7.62x39? .308?

[alamo5000]

My very first 'battle rifle' that I purchased was an AK47 which I still own. I have several thousand rounds of ammo and a bunch of mags for it. But I've never truly studied out the platform like I did with the AR. I put a lot of time in learning the AR platform.

I have several questions or 'situations' to throw out there to the forum for discussion. Please note that I am withholding some of my own feelings/opinions because I want to hear what the forum as a whole or it's members have to say. I want to know YOUR opinions [:D]

With my first battle rifle as usually with a first 'anything' I kind of bought in blindly. Don't get me wrong... my rifle is extremely reliable and it's super fun to shoot, but it does have some downsides. Canted front sight, etc etc.

I am thinking of upgrading my AK to a better version of the same rifle. The rifle that I have now is marked as follows: "Made by CN Romarm SA/CUGIR in Romania Imported by CAI Georgia UT"

If I do chose to say sell the one I have and get another one, what should I look for? Milled or stamped? What are the basic criteria that I should use to judge a quality AK by? Most importantly other than the 'cool factor' what REALLY would be gained by such an upgrade specifically on the AK platform?

I ask that merely because AK's are just in general not that accurate so if a cheap one can hit a frisbee at 100 yards and a expensive one can shoot a frisbee at 100 yards then why spend all the extra money? I mean if I can sell what I have and invest another $200 for a substantially better rifle, then why not?

I have also given a little bit of thought to some alternative platforms that still use this round. By no means do I know what my main choices really actually are. I know Sig makes a rifle that shoots a 7.62x39 round... I have seen AR platformed rifles that shoot that round as well. I know I can shoot cheap steel cased rounds with the AK and there is no problems. I am not sure if I can use the cheap Russian steel cases with those other platforms.

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Now, after we go through all that, I am seriously chomping at the bit to have a .308 build. I have yet to determine specs on it and all that, but it seems to me that if I build a .308 I have substantially more versatility. I can make a short range gun or a 600 yard gun... all using the same round. The versatility is just astounding.

Now that I have my AR I am really more or less seeing the light. I have so many thoughts running through my head... I look at it like this... a tool box has a lot of tools in it all designed to do different things. Same thing with guns. One might be a machete and the other might be a scalpel.

It seems to me that if I go the .308 route I can basically stock two calibers (for rifles).... .223/5.56 and .308... it just seems like a lot more orderly system to go that route.

There is no doubt that I will wind up doing a .308 build at some point...but I can see now that among the other options, choices in optics can make an entirely 'new' gun out of stuff you might already have. I could have a system where my AR15 is my 1-200 yard gun and the .308 would be my 100-600 yard gun and set it up as such.

I can already see up the road a bit I might be investing in some pretty nice optics. Now if just win that powerball...

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I don't have to sell my AK. It's a lot of fun to shoot. There's no limit on what a person can own. However it is another caliber to keep in stock...so assuming I keep the AK platform (just for variety's sake)... is it worth it to go for an upgrade? Would I gain anything by getting an alternative 7.62x39 platform? Or would I limit myself?

I like the AK because its fun. I also like it because it's just flat out reliable. Mud, grit, don't matter. It shoots. It shoots anything. It takes any kind of ammo. It's cheap to shoot. On the other hand it would be kind of nice just to take the money from several unopened cases of 7.62x39 and the rifle and putting that money towards a more logical system...

Hopefully you guys can see where I am taking this discussion... but it's a worthy topic I think. What's your opinion? Chime in. Add stuff from an angle that I didn't think of....

[Gaspipeshooter]

Build yourself an AR47 upper for an AR15 lower. With as cheap and easy to get as 7.62 x 39 ammo is, to me it makes sense to have one. Below is the one I built and throw on any of my lowers. It's now sporting an RDS.

http://www.ohiowaterfowler.com/MISCPHOTOS/AR47a.jpg

[toolboxluis00200]

Build yourself an AR47 upper for an AR15 lower. With as cheap and easy to get as 7.62 x 39 ammo is, to me it makes sense to have one. Below is the one I built and throw on any of my lowers. It's now sporting an RDS.

http://www.ohiowaterfowler.com/MISCPHOTOS/AR47a.jpg

looks nice

[alamo5000]

Build yourself an AR47 upper for an AR15 lower. With as cheap and easy to get as 7.62 x 39 ammo is, to me it makes sense to have one. Below is the one I built and throw on any of my lowers. It's now sporting an RDS.


That is always an option. A few questions though... what kind of mags does it take? Do you gain any accuracy with that set up? Can that upper handle cheap ruskie 7.62 ammo?

The reliability of the AK platform is great and it's fun to shoot...so I might build an upper like that once I research it out more. It wouldn't be a bad idea at all. I saw one built by RRA called the LAR47... I have heard several reports about reliability of these other platforms....I have also heard reports about them not eating cheapo ammo... which is a plus of the AK.

If I have to buy a bunch of premium AK ammo to run that upper... then eh... I am not so sure about that.

The .308 is a given... the upper for the AR to handle AK ammo is a possibility. But would I gain anything by getting into a 'better' AK? I am already (over the long term) committed to this AR platform... it's just way too versatile. If you got the money you can get NV or thermal, suppressors, make em long range, short range, mix match... you can make the perfect tool for the job...

Realistically I can get 1500-1600 bucks for the AK and all the ammo...that would go a long way to building a .308 build...but then I would be tasked with building up more ammo supplies. keeping a few cases of each caliber is my style...

I could see myself with a couple of 5.56/.223 AR's and maybe a couple of .308 versions... the whole thing is just a big money pit. Then throw in this whole 'blackout' thing.... who knows man... if I had a few million to blow this wouldn't even be a question....just buy it all.

[WHSmithIV]

ASC makes 20 and 30 round mags for AR 47''s. They are $22 each from their website. MGI makes pretty much the best bolt for an AR 47. It'll shoot the steel case Ruskie ammo no problem. A bit pricey for a bolt at $125 but it also comes with a beefed up firing pin for those Berdan primers. It works in any standard bolt carrier. Apparently a number of other 7.62 bolts tend to have a flange break off after a few hundred rounds shooting steel case.

As a side note. You 'can' use standard P-mags but only loaded to 7 or 8 rounds.

I'm currently building my AR pistol as an AR47 10.5" barreled pistol. Should have it finished by Christmas. I'll load up a few of my P-mags with 7 rounds each for testing it since I probably won't be able to afford the ASC mags for another month or two after it's done.

[alamo5000]

At this stage the easiest thing for me to do is just stock up on .223 ammo and keep the AK. I am personally kind of 'not sure' about some of the other stuff out there. The AK though is tested and tried. It works. Now if we are going the 'easy' route, and assuming I don't swap over entirely to an AR platform... what realistically would I gain by upgrading an AK?

Am I over thinking this like I do with other things?

The .308 is gonna happen, it's just a matter of time.... and money.... more the latter.

[WHSmithIV]

At this stage the easiest thing for me to do is just stock up on .223 ammo and keep the AK. I am personally kind of 'not sure' about some of the other stuff out there. The AK though is tested and tried. It works. Now if we are going the 'easy' route, and assuming I don't swap over entirely to an AR platform... what realistically would I gain by upgrading an AK?

Am I over thinking this like I do with other things?

The .308 is gonna happen, it's just a matter of time.... and money.... more the latter.

I'm not sure you'd gain much by upgrading the AK. Thing about AK's is you can drop on in a very muddy puddle, pull it out and all that happens is some mud comes out of the barrel with the bullet. AR's prefer to be a lot cleaner than that. An AK can really stand up to some serious abuse. Probably it's better to keep your AK as is and spend the money on your .308 then come back to thinking about if you want to change out your AK later.

[eldogg]

how about a piston driven 7.62x39. no messy cleanup!
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g258/eldogg/AA762x39003.jpg (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/eldogg/media/AA762x39003.jpg.html)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g258/eldogg/PICT0119.jpg (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/eldogg/media/PICT0119.jpg.html)

[Former11B]

You've got a 16" select match barrel in your AR. Get some 77gr rounds and there's your 600yd gun right there...no .308 needed. You're shooting paper, not people, so terminal ballistics don't really matter

I would work on getting as proficient as possible with the platform using what you have before building a .308.

[cagekicker204]

I have an AK I upgraded and it's a blast to shoot. I like the cheap ammo and knock down power, I went crazy with it and it's a heavy pig. With that said I have it on gunbroker for sale because it is heavy and I wanted something more friendly for my can. There are a number of gunsmiths who specialize in the AK platform that could fix your sights and anything else you can imagine. I do know that once mine is gone I will definitely pick up another and have an AAC flash hider attached. The Romanian guns are nice and light you could have a really nice gun for not much more than buying a new one. I learned a lot on http://www.theakforum.net/ but I don't like to have a rifle sitting around that doesn't get shot and I definitely shoot 7.62x39 more than any other caliber out of my personal weapons (other than 22). I really like the idea of a 308 but price keeps me out of it, if you can afford it by all means go ahead but I rarely get to shoot past 300 yards so the 5.56 and 7.62x39 are my go too. I do know that as soon as mine sells an Arsenal stamped 7.62x39 will be headed my way for a lighter AK build.

[Gaspipeshooter]

how about a piston driven 7.62x39. no messy cleanup!
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g258/eldogg/AA762x39003.jpg (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/eldogg/media/AA762x39003.jpg.html)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g258/eldogg/PICT0119.jpg (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/eldogg/media/PICT0119.jpg.html)

Gaspipeshooter "Likes" this ^^^

[Gaspipeshooter]

alamo5000, I built my upper as a "blaster", to use the term other folks around here seem to like. It was never intended as a super precision long rang gun. Throw some cheap Russian steel case ammo in it a blaze away. Sometimes it's just fun for me, (and others), to throw a mag full of ammo down range fast, without carefully placing each individual shot with precision, just to see what kind of a grouping I can get at 50 yards rapid fire. I just like the smell of gunpowder and don't have to make every range trip with a specific purpose in mind. Here is another "AK47" I built, and promptly sold before I ever even fired it.

http://www.ohiowaterfowler.com/MISCPHOTOS/AK47S.jpg

Magazines are from ASC, and my current version feeds cheap steel case ammo fine so far.

[Computalotapus]

I am building a AR-47 now and they are not that expensive to build as long as you keep to the blemished receiver sets and don't sink a lot of money in the fiddle fart (ambi selector, cmc trigger, enhanced pins, aftermarket forward assist, rail, and sights ). I am going with a standard LPK and upgrading the springs for the trigger and a different grip. Using a strike industries rail and slapping a PA optic on it can calling it good.

[alamo5000]

You've got a 16" select match barrel in your AR. Get some 77gr rounds and there's your 600yd gun right there...no .308 needed. You're shooting paper, not people, so terminal ballistics don't really matter

I would work on getting as proficient as possible with the platform using what you have before building a .308.


Very sound advice.

[alamo5000]

how about a piston driven 7.62x39. no messy cleanup!
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g258/eldogg/AA762x39003.jpg (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/eldogg/media/AA762x39003.jpg.html)
http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g258/eldogg/PICT0119.jpg (http://s58.photobucket.com/user/eldogg/media/PICT0119.jpg.html)



That looks pretty nice. I like it!!!

It's an option for sure to build something similar.

[Former11B]

Are you sure you have a goal in mind? .308 and x39 are vastly different

[alamo5000]

Are you sure you have a goal in mind? .308 and x39 are vastly different

Funny you should ask [:D]

The 7.62 isn't even in the same league or really comparable in most ways. Like you said, they are vastly different.

If you put an AK up against an AR you have a couple of pros and cons of each. If you did the little side by side comparison the AK wins because it's cheap to shoot, eats any ammo, is rugged beyond belief almost, and very reliable. It however is in many ways cumbersome and not at all accurate. It's pretty much for battle in a phone booth... almost a one trick pony... (the platform not the round)...

The fun factor of an AK is pretty high though. The AR though beats it in accuracy by a mile and the system involved is much more orderly. Carrying around 180 rounds of 5.56 in Pmags is completely different than what you would do for the same in an AK platform. The AR is by far more of a refined system.

The AR15 platform is vastly more versatile... for example I have no doubt I can get shots on target at 200 or even 300 yards...or possibly even more...so in a comparison of PLATFORMS between AR15 and AK.... the AR wins the performance battle by a lot. The AK like I said does have the pros of being super rugged and reliable and it does have the plus of being a larger caliber.

Not that I am ever going into battle or whatever... but just saying... the system is far more thought out.

The .308 though is a whole different ball of wax. I have considered getting into that round possibly by the Remington 700 or something like that route (so far I have never seen a bolt action vs AR10 comparison, but it would be interesting)... but if I can build an AR platformed rifle it has a whole different dynamic to it and like I said, its way more versatile. If I did an SBR with a .308 in a side by side comparison to AK... the AK loses again on everything except that it's super reliable...

If I choose to build an .308 build though it would not be of that SBR variety, although having choices is great. To have a gun that has a solid optic that can reach out there a .308 seems like a pretty good choice. Have an AR15 for a 1-200 yard engagement but to have a .308 for a 200 - 600 yard engagement...

The concept I most have in mind would probably be similar to how I have my AR set up now... select barrel... in .308... only probably go for the 18"...and have a lot better optic on it... I would have to study out these barrel lengths and all that a lot more to make an educated choice on true options...

In this realm the AK doesn't even enter in. It's not even close. One is a baseball bat and the other is a ninja sword... two entirely different things...

I like the idea of the .308 caliber round and a set up that will allow me to reliably and accurately get 500 yards WITH THAT CALIBER is kind of the goal.

Unless Fergadishu spreads across the USA odds are I am going to be shooting at steel targets and piggies of all sizes. In all reality pigs and steel. But just having that capability... and being good at it...and once I pick a more permanent optic I can have MOA (or mil) on both the AR platforms so moving in between is fluid. And with the AR platforms like I said, they are vastly more customizable. Up the road if I build a different upper or get a suppressor or night vision or whatever.... it's an option.

The AK... it is what it is. The AR platform is all that plus some.

As a shooter I am not a blam blam blam "I went through a case of ammo today" kind of guy. I like the science of of it. I can enjoy a 30 round mag for quite some time. I like the notion of taking my time (relatively speaking) and sniping so to speak. To me that is more fun than just rattling off some rounds.

If I build a .308 it will be a bigger version of what I did with the AR15 build....put it on steroids. Bigger, faster, longer range, heavier round...

Yes I can hunt with it. Deer and piggies. But the 'pleasure factor' is high with these [:D]

Shooting is my hobby. I am not a pro. Don't pretend to be. I just like it. Cost wise... I can manage it... especially considering my style of shooting. Every now and again going to through a case.. maybe... but I am a little more of a quality time kind of guy.

I have written a whole lot already but in my mind I have a concept of the type of gun I would like....and what kind of performance I would want out of it...and then over say like a 10 year span of time I can branch off of that platform (both in 5.56 and .308) and add fun factor to it... but to me... those two calibers and those two rounds are the building blocks for what I personally would like to do for fun.

I wouldn't have to have 12 different types of ammo laying around...I can condense it down and bam. Have the foundations then go from there....

There is just not really much to 'building out' from an AK platform. It is what it is... not so with the AR platform...and instead of leaping across vastly different things... I have familiar ground and somewhat fluid movement between the two. Hence just one of my reasons for considering a .308 build.

In ways the AK is redundant to the AR15...hence my thought about selling it and committing more to the AR platform (even if it's in my current rifle)... My wheels are turning in my head. A lot. I won't be building a .308 for a while... but I could buy all the parts tomorrow... I have the ability to do it... I just am not ready to make a semi blind leap like that without knowing more about what I am really getting into.

But as far as cost goes, once I have the initial outlay of the gun put together, for me, participating in the shooting sports wouldn't really be all that more expensive. If I go through $50 or $100 worth of ammo for a few hours of fun then so be it...it is what it is... it's something fun to be involved in... but I really like to put my brain into what I do...

[alamo5000]

Are you sure you have a goal in mind? .308 and x39 are vastly different

Another question I would have is instead of doing a 300 blackout if someone reloaded 'light loads' for a .308? It would be interesting to compare say .300 Blackout being suppressed with an SBR to say a light loaded round, suppressed in a similar .308 SBR suppressed... If someone has that already it would be interesting to see side by side comparisons.

I would think it would work just fine but I could be wrong. You might have to tune it a bit but it would be interesting to see.

The whole notion of having a versatile platform to build out from over time is very appealing...I won't need all the money 'right now'...

SBR's look cool but they are low on my priority list.. but I am just saying for illustrative purposes....

[WHSmithIV]

The .308 (which is also the 7.62x51) round is a great round for reaching distances. One day I will build a .308 AR10. it will cost about double what it costs to build an AR15 though. Since you have an AK, I'd keep it if I were you and still build an AR 10.