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View Full Version : Handguard clearance w/ Noveske 10.2"?



schambers
28 November 2014, 15:35
I'm in the process of a 300 BLK build and the final piece of the puzzle is the rail system.

Hoping you guys can help me out or give me some opinions. The suppressor is a 7.62 Saker and from what I understand, the mounted Saker will not overlap the end of the muzzle device (please correct me if I'm wrong).

1.) 9.5" Centurion CMR - This would be the top choice except for two things. I don't know if the suppressor will clear the hand guard and I'm pretty sure the Noveske gas block will have to be shaved down to fit inside.

2.) Geissele MK5 Keymod, 9.5" - a good contender but I have no hard evidence that a 10.2" barrel will clear the hand guard.

3.) BCM KMR 9.0" - I have the 13" right now and I like it. It will be the fallback if the CMR and SMR don't work out.

4.) Noveske NSR 9.0" - The only thing I don't like about the rail is that in order to install the anti-rotation pin, I would have to drill into the upper. Not sure if I feel comfortable without the anti-rotation pin installed.

UWone77
28 November 2014, 15:45
The CMR is more like 9.5"

Here's an example of a CMR 9.5" on a 10.3" DD Barrel


http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/IMG_2210_zps81d4e6c6.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/IMG_2210_zps81d4e6c6.jpg.html)
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/IMG_2208_zps7095ea3a.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/IMG_2208_zps7095ea3a.jpg.html)

UWone77
28 November 2014, 15:48
Here's a 9" FORCE Rail, which is more like 9.2" IIRC on a 10.5"

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/IMG_2470_zps821a6984.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/IMG_2470_zps821a6984.jpg.html)

schambers
28 November 2014, 16:48
Man, that CMR is close. To close for comfort when it comes to eyeballing a picture. Still don't know if the Noveske low-pro gasblock needs to be shaved to fit in there as well.

Your right about the CMR length though! Data in original post fixed.

schambers
4 December 2014, 13:55
So I ended up going with a BCM 9" rail. Contacted different manufacturers and with the 10.2" barrel, the tolderances are way to close to be confident without actually putting the systems together. Briefly considdered mounting the suppressor inside of a long URX 4 rail but I wanted the ability to use the weapon without the suppressor if necessary.

toolboxluis00200
4 December 2014, 14:24
The CMR is more like 9.5"

Here's an example of a CMR 9.5" on a 10.3" DD Barrel


http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/IMG_2210_zps81d4e6c6.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/IMG_2210_zps81d4e6c6.jpg.html)
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/IMG_2208_zps7095ea3a.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/IMG_2208_zps7095ea3a.jpg.html)

ohhhh i like that

schambers
22 December 2014, 16:31
Installed a 9" KMR today and there was a lot more clearance than I thought there would be. Just waiting on some rocksett to come in before I mount the flash hider.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LgVdYOMVdpk/VJixAL5F3dI/AAAAAAAAAro/AGIjyzpXHLA/w529-h705-no/IMG_0672.JPG
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-R_P1AjOgJ20/VJixBUm1OjI/AAAAAAAAArw/LXiZoWCI6W0/w940-h705-no/IMG_0673.JPG

Ordnance
22 December 2014, 17:52
Installed a 9" KMR on oday and there was a lot more clearance than I thought there would be. Just waiting on some rocksett to come in before I mount the flash hider.

I personally don't use the rocksett because I've seen issues trying to get it back off later no matter how much you soak it. It also doesn't prevent against galling which can happen with some barrels when they're stainless steel and the muzzle break is stainless as well. I highly suggest nickel anti-seize.

schambers
22 December 2014, 19:02
I've only used rocksett once. Had to soak the muzzle device and barrel for 24 hours in water, but everything separated smoothly.

Just did a quick search for the Nickel anti-seize. Is there a specific product number you recommend for suppressor use?

Ride4frnt
22 December 2014, 19:46
Here's a 9" FORCE Rail, which is more like 9.2" IIRC on a 10.5"

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/IMG_2470_zps821a6984.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/IMG_2470_zps821a6984.jpg.html)

You really know how to get me going don't you? I really need to sell my 12" and get a 9" force.

ETA: don't mention the SanTan lower... Our dearest medic already pissed me off about that this evening...

UWone77
22 December 2014, 20:02
You really know how to get me going don't you? I really need to sell my 12" and get a 9" force.

ETA: don't mention the SanTan lower... Our dearest medic already pissed me off about that this evening...

In my defense, I posted that pic awhile ago.

Is your 12" in good condition? I'm going to need a 12" down the road here for my buddies build, so I could in theory just buy a 9" and trade you, that way everyone is happy.

Ride4frnt
22 December 2014, 20:05
In my defense, I posted that pic awhile ago.

Is your 12" in good condition? I'm going to need a 12" down the road here for my buddies build, so I could in theory just buy a 9" and trade you, that way everyone is happy.

My 12" is brand new still in the original tube. If you'd wanna trade I'd be happy to pay the shipping for both.

UWone77
22 December 2014, 20:06
My 12" is brand new still in the original tube. If you'd wanna trade I'd be happy to pay the shipping for both.

I'll let you know after the holidays. I think his project is getting off the ground soon.

Ride4frnt
22 December 2014, 20:07
I'll let you know after the holidays. I think his project is getting off the ground soon.

No rush. Still gotta file my form 1. Should be filing that in the next two weeks.

schambers
24 December 2014, 15:21
The thing I hate about the holidays is that its takes longer for my weapon parts to come in!

Ordered a geissele 9.5 to satisfy my curiosity. pics of my triumph or failure to be coming soon!

CarbonScoring
24 December 2014, 20:36
Here is my 9.5" MK4 with my 10.5" Aero Precision barrel.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7517/15470746714_241e33af2b_b.jpg

UWone77
24 December 2014, 20:41
Here is my 9.5" MK4 with my 10.5" Aero Precision barrel.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7517/15470746714_c845f18894_b.jpg

CS, loving that rifle. I have a MK2 in 9.5 somewhere, and it's time to build it up after seeing this beauty. Well Done!

DutyUse
25 December 2014, 01:21
Wow Carbon, just wow. Everything I've seen of yours I've been throughly impressed by! :D

Don't answer if you don't want but you've peaked my curiosity ...Do you shoot photos professionally for manufactures?

CarbonScoring
25 December 2014, 08:20
CS, loving that rifle. I have a MK2 in 9.5 somewhere, and it's time to build it up after seeing this beauty. Well Done!

Thanks UW. I wasn't sure if I'd like the 9.5" MK4 as much as my 13", but I have to say it's easily as nice as, if not more comfortable. It's also my first Vltor MUR and I'm thoroughly impressed.


Wow Carbon, just wow. Everything I've seen of yours I've been throughly impressed by! :D

Don't answer if you don't want but you've peaked my curiosity ...Do you shoot photos professionally for manufactures?

I appreciate that. Right now it's just a hobby. Maybe one day....

UWone77
26 December 2014, 08:14
Thanks UW. I wasn't sure if I'd like the 9.5" MK4 as much as my 13", but I have to say it's easily as nice as, if not more comfortable. It's also my first Vltor MUR and I'm thoroughly impressed.



I appreciate that. Right now it's just a hobby. Maybe one day....

I see that you've got a FB page now. That should make it easier for me to direct certain people to take a look at the type of work you're able to do. Make sure you keep consistently adding content, even when your "likes" are just getting started.

schambers
26 December 2014, 08:28
I flinched before the Geissele was shipped and swapped it out for a 10" URX 4. If everything works out, I think it will solve the anxiety I'm having over the handguard clearance.

CarbonScoring
26 December 2014, 08:46
I see that you've got a FB page now. That should make it easier for me to direct certain people to take a look at the type of work you're able to do. Make sure you keep consistently adding content, even when your "likes" are just getting started.

I've been trying to be very regular with the uploads, usually every day or two.

Thanks for the support too, it's really encouraging knowing others like what I do.

Ordnance
26 December 2014, 09:35
To the OP... Are you sure it's really a 10.2" and not a 10.5"? A lot of places didn't update their sites when Noveske changed the length and they're stilling selling 10.2" advertised lengths which are really 10.5".

schambers
26 December 2014, 16:38
To the OP... Are you sure it's really a 10.2" and not a 10.5"? A lot of places didn't update their sites when Noveske changed the length and they're stilling selling 10.2" advertised lengths which are really 10.5".

Holy crap your right. Just looked at the box and it has 10.5" written on the side. Kinda disappointed that Rainier sold it as a 10.2" barrel.

At least that explains why I thought I forgot how to do basic math the other day, and I was getting different numbers between real measurements and manufacturer measurements.

Anyhoo, the way things are working out now, the KAC rail should overlap the muzzle device by about .2" in the rear. Not a big deal since it will still give enough clearance for the break's porting, and the inner diameter of the URX 4 is large enough to hold the 7.62 Saker.

Ordnance
26 December 2014, 16:52
Holy crap your right. Just looked at the box and it has 10.5" written on the side. Kinda disappointed that Rainier sold it as a 10.2" barrel.

At least that explains why I thought I forgot how to do basic math the other day, and I was getting different numbers between real measurements and manufacturer measurements.

Anyhoo, the way things are working out now, the KAC rail should overlap the shoulder of the barrel by about .2" Not a big deal since it will still give enough clearance for the ports on the side of the muzzle defice, and the inner diameter of the URX 4 is large enough to hold the 7.62 Saker.

Figures... The sad part is I've told Rainier twice now that they have the wrong length on both their old site and their new site. One time the guy wanted to argue it out even after I explained to him why they only make 10.5" lengths now and he still insisted it was 10.2" so I had him go measure for himself and low and behold... 10.5". I expect more from a local company...

UWone77
26 December 2014, 16:55
Figures... The sad part is I've told Rainier twice now that they have the wrong length on both their old site and their new site. One time the guy wanted to argue it out even after I explained to him why they only make 10.5" lengths now and he still insisted it was 10.2" so I had him go measure for himself and low and behold... 10.5". I expect more from a local company...

Yeah! You tell'em!

LOL... I immediately thought of your earlier rant when I saw schambers had written he got a 10.5" instead of a 10.2" ... que Ordnance in 3...2....

Ordnance
26 December 2014, 17:12
Yeah! You tell'em!

LOL... I immediately thought of your earlier rant when I saw schambers had written he got a 10.5" instead of a 10.2" ... que Ordnance in 3...2....

Lol... I just don't get it with those guys. They have a GREAT branding and it used to be if you had a question and needed real help you went to them. Now, I wouldn't trust them with a hi-point. I'm going to take your advice and send an email so I can meet with someone to go over all the shit that I worry they don't know is happening. If after that they choose to continue with the same BS I told you about awhile back then it's on them and they'll have to deal with it. Although I still have doubts it will matter since I think they believe they're perfect and we should just be thankful...

Ordnance
26 December 2014, 17:19
Since we're here... Noveske went to 10.5" because they're being cheap. They already produce a 10.5" 5.56 barrel so they figured out it would be cheaper to cut the 300 BO the same length at the same time as the 5.56 barrels. Doesn't matter that John developed it and came up with the lengths he did because it was the most optimal. No instead they figure it would be cheaper for them of course they still charge the premium price and even went so far as to increase dealer cost as well so they can make even more. Hell, they screwed over several dealers who had back orders and when the order was ready they told them they wouldn't honor the dealer pricing when they made the order and if they still wanted the order they'd have to pay the new increased pricing. I have the Noveske 10.5", but I only have it because I was given a great deal on it and Seekin's doesn't pin his barrel. I'm all about "Buy once, cry once" and quality, but when corners start getting cut and CS drops... They better remember that the market is growing and there are a lot of competitors out there gunning for them but they don't have the driving force behind their innovation anymore which was a loss to the entire shooting community...

Rant over... Bah...

alamo5000
28 December 2014, 18:53
The CMR is more like 9.5"

Here's an example of a CMR 9.5" on a 10.3" DD Barrel


http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/IMG_2210_zps81d4e6c6.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/IMG_2210_zps81d4e6c6.jpg.html)
http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/richdkim77/IMG_2208_zps7095ea3a.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/richdkim77/media/IMG_2208_zps7095ea3a.jpg.html)


That is some serious sexiness right there.

schambers
2 January 2015, 18:35
Pics of how the final hand guard and barrel configuration worked out. Noveske 10.5" with a KAC 10" URX 4.

There is between 1-2mm overlap but the Saker will fit inside the hand guard so this shouldn't be a problem.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Rtc4ppflQOY/VKdT1p_JSQI/AAAAAAAAAsU/aIxzMLOb138/w1034-h687-no/DSC02199.JPG

Ps, I know the picture is out of focus but I'm to lazy to take another

CarbonScoring
3 January 2015, 00:02
That will look pretty good with the Saker on there. I'd love to see a shot of the whole upper.

schambers
3 January 2015, 05:43
Posted a pic of the entire weapon in the NFA gallery

cagekicker204
3 January 2015, 07:25
Pics of how the final hand guard and barrel configuration worked out. Noveske 10.5" with a KAC 10" URX 4.

There is between 1-2mm overlap but the Saker will fit inside the hand guard so this shouldn't be a problem.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Rtc4ppflQOY/VKdT1p_JSQI/AAAAAAAAAsU/aIxzMLOb138/w1034-h687-no/DSC02199.JPG

Ps, I know the picture is out of focus but I'm to lazy to take another


That looks nice what is the inside diameter of the urx 4? I wonder if an AAC 762-SDN-6 would work set up like that?

DutyUse
3 January 2015, 07:46
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/03/dce1f42a51d33ca34ccc80527b6910af.jpg

10.5 BA barrel w/ 10" ALG

CarbonScoring
3 January 2015, 07:51
Posted a pic of the entire weapon in the NFA gallery

Didn't realize I was looking at the same rifle. [:D]

That really looks good. I like the URX with the Vltor upper.

schambers
3 January 2015, 08:15
The inner diameter of the URX is 1.55" and the diameter of the Saker is 1.5"

A person at silencerco said that they've mounted a Saker inside a URX 4, so it should be g2g.

Don't know about the dimensions of the SDN. But even if the Saker and SND had identical dimensions, I think a Saker would be easier to mount and un-mount. You more or less unscrew a Saker to remove it and with the SND you would have to activate a latch to free the teeth, and that might be hard or impossible to do when you are talking about .05" of space to work with.

cagekicker204
3 January 2015, 09:00
The inner diameter of the URX is 1.55" and the diameter of the Saker is 1.5"

A person at silencerco said that they've mounted a Saker inside a URX 4, so it should be g2g.

Don't know about the dimensions of the SDN. But even if the Saker and SND had identical dimensions, I think a Saker would be easier to mount and un-mount. You more or less unscrew a Saker to remove it and with the SND you would have to activate a latch to free the teeth, and that might be hard or impossible to do when you are talking about .05" of space to work with.

Thank you I think I may have to wait until I have the can in hand until I buy a rail hope it clears soon. That is a Damn nice rifle you have!

schambers
11 April 2015, 10:11
just closing the loop on this thread.

I expected the Saker to nestle inside the hand guard by 1-2mm but as you can see, it sits about 1mm above the end of the rail.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-l1FN5NgrZt8/VSlSl25e54I/AAAAAAAABbs/XI8MvwAxQU4/w536-h714-no/IMG_1057.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Mh5PA8PYi10/VSlStBkZLHI/AAAAAAAABb0/8Sx_u8GQKJ0/w536-h714-no/IMG_1058.JPG

UWone77
11 April 2015, 10:19
just closing the loop on this thread.

I expected the Saker to nestle inside the hand guard by 1-2mm but as you can see, it sits about 1mm above the end of the rail.



Not a big URX 4 fan myself, but that looks good with the saker. Are you going to use KAC keymod panel covers?

schambers
11 April 2015, 11:01
Not a big URX 4 fan myself, but that looks good with the saker. Are you going to use KAC keymod panel covers?

Wasn't planning on using panel covers at all actually. The mat/rough texture is grippy enough for me now, and I figure that by the time the keymod holes get messed up enough to be out of spec, some new handguard hotness will be the on the market.

UWone77
11 April 2015, 11:04
Wasn't planning on using panel covers at all actually. The mat/rough texture is grippy enough for me now, and I figure that by the time the keymod holes get messed up enough to be out of spec, some new handguard hotness will be the on the market.

Well let me know if you want to try out some KAC Keymod covers. I've got a package collecting dust over here... and a wife breathing down my neck to clean out my parts bins. [:D]

schambers
11 April 2015, 12:24
Well let me know if you want to try out some KAC Keymod covers. I've got a package collecting dust over here... and a wife breathing down my neck to clean out my parts bins. [:D]

lol. will do. thanks

rob_s
21 April 2015, 08:14
I have a similar question, that maybe someone can answer...

12.5" Noveske barrel (http://www.shopnoveske.com/collections/barrels/products/diplomat-5-56mm-barrel), Daniel Defense Lite Rail III 12.0 (https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/ar15-lite-rail-iii/ar15-lite-rail-iiitm-12-0-rifle.html), Saker/Omega Mount (http://www.store.silencerco.com/collections/center-fire-rifle/products/specwar-trifecta-flash-hider)?