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alamo5000
19 October 2014, 19:14
Since I have gotten a kick start on my AR build I would like to have a discussion on my next couple of logical components.

The first of which is an AR barrel. As this is going to be a key component I would like to learn a lot more than what I already know and possibly be steered in the right direction.

I am thinking I would like a 1:7 twist because I would like the option to shoot heavier grain bullets.

It must be 16" for this go around because I don't want to have to deal with pinning a brake or doing the NFA thing...but I could be persuaded otherwise if it's not too much of a hassle. Which would mean I could get a shorter rail as well.

And for sheerly cosmetic reasons, it needs to come in black.

I know there are several types of rifling in various barrels but I don't have a comprensive list, nor do I know if they would make a huge difference in my purposes.

Now let's rewind a bit...let me say what I am going to build and how I would like it to function.

I won a CMT upper (thank you thank you thank you! :) ) and I have already ordered a billet CMT lower.

For my rail I am going to invest in a Geissele SMR MK2 15.

I have yet to even consider a muzzle device, trigger, optic, or any of that. But I am trying to keep things focused on the barrel (for now).

My aim is to have an AR (with a reasonable optic) that will be a 100 yard gun. I want the option to reach out to 200 yards, but odds are I will never go beyond that mark. I do put a premium on better accuracy... which of course is also an ammo issue.

I am pretty keen on accuracy that said I am not really talking bench rest accuracy where I would be reloading each round...I would be shooting off the shelf ammo for the most part.

I know some types of rifling would potentially perform differently than others and some might be easier to clean than others...

I hear the term 'cold hammer forged' and 'chrome lined' but what are some other options? (this is designed to educate yours truly not stir up a debate)...

I was poking around the Rainier Arms website and they have 'match series' 'mountain series' 'select series' and 'ultra match'...

Some of that type of terminology gets kind of confusing...I know the bull barrels help with harmonics... those little micro quivers that happen when you pull the trigger can send a round far off way down range...but when we are talking 200 yards is it really an issue?

Please someone lay it all out there (to the best of your ability)....

(Side note: I want my barrel to be 5.56, not just .223)

Aragorn
19 October 2014, 20:42
I just typed up one of the longest, most informative posts I've ever written, and lost it.

I'll try and get it up again tomorrow.

WHSmithIV
19 October 2014, 21:40
Hmm.. I'll give you the best answers I can give you from all the research I did when building the one I built. You have a higher budget than I had. I built my entire rifle the way I wanted it for $506.62 based on what I could afford. Manufacturers make their own creative terms to justify the prices they charge for various products.

Let's start with barrels. Some barrel profiles and the amount of time of the technologies used require that manufacturers charge a higher price for them based mainly on how much machining has to be done for them. Government profile, bull barrel etc. Some barrels are made to be a light as possible. So, all that extra machining to make a minimum weight yet still reliably strong barrel costs more for the machine shop - it eats up their bits and lathes faster too - more metal to be shaved off. So, let's move on from that..

Next, lets go to barrel coatings/linings. There are 4 options here. 1) a stainless steel barrel. That is exactly what it is - a stainless steel barrel. It has been cut, bored and rifled and threaded for a muzzle device. There is no coating. These are also referred to as "in the white" barrels. 2) Phosphate coated barrels - these are just that - a phosphate coating has been applied to the surfaces of the barrel. The chamber won't have it. The chamber doesn't benefit much from a coating anyway and the chamber is part of the barrel extension, not the barrel. 3) Chrome lined barrels - for this type of barrel, the bore is drilled for just a tiny bit more than the caliber bullet. Then, a lining of hard chrome is applied to the interior bore of the barrel to provide a much harder surface that wears at a slower rate than pure steel. This means that the barrel will last for a few thousand more rounds passing through it before the rifling is worn down so much as to severely reduce the accuracy of bullets due to lack of spin on the bullet as it leaves the barrel. 4) (the last option) is a melonite or nitride treatment coating to the metal. Both of these processes are for all practical purposes the same. They just vary a little in the chemical acids used to achieve the same result. The process has been around for over a century and was used in Germany originally. Due to the costs of the chemicals and, more importantly, proper disposing of the old, used chemicals, it has taken a while for manufacturers to be able to gear up to use the process to commercially produce barrels. Nitriding a barrel changes the chemical molecular makeup of the surface molecules of steel and makes it very much harder than even chrome. The process is also cheaper to do than chrome lining once a company is geared up to be able to do nitride processing. The reality is that nitride barrels are the strongest and have the longest life of any others with the exception of titanium barrels.

So, lets move on to twist rate. The twist rate is the rifling of the barrel. How many inches of travel down the barrel will be required for the bullet to be spun one rotational revolution before it leaves the barrel? That provides the bullet spin during it's travel through the air and increases its accuracy as wells as flight distance. There are charts about this and it has been tested extensively. The most common bullet you get at the local ammo supply is a 55 grain bullet weight. That works best with a 1:9 twist rate. In 9 inches of travel down the barrel, the bullet gets one full spin on it. Heavier bullets like 69 grain bullets do much better with a 1:7 twist rate. In 7 inches the bullet gets one full spin. That makes those bullets rotate just a little slower during flight and gives them better accuracy due tot he weight of the bullet. 1:8 twist barrels are a compromise for the two others and will stabilize the widest range of bullet weights. Where 1:9 is best for lighter bullets, and 1:7 is best for heavier bullets for accuracy over distance, a 1:9 doesn't stabilize a heavy bullet for longer distance accuracy enough and a 1:7 twist over spins lighter bullets to where they can even break apart over distance in the air, a 1:8 twist barrel will provide the best overall performance. For the home AR, there is no doubt that 1:8 twist is the best option. 1:7 is good too, but don't plan on shooting 300 yards with a 55 grain bullet accurately.

As a side note, a 7.62x39 barrel is most usually rifled with a 1:10 twist rate. Much heavier bullet.

Cleaning is no different for any of the barrels.

If you have questions, feel free to ask them. That's what we are all here for. To help each other.

Triggers are another issue.. You'll likely have questions there for trigger pull weights, 2 stage vs. single stage for one. First define WHAT you need the rifle to do. Then design to your needs for it. Ask any questions you have and we'll all help you.

-Will-

Edited for correcting my typing errors.

WHSmithIV
19 October 2014, 21:42
I just typed up one of the longest, most informative posts I've ever written, and lost it.

I'll try and get it up again tomorrow.

Aragorn, I had probably started to do so before you did then my wife had dinner ready and I took a break for dinner. Hopefully I've saved you the effort of writing it again [:)]

alamo5000
19 October 2014, 21:52
Triggers are another issue.. You'll likely have questions there for trigger pull weights, 2 stage vs. single stage for one. First define WHAT you need the rifle to do. Then design to your needs for it. Ask any questions you have and we'll all help you.

-Will-


Thank you for the response so far. It does help a lot. I might go with 1:8 on the barrel but I will read more on it as it goes and choose later.

As for triggers, darn right I am gonna have some questions specific to AR triggers... but just not right now. I don't want to muddy the water. I guess I learn better when everything is on one topic and I can compartmentalize all that stuff.

Later on look for a thread about triggers LOL

As for ammo... as I have done with other firearms that I use... I have heard the phrase/thought to' pick a round and build a rifle around that'.... but needless to say once I get things going I will find the ammo I like and try to stock it for the long term. I don't like ammo shopping when everyone else is also ammo shopping.

It's more expensive upfront to do that but it all evens out in the end... that's been my habit and I don't see why an AR would be any different.

WHSmithIV
19 October 2014, 22:26
Just continue with this thread you started for all questions you have. IT will be easier rather than using new treads for everything. You have to compartmentalize when understanding how you want to build an AR. To build one from scratch you MUST have a bench vice or have one available to use and there are some tools you'll need. They don't cost a fortune. Use a different railed handguard that costs a little less than that Geissele one and you'll have the tools you need too. The Geissele handguards are really pricey but they aren't functionally any better than a Troy or Midwest Industries handguard or those available from several other high quality companies.

There is a pretty simple list of tools you're going to need to build an AR from scratch. The tools will cost you around $100. A few roll pin punches, a small ball peen hammer, upper and lower vice blocks (only the upper vice block is really needed), 4" vice grips, a roll of electrical tape, a barrel nut wrench, 'maybe' a torque wrench (most likely just a piece of pipe to fit over the barrel nut wrench for a little extra leverage - depends on the free float barrel hand guard) ... a castle nut wrench (if you use a barrel nut wrench and not a combo armorers wrench), a small screwdriver (if you are going to stake the castle nut for the buffer tube), a larger screw driver for the pistol grip screw and a simple couple allen wrenches or allen wrench set to have the small allen wrenches you'll need for any set screws. Do get yourself some 0000 steel wool also. That's the tools list.

UWone77
19 October 2014, 22:32
It's late, so I admit I skimmed the OP. What is your intended purpose of this rifle? HD, Weekend plinking, Training, ect? That will determine a lot of your responses.

As for Rainier's Site on barrels, here's a quick run down:

Select Barrels = Entry level match grade barrel, still has a 5.56 chamber.
Match Barrels = Mid Range match barrel. Uses .223 Wylde chamber
UltraMatch Barrels = Top of the line barrel using Shilen Blanks.

All are guaranteed to shoot sub-MOA with match ammo, well that's if the shooter does his part. Rainier likes to ask if you want to shoot quarters, nickels or dimes when asked about their match barrels.

The Mountain Series Barrels are hard use, military grade barrels. Cold Hammer Forged FN barrels with double chrome lining. I've been able to shoot 1.5 MOA groups with them. Not as accurate, but more accurate than most people including me.

WHSmithIV
19 October 2014, 22:42
You'll want a dab of moly grease (any automotive bearing grease will be just fine and all you need is a little dab of it) for installing the barrel and you can use a drop of blue loctite for the castle nut instead of staking the one thread.

After re-reading your original post, it really isn't going to matter which twist rate you use for a barrel. Even a 1:9 twist barrel is going to be accurate with up to around 69 grain bullets for 200 yards and most off the shelf ammo that's reasonable prices is going to be 55 grain bullet ammo anyway. I wouldn't want to take down a deer witha 55 grain bullet at 200 yards, but I live way out in the mountains. I prefer 69 grain bullet weights in my rifle for having to shoot wolves that try to attack our livestock but I still use my Lee Enfield .303 for hunting. I'm building a 7.62x39 AR to deal with predators.

What you REALLY need to do first is decide WHAT you need your AR to do. What do you want it for and what do you intend to use if for. Then, design it to your needs and desires. If you want visuals of how it will look in 3D, play around with Gunstruction - you can use it on your computer for free and just load the Unity Flash player for your browser to power it. You can design hundreds of thousands of different configurations to visualize and it's really easy to do.

Determine what you want and need first, then design to that. It's the only way to go when designing your custom rifle. You've won the upper receiver, you've ordered the lower receiver. Now you have your start. Where you go from there, the sky is really the limit.

Txfilmmaker
20 October 2014, 10:48
It's late, so I admit I skimmed the OP. What is your intended purpose of this rifle? HD, Weekend plinking, Training, ect? That will determine a lot of your responses.

As for Rainier's Site on barrels, here's a quick run down:

Select Barrels = Entry level match grade barrel, still has a 5.56 chamber.
Match Barrels = Mid Range match barrel. Uses .223 Wylde chamber
UltraMatch Barrels = Top of the line barrel using Shilen Blanks.

All are guaranteed to shoot sub-MOA with match ammo, well that's if the shooter does his part. Rainier likes to ask if you want to shoot quarters, nickels or dimes when asked about their match barrels.

The Mountain Series Barrels are hard use, military grade barrels. Cold Hammer Forged FN barrels with double chrome lining. I've been able to shoot 1.5 MOA groups with them. Not as accurate, but more accurate than most people including me.

Looks like Rainier is one of the better choices.

mustangfreek
20 October 2014, 16:58
My 18" rainier match barrel consttantly shoots under a moa with my handloads. I also have a new mega barrel sittin here i need to get out and shoot. It is suppose to have the same accuracy guarantee as the rainier barrels

alamo5000
20 October 2014, 17:48
It's late, so I admit I skimmed the OP. What is your intended purpose of this rifle? HD, Weekend plinking, Training, ect? That will determine a lot of your responses.

As for Rainier's Site on barrels, here's a quick run down:

Select Barrels = Entry level match grade barrel, still has a 5.56 chamber.
Match Barrels = Mid Range match barrel. Uses .223 Wylde chamber
UltraMatch Barrels = Top of the line barrel using Shilen Blanks.

All are guaranteed to shoot sub-MOA with match ammo, well that's if the shooter does his part. Rainier likes to ask if you want to shoot quarters, nickels or dimes when asked about their match barrels.

The Mountain Series Barrels are hard use, military grade barrels. Cold Hammer Forged FN barrels with double chrome lining. I've been able to shoot 1.5 MOA groups with them. Not as accurate, but more accurate than most people including me.

My "purpose" more than anything is to simply enjoy shooting sports. I am not a cop. I am not a soldier (I was unable to enlist due to a serious injury)... I live in the country and we all get together and shoot for fun. I am a far cry from some top secret operator, but more like a skeet shooter who wants to expand my horizons. That said I personally try to take my own shooting beyond the whole plinking of tin cans off the fence. I like hunting just as much as the next guy but the AR won't be for hunting. I have been invited more than once to be on shooting teams (amateur) so at some point I might give 3 gun a try.

Part of the reason why I haven't jumped into AR's before now is because it never really had that 'definition'. all in all it will be for fun. I do live in the country though so there is a chance for varmint/coyote/pig shooting etc, although later I might go for an AR10 for the pig thing.

The part that I enjoy about shooting isn't just making a bunch of racket and being satisfied hitting a frisbee. I like the science behind it. It wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility for me to give in and run a 3 gun course. Who knows until I try.

And of course there is always the prospect of home defense. But for sheer enjoyment it would probably be an 'accurate' plinker. But, I would probably keep all the rest of that stuff in mind.

On average (seeing how I can walk out into the back yard and shoot) I might go through anywhere between a magazine or two per week. If we have an event (IE BBQ/Skeet shoot/fun time out) I might go through 10 mags in an afternoon...

Don't make the assumption that I am some hotshot gunner... I am just doing this stuff for fun...That said every once in a while we do have some of the local cops out to the house and they shoot with us...just for fun...

Tyrannosaur
22 October 2014, 07:17
So the write up on barrels above was very informative. I have been saving for a new barrel and was pretty set in the Centurion arms 16" barrel. Then I saw and read about the new Mega arms SS nitride coated barrel. My question is which one in your opinions would be the better option, price aside. I know both will serve me well and I'll most likely die before I come close to shooting it out. Thank you in advance.

UWone77
22 October 2014, 07:32
My "purpose" more than anything is to simply enjoy shooting sports. I am not a cop. I am not a soldier (I was unable to enlist due to a serious injury)... I live in the country and we all get together and shoot for fun. I am a far cry from some top secret operator, but more like a skeet shooter who wants to expand my horizons. That said I personally try to take my own shooting beyond the whole plinking of tin cans off the fence. I like hunting just as much as the next guy but the AR won't be for hunting. I have been invited more than once to be on shooting teams (amateur) so at some point I might give 3 gun a try.

Part of the reason why I haven't jumped into AR's before now is because it never really had that 'definition'. all in all it will be for fun. I do live in the country though so there is a chance for varmint/coyote/pig shooting etc, although later I might go for an AR10 for the pig thing.

The part that I enjoy about shooting isn't just making a bunch of racket and being satisfied hitting a frisbee. I like the science behind it. It wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility for me to give in and run a 3 gun course. Who knows until I try.

And of course there is always the prospect of home defense. But for sheer enjoyment it would probably be an 'accurate' plinker. But, I would probably keep all the rest of that stuff in mind.

On average (seeing how I can walk out into the back yard and shoot) I might go through anywhere between a magazine or two per week. If we have an event (IE BBQ/Skeet shoot/fun time out) I might go through 10 mags in an afternoon...

Don't make the assumption that I am some hotshot gunner... I am just doing this stuff for fun...That said every once in a while we do have some of the local cops out to the house and they shoot with us...just for fun...

Sounds like any quality barrel will suit your needs. I personally like the Select line as it's affordable and a good shooter. Here's my review on it from about 4 years ago: http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?2723-Rainier-Arms-Select-5.56MM-Barrel


So the write up on barrels above was very informative. I have been saving for a new barrel and was pretty set in the Centurion arms 16" barrel. Then I saw and read about the new Mega arms SS nitride coated barrel. My question is which one in your opinions would be the better option, price aside. I know both will serve me well and I'll most likely die before I come close to shooting it out. Thank you in advance.

Well the Mega barrel is more precision oriented. Not to say that you can't be accurate with the Centurion Barrel. But the Centurion Barrel is more hard use, as it too is CHF double chrome lined. You'll get more life out of the Centurion barrel. If you're looking for more of a precision oriented rig, Mega would be the way I'd go. General duty/high round count I'd go with Centurion.

Tyrannosaur
22 October 2014, 07:55
Sounds like any quality barrel will suit your needs. I personally like the Select line as it's affordable and a good shooter. Here's my review on it from about 4 years ago: http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?2723-Rainier-Arms-Select-5.56MM-Barrel



Well the Mega barrel is more precision oriented. Not to say that you can't be accurate with the Centurion Barrel. But the Centurion Barrel is more hard use, as it too is CHF double chrome lined. You'll get more life out of the Centurion barrel. If you're looking for more of a precision oriented rig, Mega would be the way I'd go. General duty/high round count I'd go with Centurion.

Thank you for such a quick response. I've shot LWRC rifles which are nitride barrels, I just was wondering after I saw the Mega. Its newer so not much by way of reviews. Thank you again, I'm not an ace shot and won't be going for precision so I'll go the way of Centurion.

UWone77
22 October 2014, 07:58
Thank you for such a quick response. I've shot LWRC rifles which are nitride barrels, I just was wondering after I saw the Mega. Its newer so not much by way of reviews. Thank you again, I'm not an ace shot and won't be going for precision so I'll go the way of Centurion.

Centurion makes top notch stuff, but you should also look at the Rainier Mountain series barrels. Similar specs for about the same price. Lower if you find them on sale.

alamo5000
22 October 2014, 17:15
Thanks for so many replies! You guys are just awesome.

Now let me preface my comment with this: I am trying to learn, not be facetious. I am sure just about any half decent barrel would be fine for my target range so it could appear to some that I am over thinking this deal.

Here are some barrels that I have narrowed it down to... and I am wondering (or rather thinking out loud) on pros and cons.

Mega 556 16 inch barrel... (as stated above this is probably more of an accurate barrel, but then again we aren't even considering shooter error. (Accurate barrel in amateur hands isn't an accurate barrel)
1:8 twist

Rainier Select 16 inch
1:8 polygonal twist

Rainier Arms Mountain 16 inch
1:7 twist

I am price aware but I am not overly price sensitive. I won't pay $500 for a name brand, when I can get sort of similar results considering my skill level for $300. That said from what I understand a 1:8 twist is a decent medium that effectively stabilizes most of the ammo you get off the shelf. Truth be told when I started I was hell bent on a 1:7 twist because I thought (errantly) that it was superior. That said I am still not 100% sure on the real performance difference (assuming same ammo etc etc) between a 1:8 and a 1:7 twist.

I have also heard that polygonal rifling is also somewhat better, but I am not sure if it really is slightly more durable than the stiff ridges, peaks, and edges of traditional rifling. I mean does it "really" make that much difference in the short term or even over time of shooting?

As of right now the mega is in there because of the recommendation from above, and it's price point isn't that bad. I am kind of leaning more towards the rainier select polygonal rifling barrel...

The Mountain series is a mystery still. Is it simply just a much more hard use barrel designed say for gun ranges where a barrel will see A LOT of action? 1000 rounds a day 5 days a week can wear out anything... is that more of the 'sphere' of the mountain series???

Dstrbdmedic167
22 October 2014, 17:19
I'll throw a monkey in your wrench and add another maker that I consider a excellent barrel maker. AR Performance makes excellent barrels. I have several in different calibers and all are Sub MOA if I do my part and most of the time still are even if I don't. He uses a 223 Wylde chamber on his barrels. Just another one for thought b

WHSmithIV
22 October 2014, 22:29
Look at it this way.. How many rounds a year do you think you'll send down the barrel? 500? 1000? If you figure 1000 rounds a year, then a barrel good for 5000 rounds is going to last at least 5 years. A melonite / nitrided barrel is good for at least 10,000 rounds.

Since 'most' of the ammo you get off the shelf will be 55 grain bullets which are ideally suited for 1:9 twist rate, then you're best off to get a 1:8 twist barrel because it will shoot those 55 grain bullets just fine and also shoot bullets up to 75 or 77 grain weight just fine. The 1:7 twist barrels are best suited for bullets 62 grain in weight and above. That is not the most available off the shelf ammo though. A 1:7 twist barrel over spins a 55 grain bullet and it begins to become unstable in flight over distance. At 50 -100 yards it won't matter, going beyond the 100 yard mark though is where the wobbling starts to kick in for an overspun bullet.

1:8 twist is really the best choice because it stabilizes the widest range of bullet weights.

For the rifling, I doubt that polygon rifling is going to make much of a difference for the number of rounds you'll put through the barrel over the next 10 years. If you get a 1:8 twist melonited or nitrided barrel you're not likely to shoot the barrel out in the next 10 years. (melonite and nitride are the same process, they just vary a little with the acids used and there is no appreciable difference between either process - it has to do more with how a company sets up the chemical processing operation to put a barrel in the bath - the molecular change to the surface of the metal is pretty much identical in both processes).

So, don't go overboard with spending on your barrel, just get a good nitrided one in 1:8 twist is my recommendation. Granted, you can do what you want. It's your money and it's your gun you are building.

Ride4frnt
23 October 2014, 16:00
One thing I didn't see noted. I know you said you wanted a 5.56 chamber and not a .223 chamber. Don't get the wrong idea here; 5.56 can still be shot from a .223 wylde, which is what most match barrels use. I recently bought a Black Hole Weaponry barrel for my SPR. 18", poly grooved, wylde chamber. Even though I've only shot it once it's my favorite gun. Something about that rifle just feels right to me compared to the other ones. Not to say the components I used in my other guns are sub par, I just feel and attachment to this one.

ETA: Rainier select barrels are made by Black Hole Weaponry, just without the Wylde chamber. I'm by no means a great shooter, but I'm pretty happy with the results I got from my first day out with this rifle. With better ammo and more time behind it I'm certain it will shoot quarter, if not smaller, sized groups.

UWone77
23 October 2014, 16:54
A Cold Hammer Forged or quality button rifled barrel will easily provide 20-25k round service life. 10k or less on a stainless barrel.

Something to think about if you have 1 or 2 AR's and you take a class or two that run 1000-1200 rounds in 3 days. Couple that with a few 1k round days at the range, and the round count goes up quickly. If you stick with the platform long enough, I'm sure you'll have at least one of each. [:D]

Former11B
23 October 2014, 17:30
I think a Rainier Select Match medium contour (Medcon) barrel would be right up your alley. Not too expensive but superbly accurate given the shooter and the ammo work together. I run a 16" Select Match (not the MedCon...they are a hair lighter than the regular profile Select barrels I don't see on Rainier's site anymore) and get GREAT results with all weights of my handloaded ammo. I need to scrounge up some grouping targets. I even shot solid 1 MOA groups with PMC XTAC 62gr green tip.

For your purposes I don't think the performance increase and the extra $130 for an Ultra Match is going to be worth it for you

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3279


My "purpose" more than anything is to simply enjoy shooting sports. I am not a cop. I am not a soldier (I was unable to enlist due to a serious injury)... I live in the country and we all get together and shoot for fun. I am a far cry from some top secret operator, but more like a skeet shooter who wants to expand my horizons. That said I personally try to take my own shooting beyond the whole plinking of tin cans off the fence. I like hunting just as much as the next guy but the AR won't be for hunting. I have been invited more than once to be on shooting teams (amateur) so at some point I might give 3 gun a try.

Part of the reason why I haven't jumped into AR's before now is because it never really had that 'definition'. all in all it will be for fun. I do live in the country though so there is a chance for varmint/coyote/pig shooting etc, although later I might go for an AR10 for the pig thing.

The part that I enjoy about shooting isn't just making a bunch of racket and being satisfied hitting a frisbee. I like the science behind it. It wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility for me to give in and run a 3 gun course. Who knows until I try.

And of course there is always the prospect of home defense. But for sheer enjoyment it would probably be an 'accurate' plinker. But, I would probably keep all the rest of that stuff in mind.

On average (seeing how I can walk out into the back yard and shoot) I might go through anywhere between a magazine or two per week. If we have an event (IE BBQ/Skeet shoot/fun time out) I might go through 10 mags in an afternoon...

Don't make the assumption that I am some hotshot gunner... I am just doing this stuff for fun...That said every once in a while we do have some of the local cops out to the house and they shoot with us...just for fun...

alamo5000
23 October 2014, 18:44
Look at it this way.. How many rounds a year do you think you'll send down the barrel? 500? 1000? If you figure 1000 rounds a year, then a barrel good for 5000 rounds is going to last at least 5 years. A melonite / nitrided barrel is good for at least 10,000 rounds.

Since 'most' of the ammo you get off the shelf will be 55 grain bullets which are ideally suited for 1:9 twist rate, then you're best off to get a 1:8 twist barrel because it will shoot those 55 grain bullets just fine and also shoot bullets up to 75 or 77 grain weight just fine. The 1:7 twist barrels are best suited for bullets 62 grain in weight and above. That is not the most available off the shelf ammo though. A 1:7 twist barrel over spins a 55 grain bullet and it begins to become unstable in flight over distance. At 50 -100 yards it won't matter, going beyond the 100 yard mark though is where the wobbling starts to kick in for an overspun bullet.

1:8 twist is really the best choice because it stabilizes the widest range of bullet weights.

For the rifling, I doubt that polygon rifling is going to make much of a difference for the number of rounds you'll put through the barrel over the next 10 years. If you get a 1:8 twist melonited or nitrided barrel you're not likely to shoot the barrel out in the next 10 years. (melonite and nitride are the same process, they just vary a little with the acids used and there is no appreciable difference between either process - it has to do more with how a company sets up the chemical processing operation to put a barrel in the bath - the molecular change to the surface of the metal is pretty much identical in both processes).

So, don't go overboard with spending on your barrel, just get a good nitrided one in 1:8 twist is my recommendation. Granted, you can do what you want. It's your money and it's your gun you are building.


Thank you thank you thank you! This was a very informative reply. In all honesty I would put between 1000 to 2000 rounds per year through the barrel. That would be a pretty accurate estimate.

The whole logic on the 1:8 twist really does make a lot of sense. Sometimes getting beyond marketing hype and into 'real world....this is my use' kind of thinking is very challenging.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to shoot 300+ yards, but the cold hard facts are I live in a very very wooded area and the only place you could really get beyond an average of 200 yards is if you (pay) to shoot at a formal gun range. 95% of my shooting is not done indoors (except on rainy days a range up the road is 100 yards indoors)...but most of the time it's really a lot more fun to get the guys together, get a case of ammo and simply have fun with an occassional box of tannerite. I put the 200 yard (average) range on shooting simply because that is what is available. I can shoot 200 yards in the back yard down a fence line... but that's kind of par for most places where we go. I am simply being realistic on that (as I will also do when it comes to an optic)... No need for a 500 yard optic when there will be 300 trees between me and a 500 yard target.

Another thing that I see when (online) shopping are some barrels are on clearance and the price looks great but then I read the reviews and I see 'this stuff sucks, out of spec' over and over or whatever. Part of the problem that scares me off the AR platform is simply so much marketing hype. Weeding out the bull*** is kind of tough.

In all reality I am not completely loaded to where I can drop 10 grand, but I am not broke... just a regular guy looking for quality parts that will make my shooting experiences more enjoyable.

I am not at all brand loyal so to speak (although I am now sort of since CMT gave me an upper) and because I bought a lower from them... but in general I get flustered from the pox of too many choices.

alamo5000
23 October 2014, 19:05
I think a Rainier Select Match medium contour (Medcon) barrel would be right up your alley. Not too expensive but superbly accurate given the shooter and the ammo work together. I run a 16" Select Match (not the MedCon...they are a hair lighter than the regular profile Select barrels I don't see on Rainier's site anymore) and get GREAT results with all weights of my handloaded ammo.

This is in fact so far on my short list of barrels that I have been looking at. As I stated before (and if you can't tell) I over think a whole lot of stuff. :)

I see the prices on there but how am I going to know if I am getting screwed price wise? How will I know (other than sheer name brand) know that I am getting something in spec that will work? I think sticking to major manufacturers in my case is a good deal... I don't mind springing an extra $50 if it means I truly gain something by doing that. On the other hand I am not paying merely for a 'name'.

Another question I have is barrel contours. I have no idea why they have different contours and if this effects anything. I know some are dimpled, or are fluted to help cool the barrels (more surface area) but for me, I don't think that will make a huge difference for me. Hopefully i don't end up in some fire fight.

Not trying to sound like an ass, but if I build a decent rifle and I shoot the barrel out 2 years later... I can buy another barrel. It's just like a car. Eventually the windshield wipers wear out. That's routine stuff as far as I am concerned.

All that said, the overwhelming amount of choices simply scare me away from getting into this stuff. A barrel seems simple, but then again apparently it's not :)

And don't even get me started on triggers (yet). I want to discuss them too but for now I am staying right on task with the barrel thing until I can flesh that out and be relatively confident that I am not getting screwed over price wise or on something that's not what is right for me.

alamo5000
23 October 2014, 19:11
A Cold Hammer Forged or quality button rifled barrel will easily provide 20-25k round service life. 10k or less on a stainless barrel.

That barrel we are discussing (Rainier Select Medcon) says nothing about cold hammer forged...that one is on the short list, but I like the idea of longer life. As I said, I will most likely put 1000-2000 rounds a year if not more through the gun. As soon as I get a better job, more :)

Do you have any specific options that meet the 1. cold hammer forged 2. black 3. possibly polygonal (but who cares I guess) rifling in a 1:8 twist? (16") And it needs to be from a decent manufacturer... get nervous about off brand stuff. My school of thought is buy quality and that's one less thing to worry about... it doesn't have to be top gear just of decent quality.

I am not chichy on money, I just want a fair price. I don't want to get screwed, nor do I want to screw anyone else over. A fair price is mandatory.

Tyrannosaur
23 October 2014, 19:37
Centurion makes top notch stuff, but you should also look at the Rainier Mountain series barrels. Similar specs for about the same price. Lower if you find them on sale.

I will take a look. Rainier has never done me wrong and if their up to par with the Centurion I will have a look. Thank you.

Former11B
23 October 2014, 19:39
First off, there is nothing wrong with doing the research and asking a lot of questions. You will be less likely to regret a purchase and be happier overall with the rifle you've built EXACTLY to your standards, and if you do need to re-evaluate a part after you get it and use it, then you'll have a better idea of which direction to go. Also, you'll be better equipped mentally for future builds based on your requirements and also be able to help future AR beginners, whether they are forum members or friends/family.

As far as barrels go, the MEDCON (not to sound stupid) is a happy medium between light/pencil barrels and heavy/HBAR profile barrels. Heavier barrels are more rigid and heat up more slowly during higher rates of fire. In terms of rigidity, think of hanging a suppressor on the end of a light vs heavy barrel. You'll likely get more "sag" with the pencil barrel and see a greater effect on POI shift than the heavier barrel. The MEDCON is a compromise.

With fluting/dimpling, it's a way to shave off weight while increasing surface area for cooling while retaining rigidity. As far as dimpling goes, you'll probably pay a premium for it, and if you are getting the rifle down and dirty and are a really picky about cleaning...you'll be going to town on that thing with a toothbrush lol

Don't let the amount of choices scare you. Just look for what meets your needs and your budget, but don't forget: unless it's on sale, you usually get what you pay for in this industry. I am a firm believer in "buy once, cry once" in the firearms world...also, the respected names out there will take care of you in the unlikely chance something is wrong with their product. I'd rather buy the $250 Rainier barrel once then try to skimp out on a $90 bargain basement model...and end up buying the Rainier barrel a couple months later. I also look at it like my ARs, despite being "match"/precision setups or hunting rifles may also be tasked to defend my life at some point. That's not the time I want to wonder if my gear is going to hold out (not that it applies to this conversation...just food for thought).

Also, it may be hard to find a barrel that meets all your criteria from the previous post AND it be a 1:8 twist. I don't know if I've seen a 1:8 barrel that wasn't stainless steel.



This is in fact so far on my short list of barrels that I have been looking at. As I stated before (and if you can't tell) I over think a whole lot of stuff. :)

I see the prices on there but how am I going to know if I am getting screwed price wise? How will I know (other than sheer name brand) know that I am getting something in spec that will work? I think sticking to major manufacturers in my case is a good deal... I don't mind springing an extra $50 if it means I truly gain something by doing that. On the other hand I am not paying merely for a 'name'.

Another question I have is barrel contours. I have no idea why they have different contours and if this effects anything. I know some are dimpled, or are fluted to help cool the barrels (more surface area) but for me, I don't think that will make a huge difference for me. Hopefully i don't end up in some fire fight.

Not trying to sound like an ass, but if I build a decent rifle and I shoot the barrel out 2 years later... I can buy another barrel. It's just like a car. Eventually the windshield wipers wear out. That's routine stuff as far as I am concerned.

All that said, the overwhelming amount of choices simply scare me away from getting into this stuff. A barrel seems simple, but then again apparently it's not :)

And don't even get me started on triggers (yet). I want to discuss them too but for now I am staying right on task with the barrel thing until I can flesh that out and be relatively confident that I am not getting screwed over price wise or on something that's not what is right for me.

Ride4frnt
23 October 2014, 19:41
I will take a look. Rainier has never done me wrong and if their up to par with the Centurion I will have a look. Thank you.

Never had a problem with Rainier. They have some of the fairest prices in the industry, and personally I don't think you can do a whole lot better than their select barrels in that price range.

alamo5000
24 October 2014, 20:59
OK I'm back again... here's maybe a dumb question but a question none the less. It's been advised that a 1:8 twist will be fine for my purposes. I have found several ones made of stainless that would work just fine I am sure.

My question though is why can't I seem to find a 1:8 cold hammer forged barrel (in black) anywhere? Are those some kind of rare barrel or something?

I am sure if I shoot out the stainless barrel I could just replace the thing but if I wanted one with longer life... in that twist rate... is there any reason why 1:7 is more common and 1:9 is most cheap (and common)?

Why can't I seem to find a 1:8 cold hammer forged black 16 inch barrel?

Former11B
24 October 2014, 21:26
Not to give you a smart answer, but economics. 1:8 twists are usually enjoyed by those who use them but the majority of people just opt for the 1:7 for most uses, being NATO/milspec, people either use them for heavy match bullets or are just satisfied with the off the shelf performance of guns they buy using factory ammo (this crowd also would use a 1:9 if their rifle came with it in most cases) so there isn't as much of a demand for it. And demand is what drives what they put out. A few years ago I was looking for 1:8 barrels and they were harder to find outside of 24" length then they are now.

alamo5000
24 October 2014, 21:57
I am not going super cheap but I am also not trying to break the bank.... it is what it is... it's a hobby and I like it.

Here are some parts that I am considering... that way you can see what I have in mind...

I have a CMT billet lower in the mail to me now. I won a CMT upper here.

I would like this:

https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3784


If I can find it, this:

http://www.ar15news.com/2014/08/13/new-rainier-arms-enhanced-ambi-accessories-combo-kit/

Probably this barrel (in black):

https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3279

And maybe one of these gas blocks (not sure if that's the right one for that barrel or not)

https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1872

So far that's kind of where I am headed here....

And keep in mind I am going to be asking Santa for some of these parts to keep my costs down...

but that's the direction... I haven't figured out the trigger yet....

part of my problem is I am kind of going in blind. I don't know if I am gonna get robbed or get a good deal or not. It's sort of like the anxiety of buying a car. Yeah, I like the car... but flying blind I am not sure if I am getting the best prices. Or even if I am getting the right stuff.... In my mind I pretty much have a picture in my mind, I am just anxious.

Former11B
24 October 2014, 22:29
Looking like you've got a plan together.

That's the gas block I got for use with my Select barrel (not MEDCON). I'd suggest giving Rainier CS a call and double checking with them just to be on the safe side

alamo5000
24 October 2014, 22:42
Looking like you've got a plan together.

That's the gas block I got for use with my Select barrel (not MEDCON). I'd suggest giving Rainier CS a call and double checking with them just to be on the safe side


I've got a plan but it's given me plenty of headaches to be 'fun'... LOL...

I am thinking my AR will look pretty bad@ss once it's done...

If I can get the right muzzle device...black barrel, black 15 in rail, black gas block, black gas tube...then my upper and lower (CMT), and if I can find that kit with the charging handle... then I pretty much have to settle on a trigger and a stock. I have yet to figure out what kind of trigger (single or double)... or what stock I really want....

But I am sort of from the school of 'measure twice and cut once...and I am also from the school that if you don't have the money for it, don't be trying to buy it.... live within your means... there is no harm in it. I have saved long and hard for the AR I want... and I think I might get it.

I am pretty sure the thing will wind up looking pretty cool in the end... but more importantly be functional. I don't want to be the coolest guy on the gun range, simply because i don't go to gun ranges. There isn't anyone really to show off to and for. It's pure personal satisfaction.

Depending on the parts I get or if I can get some deals on cyber monday or black friday I could save money... but I plan to get years of enjoyment out of this thing...

That's another thing.... I see so many retailers online I have no idea where are the best and most reputable places to shop at.

I do not like devious sellers... advertise a price that's too good to be true then when you check out it's 39.95 shipping....

That is one reason I am looking on that rainier website... they seem honest. The shipping price is the shipping price. I will pay a small premium for the lack of hassle. Their shipping is straight up. One price. None of this other stuff....

But if I knew a list of places online to regularly check that would be nice...

UWone77
24 October 2014, 22:44
That gas block will be fine with the medcon barrel. The medcon is still .750 at the gas block. Weight is just taken off the front of the barrel.

alamo5000
24 October 2014, 22:49
That gas block will be fine with the medcon barrel. The medcon is still .750 at the gas block. Weight is just taken off the front of the barrel.

What do you mean weight is taken off the front of the barrel? Can you expound a bit please? I am being real open here about just how ignorant I am and you guys are being so nice to me :)

Also... when I am buying this stuff... a gas tube... can i get it in black or is silver it? Also what length of gas tube and all that would I need for that mock up? It's a small part but it makes a big difference....

JoshAston
24 October 2014, 22:53
You'll need a mid length gas tube for that barrel. Spikes has a nitrided gas tube, if they don't have it in stock a reseller usually does. V7 sells an inconel gas tube, but it's pricy.

Govt profile barrels are skinny behind the gas block but heavy in front if it. On medcon barrels they've increased the thickness behind the gas block while decreasing it forward. This results in a barrel that's about the same weight as a govt profile but better balanced.

alamo5000
24 October 2014, 22:54
Another question since I am peppering you guys with a machine gun full of question marks... I see so much marketing hub bub about things...ughhh. its a turn off. But on the bolt carrier group. Someone please steer me right and make couple suggestions.

Ideally I would like like black. Black on black on black on black is kind of my motif here ;)

That said I have been told more than once that nickel boron is really good because it is sort of self lubricating. I don't know if that's a load of crap or not. Meaning you can run with less oil... and so on and so forth...

If you can't already tell I am a caretaker. I take care of my friends and I take care of my stuff when at all possible.

I know I want an M16 bolt (I think) but I am not sure if thats true or not or if any of that coating stuff really matters.

alamo5000
24 October 2014, 22:56
Oh yeah... and to add to my confusion level i watched a 5 part series on the differences between muzzle breaks and flash hiders. Uhhh. I need to go to therapy now.

JoshAston
24 October 2014, 23:01
TR-Enabling sells a BCG with a black nickel Teflon finish. There's also several nitrided BCGs on the market. Or you could just go phosphate.

alamo5000
24 October 2014, 23:05
TR-Enabling sells a BCG with a black nickel Teflon finish. There's also several nitrided BCGs on the market. Or you could just go phosphate.

Can you translate that more into English for me bro? What do those things do differently than the other?

alamo5000
24 October 2014, 23:18
And does anyone know when this kit will be available?

http://www.ar15news.com/2014/08/13/new-rainier-arms-enhanced-ambi-accessories-combo-kit/

And will it work on my CMT reciever?

I don't see why not, BUT its nice to know for sure.

Former11B
24 October 2014, 23:35
Can you translate that more into English for me bro? What do those things do differently than the other?

They are just different types of finishes on the BCGs to make them easier to clean, more lubricious requiring less gun oil for normal operation. With regular nickel boron, you'll see some discoloring due to wear but it doesn't affect function (I've got two). NiB is a slightly harder coating than Nickel Teflon but Nickel Teflon is slicker and not at all weak. Both are easy to clean...even with suppressor use I just wipe mine off. No caked on carbon or build up

I don't have any experience with nitrided BCGs so it's up to you to Google Fu that one

Phosphate is the standard BCG. Requires more cleaning and lubing but durable and has been in use for a long time. Can't go wrong here, it's just not the latest and greatest. Just don't get a shoddy one like some bargain basement PTAC. Get a known quantity like Rainier, BCM, etc

alamo5000
24 October 2014, 23:51
They are just different types of finishes on the BCGs to make them easier to clean, more lubricious requiring less gun oil for normal operation. With regular nickel boron, you'll see some discoloring due to wear but it doesn't affect function (I've got two). NiB is a slightly harder coating than Nickel Teflon but Nickel Teflon is slicker and not at all weak. Both are easy to clean...even with suppressor use I just wipe mine off. No caked on carbon or build up

I don't have any experience with nitrided BCGs so it's up to you to Google Fu that one

Phosphate is the standard BCG. Requires more cleaning and lubing but durable and has been in use for a long time. Can't go wrong here, it's just not the latest and greatest. Just don't get a shoddy one like some bargain basement PTAC. Get a known quantity like Rainier, BCM, etc

Please recommend a good one.... with the link please. Ideally something in black. Don't care if it's the latest and greatest. Just good, quality, functional, and overall decent. I prefer something latest and greatest with the black color as to not break my blackness motif LOL but I will be just fine with the old version. I clean my guns after every shooting... but it would be nice to not having stuff getting caked on there. It wouldn't have to be 'black' but sort of a darker color would be cool. like maybe a dull finish but that preferrably has some of those qualities of nickel... I don't know if they make em or not but hell since I am already into question #2214 I might as well ask for help.

Really though i am a visual learner... so if i 'see' what you are talking about it helps. I am pretty sure having a shiny BCG wont hurt my feelings but you know... since I am making a wish list and I am willing to experiment. I just don't want some cheap ass china knock off.

And I don't mind cleaning, I just would like (if possible) to make cleaning easier.... I have some guns that have a ceracote finish on them... the gun powder burn marks just won't come off... little things like that that... since I am making a wish list for my Christmas present to myself would be cool to work out first.

alamo5000
25 October 2014, 00:02
I think I need to win something else so I can make my life a little easier :) Dragon? Trigger group? Something? Anything? Buelller?

All of this started from me frothing over an AR for months (and saving up for what I wanted) then me winning a part....

Help a brother out. PLEASE. The marketing gnomes are killing my brain cells.

Former11B
25 October 2014, 01:12
Please recommend a good one.... with the link please. Ideally something in black. Don't care if it's the latest and greatest. Just good, quality, functional, and overall decent. I prefer something latest and greatest with the black color as to not break my blackness motif LOL but I will be just fine with the old version. I clean my guns after every shooting... but it would be nice to not having stuff getting caked on there. It wouldn't have to be 'black' but sort of a darker color would be cool. like maybe a dull finish but that preferrably has some of those qualities of nickel... I don't know if they make em or not but hell since I am already into question #2214 I might as well ask for help.

Really though i am a visual learner... so if i 'see' what you are talking about it helps. I am pretty sure having a shiny BCG wont hurt my feelings but you know... since I am making a wish list and I am willing to experiment. I just don't want some cheap ass china knock off.

And I don't mind cleaning, I just would like (if possible) to make cleaning easier.... I have some guns that have a ceracote finish on them... the gun powder burn marks just won't come off... little things like that that... since I am making a wish list for my Christmas present to myself would be cool to work out first.


Even though these newer coatings are very slick, It gives some people the idea that lube is not required. I just want to reaffirm that's not the case...running them dry may be possible but will build up heat and generate wear due to metal on metal. I run LESS lube on mine (FrogLube...not clp) so that may have more to do with it. I prefer NiB for ease of cleaning and I'm vain enough to say...appearance

That being said:
Seekins Melonite/Nitrided BCG $142
https://www.primaryarms.com/Seekins_Precision_Melonite_M16_Bolt_Carrier_Group_ p/0011570003.htm
Seekins is a top brand. Can't go wrong

Rainier Phosphate $135
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3759

BCM Phosphate/parkerized: $170
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm-bolt-carrier-group-auto-mp.htm

PSA Phosphate: $110
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/upper-parts/palmetto-state-armory-5-56-bolt-carrier-group.html

TR Enabling Nickel Teflon: $219
http://www.tr-enabling.com/product-p/

Rainier NIB (not black)
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3760

alamo5000
25 October 2014, 01:22
Even though these newer coatings are very slick, It gives some people the idea that lube is not required. I just want to reaffirm that's not the case...running them dry may be possible but will build up heat and generate wear due to metal on metal. I run LESS lube on mine (FrogLube...not clp) so that may have more to do with it. I prefer NiB for ease of cleaning and I'm vain enough to say...appearance

That being said:
Seekins Melonite/Nitrided BCG $142
https://www.primaryarms.com/Seekins_Precision_Melonite_M16_Bolt_Carrier_Group_ p/0011570003.htm
Seekins is a top brand. Can't go wrong

Rainier Phosphate $135
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3759

BCM Phosphate/parkerized: $170
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt-Carrier-Group-MPI-Auto-M16-p/bcm-bolt-carrier-group-auto-mp.htm

PSA Phosphate: $110
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/upper-parts/palmetto-state-armory-5-56-bolt-carrier-group.html

TR Enabling Nickel Teflon: $219
http://www.tr-enabling.com/product-p/

Rainier NIB (not black)
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=3760

Are all those M16 or no?

Former11B
25 October 2014, 01:34
They all appear to have the full carrier tails in the picture if that's what you are wanting

JoshAston
25 October 2014, 05:57
Most BCGs these days are M16 profile. Unless you own a registered receiver or drop in auto sear, it's not something to be overly concerned with though.

Ride4frnt
25 October 2014, 08:07
Wait til Black Friday to get a lot of this stuff...or even Veterans Day. There will be sales. Off the top of my head, rainier phosphate bcg was $99 last year. You can currently find nice BCG's for under $100, AIM surplus and Ares Armor come to mind.

Former11B
25 October 2014, 08:48
Yep, Primary Arms carries a bunch of name brand BCGs and usually has great sales on a lot of stuff....even things you didn't know you wanted!

alamo5000
25 October 2014, 21:59
OK I am back again.

I just dropped some cash, er, plastic.

Here is what I got so far so hopefully we can come up with a 'yet to be purchased' list after all this is said and done.

-Billet Upper and Lower (picked up the lower today)
-Rainier 16" black medcon barrel (my FFL/Gunsmith buddy raved about them so I became more confident and just went with the flow)
-Geiselle SMR MK2 15
-Rainier low profile match grade gas block
-Rainier mil spec buffer tube kit and a magpul ASC-L stock (got a deal if you bought em together)
-Magpul MOE grip...
-AND pending is my trigger. I have decided on a CMC single stage flat trigger with a 3.5 pound pull. (I put an order in for it but there was some sort of error on the site so I have to wait until monday to call them).

Now, what else am I missing?

-Charging handle
-Bolt carrier group
-black gas tube
-muzzle device

and????


(I am not worrying about sites and optics at present, those are for later discussion)...

I don't want to leave anything out...

Thus far for ALL of the above I am about 1100 bucks deep into this thing. Yes I probably could have built a rifle for much cheaper but I have saved for years to get out of debt and now I don't owe anyone a nickel for anything and considering that it's Christmas i am treating myself right for once. I have scrimped and saved and denied myself of lots and lots of things over time... but for now I am kind of letting it go (for now).

Former11B
25 October 2014, 23:11
Was the lower stripped? Or did it come with mag release, bolt catch, etc?

I'm not familiar with the Geiselle rail; does it mount to a factory barrel nut or a proprietary one? And based off of the answer, do you have the appropriate one?

Charging handle: Rainier Raptor CHs are awesome.

I'd get a regular mid length gas tube and dust it with black high temp grill paint from Lowes if you REALLY want a black one. I'd personally leave it be.

What's left to decide on the BCG?

Muzzle device: Do you want a flash hider, a brake, or a compensator? Research the differences and decide what type best suits you and we can go from there

Iron sights and optics remain.

Optics: There's a new review on WEVO about the brand new Primary Arms 1-6x optic...it's pretty nice for what it is. Although do you want a red dot or magnification? If the latter, do you want low power (1-4, 1-6) or higher power (4-12, 6-18+)?

Iron sights: I'd recommend front and rear folders...do you want polymer like Magpul MBUS or something aluminum?

Now is the time to start looking at sites like PSA for ammo and mag sales. PSA frequently has a soft rifle case plus 6-8 PMags deal for like $90. I'd get a combination of aluminum mags and PMags.

Ammo: brass cases ammo like Federal/American Eagle 55gr FMJ is always on sale at PSA. If you want cheaper ammo, check around for Steelcase ammo to stock up on.

alamo5000
26 October 2014, 07:22
The lower was completely stripped.

The rail has a proprietary barrel nut but the description on the description says they include a wrench that can take off standard nuts and also put that one on.

I was looking very much at the rainier charging handle but I didn't order it yet.

I saw this package and was going to order it but it's no where to be found. Monday I can all Rainer and see:

http://www.ar15news.com/2014/08/13/new-rainier-arms-enhanced-ambi-accessories-combo-kit/

As for a brake/flash hider I don't know which one. Still need to burn more brain cells on that one. I for the life of me cannot figure out why one is 150 bucks and the other is 50 bucks.

As for irons, I do not like the plastic stuff. I will do more homework on that later, as I will with the optic... for now I just want to make sure I have the rifle part built.

Ride4frnt
26 October 2014, 08:09
Hopefully you don't run into problems with the geissele rail and the billet upper... There have been problems with the geissele rails not fitting some uppers, but it can be rectified by a gunsmith if it's the case. Off the top of my head I can really only remember hearing about them not fitting with mega uppers.

Topic at hand. Sounds like a solid build. Muzzle devices could include a lantac dragon, vg6 epsilon, or one of rainiers offerings. These are my personal favorites. Battlecomp also gets a vote.

Also off the top of my head, what about your lower parts kit, since you have most of the larger parts, and you're going with a aftermarket trigger, you'll need

Takedown pin
Pivot pin
Takedown pin detent x2
Takedown pin spring x2
Mag release button (seekins)
Mag catch
Mag catch spring
Bolt catch (seekins)
Bolt catch plunger
Bolt catch spring
Bolt catch roll pin (unless the cmt is threaded for a screw)
Selector detent
Selector spring
Buffer detent
Buffer detent spring

That should be it. If you find the ambi kit, you won't need to buy a bolt catch, mag release button or mag catch. For the pins and detents and springs I use damageindustries.com

Former11B
26 October 2014, 09:10
^^ yep, that's why I was wondering if it was totally stripped.

Since you're getting a trigger this parts kit should be all you need:
https://www.primaryarms.com/CMMG_Lower_Receiver_Parts_Kit_for_AR_15_No_Grip_p/cmmg55ca601.htm


Id get one of these for your work bench so you can fix problems if they arise
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/587468/dpms-ultimate-repair-kit-ar-15

Tyrannosaur
31 October 2014, 19:57
I pretty set on the centurion or rainier barrel but was wondering who makes the most durable and longest lasting nitride/melinite barrel? Not a lot out there. Is the WMD better or comparable to the Centurion?