View Full Version : Question about NFA and other ownership
alamo5000
19 November 2014, 14:33
Right now I live in an area where our chief law enforcement officer will sign off on things like suppressors or whatnot.
So as of now, I am very tempted to get one. I don't have a lot of interest in Class III machine guns.... although if I had the money....
But lets say for example I go through all the paperwork to own a suppressed SBR or whatever... and things go through no problem.
But then lets say I move to a different jurisdiction. (Say I move to Houston) where their chief LEO won't sign off on anything. I know if I move to a different state where say suppressors are outright illegal under state law that's one thing... but if I stay in Texas and just move around some....I am pretty sure that once I get the forms for the suppressor and all that jive... as long as I keep it with me, I can take the weapon to Houston no problem. Even though they won't sign off on any NEW stuff, they have to honor any existing stuff both under federal and state law.
But say I move from 10 Jones St Apt 12 to Avenue Q Apartment 36? Do I need to say or do anything? What if I don't have a true 'permanent residence'?
How does all that work? If needed I can use a permanent address of my parents. They have been in one spot for 30 years and aren't going to be moving... but me sometimes I move around for work or whatever...
Ride4frnt
19 November 2014, 14:36
Easy solution, spend $75 bucks at coyote rifleworks on a trust, and skip the sign off, fingerprints and photos. Well worth it to avoid headache.
alamo5000
19 November 2014, 14:47
Easy solution, spend $75 bucks at coyote rifleworks on a trust, and skip the sign off, fingerprints and photos. Well worth it to avoid headache.
I hear about all this trust stuff. Does the trust need a permanent address? Would I need to keep my location and the location of the NFA items under lock and key with some government wonk?
I guess it would be a good time to discuss how trusts work too... but taking into account the whole 'moving' thing... or what if I go overseas for a year or two which is very possible?
I can think of a number of scenarios. Or is it where once I get the papers I just put them in a safe place and if questioned I whip out a copy and go 'read em and weep'?
In Texas if you change your address, you need to report that for both your driver's license and your CHL... how does that work with suppressor ownership directly or with a trust?
Stone
19 November 2014, 14:49
Agreed, get a trust! Wait times on paper filings are 7 months. Efiling my form 1 came back in 5 weeks...
Check out this site, its who I used and they have a ton of info on trusts. http://nfafirearmstrust.com/
Ride4frnt
19 November 2014, 14:54
I hear about all this trust stuff. Does the trust need a permanent address? Would I need to keep my location and the location of the NFA items under lock and key with some government wonk?
I guess it would be a good time to discuss how trusts work too... but taking into account the whole 'moving' thing... or what if I go overseas for a year or two which is very possible?
I can think of a number of scenarios. Or is it where once I get the papers I just put them in a safe place and if questioned I whip out a copy and go 'read em and weep'?
In Texas if you change your address, you need to report that for both your driver's license and your CHL... how does that work with suppressor ownership directly or with a trust?
Those questions will have to be answered by a more knowledgeable person on the topic. If you call coyote rifleworks they will tell you everything you ever wanted to know, they are the professionals.
Stone
19 November 2014, 14:56
Read through this as well: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-short-barreled-rifles-shotguns.html
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/national-firearms-act-firearms.html
alamo5000
19 November 2014, 14:57
Agreed, get a trust! Wait times on paper filings are 7 months. Efiling my form 1 came back in 5 weeks...
Check out this site, its who I used and they have a ton of info on trusts. http://nfafirearmstrust.com/
If I did it, it would be e-filed. I hate paper.
I just need to know what all I am getting into with this before I proceed. Little stuff like the 'if I move physical addresses' stuff matters to me.
alamo5000
19 November 2014, 14:58
Those questions will have to be answered by a more knowledgeable person on the topic.
Hence my post LOL [:D]
Ride4frnt
19 November 2014, 15:00
If I did it, it would be e-filed. I hate paper.
I just need to know what all I am getting into with this before I proceed. Little stuff like the 'if I move physical addresses' stuff matters to me.
Well there you have it. I don't think you can efile without a trust.
cagekicker204
19 November 2014, 15:01
I went the trust route that way as long as I am in a state where an item is legal I am good to go. The Coyote Rifle works trust seems to be pretty much what I paid a lawyer to set up so that's an option. Even if the CLEO will sign it's sometimes hard to get an appointment so it really streamlines the process. Plus you can efile a form 1 with a trust and it comes back a lot quicker than a paper form, you can't efile as an individual. The whole process is very simple, my dealer walked me through the form 4 I filed and I used a sticky thread on M4carbine.net to walk me through the efile process with no issues so far other than waiting for the can when you already have the rifle. I am moving (same state) soon so I asked my dealer the same thing here was his reply.
Since today is a holiday, I can't get a concrete answer, but here is my 95% sure answer. The NFA Branch direct line is 304-616-4500 if you ever need a quick answer. They're friendly! For a Form 4 on a silencer the ATF doesn't care much unless you move out of state and then you have an issue. There is a 5320.20 form to submit to update your address that you can mail in. It isn't 100% legally required to send this form for a basic in-state move, but I do recommend it and the ATF wants you to do it. The biggest issue to make sure that your new driver's license has your current (new) address on it when you come to pick up the silencer, but that is for any firearm that is needs to be a current accurate match for your 4473 form.
I called and he was right. They are very helpful
Ride4frnt
19 November 2014, 15:03
This seems to be very useful as well
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/415446_Visual_guide__How_to_fill_out_a_Form_1_usin g_EFORMS.html
alamo5000
19 November 2014, 15:29
I went the trust route that way as long as I am in a state where an item is legal I am good to go. The Coyote Rifle works trust seems to be pretty much what I paid a lawyer to set up so that's an option. Even if the CLEO will sign it's sometimes hard to get an appointment so it really streamlines the process. Plus you can efile a form 1 with a trust and it comes back a lot quicker than a paper form, you can't efile as an individual. The whole process is very simple, my dealer walked me through the form 4 I filed and I used a sticky thread on M4carbine.net to walk me through the efile process with no issues so far other than waiting for the can when you already have the rifle. I am moving (same state) soon so I asked my dealer the same thing here was his reply.
Since today is a holiday, I can't get a concrete answer, but here is my 95% sure answer. The NFA Branch direct line is 304-616-4500 if you ever need a quick answer. They're friendly! For a Form 4 on a silencer the ATF doesn't care much unless you move out of state and then you have an issue. There is a 5320.20 form to submit to update your address that you can mail in. It isn't 100% legally required to send this form for a basic in-state move, but I do recommend it and the ATF wants you to do it. The biggest issue to make sure that your new driver's license has your current (new) address on it when you come to pick up the silencer, but that is for any firearm that is needs to be a current accurate match for your 4473 form.
I called and he was right. They are very helpful
I won't have a problem getting an appointment with our CLEO. All I have to do is ask him to sign over lunch or something. Can you pass the mashed potatoes? Sure. Will you sign this? Yes. Very easy. But I am impatient to wait 9 months for a reply... it's worth it for the trust just for that alone.
So the trust itself... that you have...lets say for kicks and giggles that I go through the trust route...does the trust need a permanent address kind of like an LLC does? LLC in Texas requires a physical address to be on file at all times.
If I move out of the country of course I will be leaving my firearms here along with anything else...(I've lived in 7 countries so far so this matters). If I am going to move states I get all that jive about suppressors not being legal in California or whatever.... but assuming I keep my residence in Texas and I just go from apartment 10 to apartment 157 in the same complex I just have a little form that I can send in just to be on the safe side.
For me, truth be told I use my parent's address a lot. I don't have to run to the DMV every 6 months. Normally I am within an hour or two...so if I get mail I can just go pick it up every now and again.
But what if say I set this trust up in Texas but I get a job in California for a year? I won't take the guns or suppressor with me, but my trust will still be in Texas...
If I am the trustee of the thing some entities (like the Singapore government) where I owned a company before... they require that one director RESIDE in country at all times. I am wondering if the trust stuff works the same way or similar?
gatordev
19 November 2014, 17:12
At the end of the day, you probably should get some legal advice that specifically pertains to TX. But TX is mostly similar to FL and here's the what and why of my situation...
I, like you, had a permenant residence set at my parents' house. In FL, a trust doesn't need an address (I think TX is the same), but when filling out my forms, I put my parents' address in there. I did this to both keep things consistent and because I knew that I was going to (and then did when continuing to file forms) move out of the state for the military and into a non-NFA state. This allowed me to keep my toys legally at a location where the people also had legal access to them.
The beauty of the trust is that even if you move to another state that is NFA-friendly, you can take your items there (after filing the appropriate form for the specific items that need it) and they can live there with you. Just because you don't live in the same state that your trust exists doesn't mean "the trust" doesn't still maintain possession. This was my plan when I thought I was moving to TN (NFA-friendly, but not where my trust was).
The specifics on who is a trustee/grantor/etc are going to depend on your state and trust, so that's where the legal advice helps, but big picture, a trust will meet all of your needs you mentioned.
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