask questions if you aren't sure how to do any specific thing. We can help you put it together right. Do you have the necessary tools and a bench vice? You need upper and lower vice blocks, a roll pin punch set, a small ball peen hammer, vice grips, electrical tape, an armorers wrench (or a barrel nut wrench and castle nut wrench). That's pretty much it. There are LOTS of videos on Youtube that you should watch before you put it all together if you have never built an AR before. That's what I did. I watched them and learned. Lots of the videos are useless too. So, you have the watch the right ones. The rifle I built for $506 in parts worked flawlessly.
-Will-

Edited:
If you need a castle nut wrench for the butt stock castle nut, let me know. I have an extra one and I'll send it to you.

TommyValkyrie
16 October 2014, 08:39
As you get into putting it all together, ask questions if you aren't sure how to do any specific thing. We can help you put it together right. Do you have the necessary tools and a bench vice? You need upper and lower vice blocks, a roll pin punch set, a small ball peen hammer, vice grips, electrical tape, an armorers wrench (or a barrel nut wrench and castle nut wrench). That's pretty much it. There are LOTS of videos on Youtube that you should watch before you put it all together if you have never built an AR before. That's what I did. I watched them and learned. Lots of the videos are useless too. So, you have the watch the right ones. The rifle I built for $506 in parts worked flawlessly.
-Will-

Edited:
If you need a castle nut wrench for the butt stock castle nut, let me know. I have an extra one and I'll send it to you.

I've got the lower and upper finished, minus the buffer tube back and anything forward of the receiver. Only had to use a hammer one time, for the roll pin on the bolt catch. Everything else I've just been able to pressure force into place. I've yet to torque anything, but I don't plan on it until I get my tools in the mail from midway.
I do honestly feel like .300BLK is the future of the AR platform. I've done vast amounts of research into every piece that I buy for this build, and when I had gotten to which barrel I was going to get, I realized that I hadn't picked a caliber, and proceeded into my mid life crisis. But in the end I feel like the blackout is more for what I'm looking for. I decided on doing a super budget build after this in 5.56, and then .308.
I do however want a Century C39.