Newbie question, yes I'll be THAT guy today

[KW900A]

Ok, I've done a little searching here but haven't found what I am after. I'm still a little new to the AR-15 game, my experience lies in long range bolt action shooting mostly. I try my best to find answers to my own questions, but sometimes that doesn't work out. Is there a good write up on here that breaks down all the components, what they look like, what they do and what the options are? I have a lower that I won in a local giveaway, and am wanting to build it to really learn the guns and have one of my own, but to be quite honest, some of the lingo is still a foreign language to me. I was hoping there was a thread here or a recommended page that would break it all down.

Thanks a bunch, I appreciate the knowledge

[velocity2006]

For your first AR-15 I would just go basic and spend the rest of your budget on ammo/optics. Most Mil-spec components from reputable vendors will serve your purpose just fine. Depending on what role you want the rifle to play will determine what kind of barrel setup your going to want. Kind of need more info to recommend anything.

Personally I would look at a PSA CHF upper for a first AR as they are very inexpensive for what you get (450ish if you find them on sale w/ bolt carrier group and charging handle included), you could also look at Aero Precision. If your looking for a bit more quality a tier above that I would say BCM or Daniel Defense. Going above that you would be into the high end component/dollar game and there are tons of options available (Umbrella, Noveske, Larue, Northtech, Rainier, Mega, Adcor, 2A, to name a few.)

[KW900A]

For me, just a target gun, and it will occasionally shoot critters. Something effective out to 200-300 yards primarily. I do want a FDE stock, grip and rail. 16-18 in barrel i am thinking. I shoot lefty so ambi parts on the reciever are a must for me. Safety at the very minimum. I had a discussion on here about a lefty upper, but not sure if its worth it for a first AR. I guess the options for the upper are whats really throwing me. Lots of internal choices, and there are further variances of each. Just a lot to take in. I'm certainly not against an assembled upper, but I'd still like to know/understand what I'm getting. I can't stand not knowing, it's just not me. Thanks

[UWone77]

With BCM providing free BCG's with their uppers, I'd look there first. Assembled upper is the only way to go if it's your first. The AR is not a complicated platform, but you will need to spend up to a few hundred dollars on the proper tools if you don't already have them. It's just not cost effective.

Basically any AR will be able to get you hits at 200-300 yards.

[Deckard]

I'm a lefty and handle a normal AR just fine without ambi controls. You should pick up a BCM upper (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-Upper-Receiver-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw.htm) since they're coming with a bolt carrier group (BCG). BCM makes some of the best uppers out there. Then pick up a stock kit from BCM also, it comes with a buffer tube, spring, buffer, and end plate. G&R sells triggerless Colt Lower Parts Kit (LPK's) and add an ALG ACT or QMS trigger to that.

I used this in the past when I was completely new to AR's http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8343/25301.html

[KW900A]

I have not checked out BCM, but will thanks. If nothing else I want the ambi safety so I can flick the safety on and off easily. Out at our farm I can easily set up for 500 yard shots, (600 depending where we have cows turned out) but I don't expect to reach that far with a .223 on a somewhat basic setup. I could be wrong.

Soooo many choices.

Thanks for sharing the link!

[VIPER 237]

With BCM providing free BCG's with their uppers, I'd look there first. Assembled upper is the only way to go if it's your first. The AR is not a complicated platform, but you will need to spend up to a few hundred dollars on the proper tools if you don't already have them. It's just not cost effective.

Basically any AR will be able to get you hits at 200-300 yards.

BCM has the best value out there right now, and even though it's your first it's worth spending slightly more to get higher quality. As far as an ambi selector the Battle Arms Development models are hands down the best out there, and they make a short throw model that is a necessary upgrade on all of my rifles. A decent shooter with proper optics should have no issues hitting at 500 with a 16" barrel. A geissele trigger does help of course ;)

[BP_Z28]

My first AR was built about a month ago. Like you was over whelmed by the options.

I chose to go with BCM for my upper. Top notch, great customer service and the reviews were great. Everything checked out fine .

I went with 16", YHM mid length hand guard and I believe it came out to $588 shipped. Really hard to pass up the deal from everything you get. would not change a thing about the complete upper. I wanted to make this rifle the "do it right the first time" motto (sorta speaking)

Don't rush into it. Map it all out. I had a set price about $850 for my build. I exceeded and built mine for $1429 (including cerakote, optics, etc etc).

What I did was view topics of ARs. Detailed build lists and decided what I want. A lot of companies have deals which will include free shipping, 10% off.. Even discounts on blemished parts (this is where the big savings are at).

How much are you looking to spend?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KW900A]

^^ I agree 100% I don't mind at all paying a little extra to get it right the first time. I just don't want to unnecessarily overdo it. I'll have plenty of chances to do that later

[Ride4frnt]

I have not checked out BCM, but will thanks. If nothing else I want the ambi safety so I can flick the safety on and off easily. Out at our farm I can easily set up for 500 yard shots, (600 depending where we have cows turned out) but I don't expect to reach that far with a .223 on a somewhat basic setup. I could be wrong.

Soooo many choices.

Thanks for sharing the link!

You'd be surprised. With the right setup, 500-600yds can produce hits pretty easily. Not saying you'll shoot 1" groups, but hitting a person sized target shouldn't be difficult.

[FortTom]

Ok, I've done a little searching here but haven't found what I am after. I'm still a little new to the AR-15 game, my experience lies in long range bolt action shooting mostly. I try my best to find answers to my own questions, but sometimes that doesn't work out. Is there a good write up on here that breaks down all the components, what they look like, what they do and what the options are? I have a lower that I won in a local giveaway, and am wanting to build it to really learn the guns and have one of my own, but to be quite honest, some of the lingo is still a foreign language to me. I was hoping there was a thread here or a recommended page that would break it all down.

Thanks a bunch, I appreciate the knowledge

KW900A,
A lot of good advice here as far as your question(s) and your honesty.

Now, a bit off topic, I've never seen anyone on this forum chastised for being a "Newbie" with questions. There has to be at least 1000 man years of experience here, probably much more. But we all started at the same point you are at. Maybe different circumstances, some of us were GI's, some LEO's or private contractors, but none of us were born with the manual up our butts. And you'll not be THAT GUY for being honest and saying "I need a little help here". In fact most people will be eager to help you. You might even get a little information overload.[:)]

[Thompson]

I do want a FDE stock, grip and rail. 16-18 in barrel i am thinking. I shoot lefty so ambi parts on the reciever are a must for me. Safety at the very minimum.
If you want all that in FDE, Magpul makes some awesome polymer accessories as you've listed (or as we call "furniture"). As VIPER said, Battle Arms Development makes quality ambi safeties. Actually if you go to their website, they also have a special Magpul FDE ambi safety on sale. Also, just to point out, there's 2 types of BAD safeties. One is the traditional one seen on a lot of ARs, the throw is at 90 degrees. The one VIPER mentioned, the short throw, is at 50 degrees.

Also, do you have a stripped (completely bare) lower? Or did it also come with a parts kit or anything like that?

Side note: Do you get the free BCG with a stripped upper? I thought it was with a complete upper.

[KW900A]

Ok first off thanks FortTom... I was not really concerned about being chastised, but have no issues laughing at myself when I am presumably in a room full of people with more knowledge than me on this topic. But everyone I have encountered here has been courteous and helpful, I hope to learn more and no doubt will have more questions. I'm just a hobbyist...

To answer a couple of questions... My lower is a stripped DSA multi caliber.

I'm trying to keep this around the $1000 mark

I will do some more research on the recent suggestions... I honestly had no idea this many reputable companies were in this market, and its good to be around people in the know. Thanks again!

[UWone77]

With prices the way they are right now,

I'd just put the DSA lower on the shelf and buy a Colt 6920 or a 6720.

If you insist on building the lower, I'd go with the mentioned BCM upper.

I guarantee this won't be your last AR purchase. Just get a good baseline rifle and shoot the piss out of it. Then decide what you really need. I keep saying this over and over to save the new shooters to this platform money.

[KW900A]

I guess you make a good point. K.I.S.S. until I figure out what I like. Really hadn't considered that.

Side note... I do love my .308's and at some point intend to build a kickass one as well

[UWone77]

I guess you make a good point. K.I.S.S. until I figure out what I like. Really hadn't considered that.

Side note... I do love my .308's and at some point intend to build a kickass one as well

The nice thing about the Colt... you'll get your money back out of it, should you decide to ditch it later. You can't say that with a home build. I wish I would have started out with a nice baseline rifle from the beginning. It would have saved me thousands and a lot of time. $850ish for a Colt is still insane to me.

[Ride4frnt]

I guess you make a good point. K.I.S.S. until I figure out what I like. Really hadn't considered that.

Side note... I do love my .308's and at some point intend to build a kickass one as well

Get your feet wet with 5.56 first. I agree with UW. Buy a colt first, or bare minimum, complete upper and build your lower. My first was a complete Bushmaster HBAR. Bare bones, carry handle, a2 post, etc. shot it a lot, learned the platform. Second ar was a spikes stripped lower I built with a PSA mil spec parts kit, put a complete spikes 14.5" upper on it. That's the gun I shoot the most. Very KISS rifle, magpul furniture, vortex red dot, just a lot of fun to shoot. I've also built a 18" SPRish gun that I'll finally get to shoot this weekend, but it's more of a mid-long range bench gun that will be shot on a bipod most of the time. Have also built a .300blk for deer, but the novelty of the round has really worn off on me. Maybe when I get a can and start reloading it'll reignite the flame.

Point is, get your feet wet. Learn what you like, upgrade from there. Go to the range, if you see people there with AR's, ask them about them, you may see something you like yourself. I know some people aren't as nice as the guys on here, but speaking for myself, if someone at the range sees my guns and asks about them I'll talk their ears off. If they wanna shoot them, go for it.

If you go the complete upper route, IMO, a 14.5" barrel with pinned muzzle device and mid length gas system cannot be beat.

ETA: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-14-5-Mid-Length-Group-s/135.htm

As has been said, the price of these is hard to beat. A 14.5" middy with a pinned battlecomp would be primo for a first rifle!

[KW900A]

Ok, can someone enlighten me on the rules regarding pinned/unpinned uppers? I assume this mainly affects whether or not the barrel would be able to accept a suppressor? I was browsing uppers on PSA and found one I liked, but since its unpinned NFA rules apply. Does this mean more hoops for me to jump through? I'm a virginia resident, and we are a pretty gun friendly state.

There is a pretty good tactical gun shop close to me than can help me with details whenever necessary. Lots of times it's more convenient to look here first.

[Ride4frnt]

Ok, can someone enlighten me on the rules regarding pinned/unpinned uppers? I assume this mainly affects whether or not the barrel would be able to accept a suppressor? I was browsing uppers on PSA and found one I liked, but since its unpinned NFA rules apply. Does this mean more hoops for me to jump through? I'm a virginia resident, and we are a pretty gun friendly state.

There is a pretty good tactical gun shop close to me than can help me with details whenever necessary. Lots of times it's more convenient to look here first.

Pinned or unpinned refers to barrel length. In order to be a rifle the barrel has to be over 16". That means you need a >16" barrel, or a barrel with a muzzle device pinned and welded to it to make it overall longer than 16", I.e. 14.5" with a pinned 1.5" muzzle device is 16" and legal. Shorter than that and the gun is a SBR, meaning it needs to be registered with NFA paperwork. The exception is with a AR pistol, having no stock, you can have a barrel as short as you want, since it's technically not a rifle...

[KW900A]

Gotcha

Do some of these places offer pinning as an option for otherwise unpinned uppers? The one that jumped out at me was 14.7

[Ride4frnt]

Gotcha

Do some of these places offer pinning as an option for otherwise unpinned uppers? The one that jumped out at me was 14.7

Most places should offer pinning and welding, or your local gunsmith can do it. It's not a hard process for a competent smith, and it's not illegal for you to own in an unpinned configuration, you just can't mate the upper to a rifle lower legally without it behind pinned and welded. If you were to order a 14.5 or 14.7 upper that doesn't come with a muzzle device, or isn't permanently affixed, your local shop should be able to pin it for a small fee.

[Ride4frnt]

Also, about your suppressor comment. Same applies. A lot of suppressors are QD threaded to the muzzle device. By buying a compatible muzzle device and having it welded on, you could still run a suppressor. Example, buy a AAC 51t muzzle device and have it welded, you can attach the compatible AAC suppressors to it.

[Eric]

The nice thing about the Colt... you'll get your money back out of it, should you decide to ditch it later. You can't say that with a home build. I wish I would have started out with a nice baseline rifle from the beginning. It would have saved me thousands and a lot of time. $850ish for a Colt is still insane to me. Exactly.
$875 for the LE6920 MOE version. (http://grabagun.com/colt-mfg-co-inc-le6920mpb-car-5-56-16-1-30rd.html) A factory carbine from Colt is a solid starting point. Run it and then figure out if you want to change it up.

[KW900A]

I am certain the shop here can do that with no issues. Just to order one, and have it shipped to me would not require extra work, or will it? If I understand correctly, I have to have the NFA paperwork to own the assembled gun (which I do not intend to do). Just making sure I could order it, and carry it to my local shop without any hassle.

Ride4frnt, A suppressor is something I would like to get sometime, while as a civilian, I still can. That's an entirely different set of questions. I'm not at that point yet, so I haven't even looked into it. I know the local shop here is pretty well versed in that area, so I should have no issues with that when the times comes.

Eric, thanks for the colt link. Considering that's a gun ready to rock for the price of half the uppers I have looked at, it's hard to knock that idea.

(this was supposed to be attached to the answer about pinning, but didn't work for some reason)

[DutyUse]

No you wouldn't have any hassle with an unpinned upper as long as you don't have it attached to a lower. In fact just keep the lower seperate,

[UWone77]

Here's another option you can do:

Aero Precision complete Lower $180

http://aeroprecisionusa.com/aspx/sto...l.aspx?pid=321

BCM Complete Upper with Free BCG and Mod O Comp $439:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-14-5-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-14.htm

OR:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M...-urg-m4-16.htm

This is the carbine version, they were out of Middy 16's

Charging Handle $20
MOE/SL Handguards $30

$669 plus transfer on the Lower

Personally, I like 16" uppers for new shooters to the platform. If you don't like the muzzle device, you can swap it out. If you don't like the hanguards, you can swap them out. Otherwise, after you pin and weld, you are stuck. That's a pretty expensive mistake if you decide to change anything.

[VIPER 237]

Personally, I like 16" uppers for new shooters to the platform. If you don't like the muzzle device, you can swap it out. If you don't like the hanguards, you can swap them out. Otherwise, after you pin and weld, you are stuck. That's a pretty expensive mistake if you decide to change anything.

Exactly, a pinned upper is one of the worst ideas for a shooter who isn't sure exactly what they want as far as hand guard/muzzle device.

[KW900A]

Thanks UWone77, that second bcm link is dead for me though. I have a little notebook with a ton of info and ideas... And prices... Haha

I'm in on sticks giveaway, so I am holding off on any purchases on the off chance I am lucky enough to snag something. Words can't even describe how awesome all that came together. I know you are one of the ones working behind the scenes, thanks for that too!

I am going to check with my local shop here on those colts and any other entry level platforms they offer. I think starting out, it's wise to keep it at 16"+

I've learned stuff just in this thread I wasn't even aware was there to know!

[GOST]

Check your local Wal-Mart for Colts. Mine a couple of months back had a 6920 Magpul edition for I think $850.

[southernborne]

Theres some realy good advise here, only wish I would have joined sooner... I bought a Seekins gen2 upper & lower and at the risk of sounding silly, Where do you get the screw in pins?

[Thompson]

Check your local Wal-Mart for Colts. Mine a couple of months back had a 6920 Magpul edition for I think $850.
They still sell AR-15s at such a disgusting establishment such as that? I thought they said they were removing them from inventory after Newtown?

[Ride4frnt]

Theres some realy good advise here, only wish I would have joined sooner... I bought a Seekins gen2 upper & lower and at the risk of sounding silly, Where do you get the screw in pins?

Trigger pins? Made by KNS precision. Almost any online retailer should sell them.

[WHSmithIV]

I'll weigh in on this for you.

First the basics. The AR 15/ M16 is a very simple design. For the commercial AR basic civilian rifle there are less than around 100 parts and most of them are in the lower receiver.

Here's a direct link to an exploded AR15 diagram. http://gunpartsplus.com/ar-15-diagram/

Now, how does it work? Well, that's pretty simple. First, think of a traditional bolt action, magazine fed rifle. You pull the bolt back, a spring pushes up a cartridge, you close the bolt and fire the rifle. The action of opening the bolt cocks the hammer of the rifle. Lever action, tube fed rifles do the same thing. The tube is the magazine.

The AR uses that very same feeding mechanism. The bolt is pulled back by a handle called the charging handle. When you pull the bolt back, it comes back against the buffer and buffer spring that are in a tube in the stock. That spring pushes the bolt forward and feeds the cartridge that came up from the magazine (pushed up by the spring in the magazine) into the chamber of the barrel. Pulling the bolt back also cocks the hammer in the lower receiver. The safety is simply a small lever that when rotated to safe blocks the hammer from falling. Just like in most any other rifle.

So, if you're with me so far, here's how the semi automatic function works. If you look at the exploded diagram, you'll see a tube along the top of the barrel. There is a small hole on the top of the barrel. The front sight of the original AR15/M16 has a hole that mates to the hole at the top of the barrel and is a block of metal with a hole for that tube along the top of the barrel. There is a 90 degree mating for the hole for the tube and the hole that mates to the hole at the top of the barrel. That tube mates to a small tube on the top of the bolt at the other end of it. When the rifle is fired, expanding gasses from the firing of the cartridge go up the hole at the top of the barrel, into the tube and back to the bolt forcing the bolt backwards. Some of the gasses from firing the cartridge are now doing what was the manual job of pulling the bolt back to load a cartridge. The small spring loaded clamp that clips onto the cartridge on the bolt pulls the empty casing out, releases as the bolt comes back spitting the empty cartridge our the ejection port, the bolt keeps going back from the pressure of the gasses against the buffer and spring in the stock and as it passes back past the magazine, a new cartridge comes up pushed by the spring in the magazine. The spring in the stock pushes the bolt forwards again and the new cartridge is pushed into the chamber and the rifle is ready to fire again because as the bolt came backwards the hammer was cocked again.

That's it in a nutshell.

So, the semi auto function is very simple and easy to understand. For military weapons with 3 round burst and fully automatic functions the differences are with the trigger assembly. The 3 round burst mode uses a cam that rotates and automatically allows the hammer to fall for 3 positions with one full rotation of the cam. After the 3rd time the hammer falls it requires the trigger to be pulled again for the rotation to start again.

The best way to understand how the rifle works and see how the parts all go together is really to build one. Install the lower parts kit and you'll understand what the small springs and detents are used for as well as the pins. Watch some of the youtube videos on how to put it together. It's so easy that really a 10 or 12 year old can do it. If you have more questions, feel free to ask them. There really is no such thing as a stupid question when it comes to someone asking 'how to do' something providing that they are asking the question honestly.

[Thompson]

. It's so easy that really a 10 or 12 year old can do it. If you have more questions, feel free to ask them. There really is no such thing as a stupid question when it comes to someone asking 'how to do' something providing that they are asking the question honestly.
Especially because you don't want to end up messing up the assembly process and causing your rifle not to work, or in worser cases - damage the rifle or even injure yourself (ie: improper headspacing). If I understand this correctly, basically this means that the distance from the chamber to the bolt face is out of the acceptable range -(for example) which means that if the bolt is not fully locked in place, it can cause an out of battery discharge. What this means is that the bolt can prematurely unlock due to the extremely high chamber pressure - and essentially give you a bad day.

... not to divert the thread too much, but how does the 3 round burst work? I've still been trying to figure it out. I know how FA/RDIAS works - just not the mechanism for burst.

[KW900A]

Thanks for that link WHSmith

Considering what Thompson said... For a novice such as myself, is it easy to screw something up in the lower assembly and unknowingly put myself in a position for a bad day? I'm a very mechanically detail oriented person because of my job, and I love just knowing the mechanics of anything. But we all can make mistakes.

[alamo5000]

Ok, I've done a little searching here but haven't found what I am after. I'm still a little new to the AR-15 game, my experience lies in long range bolt action shooting mostly. I try my best to find answers to my own questions, but sometimes that doesn't work out. Is there a good write up on here that breaks down all the components, what they look like, what they do and what the options are? I have a lower that I won in a local giveaway, and am wanting to build it to really learn the guns and have one of my own, but to be quite honest, some of the lingo is still a foreign language to me. I was hoping there was a thread here or a recommended page that would break it all down.

Thanks a bunch, I appreciate the knowledge


I am finishing my first build this week some time. I was in your shoes not long ago.

I will do my best to help steer you. From noob to noob I can say I have learned a whole lot by putting one together from scratch.

[KW900A]

I am finishing my first build this week some time. I was in your shoes not long ago.

I will do my best to help steer you. From noob to noob I can say I have learned a whole lot by putting one together from scratch.

Thanks, never hurts to have help! With the holidays coming, my gun spending on this subject is taking a hit. But I've read, and read. I think I have followed up on every link/product/company/retailer mentioned in this thread (some multiple times) and created quite a list of bookmarks. Good thing research is free... Cruising around this forum and learning is a pretty fun time!

[KW900A]

Well I think I'm going with UWone77's advice that was agreed upon by many, and makes sense. The local co-op runs 0% 12 month financing through the end of the year. I was in there yesterday pistol shopping, and noticed they had a lot of AR's for $600-$800, I think I will head back up there when I get time and check them out and take advantage of the offer and get my foot in the door with the AR platform. I didn't pay much attention the the brands they had, since I was on a mission yesterday. Are there any brands out there I should avoid or be leery of?

[UWone77]

Well I think I'm going with UWone77's advice that was agreed upon by many, and makes sense. The local co-op runs 0% 12 month financing through the end of the year. I was in there yesterday pistol shopping, and noticed they had a lot of AR's for $600-$800, I think I will head back up there when I get time and check them out and take advantage of the offer and get my foot in the door with the AR platform. I didn't pay much attention the the brands they had, since I was on a mission yesterday. Are there any brands out there I should avoid or be leery of?

I'd just take a mental note of what brands they have and come back and let us know.

[KW900A]

I'd just take a mental note of what brands they have and come back and let us know.

Will do, wish I had more time yesterday, but had a schedule to keep. Hopefully I'll be able to make it back over next week.

[Kopis]

I have not checked out BCM, but will thanks. If nothing else I want the ambi safety so I can flick the safety on and off easily. Out at our farm I can easily set up for 500 yard shots, (600 depending where we have cows turned out) but I don't expect to reach that far with a .223 on a somewhat basic setup. I could be wrong.

Soooo many choices.

Thanks for sharing the link!


Unless you're a lefty, the ambi safety is the most worthless mod you can do. You'll simply never use it. It does look "tacticool" though!

[Computalotapus]

Unless you're a lefty, the ambi safety is the most worthless mod you can do. You'll simply never use it. It does look "tacticool" though!


I am a righty and I used the poop out of my ambi. Its how you train with your tools on if you use them to the fullest or not at all. Took me about 4 months of forcing myself to use it, now I don't even think about it and use it all the time.

[KW900A]

Where can I find a good LPK with an ambi safety?

Still haven't had a chance to go look at the off the shelf guns I was talking about. Pretty much been working and sleeping for theist two weeks.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Where can I find a good LPK with an ambi safety?

Still haven't had a chance to go look at the off the shelf guns I was talking about. Pretty much been working and sleeping for theist two weeks.

Ironworks tactical has the build your own LPK. They allow you to leave out the extra parts you'll never use and add the extras you want like ambi controls, triggers and so forth.

[Thompson]

I'm not sure if the company sells their safeties with a LPK, but if you're willing to fork over some dough for a nice ambi safety - check out Battle Arms Development.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

http://shop.ironworkstactical.com/Customizable_lower_parts_kit_LPK_p/aoi-lpk.htm

[KW900A]

Thanks CMMG is all I really know about, I can buy them here in town, but not with ambi controls

[CK 187]

This is a great thread. A lot of cool guys that are more than willing to help out

[CK 187]

Unless you're a lefty, the ambi safety is the most worthless mod you can do. You'll simply never use it. It does look "tacticool" though!

I disagree. While i am a lefty as a matter of fact, I know plenty of right handed guys that practice weak hand drills and other positions/variations that make the ambi very viable. It's just another option, so i say why not?

[Ordnance]

I disagree. While i am a lefty as a matter of fact, I know plenty of right handed guys that practice weak hand drills and other positions/variations that make the ambi very viable. It's just another option, so i say why not?

Exactly. Also, at a lot of matches/comps they'll often have stages which force you to swap to weak hand, plus for some like me I'm one of the few that actually use my trigger finger for flipping the selector when I'm taking certain shots. I know it's weird, but it works for me and several others I know.

[KW900A]

This is a great thread. A lot of cool guys that are more than willing to help out

It has been a big help to me, and others I'm sure. The knowledge here is a bit overwhelming at times, but I appreciate every bit of it.

I have shot enough to know the ambi safety is a must for me. Otherwise I can deal with a right handed gun.

[CK 187]

It has been a big help to me, and others I'm sure. The knowledge here is a bit overwhelming at times, but I appreciate every bit of it.

I have shot enough to know the ambi safety is a must for me. Otherwise I can deal with a right handed gun.

Same here. I can "deal" with a right handed weapon, but why if i'm not forced too? If there's an option that makes manipulation and acquisition easier, then i say go for it. Work smarter, not harder

[KW900A]

I did get to shoot one with an ambi safety this weekend. I loved it, it was a polymer gun though, it was very light but maybe a bit too light. I actually had trouble steadying it. A gun that light takes getting used to.

[KW900A]

Ok need an honest opinion. I'm very seriously looking at this upper from PSA. $300 fully assembled with free shipping. With iron sights I think it would be a good jumping off point to get the feel for things.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies/ptac-16-mid-length-5-56mm-1-7-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html

Thanks in advance!

[UWone77]

Ok need an honest opinion. I'm very seriously looking at this upper from PSA. $300 fully assembled with free shipping. With iron sights I think it would be a good jumping off point to get the feel for things.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies/ptac-16-mid-length-5-56mm-1-7-upper-with-bcg-and-charging-handle.html

Thanks in advance!

I would stay far far away from the PTAC line.

[KW900A]

I would stay far far away from the PTAC line.

Really? Why is that?

What about the CHF?

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I would stay far far away from the PTAC line.

I second that. You haven't seen sloppy until you've seen ptac. I've since quit getting any PSA parts, even tough I hade some stashed. The few components I had got gone very quickly. The difference could be seen and felt...

[Stone]

You get what you pay for. 299 for a complete upper, sheesh. But then again psa is home to the 39 dollar lower. Saving money in life is not a bad thing but cutting corners on gun parts may end up going really bad.

[Stone]

Unless you're a lefty, the ambi safety is the most worthless mod you can do. You'll simply never use it. It does look "tacticool" though!


People really do themselves a disservice and handicap themselves by only shooting on one side of their body. Training should be 50/50. Learn to be as proficient on one side as the other...

[KW900A]

Ok thanks, I was under the impression their stuff was better quality than that. Ill keep looking, or just buy a gun off the shelf.

Thought I was onto something. Oh well...

[BoilerUp]

Ok thanks, I was under the impression their stuff was better quality than that. Ill keep looking, or just buy a gun off the shelf.

Thought I was onto something. Oh well...

I don't own any PSA or PTAC components, and I am a little cautious of the PTAC line in general, but the PSA "premium" stuff has a pretty good reputation on the interwebs and I would seriously consider them for a budget build. This isn't a recommendation, per se, but this is essentially the same but from their Premium line and costs a little more (by virtue that no BCG is included):

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/barreled-upper-assemblies/psa-16-mid-length-cmv-cl-stripped-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle.html

All the money for the upper receiver group generally goes into the barrel and handguards. The PSA premium barrels are made by FN and on the above models you are saving costs by sticking with cheap handguards which means the price seems good, but not "too good to be true".

But, if I was going to buy that, I'd seriously consider shelling out the extra for the BCM, which comes with a free BCM BCG right now (a promo) which is second to none (according to internet lore...I don't have one):

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm

None of the cool kids at the range will ever knock you for owning a Bravo Company upper.

Just one man's opinion...

[Stone]

"All the money for the upper receiver group generally goes into the barrel and handguards" That seems to have become the new standard. The barrel and BCG are the heart and soul of the rifle and is the one area where people should put their money into. I agree with the barrel part but the "handgaurd" should be secondary to a high quality BCG. IMO, Function and reliability should far out weigh aesthetics.

[BoilerUp]

I agree with the barrel part but the "handgaurd" should be secondary to a high quality BCG. IMO, Function and reliability should far out weigh aesthetics.

I agree with your prioritization, it's just that you can get a quality BCG for less money than a cheap free float handguard (at least right now!)

[UWone77]

I would not buy PSA products unless you actually know what you're looking at. To someone new to the AR market, all the terminology they use can be confusing. From their Premium, standard, and PTAC lines. You can't assume they use FN barrels for all of their guns, because they don't. Sometimes, it's hard to figure out what you're getting until it arrives. The PTAC line is their buget line, for $299 you're just rolling the dice. Who knows what you're getting. You might get lucky, and get one with no issues, but in this day and age in the AR world, no reason not to go with something that's a known quality. Such as the BCM upper, who are still offering free BCG's with a purchase of an upper.

[GOST]

^This^

BCM is still offering free a BCG with the purchase of an upper. And if you get a 16" upper you also get a BCM MOD 0 compensator free.

[KW900A]

I would not buy PSA products unless you actually know what you're looking at. To someone new to the AR market, all the terminology they use can be confusing. From their Premium, standard, and PTAC lines. You can't assume they use FN barrels for all of their guns, because they don't. Sometimes, it's hard to figure out what you're getting until it arrives. The PTAC line is their buget line, for $299 you're just rolling the dice. Who knows what you're getting. You might get lucky, and get one with no issues, but in this day and age in the AR world, no reason not to go with something that's a known quality. Such as the BCM upper, who are still offering free BCG's with a purchase of an upper.


I see, makes sense. I was thinking $300 was too good to be true, but you make a good point.

The bad thing (for me) is BCM gives you alot of options when you select an upper. It's a little intimidating, because looking at the upgrades... Me being a greenhorn, I don't always know IF I should upgrade or WHAT to upgrade to. Plus I hate bombarding you all with a bunch of how about this how about that questions. I was with a friend last night and we were watching the playoffs and 'shopping', he also is very fond of the BCM upper assemblies.

[UWone77]

What length barrel are you looking at?

[GOST]

This is the upper I recommended to a friend of mine.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-LIGHT-WEIGHT-KeyMod-KMR13-p/bcm-urg-mid-16elw-kmr13.htm

[KW900A]

What length barrel are you looking at?

16"

I want to go with a simple open sight platform to get familiar with the whole thing. That way I can get more involved on the 2nd

[KW900A]

I like that one gost

[GOST]

I'm civilian as can be so some of these other guys may have better info than me, but I don't think you can wrong with BCM. I run a lot of their parts and have great luck with their stuff. Their customer service is also great. That upper's balance makes it's swing weight feel a lot like a 14.5" upper, and if you built it yourself it would run almost a $1000.

[UWone77]

During the BCM sale, I bought a stripped 11.5" upper and that same KMR upper, but in 14.5" Flavor.

I like BCM's standard barrel offerings vs their hammer forged as I think the price point is better with the standard barrels as well as the fact, when's the last time you shot out a barrel?

[GOST]

I use their hammer forged barrels, but I doubt the chrome lining knows whether or not the steel underneath it is hammer forged or not.

[KW900A]

What's the advantage to chrome lining? Is it designed for higher use?

[GOST]

The chrome lining is harder than the steel underneath, which helps increase barrel life. It's also more corrosion resistant and easier to clean. Some say that a chrome lined barrel is not as accurate, but I've got some that are sub-MOA with match ammo.

[DutyUse]

During the BCM sale, I bought a stripped 11.5" upper and that same KMR upper, but in 14.5" Flavor.

I like BCM's standard barrel offerings vs their hammer forged as I think the price point is better with the standard barrels as well as the fact, when's the last time you shot out a barrel?

I agree with this, and I own 2 BCM BFH barrels. From now on I'll be buying BCM's ELW regular barrels.

[KW900A]

So I'm still poking around, looking at this and that.

I am operating on a little tighter budget than I was before. I found out right before Christmas that my wife is pregnant. Currently about 9 weeks in, due in August. This will be our first, so I have the, I assume normal, 'holy crap, I hope we can do this' thoughts running through my head. Despite the fact we decided to start trying, it still surprised me when it became real.

So anyway, that's my update. Back on topic. I just felt scaling back the money invested in my hobbies would be a good idea. But I am dying to get this first build moving again, I'm just an indecisive person. BCM is looking good, I have also looked at RRA, my brother in law has a RRA rifle and is very pleased with it. I also have done some reading on the radical arms upper assemblies that primary arms is dealing in. They are definitely budget minded, without a charging handle and BCG. But seem to be pretty well recieved on ar15.com. I'm not a member there, but google must be because it takes me there alot. Anyone here know anything about them?

If it wasn't for this news, I may have bought a colt off the shelf or something similar like was suggested. Buys its easier on my conscience to break the spending up some. Plus I get to learn the inner workings of the platform. So that in itself is a win for me.

[UWone77]

If you plan to cut your hobby budget, and you may not get another rifle or build anything in the near future, I think that's all the more reason to get a BCM.

BCM makes quality stuff, and it will serve you well, whether you take training classes, or just plink on the weekends. It would also be one of my top choices for home defense.

[KW900A]

If you plan to cut your hobby budget, and you may not get another rifle or build anything in the near future, I think that's all the more reason to get a BCM.

BCM makes quality stuff, and it will serve you well, whether you take training classes, or just plink on the weekends. It would also be one of my top choices for home defense.


Everyone here really talks up BCM, and it is hard to ignore. Let me ask you this, with the front sight mounted with the gas block on the BCM uppers I have been looking at and shown, can a different rail be put on later, such as a floating rail. Or will the block, sight and tube interfere with a later change? i know some rails are 2 piece, but many aren't. I have considered purchasing one without a rail, IF its something that can be changed later.

[UWone77]

Everyone here really talks up BCM, and it is hard to ignore. Let me ask you this, with the front sight mounted with the gas block on the BCM uppers I have been looking at and shown, can a different rail be put on later, such as a floating rail. Or will the block, sight and tube interfere with a later change? i know some rails are 2 piece, but many aren't. I have considered purchasing one without a rail, IF its something that can be changed later.

Sure, especially for a guy like you that wants to know how his gun works.

You can either shave down the front sight post, or you can just remove it and install a low profile gas block in its place.

[KW900A]

Ok, wasn't sure if that was a permanent install or not. So I could put a low profile block on and then move to a longer rail even at some point then, and then mount a different front sight?

[KW900A]

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm <--- going with this one

https://www.primaryarms.com/Troy_Industries_9_Inch_Drop_In_Mid_Length_BattleRa _p/srai-mrf-d9ft-00.htm <--- This is a 9" mid length drop in rail, am I missing anything there, or is it truly a drop in that I can install easily?

When I select a CH, what sets them apart?

[Gaspipeshooter]

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm <--- going with this one

https://www.primaryarms.com/Troy_Industries_9_Inch_Drop_In_Mid_Length_BattleRa _p/srai-mrf-d9ft-00.htm <--- This is a 9" mid length drop in rail, am I missing anything there, or is it truly a drop in that I can install easily?

When I select a CH, what sets them apart?

Honestly, I'd select one of the options for handguards/rails. Price is as good as buying off the street. Get the Magpul as a basic starting point for $26.95 and you can add accessory rails to it. As for charging handles, the higher the number, the smaller the release latch. I'm personally not a fan of anything bigger than the Mod 4. The Mod 5 is fairly small, close to a mil-spec latch, but nicer and more comfy on your fingers.

[KW900A]

I will likely to start. Just thinking more for down the road.

Thanks for the CH input

[Gaspipeshooter]

I will likely to start. Just thinking more for down the road.

Thanks for the CH input

It's no secret I am a fan of Midwest Industries products. They've always shipped promptly, answered any and all questions I bother them with on the phone, and have provided the best customer service I've encountered in my AR related dealings. You can go with any of their drop-in rail products and I'm sure you would be very happy with them. I put their SS Series on my AR pistol and the fit and finish are excellent. I've used the Gen 2 SS free float rails in various lengths on at least half a dozen other builds and been very happy with them.

[KW900A]

Ok, I'm looking at the magpul CTR stock, it says 'carbine' and also has mil and commercial spec, the description is a bit over my head. Will one of those work with the BCM 16" mid length upper?

http://store.magpul.com/category/83

Also looking at the CMMG LPK with the ambi safety, $85 dollars, I feel pretty good with them as the local shop deals almost solely in CMMG LPK's and consequently most of the guys I know here have CMMG LPK's and are happy with them

http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/55ca6b8.htm

*Edit looks like it depends on buffer tube, which I thought came with the stock, i think thats what was throwing me

[UWone77]

Ok, I'm looking at the magpul CTR stock, it says 'carbine' and also has mil and commercial spec, the description is a bit over my head. Will one of those work with the BCM 16" mid length upper?

http://store.magpul.com/category/83

Also looking at the CMMG LPK with the ambi safety, $85 dollars, I feel pretty good with them as the local shop deals almost solely in CMMG LPK's and consequently most of the guys I know here have CMMG LPK's and are happy with them

http://www.cmmginc.com/product_p/55ca6b8.htm

*Edit looks like it depends on buffer tube, which I thought came with the stock, i think thats what was throwing me

Yeah, I imagine you'll go with a quality Receiver Extension kit in Milspec. Make sure it's actually milspec, and not just milspec in dimension. I like the Rainier Arms kits as they come with 7075 receiver extensions, and H Buffers:

http://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-arms-milspec-buffer-tube-kit-coupon-code-sale

I like Weapon Outfitters LPK's, especially if you're going to add your own trigger. You can save some money by getting a LPK without a trigger. WO's LPK's are fully customizable as well.

[KW900A]

I was planning to go for a good mil spec tube. The aggravating thing currently, yesterday I was looking at stocks on brownells, and they have a sweet deal on a full magpul furniture kit in FDE for $90, but are out of stock on mil spec. So I'm going to have to do some more looking to see if I can find a similar deal.

I'm finally getting my finishing touches down an will probably start a build thread to post my progress soon!

[Gaspipeshooter]

I was planning to go for a good mil spec tube. The aggravating thing currently, yesterday I was looking at stocks on brownells, and they have a sweet deal on a full magpul furniture kit in FDE for $90, but are out of stock on mil spec. So I'm going to have to do some more looking to see if I can find a similar deal.

I'm finally getting my finishing touches down an will probably start a build thread to post my progress soon!

The main difference between the mil-spec and commercial buffer tubes from a function standpoint is the diameter. Commercial is a little larger diameter, therefore mil-spec stock don't fit, and a commercial spec stock will be sloppy on a mil-spec buffer tube. Some commercial tubes have sloped back ends as well, to help tell them apart. Drill further down, you get into material types, etc., but that's getting into deeper discussion. For a casual shooter, I doubt they will ever notice the difference or experience a problem between a 7075 alloy versus a 6061 alloy tube.

[UWone77]

The main difference between the mil-spec and commercial buffer tubes from a function standpoint is the diameter. Commercial is a little larger diameter, therefore mil-spec stock don't fit, and a commercial spec stock will be sloppy on a mil-spec buffer tube. Some commercial tubes have sloped back ends as well, to help tell them apart. Drill further down, you get into material types, etc., but that's getting into deeper discussion. For a casual shooter, I doubt they will ever notice the difference or experience a problem between a 7075 alloy versus a 6061 alloy tube.

Until you mortar your gun, and your tube breaks. Happens more often than you would think. Especially, those that put out tubes in milspec diameter only... what other corners did they cut?

[KW900A]

Well I found and ordered the magpul furniture kit in FDE from dsgarms.com, it was $99 with the mil spec buffer assembly included. I was unable to determine what alloy it was, but took a shot at it for the price. When it comes and I open the box I will post what I find. Hopefully it will suffice. Will I be able to see any specific details or marking to tell me what the alloy is?

[UWone77]

Well I found and ordered the magpul furniture kit in FDE from dsgarms.com, it was $99 with the mil spec buffer assembly included. I was unable to determine what alloy it was, but took a shot at it for the price. When it comes and I open the box I will post what I find. Hopefully it will suffice. Will I be able to see any specific details or marking to tell me what the alloy is?

The DSG ones are 6061.

[KW900A]

The DSG ones are 6061.

Haha go figure

I did save the link you have me from ranier though.

[GOST]

Make sure if you're wanting a mil-spec receiver extension that you get one that's extruded 7075. Like UW said a lot of manufacturers cut corners and their mil-spec extensions are only mil-spec in diameter. Some test have shown the 6061 extensions to be 40% weaker than their 7075 counter parts.

[UWone77]

Haha go figure

It's expensive to get 7075 vs 6061 tubes. I always spend the money for 7075, and believe me, no one is giving me free receiver extensions.

If you never take a class or run your gun hard, it won't disintegrate in your hands all of a sudden. [:D]

[KW900A]

Make sure if you're wanting a mil-spec receiver extension that you get one that's extruded 7075. Like UW said a lot of manufacturers cut corners and their mil-spec extensions are only mil-spec in diameter. Some test have shown the 6061 extensions to be 40% weaker than their 7075 counter parts.

I will still consider the 7075 tube, I am still content with the deal considering what the magpul parts would run separately.

[GOST]

Here's a complete BCM stock kit for $110. And it's receiver extension is 7075.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNFIGHTER-s-Stock-Mod-0-KIT-Black-p/bcm-gfsk-mod-0-blk.htm

[KW900A]

If you never take a class or run your gun hard, it won't disintegrate in your hands all of a sudden. [:D]

That's an experience I'm hoping to avoid! I'm feeling pretty good about the decisions I've made for this, and they have been driven alot by you all. I'm trying to do this on a conservative budget, and not cut corners to do so. Couple more purchases and I'm there. I have not purchased the upper yet. Is BCM pretty good on lead time for in stock items, or is there a bit of a wait?

[GOST]

BCM is good to go for their in-stock items.

[UWone77]

As KW900A if he knows what "mortaring you gun" means...[BD]

LOL...

I only mention it, because I had to do it several times the last training day I was out at.

[Gaspipeshooter]

Until you mortar your gun, and your tube breaks. Happens more often than you would think. Especially, those that put out tubes in milspec diameter only... what other corners did they cut?

Ask KW900A if he knows what "mortaring you gun" means...[BD]

[Gaspipeshooter]

LOL...

I only mention it, because I had to do it several times the last training day I was out at.

My point being, based on the totality of his circumstances, new baby on the way and all, I seriously doubt he is going to run a gun as hard as someone like you will. He'll be lucky to get to the range once every couple months, probably won't be taking any serious carbine classes for a few years, yada yada yada...

[KW900A]

My point being, based on the totality of his circumstances, new baby on the way and all, I seriously doubt he is going to run a gun as hard as someone like you will. He'll be lucky to get to the range once every couple months, probably won't be taking any serious carbine classes for a few years, yada yada yada...

Stop talking about me like I'm not here!!!

But you're pretty spot on in your observation...

Haha

No I don't know what mortaring is, I kinda have a guess but that's it, but feel free to enlighten me [:)]

I'll shoot at the farm when I get time, that's about it. I don't think any weapon I own gets run hard. My remington 700 .222 sees the most action.

[GOST]

I'll shoot at the farm when I get time, that's about it. I don't think any weapon I own gets run hard. My remington 700 .222 sees the most action.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with being a civilian who shoots at the farm, I'm one also.[:D]

[KW900A]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with being a civilian who shoots at the farm, I'm one also.[:D]

I love the arrangement!

[rob_s]

^^ I agree 100% I don't mind at all paying a little extra to get it right the first time.

This is an impossibility. Can't happen. The only guy that's happy with everything he bought for his "build" the first time around is the guy that bought the parts to look at them (and even that guy quickly falls out of love with his baby because:MOAR!).

If you're looking to shoot the gun, buy a basic gun and go shoot it. The parts I use for a competition gun are going to be different than the parts you want for plinking on the farm.

As strange as it sounds, the most cost-eefective solution is to buy a factory gun and replace parts as-needed.

[UWone77]

This is an impossibility. Can't happen. The only guy that's happy with everything he bought for his "build" the first time around is the guy that bought the parts to look at them (and even that guy quickly falls out of love with his baby because:MOAR!).

If you're looking to shoot the gun, buy a basic gun and go shoot it. The parts I use for a competition gun are going to be different than the parts you want for plinking on the farm.

As strange as it sounds, the most cost-eefective solution is to buy a factory gun and replace parts as-needed.

Which is strangely what we had suggested months ago, but I think he had already purchased some parts? I can't recall.

When Colts are still $850ish, go buy 2. [:D]

[KW900A]

It was suggested, and I seriously considered it for awhile, even went shopping and held a few. But since finding out we are pregnant, I just set a goal for myself to build the lower I won 2 years ago, learn the inner workings of it all and go from there.

Not trying to build the perfect gun my first time around, just a solid reliable one. Mods can come later, I've no doubt this will be my last.

[Gaspipeshooter]

It was suggested, and I seriously considered it for awhile, even went shopping and held a few. But since finding out we are pregnant, I just set a goal for myself to build the lower I won 2 years ago, learn the inner workings of it all and go from there.

Not trying to build the perfect gun my first time around, just a solid reliable one. Mods can come later, I've no doubt this will be my last.

I'm guessing you meant "I've no doubt this will NOT be my last". I'm going to give you props for looking at your personal big picture, and making the necessary adjustments to your plans to get it done. Will it be perfect the first go 'round? You already recognize that it won't. You also obviously realize that you don't have to buy all the latest "whale-jizz" encrusted parts to have a serviceable plinker. By adjusting your expectations to keep your build on track and moving forward you will LEARN about the gun platform in the process of building it. That's a perfect goal for your first build.

[KW900A]

Oh yeah "not" my last...!

Thanks man