OPTICS Question/Suggestions

[alamo5000]

As some of the forum members know already I am right smack dab in the middle of an AR build.

Without going into brutal details here is what I am building... I will soon be putting together a plinker that is designed more for general accuracy. It's not supposed to be an entry gun or something where I am trying to raid a building, but more like a target gun.

That said my AR will be scoped with some kind of optic. Here is what I am after.

Based sheerly on logistics around where I live 300 yards would be about the longest shot you could take with any kind of gun. It's very forested. Unless you go to a dedicated range then you can go way out (a friend up the road has a 1400 yard range in the back yard)...but that is not what I am after.

My primary target range is going to be 200 yards. I want accuracy withing that range. I would like an optic that can get to 300 if I need to scout around or take an odd shot if need be.

One thing I like is the reticle on an ACOG where it has the multiple cross hairs and it's designed for the .223/5.56 round and has the drop compensator and so forth.

The ACOG is on the short list but I want to see other options of straight illuminated or not illuminated optics that can meet my 300 yard target range.

I've also seen some scopes that are rail mounted but they have a wide barrel on them so it kind of cuts back on the squinting.

I am not fully versed in eye relief and all that...but I saw one optic that could be an alternative choice to an acog... it was about 6 inches long and had a fat barrel, and I was thinking that with the right level of magnification that would be good.

I do not want a red dot. Cross hairs are more where it's at. I also don't want to over do it. I don't need the scope on my 300 win mag for the AR I am building. I am thinking something light and easy.

Quality is a MUST. I don't like cheap stuff that breaks or gets knocked off center.

Again this is for something like the sig sauer CP1 optical scope would be sort of what i am talking about.

I want to make an educated choice. ACOG is on the list... but what are some other QUALITY options that meet my basic requirements?

One other thing to throw in there is I tested one briefly at the sporting goods store where I could shoot with both eyes open. I could still use periferal vision at least to some degree but I still had the option for scope like performance. I don't want to over do it on the magnification but I don't want to under do it either.

Any options? Suggestions? Ideally I would make a list (of which the ACOG will be on) and then make an educated choice as to which of the lot will provide the best price/value for my purposes.

It is also very unlikely I will be shooting at night either.

If you have an ideas please list specifics so I can get an idea of what to compare.

[Ride4frnt]

This is a relatively inexpensive optic, but so far I'm very impressed for the price.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6436

My second suggestion would be something from Vortex, their viper PST line. 1-4x or 2.5-10x

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I have to recommend vortex as well. I have 2 vipers. One in 6.5x20x44 Bd the other is a x50. I also have a Sparc on my latest build all are top quality and you'd be hard pressed to find such quality without dropping some major $$$

[Ride4frnt]

I have to recommend vortex as well. I have 2 vipers. One in 6.5x20x44 Bd the other is a x50. I also have a Sparc on my latest build all are top quality and you'd be hard pressed to find such quality without dropping some major $$$

And vortex warranty is second to none.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

And vortex warranty is second to none.

Indeed!

[alamo5000]

I am thinking something like this:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/85817

It's got the reticle that I like and the size that I like... but I am not sure if there are other options out there that might be something along those lines.

[alamo5000]

I will check out those Vortex for sure. On the list.... I am looking at all options.

[alamo5000]

For my range and size can someone tell me about what kind of magnification level that would fall under? On the ACOG a 4x32 is pretty good (duh)... but on a regular scope like I was saying I don't want overkill.

On this stuff coming from a shotgunner background I am not all that versed in magnifactions or eye relief or any of that.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Personally I have to say a lot of that depend on you. I wear glasses and have a horrible astigmatism. I need the extra zoom to see comfortably. Hence the high powered scopes on my hunting/long range rifles. While others can get away with a 1-6 or similar I couldn't see the target if I tried with the above. Me personally I'd rather have too much than not enough.

[El Cid]

Have you looked at the Swarovski Z6i 1-6? It's pricey but worth every dollar in my experience. The FOV is incredible and the glass is the kind of quality you'd expect from that company. The dot is brighter than my Aimpoints and has a day and a night setting. You can of course turn it off and use the crosshairs.

The BRT reticle is essentially a mil dot tree and will give you everything you need out to 600 yards. I don't baby my gear and both of the Z6I's I have are unaffected. One is on a 7.62 rifle. It's as light or lighter than any scope in its class. If I could have only one optic to use for all tasks, this would be it.

This is me zeroing the 5.56 rifle with it.
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Zeroing.jpg

I was so impressed with it that I got a second for my7.62. Both performed exactly as needed during a precision rifle course taught by Jack "Failure2Stop" Leuba.
http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/IMAG0039_zps879adc2e.jpg

[Ride4frnt]

Off the top of my head, along the lines of the sig optic, burris makes a few like that, and primary arms also do, 4x and 6x fixed magnification I believe.

On the powers, I would say I could comfortably shoot my 1-6x at 300yds, ring steel further out probably. 3-9 will definitely be enough for 300yds. It does depend on your vision though. I'm 20/15 in my dominant eye. Another thing you might look into is field of view at a certain magnification on certain optics.

I have a 1-6 primary arms and 3-9 nikon on AR's and I'd feel confident in making a good shot at 300 with either.

[alamo5000]

Personally I have to say a lot of that depend on you. I wear glasses and have a horrible astigmatism. I need the extra zoom to see comfortably. Hence the high powered scopes on my hunting/long range rifles. While others can get away with a 1-6 or similar I couldn't see the target if I tried with the above. Me personally I'd rather have too much than not enough.

The last time I went to the optometrist for a check up when he got to 20/10 he told me to get up and go home. :) I don't wear glasses of any kind.

Here is another option...

http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/Nikon-Products/Riflescopes/P-223-3x32-Matte-BDC-Carbine.html

Something not too honkin' big is one requirement or rather preference.

[Ride4frnt]

The last time I went to the optometrist for a check up when he got to 20/10 he told me to get up and go home. :) I don't wear glasses of any kind.

Here is another option...

http://www.nikonsportoptics.com/en/Nikon-Products/Riflescopes/P-223-3x32-Matte-BDC-Carbine.html

Something not too honkin' big is one requirement or rather preference.

I work for an eye doctor, so I get that stuff taken care of for me. We deal Zeiss lenses...really trying to get the owner to put me in an order for a scope at cost.

3x isn't go as give you very much leeway at 200-300yds I feel

[alamo5000]

So far this Nikon one looks very attractive.

Or something like that. I am scouring the internet but I am not really sure what I am after. If I have to sacrifice the 300 yard mark and live with 200 yards I am fine with that... just so long as the scope isn't huge and has crosshairs, preferrably with mil dots etc. I really like the range finding thing on the ACOG so that stuff would be cool too. But I simply don't know what I am after or if I even 'really' want a 1000 bucks optic... or if I even need one... yeah it would be nice but I am trying to think through before I start buying more stuff.

[alamo5000]

3x isn't go as give you very much leeway at 200-300yds I feel

????

[alamo5000]

Looks promising along something like this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkQrgECpKRE

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I have a ar optics bushnell 3-12x40. It is decent glass however I had it on my 6.8 and it's currently in the box awaiting shipment to them. I have water spots in the reticles... No Bueno....

[Ride4frnt]

????

The nikon you posted is fixed 3x magnification. At 200yds that's not a lot of magnification. Probably enough to get you to hit paper, but you may want more magnification to hit anything smaller. I've heard some good reviews of the bushnell ar optics. They aren't top of the line but for the money they are decent optics. Check out the revive I posted in my first post in this thread, and watch some of the videos on it on YouTube. I think that scope would do you all for your purposes. $250 from rainier arms.

[alamo5000]

The nikon you posted is fixed 3x magnification. At 200yds that's not a lot of magnification. Probably enough to get you to hit paper, but you may want more magnification to hit anything smaller. I've heard some good reviews of the bushnell ar optics. They aren't top of the line but for the money they are decent optics. Check out the revive I posted in my first post in this thread, and watch some of the videos on it on YouTube. I think that scope would do you all for your purposes. $250 from rainier arms.

I like that one you posted up for sure. It's on the list.

I also like this one too...

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Zone-223-Reticle-Riflescope-Turrets/dp/B00ABP5UXG/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1414464341&sr=1-1&keywords=Bushnell+AR+Optics+Drop+Zone-223+Reticle+Riflescope

It's unlikely I will be taking shots at more that 200 yards... but I am getting it for accuracy (as relative to irons)

I am also trying to figure out if I can have BUIS... I am thinking to buy some canted 45 degree irons as my BUIS and run the scope for most things and have the irons for just in case.

Don't get me wrong, I would love an ACOG but I am not sure if that's what I NEED. I really like the VCOG but the same thing. Plus I am not a billionaire. For my purposes I want a quality scope. I could afford an ACOG without a problem but I am not bent on it. I might get one later but I don't know if that's going to be best for ME.

[alamo5000]

Another fault of mine is I am not fully up to speed on what are considered 'reputable' manufacturers. It was just about killing me buying all the parts for my AR (the stuff is being shipped as we speak)...

When it comes to optics though I am just not that up to speed.

I have a friend who goes to gun shows and he buys stuff... just random crap from the Chinese guy selling junk. I have owned exactly one junk scope. Between him wasting his money and my inheriting a crap scope that came on a rifle I bought from someone.... I want something better rather than worse.

That said there is a line where one pays for some stupid name brand and prestige but does not gain performance. And add to that me not being a professional shooter I don't need something that costs $3000. I need a good quality performer with a willingness to pay more for quality.

I am really wondering though... at 4X power at 200 yards...what kind of magnification are we really talking about here? Just using a random example, an apple at 200 yards with a 4x power... what's a good reference point for that power of scope?

[SGT.G]

Another fault of mine is I am not fully up to speed on what are considered 'reputable' manufacturers. It was just about killing me buying all the parts for my AR (the stuff is being shipped as we speak)...

When it comes to optics though I am just not that up to speed.

I have a friend who goes to gun shows and he buys stuff... just random crap from the Chinese guy selling junk. I have owned exactly one junk scope. Between him wasting his money and my inheriting a crap scope that came on a rifle I bought from someone.... I want something better rather than worse.

That said there is a line where one pays for some stupid name brand and prestige but does not gain performance. And add to that me not being a professional shooter I don't need something that costs $3000. I need a good quality performer with a willingness to pay more for quality.

I am really wondering though... at 4X power at 200 yards...what kind of magnification are we really talking about here? Just using a random example, an apple at 200 yards with a 4x power... what's a good reference point for that power of scope?
I'd say 4x hitting a Apple at 200 is pushing it for a decent shooter imo. Maybe at 8x if skilled.

[Former11B]

Alamo, I am getting mixed signals about what type of PRECISION you are looking to get out of an optic (accuracy comes from you). Part of me thinks you are needing something in a lower-mid power optic that can get you minute of man at 2-300 yards, like for banging steel, and then in other posts I get the feeling you want benchrest performance for <MOA precision.

This image (sorry for the size ) shows the difference in magnification appearance from 5x to 25x
http://www.primalrights.com/images/reviews/premier/5-25_comp.jpg

I honestly think this scope from Primary Arms might suit you well, unless you feel like more magnification is required based on your needs.
http://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_1_6X_Scope_with_Patented_ACSS_Reticle _p/pa1-6xrbd.htm
There's a review on it recently on WEVO. It's not a Leupold or Nightforce, but it's a solid scope that will allow you to engage out to 300 yards with confidence.


You mentioned an ACOG. They are fixed power optics with great glass meant to allow a shooter a higher degree of positive effect on man-sized targets (read: people) versus iron sights or RDS. Their reticles are designed to be ranging indicators and their field of view (32-35MM) allows for scanning and observation. They are a true combat optic, not a precision/benchrest riflescope. A good shooter can use them to achieve great groupings at mid ranges but that is not the intent behind the optic. For what it's worth, I love mine. But I have been wanting to get something in the 2-10x range to have for the rifle I run the ACOG on as well, so I can swap out the optics based on the type of shooting I have in mind.

[alamo5000]

Alamo, I am getting mixed signals about what type of PRECISION (not accuracy) you are looking for in an optic.


Don't worry, I am giving myself mixed signals too :) LOL

I don't really know (for sure)... but talking it through helps me understand more of what I DO want.

The more I see, read, listen, and talk to you guys the more of an idea forms in my head.

[Former11B]

Don't worry, I am giving myself mixed signals too :) LOL

I don't really know (for sure)... but talking it through helps me understand more of what I DO want.

The more I see, read, listen, and talk to you guys the more of an idea forms in my head.

Well, think about the direction the RIFLE is going. Is it a benchrest/precision gun, or is it more of a fighting carbine that you'll run through some carbine employment type of courses?

Since your engagement range is sub-300 yarsds, I'd say you're probably more in the latter category. This article may help some:
https://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-for-the-ar-15/

FWIW, I use my TA11 (3.5x35) ACOG for a variety of purposes, whether it's a static 300 yard range, shooting steel, used one in Iraq (TA31) or even deer hunting. Like I said, you're not going to be putting one bullet after another through the same hole at 300 yards with it but you will be able to engage man-sized targets with confidence at that range.

[Ride4frnt]

I laughed at the minute of man comment. I'm not precision shooter, minute of bambi works for me.

[alamo5000]

Well, think about the direction the RIFLE is going. Is it a benchrest/precision gun, or is it more of a fighting carbine that you'll run through some carbine employment type of courses?

Since your engagement range is sub-300 yarsds, I'd say you're probably more in the latter category. This article may help some:
https://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-for-the-ar-15/

Definitely not a bench gun. No question. In my other threads I kind of talked about my 'vision' for the rifle. I will kind of recap here.

I feel like plain irons are fine and all but they do have limits for the 223/556 round. I want to be able to effectively have a rifle where I can engage and hit targets within my 2-300 yard range. I want to be able to use the round to more of the full extent of the round than just plain old irons.

I hear the term 'battle rifle' and yes, that's kind if it, depending on what you mean by that.

If a herd of wild zombies attack, if I engage them within those ranges (0-300) I am good with that. Hitting an apple at 200 yards was just an example I pulled out of my backside.

If I can hit effectively man size targets (I hate using that kind of terminology because that is seriously NOT my thing at all) but that would be a reference point. Of course if I am in the back yard blowing up tannerite cannisters then that's pretty fun too. Get back 100 yards and kablam.

If I don't stack holes on holes that's ok... but I am coming from an AK platform and am moving into (either an addition or replacement I don't know) for a 'battle rifle' I want to exploit the round better and take advantage of greater accuracy as a weapons system.

I can CLEARLY state that with an AR I am not expecting bench rest accuracy. Not at all. I have considered building a bench gun too, but the AR comes first. "Accuracy" is a loaded word... but I am not expecting to drive nails, but I am expecting much greater ability than I have with an AK, and at farther distances. Again the 'man size target' at 200 yards (GRRR I hate that terminology) or even 300 is just fine.

My gun is going to be used for sport. I might give my hand at a simple 3 gun course. Possible. I have been invited about 6 times to be on a team (for fun) but I haven't done it yet.

Plinking, shooting steel, being able to hit my targets are the goals here. I am not expecting super human accurate 5 shots, one hole precision. That said, I am gearing it up to where I can have pretty dog gone decent (I hope) groups at 100 yards where I will zero my rifle.

[alamo5000]

I laughed at the minute of man comment. I'm not precision shooter, minute of bambi works for me.

HEHEE!

Now that's funny I don't care who ya are! :)

I don't want to be phobic about the whole 'man size' target thing... I get it... its a battle rifle and that's what I am building. I am not being PC here, just saying...I think too many people (non gun people) might get the wrong idea...

Minute of bambi.... LOL

[Ride4frnt]

Definitely not a bench gun. No question. In my other threads I kind of talked about my 'vision' for the rifle. I will kind of recap here.

I feel like plain irons are fine and all but they do have limits for the 223/556 round. I want to be able to effectively have a rifle where I can engage and hit targets within my 2-300 yard range. I want to be able to use the round to more of the full extent of the round than just plain old irons.

I hear the term 'battle rifle' and yes, that's kind if it, depending on what you mean by that.

If a herd of wild zombies attack, if I engage them within those ranges (0-300) I am good with that. Hitting an apple at 200 yards was just an example I pulled out of my backside.

If I can hit effectively man size targets (I hate using that kind of terminology because that is seriously NOT my thing at all) but that would be a reference point. Of course if I am in the back yard blowing up tannerite cannisters then that's pretty fun too. Get back 100 yards and kablam.

If I don't stack holes on holes that's ok... but I am coming from an AK platform and am moving into (either an addition or replacement I don't know) for a 'battle rifle' I want to exploit the round better and take advantage of greater accuracy as a weapons system.

I can CLEARLY state that with an AR I am not expecting bench rest accuracy. Not at all. I have considered building a bench gun too, but the AR comes first. "Accuracy" is a loaded word... but I am not expecting to drive nails, but I am expecting much greater ability than I have with an AK, and at farther distances. Again the 'man size target' at 200 yards (GRRR I hate that terminology) or even 300 is just fine.

My gun is going to be used for sport. I might give my hand at a simple 3 gun course. Possible. I have been invited about 6 times to be on a team (for fun) but I haven't done it yet.

Plinking, shooting steel, being able to hit my targets are the goals here. I am not expecting super human accurate 5 shots, one hole precision. That said, I am gearing it up to where I can have pretty dog gone decent (I hope) groups at 100 yards where I will zero my rifle.

After reading that, I'm convinced you need a 1-4 or 1-6 optic. It should cover the gamut.

[Former11B]

After reading that, I'm convinced you need a 1-4 or 1-6 optic. It should cover the gamut.

My thoughts as well.

Something like this:
Vortex Viper PST 1-4x capped turrrets
http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-viper-pst-1-4x24-riflescope-with-tmcq-moa-reticle-capped-turrets

Or even the PA ACSS 1-6x optic...Im not sure how everyone else feels about it since it's not a "big name" piece, but it looks pretty solid.

[CarbonScoring]

When I built my latest rifle I wanted something similar to what you're looking for; 0-300 yards, mostly under 100 yards, but more precise than just a red dot or irons. Since I wanted to be able to use it like a red dot at short distances, I went with a Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x24. It will still allow me to be more precise over 100 yards, but still gives me the ability to acquire targets quickly up close. The Trijicon may be a bit pricey, but I would think the Primary Arms 1-6 or the Vortex 1-4 would be very good choices for you.

The best thing you can do would be to go to a store and look through a few scopes to see what magnification range works well with your eye sight.

[alamo5000]

OK guys... I back again to pick your brains.

I am fresh back from the sporting goods store where I was able to actually handle one of the 1-4 scopes listed here. It was nice. I like it.

But that brings up a whole nother ball of wax. What exactly IS a prism scope?

I was able to handle and compare the two side by side and they both seem like they have strong points.

The 1-4 acts like a true scope more or less. I am guessing if you are not dead on behind the scope then your ability to put rounds on target could be compromised (IE more for target shooting than say 'battle rifle' in some senses of the word.

The prism scope I saw had a recticle in it. It didn't have just some shiny old red dot hanging out there. It had mil dots and everything. The look, the construction and the functionality of the prism scope seemed to me to be quite interesting. The problem is I don't know what a prism scope really is.

Can anyone explain it to me in basic english? :)

I am guessing a prism scope is like a cross between a red dot and a scope scope. Instead of a big funky dot hanging out there it has like I said, cross hairs, mil dots, whatever the thing is built with.

What are the pros to this kind of optic and what are the cons?

After doing a side by side comparison the prism scope actually has a slight edge. I am thinking if I can get a 4X prism scope with the recticle I like then I might, I just might have found my optic. Before jumping the gun though I want to learn more and know more.

If I can do quick acquisition with the prism that is a good thing. If the eye relief is more forgiving thats a good thing. If 'where the dot is the bullet goes' regardless of your orientation to the back of the scope... that is a very good thing.

Also playing around with scopes of various sizes and types in the store I got a bit of a dose of reality. I am seriously thinking that a 4X power at 100 yards zero will be more than sufficient for me.

If the target is "man sized" and out there at 200 yards I am pretty sure I could live with a 4X power and get lead on target.

The idea has never really been (despite the sometimes mixed messages) to try to stack shot on top of shot or nail dimes from a fence post at 100 yards. Under controlled conditions I am sure I could tag an apple at 100 yard with a 4X scope... but all these other factors (if it is what I think it is).... then all those other factors make a much better choice for me.

The adjustable scope I played with had very clear optics on it. That said, after manipulating the thing for a while in the store I could envision myself outside shooting constantly fiddling with the thing. After touching it and seeing it and playing with it, that might NOT be what I am looking for. True I could set it at a certain power and run it from there (shot by shot) but if I am really truly running and gunning more I could easily wind up with the same magnification level (4X) as what I was playing with but gain several other factors, and not lose too much "accuracy".... and by 'accuracy" i mean lead on target...as I said before its a loaded word that can mean different things to different people.

Right now that prism style has an edge but for anyone in the know please fill me in to pros, cons and function, and how it all operates, or even if my assumption about what it is is really all wrong or not would be mighty helpful.

Don't need to get to get too technical but I might have found a good balance to all this.

[DubTap21]

Can't go wrong with an Elcan Specter. Is this the optic you're referring to in your first post? http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/20/0755fe53cbdf6570bbd190e66a23af8f.jpg

[GOST]

This may not be what you where referring to but I think you may like. It's a GRSC, here's a pic of the recticle.

http://www.nordenperformance.com/images/snap_shot_lrg.jpg

http://www.nordenperformance.com/index.html

[Ordnance]

You want precision then don't short change yourself. You can always dial back, but you can't add. You want to run it like a carbine and yet be able to take precision shots which in my world at 300 means <3". If you weren't on a budget I'd say the Vortex 1-6 Razor, or the USO SR6 or SR8, but since I imagine you don't want to drop that much look into a used Vortex PST 2.5-10x32, then mount a 45 offset RMR of sorts for shot <50yds.

[alamo5000]

You want precision then don't short change yourself. You can always dial back, but you can't add. You want to run it like a carbine and yet be able to take precision shots which in my world at 300 means <3". If you weren't on a budget I'd say the Vortex 1-6 Razor, or the USO SR6 or SR8, but since I imagine you don't want to drop that much look into a used Vortex PST 2.5-10x32, then mount a 45 offset RMR of sorts for shot <50yds.

I expended a whole lot of brain power figuring out what I wanted in the way of an AR... I have an optic that works but I am 'evaluating' it to see just how well I like it...and now that i have the gun built I might have to save up and get something really nice optic wise....but I want to make an informed decision by all means.

[Ordnance]

I expended a whole lot of brain power figuring out what I wanted in the way of an AR... I have an optic that works but I am 'evaluating' it to see just how well I like it...and now that i have the gun built I might have to save up and get something really nice optic wise....but I want to make an informed decision by all means.

No worries... I'm late to the party anyways and tried to scan the previous responses but must have missed something.

[alamo5000]

No worries... I'm late to the party anyways and tried to scan the previous responses but must have missed something.

No, no. You're fine. I was building an AR (which is now done) and basically I emptied out my alloted money. So I picked a relatively cheap optic that had some decent reviews online...Mainly so I could get to shooting. You don't 'need' a $1500 optic to shoot....

But in the end if I am not completely satisfied with my middle of the road choice I will be looking to upgrade (after my bank account recovers)...I don't know what I really want yet, but the design concept of what i have is pretty neat. There are just so many choices... I get overwhelmed looking at all this stuff and figuring out how it will fit into my current system. At this point I am just taking it easy (also I have to do things like work)... but eventually I can see myself upgrading to something.

What, I don't know yet.

[greenlineaz]

I have the Vortex Viper PST 1-4. I'm pretty happy with it. I was able to take it out to 400m and hit man sized steel plates at the range. Seems like at 4x it does very well for me at the ranges you were asking about. If you are going more for a pure target scope, then I would go with something else.

[schambers]

So just like everything else in the firearms world, there are tradeoffs when you are talking about optics. You will always have to decide between durability, weight, features, price etc. Here are some basic things that I have learned that might help you out.

Can you use a x4 power optic to gets hits on man-sized targets at 200-400 meters? Yes. Will you be able to shoot 1" groups at that distance with a x4 optic? Maybe. That really comes down to your ability and your rifle, more than the glass. Do you need optics to shoot that far? No. Could using an optic make things easier? Yup.

Some basic very basic things to look at when evaluating optics are: good eye relief, low distortion along the edges of the magnified image, ability to hold zero and for variable power optics, the ability to maintain a zero when moving between power ranges, does the reticle do what you want it to do?

You should also ask yourself what you expect to do with your weapon and how is the optic going to help? For instance, I just bought a nightforce nxs 1-4 for my 300 blackout build. I want to hunt with the gun and wanted magnification to aid in placing precise body shots. I could probably have gotten away with iron sights but the magnification makes precise shooting easier. I stuck with a low power scope because the rifle is an SBR and I think if I had more magnification, I would try to push past 300 meters and end up taking shots that I could not gurentee a kill with. I also wanted capped turrets because I would be banging it around and I wanted something light weight.

It seems like you still have a lot of questions about what different optics features are, or what they will do for you. If you dig a little deeper into what the terminology means, it might give you a better idea of what to look for and hopefully narrow down the list of stuff you are looking at buying. Long story short a 1-4x, 1-6x or a fixed 4x will do well with what it sounds like you want to do.

*edit* To answer your question: A prismatic scope is a rifle scope that has an etched reticle with an overlayed illuminated reticle. Shooting magified optics in daylight, I prefer just looking at just the reticle. When shooting at a 200+ yard target, my eyes focus on the plain etched reticle faster than an illuminated reticle. If thats an issue for you, you can just turn off the illumination or in the case of an ACOG, cover the fiber optic with tape. Other than that there are no major plusses or minuses in a prismatic v non-prismatic rifle scope.

Advantages of the ACOG over other "tube-style" optics is that the ACOG provides a 32mm objective (Or some number close to 32) in a package thats light weight and compact. Larger objectives allow the optic to gather and transmit more light, which equates to a clear image. ELCANs are nice but they are very bulky. Both are very durable and if we are talking about banging the optics against doors and walls and whatnot, they will outlast the other things you are looking at.

[Tyrannosaur]

So I'm in the process of picking a 1-4 or 1-6 scope. I've narrowed it down to the Nightforce NXS 1-4, Vortex Razor 1-6 or the Trijicon Accupoint 1-4. Basically I'm looking for a durable optic that can take ample abuse ( SHTF...) How does the Razor compare to the legendary Nightforce? I've looked at multiple reviews over and over but all I see is the Vortex explaination that says "built like a tank" but I see that with almost all reviews of most scopes. I know I will most likely never need the durability but want it to be there if the need arises. The only factor making me lean away from the Nightforce is the lack of daytime illumination. This will be used for mainly CQB engagements to 300 yards too.

[alamo5000]

So I'm in the process of picking a 1-4 or 1-6 scope. I've narrowed it down to the Nightforce NXS 1-4, Vortex Razor 1-6 or the Trijicon Accupoint 1-4. Basically I'm looking for a durable optic that can take ample abuse ( SHTF...) How does the Razor compare to the legendary Nightforce? I've looked at multiple reviews over and over but all I see is the Vortex explaination that says "built like a tank" but I see that with almost all reviews of most scopes. I know I will most likely never need the durability but want it to be there if the need arises. The only factor making me lean away from the Nightforce is the lack of daytime illumination. This will be used for mainly CQB engagements to 300 yards too.

I have put up several threads on optics so look around at those and some of the links in there too. As I have slowly learned more things and kind of gained insight I was able to post more information as I went on various aspects.

For your specific question as to which one, that is up to you. Among 1-4x scopes you have a lot of options. For what you can get one nightforce 1-4x for you can get three or four Vortex. I held both side by side one in my right hand and one in my left so I kind of got the feel of what you gain with bigger brands.

My constant debate that I am having until I settle on an optic is the power... in one of the other threads I put up it kind of dawned on me how these optics are used. None the less I think a 1-4x is more than sufficient for a AR. I can also see the benefit of a 1-6, but the one I like as well is the US Optic 1-8x. That's one that to me might be the do all scope.

But what I still might do is get a Vortex 1-4x as an upgrade from what I have now and also get the 2.5-10x and have both. I can get both of the scopes for half of one US Optic.

It's needless to say that my research has turned up a lot on the subject and I have a lot to say on the subject but I haven't made up my mind what I want yet. I am not necessarily doling out advice but rather I can tell you what my homework has come up with so far if you really want to know.

[Tyrannosaur]

Thank you for the reply. I've read some of those threads. It is so hard, so many options. Just as I decided what I want something pops up to sway me. My main criteria is to use it as a red dot more or less to 300 yards and the main one, its durability. But as you said there are so many options. The Stickman giveaway got me on a 1-4 kick. I saw the US Optic and got the bug. My eyes suck and I'm not her ng younger so it makes sense to move away from the RDS scene

[alamo5000]

Thank you for the reply. I've read some of those threads. It is so hard, so many options. Just as I decided what I want something pops up to sway me. My main criteria is to use it as a red dot more or less to 300 yards and the main one, its durability. But as you said there are so many options. The Stickman giveaway got me on a 1-4 kick. I saw the US Optic and got the bug. My eyes suck and I'm not her ng younger so it makes sense to move away from the RDS scene

There are a whole lot of options and really someone could spend $100,000 dollars on optics and not even dent it. 1-4X scopes are probably the best all around scope for anything 300 yards and within (on a 5.56). Versatility to me being the key. If you want to keep the whole battle field in view then you got it with the flick of a switch. But as so many people pointed out it depends on the mission and what you want to do. I would love the 2.5-10x FFP that Vortex offers. I could do my precision shooting (at shorter distances) as well as get about as far out as a 5.56 will allow. On the flip side the 1-4x offers a whole lot in it's own right.

So far I am not really sold on most red dot type optics but I guess I just haven't learned enough yet to appreciate them as much as I should.

As far as rugged goes the Nightforce and a few others out there are clearly just amazing. I haven't by far handled all of them, but seriously the choice boils down to the ranges at which you are going to be shooting at. Shooting 500-1000 yards out requires so much more different stuff than shooting in a dynamic environment at a 0-200 yard range. Really though I think getting the right tool for the right job is pretty much where it's at. And regardless of what you (and I) end up picking, the real key is to get good at using it.

[alamo5000]

It almost in ways reminds me of photography. So many people fawn all over this or that and how many megapixels and take pictures of charts and brick walls or whatever and argue all this technical crap that doesn't have anything really to do with creating a good image.

For example if I want to shoot precision shots I need a great trigger, a better barrel, and I need to invest in creating 'the round' tailored for my rifle. And if I don't know ballistics and can't read wind none of the gear will matter as much. If you are talking about up close 100 yards and within, if your reflexes are bad you can have the most bad ass stuff and it won't matter. In other words I am of the school that once you get something picked out along the lines of the mission then learn to use that sucker.