Talk to me about upper vice blocks

[Ride4frnt]

Well the time has come for me to stop pussyfooting around and buy one. The last few uppers I've assembled have been with a borrowed vice block and armorers tool from the neighbor. So I'm in the market for an upper vice block and an armorers tool, but I'm not too concerned with the latter.

What types of blocks are you guys using? I want one that covers the gamut, billet or forged uppers. The clamp style blocks don't work well with billet uppers, I found that out when I used one with my CMT upper. It works, but not properly, and frankly I wouldn't continue to do it.

So that leaves reaction rods and pin style vise blocks. I've read certain things that say pin style vise blocks are no good for barrel/flash hider install, and I've read things to the contrary. I've also SEEN a reputable local gun builder (specializes in high dollar accuracy builds catered to the 3 gun crowd, sponsors a few big name 3 gun shooters) using the pin style to assemble uppers.

Anything you guys would recommend? The geissele reaction rod is a bit rich for my blood but I guess I could consider it. Brownells also offers their own reaction rod which works differently than the geissele for a much lower price. Anyone use one? May grab one and try it out.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/barrel-tools/ar-15-m16-308-ar-barrel-extension-torque-tools-prod27452.aspx?aid=27795&source=ir&cm_mmc=affiliate-_-Itwine-_-IR-_-59979

[Computalotapus]

I like this set and have no complaints with it PlastiXrevolution http://www.plastixrevolution.net/products/blk-pin-upper-lower-vise-block-combo

[SINNER]

Reaction rod hands down. If you must use a block style the DPMS Claw is the best one I have used.

[mustangfreek]

I want to try the new magpul BEV block and their new wrench

[Ride4frnt]

I want to try the new magpul BEV block and their new wrench

True! Forgot about those!

[Thompson]

True! Forgot about those!
Let us know how it works out - if you get that set. Might pick up that set later on down the road for when I get into the building part of my AR addiction. (Is it bad my wallet already hates me?)

[Ride4frnt]

Let us know how it works out - if you get that set. Might pick up that set later on down the road for when I get into the building part of my AR addiction. (Is it bad my wallet already hates me?)
Doubt I'll buy the wrench, but the vice block is now on my radar. I don't see a need for a $80 wrench that has no added benefits over any other brand.

[SwissyJim]

love my Geissele Reaction Rod

[gatordev]

I know it's a bit pricey, but I'm a huge fan of the Geissele rod. I understand the Brownells one is doing basically the same thing from a different angle, but setup is a little more complicated, especially for tool bench. With the Geissele (and KAC) rod, you just pop it in the vice, slide in the extension and start torquing, be it muzzle devices or a barrel nut.

One thing to note on a reaction rod...it's possible with the Geissele version to accidentally push the barrel forward before the nut is tightened, at least with a barrel nut that's a little tight. The nut should still seat the extension into the receiver, but I'd rather it start there. Once you realize it's something to watch out for, it's not a big deal.

But the single best value of the reaction rod, for me, is for muzzle devices. I never had the best luck with barrel blocks, and if it's a SBR, it's a no go. Torquing the muzzle with a Delrin block just doesn't seem like the smart thing to do to aluminum.

[GOST]

Here's Brownell's onsale for $29.99.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/barrel-tools/ar-15-m16-308-ar-barrel-extension-torque-tools-prod27452.aspx

[SINNER]

I might have given the Brownell's a try had I seen it before I bought the reaction rods. The 5.56 isn't bad at $99 but the 7.62 hurt at almost 2 bills. No way I would ever torque a 7.62 barrel without it again.

[Ride4frnt]

The only thing that turns me off about the brownells one is the fact that it's supposed to be used vertically. My vice has horizontal jaws on it, and I'm not sure how well they will clamp the wrench... Anyone got any input?

[Stone]

I hemmed and hawed over the plastic receiver vice blocks and the reaction rod before my first build and ended up getting the reaction rod. It is a little pricey but if you do a lot of builds and muzzle device swaps it more than pays for itself compared to gunsmithing fee's...

[SINNER]

The only thing that turns me off about the brownells one is the fact that it's supposed to be used vertically. My vice has horizontal jaws on it, and I'm not sure how well they will clamp the wrench... Anyone got any input?

I would say the vertical orientation is just to protect the mechanically challenged that would allow the barrel to become slightly disengaged from the tool's splines. I would not hesitate for a second to use it in another orientation. I usually set my reaction rods upward at a 20-25* angle just because it's easier than horizontal. Just watched the video that would not load before. I would make a square adapter to vise mount the brownell's like the Reaction rod.

[Ride4frnt]

I would say the vertical orientation is just to protect the mechanically challenged that would allow the barrel to become slightly disengaged from the tool's splines. I would not hesitate for a second to use it in another orientation. I usually set my reaction rods upward at a 20-25* angle just because it's easier than horizontal. Just watched the video that would not load before. I would make a square adapter to vise mount the brownell's like the Reaction rod.

I reckon you're correct. Orientation shouldn't have anything to do with the torque on the barrel. I think I'll give the brownells unit a try. Or like you said, 1/2" square bar shoved into the back of the brownells rod and you've essentially got a geissele rod.

[camomike]

The only thing that turns me off about the brownells one is the fact that it's supposed to be used vertically. My vice has horizontal jaws on it, and I'm not sure how well they will clamp the wrench... Anyone got any input?

get a set of pipe (soft) jaws for your vice. http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-PLASTIC-MAGNETIC-SOFT-JAW-V-GROOVE-PIPE-PADS-FOR-METAL-VISE-ATTACHMENT-PADDED-/251471672690?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8ce13572

[Gaspipeshooter]

Another vote for the Geissele Reaction Rod...

[SINNER]

I reckon you're correct. Orientation shouldn't have anything to do with the torque on the barrel. I think I'll give the brownells unit a try. Or like you said, 1/2" square bar shoved into the back of the brownells rod and you've essentially got a geissele rod.

And you could wear out 3 and still be up $10. But the Reaction rods are a very well machined piece. I don't like how the splines on the Brownells piece have that sharp shoulder where they turned it down. Good start for a stress fracture. I'm thinking breaking well seasoned barrel nuts loose has to exceed a few hundred ft. lbs on stubborn ones. I think some kind of adapter would be a must with proprietary barrel nuts also. No way to clamp a Daniel Defense or Mega barrel nut wrench into a vise like they did the armorers wrench in the video.

[Ride4frnt]

And you could wear out 3 and still be up $10. But the Reaction rods are a very well machined piece. I don't like how the splines on the Brownells piece have that sharp shoulder where they turned it down. Good start for a stress fracture. I'm thinking breaking well seasoned barrel nuts loose has to exceed a few hundred ft. lbs on stubborn ones. I think some kind of adapter would be a must with proprietary barrel nuts also. No way to clamp a Daniel Defense or Mega barrel nut wrench into a vise like they did the armorers wrench in the video.

I see what you mean about that. I still think that it would work well if I had a 3-4" piece of 1/2" square bar and put it in the end of the rod, essentially giving me the flats that the geissele has. I'm gonna go for it I think. It's 30 bucks, and seems a better option than any of the plastic blocks. Still may also grab the set that comp posted for some lighter duty uses.

[Thompson]

I'm thinking breaking well seasoned barrel nuts loose has to exceed a few hundred ft. lbs on stubborn ones. I think some kind of adapter would be a must with proprietary barrel nuts also.
[wow] That's a lot of torque. Didn't realize companies assembled them with that much torque ....

[Stone]

Over 200lbs is way more torque than an aluminum receiver could handle. Rifle manufacturers don't torque them that high, inexperienced rifle builders do over tighten them though. I believe most barrel nuts are between 35-75ft.lbs of torque. If the torque wrench isn't at a 90 degree angle to the barrel wrench or crows foot there is a dramatic change in actual torque. There are specific formulas for torqueing at an angle other than 90 degrees.

[SINNER]

Back off torque has as much to do with install procedure as initial torque. And FYI it took a lot more than you would expect to rip the threaded extension off the front of a 1980's Colt upper. No anti-seize and dissimilar metals, throw in some heat cycles and that steel nut will almost fuse to the receiver.

[Stone]

Nothin a 4 foot cheater bar couldn't handle though huh?[:D]

[Fathom_Arms]

We use Reaction Rods.

[Thompson]

Over 200lbs is way more torque than an aluminum receiver could handle. There are specific formulas for torqueing at an angle other than 90 degrees.
Yeah - was gonna say, that's a bit large of a torque ... I always thought the typical range was between 50'ish-75 ft-lbs.

Yep. Torque = r*sin(theta)F (or Torque = rxF, where "x" denotes cross product); where r is the distance from the point to the force, F is the force, and angle theta is the angle between r and F.

This is what my pre-engineering degree classes have taught me thus far [:D]

[Soisauss]

I like this set and have no complaints with it PlastiXrevolution http://www.plastixrevolution.net/products/blk-pin-upper-lower-vise-block-combo

Heh, I have the same one. Solid block of polymer and nice fit! And affordable!

I also use their barrel clamp as well. Per usgi method.

[titanse05]

Here's Brownell's onsale for $29.99.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/barrel-tools/ar-15-m16-308-ar-barrel-extension-torque-tools-prod27452.aspxI have one of these and it gets the job done. You can either grind your own flats on it or get a small section of 1/2" square bar stock and clamp it in the vise. It's not as pretty as the RR but at 1/3rd of the price I don't care about the looks.

[JGifford]

Well the time has come for me to stop pussyfooting around and buy one. The last few uppers I've assembled have been with a borrowed vice block and armorers tool from the neighbor. So I'm in the market for an upper vice block and an armorers tool, but I'm not too concerned with the latter.

What types of blocks are you guys using? I want one that covers the gamut, billet or forged uppers. The clamp style blocks don't work well with billet uppers, I found that out when I used one with my CMT upper. It works, but not properly, and frankly I wouldn't continue to do it.

So that leaves reaction rods and pin style vise blocks. I've read certain things that say pin style vise blocks are no good for barrel/flash hider install, and I've read things to the contrary. I've also SEEN a reputable local gun builder (specializes in high dollar accuracy builds catered to the 3 gun crowd, sponsors a few big name 3 gun shooters) using the pin style to assemble uppers.

Anything you guys would recommend? The geissele reaction rod is a bit rich for my blood but I guess I could consider it. Brownells also offers their own reaction rod which works differently than the geissele for a much lower price. Anyone use one? May grab one and try it out.

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/barrel-tools/ar-15-m16-308-ar-barrel-extension-torque-tools-prod27452.aspx?aid=27795&source=ir&cm_mmc=affiliate-_-Itwine-_-IR-_-59979
Geissele Reaction rod. That is the only thing I will use. Busted uppers and sheared barrel pins are too rich for MY blood.