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Ordnance
15 November 2014, 16:41
I'm one of the few motards that purchased the Surefire FA762SS, and for those that don't know it's a recant design which means when all is said and done it needs to overlaps the barrel by 2.75" in order to be usable. This has created an issue for me when it comes to dealing with handguard lengths in relation to barrel length since I do multi-task the can and actually use the QD. I primarily use my rifles for precision long range shooting and have grown attached to having handguards as long as possible. I want to keep with that aesthetic with my latest build now that we have the right finally to use suppressors and SBRs here in WA, and I'm wrapping up a nice little 10.5" 300BO. After mounting the brake I have just shy of 7.76" of clearance for a handguard. I need to know ACTUAL lengths of certain handguards since I know many claim 7" but in reality they're usually a little over or under. Not everything is in-stock over at Rainier to measure up, and it's also over 3 hours round trip for me. If anyone is willing and has the handguard below would you mind please measuring the actual OAL and posting it up? [BD]

Noveske NSR 7"
Seekins MCSR 7
SLR Intrepid 7"
SLR Intrepid 8" (I've seen rails actually < advertised length, so maybe I'd get lucky lol)
Phase 5 Tactical Slope Nose 7.5" (I'd also love to hear a review about this handguard other than an industry news piece)
KAC URX III 8.0


List of confirmed Handguard Lengths

Aero Precision M4E1 7 = 7.25"
BCM KMR 10 = 10.25-10.5"
Centurion Arms C4 7.0 = 7.25"
Centurion C4 12" = 12-5/8"
Centurion Arms 5.56 CMR 14" = 13.688"
DD Lite Rail II 7.0 = 7.25"
DD Omega X 12.0 = 12.875"
Fortis REV 7 = 7.25"
Geissele Mk4 Mod 1 9.5" Rev B = 9.5"
Geissele Mk4 Mod 1 13" = 13"
Knights Armament URX 3.1 13.5 = 13.5"
Mega Arms 2-piece MKM AR-15 Keymod Mid Length = 9.25"
Mega Arms 2-piece MKM AR-15 Keymod Extended Rifle Length = 14.625"
MI SS 2-Piece Carbine length = 7"
MI SS G2 7" = 7.25"
MI SSK 10" = 10.5"
MI SS G2 12" = 12.625"
MI 308 SS 15" = 15"
Parallax Tactical M-lok FFSSR - 13.5"
Parallax MLOK 15" = 15"
Rainier Arms 9" FORCE = 9.2"
Rainier Force gen1 12" = 12.5"
Rainier Force gen1 15" = 15" (about 14 31/32, as close as you can get to 15")
Seekins BAR 12" = 12.5"
SLR M-lok Solo Lite 10 = 10"
SLR M-Lok Solo Lite 12 =12-3/16"
SLR M-Lok Solo Lite 14 = 14"

UWone77
15 November 2014, 20:31
I wish I had these short rails to help you out. This is a good thread though as most rails are not the actual advertised lengths.

alamo5000
15 November 2014, 21:39
I do not have any of the specific rails you mentioned, but I do have an SLR rail that was advertised as 14"... your post made me curious so I put a tape measure on it... and it was exactly 14". If you include the little anti rotation tabs its a smidgin over... but the rail itself from where it mates with the receiver to the tip was dead on.

I know it's not the specific rails you were asking about but if they did mine exactly on 14"... you just never know. I do know this though, their customer service is out of this world...if you order one and it doesn't work... I am sure they will fix you right up.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 10:09
I do not have any of the specific rails you mentioned, but I do have an SLR rail that was advertised as 14"... your post made me curious so I put a tape measure on it... and it was exactly 14". If you include the little anti rotation tabs its a smidgin over... but the rail itself from where it mates with the receiver to the tip was dead on.

I know it's not the specific rails you were asking about but if they did mine exactly on 14"... you just never know. I do know this though, their customer service is out of this world...if you order one and it doesn't work... I am sure they will fix you right up.

I think it would be a good idea to post up other handguards as well since as UW said there are many out there. I know that most will likely be close to what's advertised. Can you tell me which model SLR?

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 12:43
I think it would be a good idea to post up other handguards as well since as UW said there are many out there. I know that most will likely be close to what's advertised. Can you tell me which model SLR?

Here is the exact one that I have on my rifle. 14" Solo Lite M-Lok

http://slrrifleworks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=66_106_70&product_id=113

On a side note I can highly recommend SLR... in my two year hunt for parts while I was AR planning I have held and handled numerous rails and parts making my mental list and SLR are fantastic. I think you will be pleased should you choose to go their direction.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 12:56
Here is the exact one that I have on my rifle. 14" Solo Lite M-Lok

http://slrrifleworks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=66_106_70&product_id=113

On a side note I can highly recommend SLR... in my two year hunt for parts while I was AR planning I have held and handled numerous rails and parts making my mental list and SLR are fantastic. I think you will be pleased should you choose to go their direction.

I like the design of the Solo series, but it would leave 3/4" of exposed barrel which I'm not a fan of since I'm already on the shorter side for the handguard. I want to really maximize it as far out as possible without overlapping the QD. I'm leaning heavily towards that Phase 5 slope nose, but I'm apprehensive since I've seen most of the others and had some good recommendations from other people on the few I haven't held in person like SLR, but nobody I know has so much as held the Phase 5. I've used their EBR and their Revo before which I think are great products, but I'm not a fan of basing something off of other products anymore since I know some companies that make great gear in one are and when they branch into others they fall short.

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 13:29
I like the design of the Solo series, but it would leave 3/4" of exposed barrel which I'm not a fan of since I'm already on the shorter side for the handguard. I want to really maximize it as far out as possible without overlapping the QD. I'm leaning heavily towards that Phase 5 slope nose, but I'm apprehensive since I've seen most of the others and had some good recommendations from other people on the few I haven't held in person like SLR, but nobody I know has so much as held the Phase 5. I've used their EBR and their Revo before which I think are great products, but I'm not a fan of basing something off of other products anymore since I know some companies that make great gear in one are and when they branch into others they fall short.

If possible would you be opposed to having a longer handguard and recessing the suppressor actually slightly inside of it? Are you planning on keeping the suppressor on always? I've seen numerous SBRs and other rifles that the suppression devices are actually mounted inside of the rail.

EDIT:

I found this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTTvyf-mMNk

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 13:39
I am just blowing smoke but I see how that attaches and it might be pain in the arse... that said I was thinking something like this...

http://www.seekinsprecision.com/rifles/pro-series/sprov3-config.html

At least style wise.

If you are going to keep the suppressor on the rifle then it could work.

You could also build a second upper... and have this one dedicated... but who knows. With that detachment style I see what you mean.

In the mean time you have the Seekins BAR 9" rail that might work.

http://www.seekinsprecision.com/parts-and-accessories/handguards/bar-hand-guards.html

The suppressor you have has a 1.5" diameter, and the BAR handguard has a 1.8" inside diameter. It could work out. It would be a tight fit but it would work I think.

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 14:09
With that 9" seekins, here is what I have found using the specs on the products you are talking about.

You said your barrel is 10.5"
The muzzle device/flash hider is 4.19"

Added together your length will be 14.69"

Subtract 2.75" and you have 11.94"

With a 9" rail that leaves you 2.94" to play with, and if you go with the 10" version that leaves you with 1.94" to play with. I think with that rail you could even get away with the 12" version.

Even if it's not exact, I think it would work.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 14:11
I'm not going to keep the suppressor on all the time. I paid good money for a Surefire and dammit I'm going to take full advantage of the QD lmao. If I was going to keep it on permanently I would have kept the 9" AAC that I had on a phenomenal deal with a 9" Seekins MCSR on it.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 14:13
With that 9" seekins, here is what I have found using the specs on the products you are talking about.

You said your barrel is 10.5"
The muzzle device/flash hider is 4.19"

Added together your length will be 14.69"

Subtract 2.75" and you have 11.94"

With a 9" rail that leaves you 2.94" to play with, and if you go with the 10" version that leaves you with 1.94" to play with. I think with that rail you could even get away with the 12" version.

Even if it's not exact, I think it would work.

That's not how it works. The muzzle adapter when mounted overlaps the barrel by 2.5" with another .25" needed to attach the suppressor. It's a recant design.

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 14:16
I'm not going to keep the suppressor on all the time. I paid good money for a Surefire and dammit I'm going to take full advantage of the QD lmao. If I was going to keep it on permanently I would have kept the 9" AAC that I had on a phenomenal deal with a 9" Seekins MCSR on it.

I think with the Seekins BAR that have the larger diameter inside it will give you .3" inches to play with even if it is slightly recessed.... but with the 9" one you won't be recessed at all. Nor with the 10" one from what I can tell.

Maybe I am off the mark. I assume you have to use their muzzle device with that suppressor....but I could be wrong on all counts.

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 14:18
That's not how it works. The muzzle adapter when mounted overlaps the barrel by 2.5" with another .25" needed to attach the suppressor. It's a recant design.

So the 2.75" that you mentioned above is not from the end of that long muzzle brake?

UWone77
16 November 2014, 14:18
You also don't just add the length of the barrel with the length of the muzzle device to give you a total length, since they thread into each other. You lose about half an inch.

Looks like you should have just purchased a SOCOM can, I never did see too many guys running the 762SS Cans.

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 14:25
You also don't just add the length of the barrel with the length of the muzzle device to give you a total length, since they thread into each other. You lose about half an inch.

Good point...but even if you do lose 1/2 on the OAL of the barrel+ muzzle do you think a 9" rail with a larger inside diameter will work? Seekins has them, as does Spikes...

I have never used either but it's worth it to brain storm if it helps solve a problem.

Edit:

Check out the second to the last post....

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?144652-Surefire-FA762SS-and-Rail-Compatibility

The inner diameter of the Seekins rails are 1.8 according to them.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 14:43
You also don't just add the length of the barrel with the length of the muzzle device to give you a total length, since they thread into each other. You lose about half an inch.

Looks like you should have just purchased a SOCOM can, I never did see too many guys running the 762SS Cans.

The SOCOM wasn't even announced until after I had the can. And as much as I like it, unless you strictly run it on a semi or full-auto platform it would not be my first choice because of the way it's designed. The SOCOM is obnoxiously loud on bolt guns compared to the Legacy lines. In retrospect I would rather have the RE762K or a Thunderbeast. Besides... being different means I get to spend more time researching and playing with new products to try and make it work...[BD]

Add: You don't lose another 1/2" on the SF brake for this model for the threads. The way it's designed it does only overlap by 2.5" from crown to the back of the brake and then another .25" for the back of the Suppressor QD section.

UWone77
16 November 2014, 14:46
The SOCOM wasn't even announced until after I had the can. And as much as I like it, unless you strictly run it on a semi or full-auto platform it would not be my first choice because of the way it's designed. The SOCOM is obnoxiously loud on bolt guns compared to the Legacy lines. In retrospect I would rather have the RE762K or a Thunderbeast. Besides... being different means I get to spend more time researching and playing with new products to try and make it work...[BD]

Add: You don't lose another 1/2" on the SF brake for this model for the threads. The way it's designed it does only overlap by 2.5" from crown to the back of the brake and then another .25" for the back of the Suppressor QD section.

I have 2 SOCOM cans and a Legacy Can. They all suck in my opinion. Surefire makes some of the most overrated Cans on the market.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 14:49
Any excuse to take pictures and play with guns... lol...

You can't see it from the angle, but the brake sits at 8"

http://i.imgur.com/kazDZ20.jpg

The best I could do trying to get an image of the crown inside the brake. I have a basic camera, nothing fancy for lenses, and I don't know any of the tricks you guys got, so take it for what it is lol...

http://i.imgur.com/F94c4k0.jpg

UWone77
16 November 2014, 14:53
Man, that doesn't look easy to find the right handguard for that setup, which is why these are made for SPR type guns. [:D]

Good luck, keep us posted on how that turns out.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 14:54
I have 2 SOCOM cans and a Legacy Can. They all suck in my opinion. Surefire makes some of the most overrated Cans on the market.

Somewhere a mall ninja just died... lol. I got mine on a really good deal. If I were to look at a can today it would be Thunderbeast, Mack Bros, or the SilencerCo Harvester.

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 15:01
Any excuse to take pictures and play with guns... lol...

You can't see it from the angle, but the brake sits at 8"

http://i.imgur.com/kazDZ20.jpg

Would you mind putting up one more shot of the suppressor attached (with the tape measure there too?) Same shot only with suppressor....

Edit: Also one showing the suppressor end with the button open? Can you measure it? (Diameter+ open button)

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 15:16
Would you mind putting up one more shot of the suppressor attached (with the tape measure there too?) Same shot only with suppressor....

Edit: Also one showing the suppressor end with the button open? Can you measure it? (Diameter+ open button)

The diameter including the button is .61, but it's irrelevant because I don't want to cover the QD at all. You need 180deg of rotation in order to take it on/off, and since it's an SBR I want to be able to secure it as tight as possible otherwise you'll get POI shift.

http://i.imgur.com/O6z96PX.jpg

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 15:24
The diameter including the button is .61, but it's irrelevant because I don't want to cover the QD at all. You need 180deg of rotation in order to take it on/off, and since it's an SBR I want to be able to secure it as tight as possible otherwise you'll get POI shift.

http://i.imgur.com/O6z96PX.jpg


If we can find you an 8" oversize rail with a 1.8" inner diameter that would work. It might overlap a fraction, like 1/8 of an inch... Other than that lets look for you a 7.5" rail.

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 15:27
http://www.primaryarms.com/Troy_7_2_Alpha_BattleRail_Black_No_Sight_p/strx-al1-72bt-01.htm

Daniel Defense also makes a 7.5" from what I can tell.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 15:32
http://www.primaryarms.com/Troy_7_2_Alpha_BattleRail_Black_No_Sight_p/strx-al1-72bt-01.htm

I've seen those but I'm not interested in that style. I want to try and keep it keymod if possible...

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 15:34
If we can find you an 8" oversize rail with a 1.8" inner diameter that would work. It might overlap a fraction, like 1/8 of an inch... Other than that lets look for you a 7.5" rail.

If it overlaps it at all it will be hard to tighten down. that QD section looks wider than it is. You really want to be able to grip the entire section.

Add: I have looked at the guards with an ID larger enough to fit, but they're all 9" or more. There are very few manufacturers doing 8" other than lopro designs.

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 15:41
If it overlaps it at all it will be hard to tighten down. that QD section looks wider than it is. You really want to be able to grip the entire section.

Add: I have looked at the guards with an ID larger enough to fit, but they're all 9" or more. There are very few manufacturers doing 8" other than lopro designs.

Have you given thought to swapping for a slightly longer barrel? You will make your life a lot easier. Either that or have a qualified gunsmith cut down the barrel (if it's legal) and then pin the brake on. I don't know the laws where you are.

But that might make your life easier. By a lot. It's not my gun or my money but for what you want to do I might opt for a 12" or 12.5" barrel and find a good rail match and call it a day.

But that 8" SLR intrepid is out as an option as it stands.

Gaspipeshooter
16 November 2014, 16:21
I know it's not on your list, but my Midwest Industries handguard on my pistol is exactly 7" long. My 12" MI rail on another upper is exactly the advertised 12.625" long. I mention that to indicate their rail lengths seem to be accurately listed on their website.

http://www.ohiowaterfowler.com/MISCPHOTOS/Rail.jpg

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 16:25
It's a legal SBR that I can do whatever on, but I don't want to go any longer than the 10.5 or it defeats the purpose IMO of an SBR. I know a few good smiths but getting a good cut, crown, and thread job would cost more than it's worth. I'm just gonna get measurements on what's out there and then decide.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 16:31
I know it's not on your list, but my Midwest Industries handguard on my pistol is exactly 7" long. My 12" MI rail on another upper is exactly the advertised 12.625" long. I mention that to indicate their rail lengths seem to be accurately listed on their website.

http://www.ohiowaterfowler.com/MISCPHOTOS/Rail.jpg

I had the MI before on a previous build and I did consider it, but price wise I can get Fortis cheaper if I want to go that route and the Fortis Rev is 7.3" according to Rainier Arms. I guess I was hoping some of the rails I looked at might be longer than advertised and get me closer. If anything though this thread will help others hopefully also.

Add: What model is your 12" MI rail?

KevinBLC
16 November 2014, 16:49
The diameter including the button is .61, but it's irrelevant because I don't want to cover the QD at all. You need 180deg of rotation in order to take it on/off, and since it's an SBR I want to be able to secure it as tight as possible otherwise you'll get POI shift.

http://i.imgur.com/O6z96PX.jpg

LOL that's just going to look ridiculous. Hope it was a steal!

I would use the mentioned Fortis REV. I don't think a "slim" rail would look good on a short barrel with a long silencer

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 17:14
LOL that's just going to look ridiculous. Hope it was a steal!

I would use the mentioned Fortis REV. I don't think a "slim" rail would look good on a short barrel with a long silencer

Not all of us have money to dump into multiple cans, and when it's on a normal rifle it looks fine. The rail doesn't need to be slim either.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 17:17
Can we get back to the topic where I was seeking help in finding actual handguard lengths and not go where it's heading with comments about my can.

Gaspipeshooter
16 November 2014, 17:35
I had the MI before on a previous build and I did consider it, but price wise I can get Fortis cheaper if I want to go that route and the Fortis Rev is 7.3" according to Rainier Arms. I guess I was hoping some of the rails I looked at might be longer than advertised and get me closer. If anything though this thread will help others hopefully also.

Add: What model is your 12" MI rail?

It's an MI-SS12G2. I.D. is 1.3" and O.D. is 1.5"

Gaspipeshooter
16 November 2014, 17:39
This one is 7.25" long.

http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/images/products/ssg2series_sb/ssg2_7in_125.gif

CarbonScoring
16 November 2014, 17:40
Here are all of the handguards I have sitting around.

BCM KMR - 10.25"- 10.5"
Parallax Tactical M-lok FFSSR - 13.5"
Centurion C4 12" - 12-5/8"
SLR M-lok Solo Lite - 10"
Daniel Defense Omega X 12.0 - 12-7/8"
Geissele Mk4 Mod 1 13" - 13"

UWone77
16 November 2014, 17:46
Here's are 2 from the uppers on my desk:

Knights Armament URX 3.1 13.5 = 13.5"
Rainier Arms 9" FORCE = 9.2"

Ride4frnt
16 November 2014, 18:03
I have a 12" rainier force, 15" force, 12" seekins bar, and 15" parallax mlok. Will measure after the walking dead.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 18:05
Will measure after the walking dead.

Lol...

Ride4frnt
16 November 2014, 19:13
Well... Seekins must be a bit funky on their measuring. (Seekins makes the Rainier Force rails too)

Seekins BAR 12" - 12.5"
Rainier Force gen1 12" - 12.5"
Rainier Force gen1 15" - 15" (about 14 31/32, as close as you can get to 15")
Parallax MLOK 15"- 15"

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 19:17
Well... Seekins must be a bit funky on their measuring. (Seekins makes the Rainier Force rails too)

Now you got me hoping someone will measure out a MCSR and get 7.5" lol...

Ride4frnt
16 November 2014, 19:21
Now you got me hoping someone will measure out a MCSR and get 7.5" lol...

I'm glad you made this thread because I never would've known my 12" rails were more than 12".

UWone77
16 November 2014, 19:35
Now you got me hoping someone will measure out a MCSR and get 7.5" lol...

So if you used a MCSR and it's a tad too long... why not just tuck a little bit of the can inside the MCSR?

alamo5000
16 November 2014, 19:40
So if you used a MCSR and it's a tad too long... why not just tuck a little bit of the can inside the MCSR?

We've already gone through that and he said he didn't want to cover up 'any' of the can...I personally think it would be fine... the 9" version that is, but you would have to get your fingers inside the rail a little bit to take the can off or put it on. I don't know, maybe it might be a tight fit... who knows... options are definitely limited.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 19:44
So if you used a MCSR and it's a tad too long... why not just tuck a little bit of the can inside the MCSR?

He only does a 7" and a 9" and I doubt the 7" would be over 7.75"? Glen said he thought the 7" might be like 3/8" over the 7" but he didn't have one lying around to measure. I might be able to make it work if it was like 1/8" too long, but any more than that and I'm concerned my sausage fingers won't be able to tighten it down very well.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 19:47
We've already gone through that and he said he didn't want to cover up 'any' of the can...I personally think it would be fine... the 9" version that is, but you would have to get your fingers inside the rail a little bit to take the can off or put it on. I don't know, maybe it might be a tight fit... who knows... options are definitely limited.

Dude trust me there's no way to just reach in and turn it on/off if you cover up the entire QD area. If I thought it was remotely possible I would definitely do a 9".

UWone77
16 November 2014, 19:52
We've already gone through that and he said he didn't want to cover up 'any' of the can...I personally think it would be fine... the 9" version that is, but you would have to get your fingers inside the rail a little bit to take the can off or put it on. I don't know, maybe it might be a tight fit... who knows... options are definitely limited.

Oh alamo... let the guys who actually own the stuff think outloud for a minute. [:D]

I own several MCSR's and you can have the can partially covered and still manipulate the levers, depending of course on how much is covered.

I don't have a 7" Ord, but you're right anything longer would be too long. I think I have a 9 and a 10.

Ordnance
16 November 2014, 19:58
Oh alamo... let the guys who actually own the stuff think outloud for a minute. [:D]

I own several MCSR's and you can have the can partially covered and still manipulate the levers, depending of course on how much is covered.

I don't have a 7" Ord, but you're right anything longer would be too long. I think I have a 9 and a 10.

I just went down and tried to see if I could manipulate it on and off with just the release area using my finger tips and pretending like I had grip muscles stronger than a 3rd grader... I can do it. I also measure the diameter with the release button again and I was wrong it's 1.6325", so I can look at 8" options as long as it's ≤8" and has an ID >1.65"

UWone77
16 November 2014, 20:09
Ok,

So I measured some other 7" Rails:

Centurion Arms C4 7.0 = 7.25"
Fortis REV 7 = 7.25"
Aero Precision M4E1 7 = 7.25"

Gaspipeshooter
17 November 2014, 03:59
Ok,

So I measured some other 7" Rails:

Centurion Arms C4 7.0 = 7.25"
Fortis REV 7 = 7.25"
Aero Precision M4E1 7 = 7.25"

I'm seeing a trend here...

UWone77
17 November 2014, 09:45
I'm seeing a trend here...

I'm no stats expert... [:D]

I would imagine all 7" Rails are basically 7.25" or less to fit behind a FSB.

The only 8" Rail I can think of is the URX 3.1, but the ID would be too small for the suppressor. Looks like on this one, 7.25" is the longest you'll find that I can think of.

Ordnance
17 November 2014, 09:54
I'm no stats expert... [:D]

I would imagine all 7" Rails are basically 7.25" or less to fit behind a FSB.

The only 8" Rail I can think of is the URX 3.1, but the ID would be too small for the suppressor. Looks like on this one, 7.25" is the longest you'll find that I can think of.

I'm laughing right now because someone has the Fortis REV as 7.3" in their system and when I asked them to measure it they said they did, lol. SLR does an 8" but it's ID is 1.3" also. I think I'm going to either have to settle on being the Guinea Pig for a Phase 5 Slope Nose or cut down something else and give me an excuse to pull out some spray cans lol...

UWone77
17 November 2014, 10:50
I'd cut down a FORCE rail, because it's cheaper than some of the other options.

Ordnance
17 November 2014, 11:25
I'd cut down a FORCE rail, because it's cheaper than some of the other options.

I was thinking a used DD MFR might be an option as well.

Gaspipeshooter
17 November 2014, 11:48
I'm laughing right now because someone has the Fortis REV as 7.3" in their system and when I asked them to measure it they said they did, lol. SLR does an 8" but it's ID is 1.3" also. I think I'm going to either have to settle on being the Guinea Pig for a Phase 5 Slope Nose or cut down something else and give me an excuse to pull out some spray cans lol...

For the money, I'd get the MI handguard I have on my pistol instead of the Phase 5. 5 built in QD sockets, full top rail, and rail sections you can add and put where you want them instead of a full quad rail. Then again, I am a fan of Midwest Industries.

CarbonScoring
24 November 2014, 02:45
The SLR Rifleworks 12" M-Lok Solo Lite is 12-3/16" overall.

Ordnance
24 November 2014, 14:59
The SLR Rifleworks 12" M-Lok Solo Lite is 12-3/16" overall.

Thank you sir!

For everyone else please feel free to post up other handguards as well. I think this will be a useful tool as we start dealing with more and more barrel lengths that are out of the norm as companies do R&D and tweak them for performance.

six8
24 November 2014, 16:48
MI SSK 10 is actually 10.5"


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Gaspipeshooter
24 November 2014, 19:58
MI SSK 10 is actually 10.5"


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It says right on their website that it is 10.5" in length. Your measurement seems to confirm that what they state on their site is exactly what you get.

Ordnance
24 November 2014, 20:16
It says right on their website that it is 10.5" in length. Your measurement seems to confirm that what they state on their site is exactly what you get.

Midwest is one of the better ones about being exact. It's still nice to have a confirmation though.

Ride4frnt
24 November 2014, 21:33
Personally I can't believe there are so many companies that aren't exact, seekins for one. Not a complaint, I love all of my seekins rails, but I never thought to measure til I saw this thread.

CarbonScoring
24 November 2014, 21:56
It's odd that the SLR M-Lok Solo Lite in 10" and 14" are exact, but the 12" is not.

Gaspipeshooter
26 November 2014, 07:56
More confirmation on MI handguard lengths as listed on their website: the MI-SS12G2 on my AR47 upper is exactly 12.625" long, as listed on MI's website.

I'll measure the DPMS high tang 15" MI-308SS15-DH on the .308 I built for my buddy as soon as I get a chance and post the actual length.

Ordnance
5 December 2014, 17:29
Bumping this to the top to try and keep compiling info.

CarbonScoring
5 December 2014, 20:35
Geissele 9.5" Mk4 Mod 1 Rev B - 9.5"

Ordnance
9 December 2014, 23:46
Does anyone here know anybody with a KAC URX III 8.0? I would really like to get the measurements for the top and bottom and the internal diameter...

rob_s
10 December 2014, 04:18
Your 7.0, 9.0, and 12.0 handguards should all be a standard length (about 0.25" longer than stated) because they need to fit behind carbine, mid, and rifle length gas systems with a standard FSB. That doesn't mean that, with so many new manufacturers, and so few with a clue, and fewer still with the depth of knowledge to understand this, that there won't be deviations.

Once you get into the 10s, 11s, 13s, etc you get off the reservation pretty quickly.

I miss the days when the choices were Larue, Daniel Defense, JP, and KAC. I'm not convinced all this "innovation" has done anything other than dilute the stream.

Gaspipeshooter
10 December 2014, 05:08
Your 7.0, 9.0, and 12.0 handguards should all be a standard length (about 0.25" longer than stated) because they need to fit behind carbine, mid, and rifle length gas systems with a standard FSB. That doesn't mean that, with so many new manufacturers, and so few with a clue, and fewer still with the depth of knowledge to understand this, that there won't be deviations.

Once you get into the 10s, 11s, 13s, etc you get off the reservation pretty quickly.

I miss the days when the choices were Larue, Daniel Defense, JP, and KAC. I'm not convinced all this "innovation" has done anything other than dilute the stream.

Innovation is the foundation of functional improvement. Without it, you'd still be gripping plastic handguards and taping flashlights to them with electrical tape...

rob_s
10 December 2014, 06:30
Innovation is the foundation of functional improvement. Without it, you'd still be gripping plastic handguards and taping flashlights to them with electrical tape...

Agreed.

I don't think much of what we've seen in the way of handguard development could be called "innovation".

Most consumers don't know the difference between "different" and "better". They are not synonyms.

From a purely practical/functional standpoint, nobody has improved upon what Daniel Defense offered in their original M4 handguard. This is especially true of all the various itterations of "quad rails" that have come since, and (from a certain viewpoint) true of all of the new-hotness non-picatinny attachment methods.

But who am I to question MOAR!?

Ordnance
10 December 2014, 22:21
Your 7.0, 9.0, and 12.0 handguards should all be a standard length (about 0.25" longer than stated) because they need to fit behind carbine, mid, and rifle length gas systems with a standard FSB. That doesn't mean that, with so many new manufacturers, and so few with a clue, and fewer still with the depth of knowledge to understand this, that there won't be deviations.

Once you get into the 10s, 11s, 13s, etc you get off the reservation pretty quickly.

I miss the days when the choices were Larue, Daniel Defense, JP, and KAC. I'm not convinced all this "innovation" has done anything other than dilute the stream.

You're going on the assumption that all rails that size were designed for a standard FSB which is not the case since most are now designed in mind for low-profile gas blocks to fit under. If you go back and read the confirmed sizes you also find that your statement is not always the case.


Agreed.

I don't think much of what we've seen in the way of handguard development could be called "innovation".

Most consumers don't know the difference between "different" and "better". They are not synonyms.

From a purely practical/functional standpoint, nobody has improved upon what Daniel Defense offered in their original M4 handguard. This is especially true of all the various itterations of "quad rails" that have come since, and (from a certain viewpoint) true of all of the new-hotness non-picatinny attachment methods.

But who am I to question MOAR!?

Lol... I disagree. For instance guys like Monty and the C4 rail which is now being copied by many others for it's ability to mount onto a standard barrel nut rather than a proprietary or being stuck with a drop-in unless you want to cut down or swap out your FSB which requires special tools and upper dis-assembly. Or keymod and modular systems for guys wanting the ability to have function without excess. There's been a lot of innovation, and I could go on for awhile. Just because you've found anything of use for improving your personal needs in function does not mean others haven't.

rob_s
11 December 2014, 05:41
You're going on the assumption that all rails that size were designed for a standard FSB which is not the case since most are now designed in mind for low-profile gas blocks to fit under. If you go back and read the confirmed sizes you also find that your statement is not always the case.



Lol... I disagree. For instance guys like Monty and the C4 rail which is now being copied by many others for it's ability to mount onto a standard barrel nut rather than a proprietary or being stuck with a drop-in unless you want to cut down or swap out your FSB which requires special tools and upper dis-assembly. Or keymod and modular systems for guys wanting the ability to have function without excess. There's been a lot of innovation, and I could go on for awhile. Just because you've found anything of use for improving your personal needs in function does not mean others haven't.

Frankly, I don't think most are driven by performance or function. Look at the success of RECOIL magazine, picture threads on almost every forum, etc. It's all BS based on MOAR! and flash and consumerism etc.

Keymod and MLOK don't do anything picatinny doesn't do.

Computalotapus
11 December 2014, 05:47
Keymod and MLOK don't do anything picatinny doesn't do.

I agree with this. Keymod, MLOK, Picatinny all do the same thing.. make it so we can attach accessories to our rifles each do it in there own way but two of them sometimes use one of them to do it..

Ordnance
11 December 2014, 10:33
Frankly, I don't think most are driven by performance or function. Look at the success of RECOIL magazine, picture threads on almost every forum, etc. It's all BS based on MOAR! and flash and consumerism etc.

Keymod and MLOK don't do anything picatinny doesn't do.

How is being able to turn a drop-in to a 12" free float without any smithing consumerism? And Keymod enables us to have slimmer profiles, less weight since you can choose where your rail goes withoug full on rail down both sides or rail covers, and the ability to place accessories on a 45 degree without special mounts. I'll agree that M-Lok is simply another version of Keymod, but to say that it serves no purpose better than a full on quad is simply not true. Again, it doesn't serve a purpose for your needs necessarily, but to say it doesn't serve any better function than a quad is erroneous.


I agree with this. Keymod, MLOK, Picatinny all do the same thing.. make it so we can attach accessories to our rifles each do it in there own way but two of them sometimes use one of them to do it..

It's not about changing the purpose of picatinny but about changing how much of it and where it's located on the rifle. John and Eric wanted to enable a user to completely customize their forearm without having excess and still maintain function.

Ordnance
11 December 2014, 10:41
Hey Rob... this thread was intended to inform people about the actual OAL on handguards, not for you to show up with zero contribution other than to relay your opinion on how none of it matters. Do you have a confirmed handguard length that you'd like to contribute? If not please feel free to start another thread where you tell everyone how the DD M4 is all that they need and then we can argue it out there where it would be more suited.

Computalotapus
11 December 2014, 10:49
It's not about changing the purpose of picatinny but about changing how much of it and where it's located on the rifle. John and Eric wanted to enable a user to completely customize their forearm without having excess and still maintain function.

I agree but it still is doing the same thing. Yes it does the same thing with less material and it does give you more options vs a quad but they still do the same thing. Don't get me wrong I personally don't like a quad. I like my keymod a lot. But my accessory needs are minimal and I can setup a keymod, quad, or m-lok rail all the same. They all serve the same purpose, you can't say that one holds a weapon light to your rifle better than the other.

Designs have changed and the systems have changed. But the purpose is still the same. The consumers want options, because we all want to have a choice and the market has given us options.

Ordnance
11 December 2014, 11:08
I agree but it still is doing the same thing. Yes it does the same thing with less material and it does give you more options vs a quad but they still do the same thing. Don't get me wrong I personally don't like a quad. I like my keymod a lot. But my accessory needs are minimal and I can setup a keymod, quad, or m-lok rail all the same. They all serve the same purpose, you can't say that one holds a weapon light to your rifle better than the other.

Designs have changed and the systems have changed. But the purpose is still the same. The consumers want options, because we all want to have a choice and the market has given us options.

You can't set-up your quad with less rail and shed weight if you don't need it. You can't mount anything on a 45 degree angle unless you have a special mount. You guys want to have tunnel vision and focus on the end purpose but don't want to argue the merits of the system that gets you to the purpose which is the function. If it creates a function that allows me to achieve the same purpose with less weight, less mass, and more options ie 45 degree angles then the purpose has been achieved but it's been done so through a more efficient function.

Here... I'll simplify your guys argument... An old truck can get you from point A to point B reliably. Won't necessarily be the quickest or the most fuel efficient, but it gets the job done. A new truck can do everything the old truck can do but with less weight for more fuel efficiency and greater comfort. You want choose the old truck because it gets the job done the same and claim the new truck does the same thing the old truck does based upon just getting from point A to point B and not on how it gets you there or if it's the most efficient.

Computalotapus
11 December 2014, 11:40
You can't set-up your quad with less rail and shed weight if you don't need it. You can't mount anything on a 45 degree angle unless you have a special mount. You guys want to have tunnel vision and focus on the end purpose but don't want to argue the merits of the system that gets you to the purpose which is the function. If it creates a function that allows me to achieve the same purpose with less weight, less mass, and more options ie 45 degree angles then the purpose has been achieved but it's been done so through a more efficient function.

Here... I'll simplify your guys argument... An old truck can get you from point A to point B reliably. Won't necessarily be the quickest or the most fuel efficient, but it gets the job done. A new truck can do everything the old truck can do but with less weight for more fuel efficiency and greater comfort. You want choose the old truck because it gets the job done the same and claim the new truck does the same thing the old truck does based upon just getting from point A to point B and not on how it gets you there or if it's the most efficient.

You drive your new truck and I will drive my old tdi and I will go further on less. But hey man if 45 degree mounting is more efficient to you good for you. If I had a quality quad and it performs all the functions that any keymod/m-lok does I am not dropping the money to save 3oz of weight or the money to convert everything over to support m-lok/keymod (because attaching a picatinny section to a keymod/m-lok is just another failure point). I am pretty sure you will find something to argue about in this post so I am bowing out.

Ordnance
11 December 2014, 11:49
You drive your new truck and I will drive my old tdi and I will go further on less. But hey man if 45 degree mounting is more efficient to you good for you. If I had a quality quad and it performs all the functions that any keymod/m-lok does I am not dropping the money to save 3oz of weight or the money to convert everything over to support m-lok/keymod (because attaching a picatinny section to a keymod/m-lok is just another failure point). I am pretty sure you will find something to argue about in this post so I am bowing out.

You go further on less with a heavier truck that has less fuel efficiency? I like how you rather than bringing actual valid counter points instead stick to the same argument because you refuse to even validate the reasoning. You shed a lot more than 3oz. BTW... you and your friend Rob are the ones who showed up on my thread which was asking for handguard lengths only to chime in with your opinions about whether or not these systems were even needed or useful, so ask me if I care whether or not you "bow out" from something that you started and now don't like how it's going...

Ordnance
11 December 2014, 11:55
Guess we don't need red dots anymore because iron sights do the same thing and have the same purpose and don't require batteries. Scopes? Why? I mean after all guys can hit the 10 ring at 1K yards with just irons so it's not really necessary since the purpose is the same.

UWone77
11 December 2014, 13:10
Hey Rob... this thread was intended to inform people about the actual OAL on handguards, not for you to show up with zero contribution other than to relay your opinion on how none of it matters. Do you have a confirmed handguard length that you'd like to contribute? If not please feel free to start another thread where you tell everyone how the DD M4 is all that they need and then we can argue it out there where it would be more suited.


Guess we don't need red dots anymore because iron sights do the same thing and have the same purpose and don't require batteries. Scopes? Why? I mean after all guys can hit the 10 ring at 1K yards with just irons so it's not really necessary since the purpose is the same.

Something about your delivery.... what's the word I'm looking for...

Ordnance
11 December 2014, 13:46
Something about your delivery.... what's the word I'm looking for...

PM sent...

Gaspipeshooter
15 December 2014, 15:14
I've got the .308 build I did for my buddy in my possession for a few days to play with.

The Midwest Industries MI-308SS15-DH is exactly 15" in length. This is the MI DPMS .308/7.62 NATO SS-Series One Piece Free Float Handguard, .210 Upper Tang.