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Thompson
27 November 2014, 15:57
So I tried to do some digging and didn't find any threads particularly dedicated towards AR-15 cleaning/maintenance.

Now, I've done some digging on the interwebs to see what other folks use and it pretty much seems that each has their own ways. I'm just curious to see what you guys use.

Unfortunately, I'm a bit limited on budget (I've got about $50 right now to spend on cleaning, but I could stretch it to $75 max) - Jack Carbine pretty much tanked my savings. But on the flipside, I wont be needing to do any white glove cleaning for a while. So I think for now, I'll just need basic supplies.

I've been searching around - I'm leaning towards some sort of Otis kit. Does any here use one? Or do you guys kind of just pick and choose supplies from various companies?

Boresnakes? Yay or nay? I've heard people say to get it; others say don't bother. Thoughts?

I've dealt Hoppes, but that's about it. I've heard of the others out there (ie: Ballistol, Fireclean, Froglube, etc).

What do you guys use for cleaning - do you use an all in one (ie: some sort of CLP), or do you use a separate product for each of the C L P?

I'm thinking about just using Ballistol (for now) as my CLP - looking for an all in one, this seems to fit the bill (on the cheaper side of the house). But I might pick up a small jar of Hoppes for good measure, since it's so cheap. Later on, after my bank account recovers, I'll probably start doing some exploring/T&E of my own.

However, I do like the idea of Fireclean/Froglube since it's eco-friendly. -- OR, would I save money in the long run, by just starting out with something like Froglube?

But the afore mentioned for now.

____

... sort of a segway into my second topic. I've been doing some digging as to what to do when you first build/buy a rifle. I've read some people say that barrels in a break-in; but have read that, for chrome-lined barrels at least, they don't need a break in.

I've also read that you should do a first time cleaning before throwing lead down range (to clean out the rifle from sitting in storage). I also want to do somewhat of a torture test (just for my own curiosity to see how far I can push my rifle) - probably somewhere between 3-5000 rounds without any sort of cleaning (maybe a wipedown of the BCG and maybe some lube on it here and there). [Side note: if I decide to go this route, recommendations on lube?]

(I've probably forgotten a thing or two to ask so, there will be follow-on posts)

alamo5000
27 November 2014, 16:24
I am not an expert on AR's so my responses are being carried over from care from other type of weapons/pistols/rifles....and some brief observations. I too am curious about what other people use....and if something like froglube would be a good investment. I will opine then wait for the others to tell their opinions.

I have three or four major products that I use. Pro Shot 1 stop 3 in one has been fantastic on all my pistols. I rarely use anything else. I do have a spray bottle of CLP that I do use sometimes. It is a bit 'thicker' and offers in my opinion some lubrication more than the Pro-Shot so I am using CLP on my AR especially during break in. I also have some foaming bore stuff that tends to work pretty good.

For deep cleaning I use the GREEN can of NON CHLORINATED disc brake cleaner. Do not use the red can as it has chlorine in it and it can damage the metal of your gun over time.

Any cleaning product you use will build up over time... so the disc brake cleaner will strip all that old gunk off and make it less 'sticky'... a gun that has been cleaned but has sat for a while might get a 'tacky' feel to the surface from cleaning solution drying out on the barrel or other parts. Once every few months (maybe 6?) They get a deep clean and a good bath in the other stuff. There is also such a thing as over doing it. If it's too wet it will attract dust...

As for a bore snake... I bought one for my AR and after trying to use it I am thinking of getting a stick that has a rotating handle on it (forgot the name)....the bore snake is fine once you loosen up the gunk in there but sometimes that fouling is stubborn. For pistols I actually soak my barrels in the Pro Shot and it does a good job of getting a lot of that stuff out of there. For a rifle the idea of soaking it for half an hour or so is harder because you just can't take the barrel off and you would need a gallon of the stuff. I might experiment some and see what I can come up with. I might try taking my muzzle brake off and capping the barrel and pouring pro shot down the barrel and leaving it for half an hour... I have no idea if this is a good idea or not.

alamo5000
27 November 2014, 16:33
I've also read that you should do a first time cleaning before throwing lead down range (to clean out the rifle from sitting in storage). I also want to do somewhat of a torture test (just for my own curiosity to see how far I can push my rifle) - probably somewhere between 3-5000 rounds without any sort of cleaning (maybe a wipedown of the BCG and maybe some lube on it here and there).

I am curious what other say about this too. I have read a lot from the extreme precision long range shooters and those guys are meticulous.

From what I understand there IS a break in time for a barrel. Think about it... you had someone drilling a hole through metal to make the bore... and they do what they can to clean up edges and make the bore nice, but there is nothing like shooting it to break it in. If the bore isn't absolutely perfect you may have 'spots' in there that only shooting will take care of...

I have heard the extreme long range guys will shoot a few rounds then clean the barrel... shoot a few then clean... but if you are not doing 1000 yard shots I think that might be some over kill.

This is just my opinion but I would say clean it after each trip to the range, and definitely clean it after it sits for a while. Just sitting there will dry out any kind of solution you put on there.

camomike
27 November 2014, 16:54
Just get a standard m16/m4 butt stock rod kit around $10-15(you'll want the rod if you ever get a stuck casing). A chamber brush if the rod kit doesn't have one (about $5) and a decent carbon scraper tool.

Worked with ballistol before, works, not my favorite. Breakfree clp works just fine.


Personally I have the Gerber m16 kit(mildly upgraded version of the Otis, I only use about a third of it), a bore snake and a carbon scraper. I use almost exclusively CLP but am looking at diming out on fireclean soon.

alamo5000
27 November 2014, 17:06
I have another couple of questions to throw in here....

Has anyone ever tried a BONE tool? Is it useful?

Also how do you go about cleaning your barrel extension? What is the most efficient way to get in between those teeth? Are cleaning stars generally the best route to go or are there other options?

Thompson
27 November 2014, 18:19
For pistols I actually soak my barrels in the Pro Shot and it does a good job of getting a lot of that stuff out of there. For a rifle the idea of soaking it for half an hour or so is harder because you just can't take the barrel off and you would need a gallon of the stuff. I might experiment some and see what I can come up with.
Yep - I know what you mean; I've done the same to pistol barrels, excecpt with Hoppes. Not so sure how this works out for an AR-15 :confused:


From what I understand there IS a break in time for a barrel. Think about it... you had someone drilling a hole through metal to make the bore... and they do what they can to clean up edges and make the bore nice, but there is nothing like shooting it to break it in. If the bore isn't absolutely perfect you may have 'spots' in there that only shooting will take care of...
Yep - I've heard the same - but as you said, this was moreso geared towards reaching out and touching someone. For me, the Jack Carbine is more of an all in one - doubtful I'll ever hit long range with it (primarily because, I can't even find a range past 100 yards) - but that'd be fun to try, should the opportunity ever present itself. Thus apparently, for my rifle, I shouldn't need to "break in" the barrel.


Has anyone ever tried a BONE tool? Is it useful?
From what I can tell - it performs exactly like the CAT (Combat Applications Tool) M4 --> MrGunsngear did a review on it: CAT (Combat Application Tools) M-4 AR-15 Cleaning Tool Review & Demonstration (HD) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXpkv_lCeAg). Something I forgot to mention - but something I definitely want to get eventually.

alamo5000
27 November 2014, 18:33
I found this on youtube...it's interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOB5eCReAQY

Thompson
27 November 2014, 18:42
Just get a standard m16/m4 butt stock rod kit around $10-15(you'll want the rod if you ever get a stuck casing). A chamber brush if the rod kit doesn't have one (about $5) and a decent carbon scraper tool.

Worked with ballistol before, works, not my favorite. Breakfree clp works just fine.
Curious, was there anything you didn't like about Ballistol as compared to Breakfree - just curious?

Also - do I need to worry about moisture build up at all? My rifle is going to sit in a Pelican (psuedo-safe) case for the foreseeable future.

So - how does this one look: AR-15/M16 BUTTSTOCK CLEANING KIT (http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/cleaning-kits/rifle-cleaning-kits/ar-15-m16-buttstock-cleaning-kit-prod22275.aspx)
I think that's everything plus the chamber brush.

Is something like the Otis flexible memory cable a nice addition to have? or not really?

Ride4frnt
27 November 2014, 18:57
Look into MS clean kits too.

DutyUse
27 November 2014, 19:09
Boresnakes, brass rod and paper towels always worked fine for me

Dstrbdmedic167
27 November 2014, 19:11
Make this short and sweet. Froglube for the win!! And a CAT tool you'll be GTG!!

Stone
27 November 2014, 20:26
Up your input price by $25 and get this: https://www.deweyrods.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=56

Throw in a box of Q-tips, a gallon of simple green and a bottle of SLIP EWL. The Dewey system is the best $100 I have spent. It does a great job on the chamber as well...

alamo5000
27 November 2014, 20:44
Up your input price by $25 and get this: https://www.deweyrods.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=56

Throw in a box of Q-tips, a gallon of simple green and a bottle of SLIP EWL. The Dewey system is the best $100 I have spent. It does a great job on the chamber as well...

I bought a Tipton carbon fiber cleaning rod.... I like the idea that 1/ it swivels like the dewey one 2/ that it's somewhat flexible. I could be wrong though. Won't be the first time.

Anyone have experience with these?

camomike
27 November 2014, 21:22
Curious, was there anything you didn't like about Ballistol as compared to Breakfree - just curious?

Also - do I need to worry about moisture build up at all? My rifle is going to sit in a Pelican (psuedo-safe) case for the foreseeable future.

So - how does this one look: AR-15/M16 BUTTSTOCK CLEANING KIT (http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/cleaning-kits/rifle-cleaning-kits/ar-15-m16-buttstock-cleaning-kit-prod22275.aspx)
I think that's everything plus the chamber brush.

Is something like the Otis flexible memory cable a nice addition to have? or not really?

Yes a kit like that is exactly what I was referring to. Grab a carbon tool and to should be good.

Honestly, part of it was the smell after I had shot with it. I also really didn't care for how much residual oil it left. Was too much IMHO on parts I didn't want coated super heavy. On the parts I did want coated heavy it worked great. In regards to cleaning with it, it worked great, just took a bit longer than I wanted. I will say it kept pulling crud after my normal go to had stopped (hoppes).

As for the cable I default to my bore snake more. If I need to scrub I default to my rod.

For moisture issues, as long as you are coating your rifle regularly, the oil should displace any moisture. If you are concerned the are moisture absorbers you can buy.

Never really used the chamber stars. Never felt the need to. The chamber brush will knock most of the fouling loose, and Otis patches do a fine job of picking it up.

camomike
27 November 2014, 21:39
For a carbon tool I grabbed the CAT m4.

voodoo_man
28 November 2014, 04:35
+1 for cat m4 tool - need to review one, have had one since they came out awesome little thing

I went from CLP to froglube to SEAL-1 orange froglube-type stuff. Works well after a couple of uses, been treating my G19 for a while now barely have to clean it, I am pretty surprised.

+1 for boresnake

Other than that a good brush and some time.

Gaspipeshooter
28 November 2014, 05:20
I've been cleaning guns for almost 45 years. I LOVE the smell of Hoppe's #9. I still use it on some of my guns, (mostly shotguns), for the initial cleaning because as I said, I LOVE the smell! Takes me back to "the good old days" I guess. My .223/5.56 cleaning rod is a Top-Shot Products stainless steel rod with rotating handle. I also use non-chlorinated brake cleaner as my primary bore cleaning agent on my rifles. As alamo said though, it will strip all oils from the metal, so if you are using "treatment" type products that are intended to build up over time, (Froglube, etc.), stay away from it. For lubrication, I've been using Breakfree CLP since it came out. I like that it holds up and even seem to catch and hold crud in suspension. I use it liberally on the gas system parts of my semi auto shotguns, and for the most part, everything just wipes off with a paper towel unless I go a really long time between cleanings, (which really only happens during waterfowl season and on one gun). I also use it on the BCGs, inside of my AR receivers, inside the buffer tube, on the buffer spring, and on the parts of the buffer which contact the buffer tube. Again, the crud for the most part wipes off. I'm kind of a neat freak about my guns, so no "torture testing" or extended periods of time between cleanings. I truly enjoy stripping a gun down and giving it a thorough cleaning.

alamo5000
28 November 2014, 05:47
I also use non-chlorinated brake cleaner as my primary bore cleaning agent on my rifles. As alamo said though, it will strip all oils from the metal, so if you are using "treatment" type products that are intended to build up over time, (Froglube, etc.), stay away from it.

I am not all that familiar with products like Froglube, but among the several people that I talked to... they pretty much all said like a 'once every six months' strip and clean with the non chlorine brake cleaner actually makes those products work better.

Whether or not it's a good plan to strip products like froglube from time to time (which I have never used yet)...I am not sure, but it makes sense to do so... that way you have a 'fresh coat' of the stuff and you can keep on with your treatments so that the active ingredients actually get to the metal. Maybe, maybe not.... but somebody might could ask the froglube people and see what they recommend.


I'm kind of a neat freak about my guns, so no "torture testing" or extended periods of time between cleanings. I truly enjoy stripping a gun down and giving it a thorough cleaning.

Me too!!! ;)

Thompson
28 November 2014, 08:22
For moisture issues, as long as you are coating your rifle regularly, the oil should displace any moisture. If you are concerned the are moisture absorbers you can buy.
So in my case, what do you recommend doing? My rifle isn't going to be cleaned in the foreseeable future (torture testing) - and will most likely sit in the case for long periods of time (due to college, I can see at most, maybe a range trip max once a month on some weekend).


I went from CLP to froglube to SEAL-1 orange froglube-type stuff. Works well after a couple of uses, been treating my G19 for a while now barely have to clean it, I am pretty surprised.
If I do go the Froglube route (or something similar of that nature for the matter), should I be worried at all since my rifle will be predominantly be sitting in a Pelican case for the better part of the remaining winter/spring?



I've been cleaning guns for almost 45 years. I LOVE the smell of Hoppe's #9. I still use it on some of my guns, (mostly shotguns), for the initial cleaning because as I said, I LOVE the smell!

For lubrication, I've been using Breakfree CLP since it came out.

I'm kind of a neat freak about my guns, so no "torture testing" or extended periods of time between cleanings. I truly enjoy stripping a gun down and giving it a thorough cleaning.
You're not the only one who loves the smell of Hoppe's #9 haha.

Just curious - is there a reason why you prefer to use Breakfree for just lube, and not all 3?

Call me a bit of a neat freak too. Though, my rifle is a BCM rifle, and I can't just not pass up the opportunity to see how long/hard I can run my Jack Carbine until failure (if it ever does :P)

I also heard the secret is using old cut up tshirts, no?

alamo5000
28 November 2014, 08:38
So in my case, what do you recommend doing? My rifle isn't going to be cleaned in the foreseeable future (torture testing) - and will most likely sit in the case for long periods of time (due to college, I can see at most, maybe a range trip max once a month on some weekend).


If I do go the Froglube route (or something similar of that nature for the matter), should I be worried at all since my rifle will be predominantly be sitting in a Pelican case for the better part of the remaining winter/spring?


Watch the link to that youtube video I put up earlier in the thread if you haven't done so already. The guy takes about a dozen popular products and torture tests them for us so we don't have to. That link is a video to the results.

Based on what I am seeing, unless you live right beside the ocean somewhere in a salt water environment you should be more than ok.

Gaspipeshooter
28 November 2014, 08:46
You're not the only one who loves the smell of Hoppe's #9 haha.

Just curious - is there a reason why you prefer to use Breakfree for just lube, and not all 3?

Call me a bit of a neat freak too. Though, my rifle is a BCM rifle, and I can't just not pass up the opportunity to see how long/hard I can run my Jack Carbine until failure (if it ever does :P)

I also heard the secret is using old cut up tshirts, no?

I suppose I could use the Breakfree CLP for all three, and sometimes do. But mostly I just use it for two of the three: to lubricate and protect. While I love the smell of ol' #9, my wife does not. So in deference to her, I only use that out in the garage. The aerosol brake cleaner only gets used in the garage too.

Old t-shirts, I have a couple plastic garbage bags full. The are used as rags for general wiping/cleaning, and I just throw them away when they get too dirty. For cleaning patches, I use paper towel squares. I just cut a bunch up with scissors when getting ready to clean a gun, and go to town.

camomike
28 November 2014, 09:09
In regards to the CLP the main reason I use it I I shot in cold weather. I've had good luck with it in that regard. The frog lube from reports I've read does not perform well where I live.

alamo5000
28 November 2014, 09:09
I went from CLP to froglube to SEAL-1 orange froglube-type stuff. Works well after a couple of uses, been treating my G19 for a while now barely have to clean it, I am pretty surprised.


Thanks for the recommendation. I bought a pack of the SEAL 1 based on your recommendation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2Xz5Xntfc

Thompson
28 November 2014, 12:03
Watch the link to that youtube video I put up earlier in the thread if you haven't done so already. The guy takes about a dozen popular products and torture tests them for us so we don't have to. That link is a video to the results.

Based on what I am seeing, unless you live right beside the ocean somewhere in a salt water environment you should be more than ok.
Whoops missed that link. Thanks - was pretty interesting, now I know what to stay away from!

Honestly, I'm leaning a bit towards Froglube - did some more digging/Youtubing and really like what I saw. It's eco-friendly, edible, and (more important to me) non-toxic ... plus just checked, my local shop sells it - and a little cheaper than MSRP; hard to beat that!

And I guess, going back to long'ish term storage, would I just do a light coat of Froglube down the barrel? Or should I do something else?

UWone77
28 November 2014, 12:41
Thompson,

If you're not in a hurry, remind me at the end of December. I should be finished moving by then. I'm sure I have an extra tub of Froglube I can send you to try out. I'd like to hear your opinions on it as a new user to the product.

voodoo_man
28 November 2014, 14:45
Thanks for the recommendation. I bought a pack of the SEAL 1 based on your recommendation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX2Xz5Xntfc


Honestly, I am a fan all of a sudden of this product. Before I was like "this gimmick crap..." but I literally cleaned my glock 4-5 times with it and now it looks "wet" all the time and wipes off after shooting. I am very surprised.

alamo5000
28 November 2014, 15:06
Honestly, I am a fan all of a sudden of this product. Before I was like "this gimmick crap..." but I literally cleaned my glock 4-5 times with it and now it looks "wet" all the time and wipes off after shooting. I am very surprised.

We can experiment so other people don't have to LOL!!!

I watched some youtube videos on it and it looks pretty good. Then you throw in a couple of 'testimonials' and I am willing to give it a shot.

Who knows... there is nothing wrong with trying new things. You just might discover something that works even better....

FortTom
28 November 2014, 15:27
I also want to do somewhat of a torture test (just for my own curiosity to see how far I can push my rifle) - probably somewhere between 3-5000 rounds without any sort of cleaning (maybe a wipedown of the BCG and maybe some lube on it here and there). [Side note: if I decide to go this route, recommendations on lube?]

(I've probably forgotten a thing or two to ask so, there will be follow-on posts)

Why? It's been done, hundreds of times, probably thousands, you can find results of these tests from a few thousand to 10 thousand or more rounds. Do an internet search and save your money and gun. A. you've mentioned you're on a budget, but want to blow enough cash to shoot 3 to 5K rounds without cleaning just to see if it screws up your rifle? Just because your rifle will do this, and if it's of any quality at all it will, why would you want to put undue wear and tear on your weapon, to prove what? something that's been proven many, many times. Just because I've seen tests where people drain all of the oil out of their vehicle and drive a hundred miles on the residual, doesn't make me want to drain the oil out of mine.

Second, I would at least run a patch or two of whatever type of cleaner you plan to use, just to get any residual residue the barrel may have during manufacturing.

FT

Thompson
28 November 2014, 16:15
Thompson,

If you're not in a hurry, remind me at the end of December. I should be finished moving by then. I'm sure I have an extra tub of Froglube I can send you to try out. I'd like to hear your opinions on it as a new user to the product.
That'd be great actually [:D] Wont get a chance to pick up my rifle from the shop til late December anyways, so that works out perfectly. Always love doing some T&E.


Why? It's been done, hundreds of times, probably thousands, you can find results of these tests from a few thousand to 10 thousand or more rounds. Do an internet search and save your money and gun. A. you've mentioned you're on a budget, but want to blow enough cash to shoot 3 to 5K rounds without cleaning just to see if it screws up your rifle? Just because your rifle will do this, and if it's of any quality at all it will, why would you want to put undue wear and tear on your weapon, to prove what? something that's been proven many, many times. Just because I've seen tests where people drain all of the oil out of their vehicle and drive a hundred miles on the residual, doesn't make me want to drain the oil out of mine.

Second, I would at least run a patch or two of whatever type of cleaner you plan to use, just to get any residual residue the barrel may have during manufacturing.

FT
Yeah, I know it's been done like a bajillion plus times, but at least for the foreseeable future, the Jack Carbine will serve as my go weapon for everything. And should SHTF (doubtful it will ever happen, but who knows with the way the world is turning these days), I want ease of mind knowing what limits/how far I can take my rifle. Also, I'm not planning on blowing 3-5k rounds in the period of a couple months per se --> most likely over the course of a year or two. All else aside - I'm just curious to see how far I can take the Jack. I'm studying engineering right now - I'd like to go work in the firearms industry, so if I can push a rifle to failure, I can see why/what went wrong and remedy a solution from there.

And yep - was planning on running some solvent all through the rifle (might as well since I'm already doing the barrel) then throwing lube on it.

FortTom
28 November 2014, 16:26
That'd be great actually [:D] Wont get a chance to pick up my rifle from the shop til late December anyways, so that works out perfectly. Always love doing some T&E.


Yeah, I know it's been done like a bajillion plus times, but at least for the foreseeable future, the Jack Carbine will serve as my go weapon for everything. And should SHTF (doubtful it will ever happen, but who knows with the way the world is turning these days), I want ease of mind knowing what limits/how far I can take my rifle. Also, I'm not planning on blowing 3-5k rounds in the period of a couple months per se --> most likely over the course of a year or two. All else aside - I'm just curious to see how far I can take the Jack. I'm studying engineering right now - I'd like to go work in the firearms industry, so if I can push a rifle to failure, I can see why/what went wrong and remedy a solution from there.

And yep - was planning on running some solvent all through the rifle (might as well since I'm already doing the barrel) then throwing lube on it.

Hell, you can probably find guys here who haven't cleaned their guns in 3 to 5K rounds, just because they don't consider them that dirty...[:D]

Thompson
28 November 2014, 16:28
Hell, you can probably find guys here who haven't cleaned their guns in 3 to 5K rounds, just because they don't consider them that dirty...[:D]
You're probably right haha. Now I'm curious as to which of these scallywags do haha

Thompson
29 November 2014, 07:30
Figured I'd post for the benefit of others.

This is a list of items that I picked up:
BROWNELLS - AR-15/M16 BUTTSTOCK CLEANING KIT (http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/cleaning-kits/rifle-cleaning-kits/deluxe-buttstock-cleaning-kit-sku084000233-22275-48469.aspx)
CAT Outdoors - CAT M4 (http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/combination-tools/ar-15-m16-ar-style-308-cat-tool-prod31857.aspx) (note: Currently $5 off; you'd want to get the one marked for .223/5.56)
Hoppes No. 9 Boresnake (http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/brushes-amp-bore-snakes/bore-snakes/boresnake-prod9687.aspx) (note: On sale, $3 off; note: for .223/5.56 select the .22 rifle boresnake - Mfr Part No. 24011)

This list will work for a decent budget ~ approximately $75. If your budget is tighter than that, you can skip on the CAT M4 - it's definitely not necessary, but can ease cleaning of the bolt carrier group.

Also not necessary, but should be cheap enough to fit in the budget if you don't want to cut up any old tshirts:
BROWNELLS - 100 PAKS 100% COTTON FLANNEL CLEANING PATCHES (http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/patches-mops/bore-patches/7-8-square-17-22-cal-sku084468001-1291-4903.aspx)

Thompson
19 December 2014, 20:53
Thompson,

If you're not in a hurry, remind me at the end of December. I should be finished moving by then. I'm sure I have an extra tub of Froglube I can send you to try out. I'd like to hear your opinions on it as a new user to the product.
.... so UW ... does this offer still stand?