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ddearmon2010
7 December 2014, 08:49
Michael Brown Jr. Law? Make it mandatory for cops to wear body cameras. Michael Brown parents petition. I know we have a lot of LEO on here so what is everyone's thoughts? Personally I'm in the fence on this one. Think it is a good idea so this type of shit doesn't happen. Al Sharpton would have to find a new job. The down side is added equip LEO would have to wear.

Ordnance
7 December 2014, 09:00
A lot of Depts over here went to body cameras and my opinion is GREAT! All these people think it will shed light on the behavior of LEOs but they fail to realize it will also video tape every retard out there who wants make fraudulent allegations. Now when they're in court the Judge, Jurors, and all their friends can see their behavior for what it is. When some idiot robs a store then tries to make a go for the officers weapon they can get video footage of it and post the entire video on a public page so that way CNN, CBS, NBC, etc can't just edit 75% of it out.

I also think it would be a good training tool for the Duty Sergeants or LT's to review and work with in improving tactics and behavior if there are complaints and they see an issue before it turns into a Tyrant with a badge getting a lawsuit brought against Dept which is bad for everyone including the public.

alamo5000
7 December 2014, 09:13
I am not a LEO but I am friends with about 20 officers. Sometimes they come over and we shoot or they take me to the police range and we shoot there. 95% of the officers are great. .5% can be very bad apples. Don't get me wrong...I think officers are great and the deal with a lot of bullshit.

I have personal experience with bad apples though. For the 95% it will be just like Ordnance said. And if there is ever a dispute....look at the tapes. It will end a lot of litigation and other crap going on...

Edit to reflect the .5%

alamo5000
7 December 2014, 09:18
But I am very opposed to them naming a law after that asshole.

GaSwamper
7 December 2014, 09:24
But I am very opposed to them naming a law after that asshole.

Yep. More like LEO Protection Act or something. I hate to see it come to this but yes, I would go for it. Leaves no room for questions or lies.

alamo5000
7 December 2014, 09:31
Naming a law after him or even referring to a law like that implies that he was a victim of the cops....

Hmac
7 December 2014, 09:32
I think it's great, and if I was an LEO I would WANT a body camera for my own protection. I suspect that, for the most part, body cameras won't show what the proponents think it will show.

six8
7 December 2014, 09:56
Naming a law after him or even referring to a law like that implies that he was a victim of the cops....

Great point


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ordnance
7 December 2014, 10:18
But I am very opposed to them naming a law after that asshole.

Didn't even consider that... Great point!

MonkeyBomb
7 December 2014, 11:11
I think they help in some instances but cause major headaches people don't think about. Massive storage problems. That's a whole lot of data every day. Stuff breaks. Now every time there is a mechanical breakdown automatically the cops are hiding something. I can't keep a radio working I can't imagine how bad a camera is. I have been through a whole ton of digital cameras that haven't been up to task in my off duty goofing around. They haven't been through a fight.

Then you add freedom of information requests. Time and money most agencies don't have for massive amounts of information.

Unfortunately juries believe CSI is real and if it wasn't on video it didn't happen.

It is going to have a massive chilling effect on street informants. I have a whole boatload of people I talk to in the community that talk to me about what goes on in the neighborhood. They do it because they trust me and they know I will address the crimes without dragging them into it. No way in hell are they going to do that while being video taped.

Privacy issues, Sorry you aren't coming into my home while video taping anything. Unless i'ts a major crime scene that ain't happening. Remember this is public record and anyone can get a hold of that.

For me. I start and end my day in my drive way. Lets go back to public record.

When does it get turned on and off? I can tell you you don't want to witness my whole day or a private conversation I have on a break. And I do get breaks. Cops work a 24-7 schedule. Life, bills and kids don't stop because of the job. I rarely see my family so the kids and wife get a goodnight call when I'm working if I can, because they rarely see me.

How many hours of report writing are we willing to archive. What if I have to drop a duece.

Now we have an issue of turning it on for a traffic stop. I can tell you if I stop someone and they jump out of a car turning on a camera is a last priority. Meeting the threat is my top priority.

People have this bizarre idea that LEO's sign a suicide pact when they sign up. Nope. I will damn sure put myself in harms way to protect the innocent. Even if they are just innocent for the moment. But I'm not sacrificing my life for anyone. They are going to have to take it from me I'm not giving it up and it won't be pretty to watch.

Mike Browns parents never wanted justice. They wanted revenge. A national bill based on the act of a thug who wanted to attack a cop is bunk. Science proved it beyond a doubt. But lets not let facts get in the way.

I am 100% against anything implemented on a national level for police. If you tried to drop LAPD into my AO there would be an all out revolt. If you Put my agency in LA the criminals would have a hay day. Different worlds.

With that said I wouldn't mind having a camera that was on whenever I'm out of the squad on any call or on a Traffic or citizen contact. But i also want the ability to turn it off so a Grandmother can tall me about the guy selling heroine to 14 year olds down the street or the pedophile next door without her having to worry about getting labeled a snitch and being targeted.


The whole scope of this movement is to demonize law enforcement. I saw a poster stating that 5% of cops were bad. My god if it were that high we would have a huge problem. Its realistically about a 10th of a percent. If you're not in the business it may be easy to believe int he thin blue line of silence. I will tell you without a doubt we don't want turds working with us. If you lie cheat steal or act like an ass you just make my job harder. If you do that I will do my best to drum you out and to charge you criminally if I can. I don't know anyone who feels differently about it.

But this is also one of the few jobs that if one guy in Rhode Island does something stupid for some odd reason a cop in Kansas has to answer for it. The media has been doing their dead best to beat this horse and fan the flames. I am very lucky to live in a community that by a large margin supports us and I love to live and work here. There are still plenty of turds and agitators but they get shut down pretty fast by the decent people. Now if one of us does something bad they will also pig pile on it like nobodies business as they should.

I would hate to work in an area that had no support. A bad attitude would be easy to get. Unfortunately it seems the media wants that disconnect.

GOST
7 December 2014, 11:23
This whole thing has got more press than it ever deserved. You're more likely to choke drinking your morning coffee and die than get shot by a cop. This whole thing just needs to be squashed, a percentage of the public will never like cops. If cops WANT to wear cameras then power to them. It should NEVER be mandatory.

GOST
7 December 2014, 11:24
Making it mandatory to wear cameras is opening a door that will not be able to be shut.

Computalotapus
7 December 2014, 11:48
I think they help in some instances but cause major headaches people don't think about. Massive storage problems. That's a whole lot of data every day. Stuff breaks. Now every time there is a mechanical breakdown automatically the cops are hiding something. I can't keep a radio working I can't imagine how bad a camera is. I have been through a whole ton of digital cameras that haven't been up to task in my off duty goofing around. They haven't been through a fight.

Then you add freedom of information requests. Time and money most agencies don't have for massive amounts of information.

Unfortunately juries believe CSI is real and if it wasn't on video it didn't happen.

It is going to have a massive chilling effect on street informants. I have a whole boatload of people I talk to in the community that talk to me about what goes on in the neighborhood. They do it because they trust me and they know I will address the crimes without dragging them into it. No way in hell are they going to do that while being video taped.

Privacy issues, Sorry you aren't coming into my home while video taping anything. Unless i'ts a major crime scene that ain't happening. Remember this is public record and anyone can get a hold of that.

For me. I start and end my day in my drive way. Lets go back to public record.

When does it get turned on and off? I can tell you you don't want to witness my whole day or a private conversation I have on a break. And I do get breaks. Cops work a 24-7 schedule. Life, bills and kids don't stop because of the job. I rarely see my family so the kids and wife get a goodnight call when I'm working if I can, because they rarely see me.

How many hours of report writing are we willing to archive. What if I have to drop a duece.

Now we have an issue of turning it on for a traffic stop. I can tell you if I stop someone and they jump out of a car turning on a camera is a last priority. Meeting the threat is my top priority.

People have this bizarre idea that LEO's sign a suicide pact when they sign up. Nope. I will damn sure put myself in harms way to protect the innocent. Even if they are just innocent for the moment. But I'm not sacrificing my life for anyone. They are going to have to take it from me I'm not giving it up and it won't be pretty to watch.

Mike Browns parents never wanted justice. They wanted revenge. A national bill based on the act of a thug who wanted to attack a cop is bunk. Science proved it beyond a doubt. But lets not let facts get in the way.

I am 100% against anything implemented on a national level for police. If you tried to drop LAPD into my AO there would be an all out revolt. If you Put my agency in LA the criminals would have a hay day. Different worlds.

With that said I wouldn't mind having a camera that was on whenever I'm out of the squad on any call or on a Traffic or citizen contact. But i also want the ability to turn it off so a Grandmother can tall me about the guy selling heroine to 14 year olds down the street or the pedophile next door without her having to worry about getting labeled a snitch and being targeted.


The whole scope of this movement is to demonize law enforcement. I saw a poster stating that 5% of cops were bad. My god if it were that high we would have a huge problem. Its realistically about a 10th of a percent. If you're not in the business it may be easy to believe int he thin blue line of silence. I will tell you without a doubt we don't want turds working with us. If you lie cheat steal or act like an ass you just make my job harder. If you do that I will do my best to drum you out and to charge you criminally if I can. I don't know anyone who feels differently about it.

But this is also one of the few jobs that if one guy in Rhode Island does something stupid for some odd reason a cop in Kansas has to answer for it. The media has been doing their dead best to beat this horse and fan the flames. I am very lucky to live in a community that by a large margin supports us and I love to live and work here. There are still plenty of turds and agitators but they get shut down pretty fast by the decent people. Now if one of us does something bad they will also pig pile on it like nobodies business as they should.

I would hate to work in an area that had no support. A bad attitude would be easy to get. Unfortunately it seems the media wants that disconnect.

Best post ever!

alamo5000
7 December 2014, 11:57
I saw a poster stating that 5% of cops were bad. My god if it were that high we would have a huge problem. Its realistically about a 10th of a percent.

Just for record keeping purposes my comment wasn't trying to be statistical but rather 'illustrative' stating that the vast majority are not bad. It wasn't meant to be taken literally in that sense of the word.

ddearmon2010
7 December 2014, 12:00
I think they help in some instances but cause major headaches people don't think about. Massive storage problems. That's a whole lot of data every day. Stuff breaks. Now every time there is a mechanical breakdown automatically the cops are hiding something. I can't keep a radio working I can't imagine how bad a camera is. I have been through a whole ton of digital cameras that haven't been up to task in my off duty goofing around. They haven't been through a fight.

Then you add freedom of information requests. Time and money most agencies don't have for massive amounts of information.

Unfortunately juries believe CSI is real and if it wasn't on video it didn't happen.

It is going to have a massive chilling effect on street informants. I have a whole boatload of people I talk to in the community that talk to me about what goes on in the neighborhood. They do it because they trust me and they know I will address the crimes without dragging them into it. No way in hell are they going to do that while being video taped.

Privacy issues, Sorry you aren't coming into my home while video taping anything. Unless i'ts a major crime scene that ain't happening. Remember this is public record and anyone can get a hold of that.

For me. I start and end my day in my drive way. Lets go back to public record.

When does it get turned on and off? I can tell you you don't want to witness my whole day or a private conversation I have on a break. And I do get breaks. Cops work a 24-7 schedule. Life, bills and kids don't stop because of the job. I rarely see my family so the kids and wife get a goodnight call when I'm working if I can, because they rarely see me.

How many hours of report writing are we willing to archive. What if I have to drop a duece.

Now we have an issue of turning it on for a traffic stop. I can tell you if I stop someone and they jump out of a car turning on a camera is a last priority. Meeting the threat is my top priority.

People have this bizarre idea that LEO's sign a suicide pact when they sign up. Nope. I will damn sure put myself in harms way to protect the innocent. Even if they are just innocent for the moment. But I'm not sacrificing my life for anyone. They are going to have to take it from me I'm not giving it up and it won't be pretty to watch.

Mike Browns parents never wanted justice. They wanted revenge. A national bill based on the act of a thug who wanted to attack a cop is bunk. Science proved it beyond a doubt. But lets not let facts get in the way.

I am 100% against anything implemented on a national level for police. If you tried to drop LAPD into my AO there would be an all out revolt. If you Put my agency in LA the criminals would have a hay day. Different worlds.

With that said I wouldn't mind having a camera that was on whenever I'm out of the squad on any call or on a Traffic or citizen contact. But i also want the ability to turn it off so a Grandmother can tall me about the guy selling heroine to 14 year olds down the street or the pedophile next door without her having to worry about getting labeled a snitch and being targeted.


The whole scope of this movement is to demonize law enforcement. I saw a poster stating that 5% of cops were bad. My god if it were that high we would have a huge problem. Its realistically about a 10th of a percent. If you're not in the business it may be easy to believe int he thin blue line of silence. I will tell you without a doubt we don't want turds working with us. If you lie cheat steal or act like an ass you just make my job harder. If you do that I will do my best to drum you out and to charge you criminally if I can. I don't know anyone who feels differently about it.

But this is also one of the few jobs that if one guy in Rhode Island does something stupid for some odd reason a cop in Kansas has to answer for it. The media has been doing their dead best to beat this horse and fan the flames. I am very lucky to live in a community that by a large margin supports us and I love to live and work here. There are still plenty of turds and agitators but they get shut down pretty fast by the decent people. Now if one of us does something bad they will also pig pile on it like nobodies business as they should.

I would hate to work in an area that had no support. A bad attitude would be easy to get. Unfortunately it seems the media wants that disconnect.

I like your take on this and you just changed my view. did not think of the privacy issue or the added cost that would eventually come out of my pocket.

UWone77
7 December 2014, 12:11
Monkeybomb pretty much nailed it.

I'm not opposed to wearing a camera. Like someone said before, it would expose most of the asshats that make bogus complaints or claim in court they didn't do something, when in fact they did. There needs to be a ton of issues addressed before the cameras go into play however.

We already have several jackasses asking for every email and computer terminal note officers send to each other. Just gathering all that information stifles several employees for weeks to meet this information request. Imagine if dozens of people asked for every hour those cameras were on.

In my experience, calls go sideways so fast and unexpectedly at times, you'd never remember to turn the camera on. As mentioned, if I forget to turn my camera on, am I hiding something?

I'm 100% against turning the camera on during my entire 10 hour shift. After Officer Jones fucks a call up, Officer Johnson and I are going to talk shit, joke, and then go to the next call. That doesn't need to be recorded. Neither does my post Ferguson rants with my squad, while having my morning coffee.

Just for the record, I don't know how it is for LEO's in your neck of the woods, but here, there is no "thin blue line code of silence." If it weren't for officer on officer complaints, Internal Affairs would have about 1/2 the work load. If you do some dirty shit around other officers, you will be dimed out, as you should be.

alamo5000
7 December 2014, 12:40
I finally got home and read the post from Monkeybomb and Uwone.... sounds very very reasonable. Not being a cop myself it's refreshing to read other perspectives.

In the end I after seeing these other posts I am not sure if cameras would fix anything at all. In some ways yes it would fix things, in others... it's gonna lead to all kinds of stuff. If officer A makes a off color joke to his partner and then 5 hours later stops someone they are going to be trying to prove 'racist predisposition' or all that....

I don't know... at this point I can see how all that would really play out in the real world.

Thanks for shedding more light on it.

cagekicker204
7 December 2014, 13:22
I oppose the law but support the idea for individual departments. I work in a state prison where we have closed circut television monitoring 24/7 of almost the entire institution (minus individual cells, showers, staff restrooms*and such), the system has many limitations to it. The camera system we have allows constant monitoring of the fence line and all inmate movement throughout the camp. The system records everything and stores it for 10 days I believe, however it is massive physically almost 200 cameras, computers taking up a large room, monitor station and lots of training to operate. This system has saved the state tons of money on civil service discipline simply because it takes the opportunity to make false accusations. When I started I corrections it was not uncommon for an inmate to have words with an officer one day and be talking to the Lt the next morning with a black eye saying officer x punched me and threatened my life. This resulted in the suspension pending investigation of the officer and anyone else on the post that day costing massive overtime to fill an understaffed jail. Now the tape is reviewed and the inmate can be charged. That being said Michael Brown is not a martyr, he does not deserve to be immortalized. I teach my kids that if you make a decision, you must live with the consequences. If your budget allows body cams by all means get them but keep the government out of it, they have better things to worry about than causing a burden on the smaller departments and possibly reducing the amount of officers on the road at any given time. I would not hesitate to wear a camera at work all day, I already knew taking my job everything I do during shift is public record, I wish I had them in my transport van(my gig) to alleviate claims. Ive had multiple law suits filed, claims made, fact findings held and continue to do the right thing and have 0 worries about it more cameras please, they have saved my butt more than once. My rambling rant is over thanks for listening.

Ordnance
7 December 2014, 14:11
I think they help in some instances but cause major headaches people don't think about. Massive storage problems. That's a whole lot of data every day. Stuff breaks. Now every time there is a mechanical breakdown automatically the cops are hiding something. I can't keep a radio working I can't imagine how bad a camera is. I have been through a whole ton of digital cameras that haven't been up to task in my off duty goofing around. They haven't been through a fight.

Then you add freedom of information requests. Time and money most agencies don't have for massive amounts of information.

Unfortunately juries believe CSI is real and if it wasn't on video it didn't happen.

It is going to have a massive chilling effect on street informants. I have a whole boatload of people I talk to in the community that talk to me about what goes on in the neighborhood. They do it because they trust me and they know I will address the crimes without dragging them into it. No way in hell are they going to do that while being video taped.

Privacy issues, Sorry you aren't coming into my home while video taping anything. Unless i'ts a major crime scene that ain't happening. Remember this is public record and anyone can get a hold of that.

For me. I start and end my day in my drive way. Lets go back to public record.

When does it get turned on and off? I can tell you you don't want to witness my whole day or a private conversation I have on a break. And I do get breaks. Cops work a 24-7 schedule. Life, bills and kids don't stop because of the job. I rarely see my family so the kids and wife get a goodnight call when I'm working if I can, because they rarely see me.

How many hours of report writing are we willing to archive. What if I have to drop a duece.

Now we have an issue of turning it on for a traffic stop. I can tell you if I stop someone and they jump out of a car turning on a camera is a last priority. Meeting the threat is my top priority.

People have this bizarre idea that LEO's sign a suicide pact when they sign up. Nope. I will damn sure put myself in harms way to protect the innocent. Even if they are just innocent for the moment. But I'm not sacrificing my life for anyone. They are going to have to take it from me I'm not giving it up and it won't be pretty to watch.

Mike Browns parents never wanted justice. They wanted revenge. A national bill based on the act of a thug who wanted to attack a cop is bunk. Science proved it beyond a doubt. But lets not let facts get in the way.

I am 100% against anything implemented on a national level for police. If you tried to drop LAPD into my AO there would be an all out revolt. If you Put my agency in LA the criminals would have a hay day. Different worlds.

With that said I wouldn't mind having a camera that was on whenever I'm out of the squad on any call or on a Traffic or citizen contact. But i also want the ability to turn it off so a Grandmother can tall me about the guy selling heroine to 14 year olds down the street or the pedophile next door without her having to worry about getting labeled a snitch and being targeted.


The whole scope of this movement is to demonize law enforcement. I saw a poster stating that 5% of cops were bad. My god if it were that high we would have a huge problem. Its realistically about a 10th of a percent. If you're not in the business it may be easy to believe int he thin blue line of silence. I will tell you without a doubt we don't want turds working with us. If you lie cheat steal or act like an ass you just make my job harder. If you do that I will do my best to drum you out and to charge you criminally if I can. I don't know anyone who feels differently about it.

But this is also one of the few jobs that if one guy in Rhode Island does something stupid for some odd reason a cop in Kansas has to answer for it. The media has been doing their dead best to beat this horse and fan the flames. I am very lucky to live in a community that by a large margin supports us and I love to live and work here. There are still plenty of turds and agitators but they get shut down pretty fast by the decent people. Now if one of us does something bad they will also pig pile on it like nobodies business as they should.

I would hate to work in an area that had no support. A bad attitude would be easy to get. Unfortunately it seems the media wants that disconnect.

Although I understand and agree with a lot of what you're saying, I disagree on some as well. Storage is not an excuse anymore with the current technology. It's not worth getting into pages of details and argument, but there are ways to manage it. I agree about not needing it on a National level, but if you're a street cop in NY and constantly dealing with arrests then why not? It only helps to aid you in convicting people and hopefully taking them off the streets. I also think there's a clear difference between a Detective working with UI and a Patrol Officer. I get though that safety comes first and I can see where people are going to pull that bullshit of "Why didn't you turn it on?" but you'll always have that at some level. You also need to remember that for some Officers it can also help improve safety and protect the Dept if they're in areas plagued with people just looking for an opportunity ie Ferguson right now. If people know you're wearing a camera then they might be a little less likely to think they can pull some shit and get away with it. Granted bad people will always be bad people and undeterred. I guess the idea has it merits but a lot of caveats... the question is with the current Social attitude where people look for every excuse to try and win the lottery through civil suits would it help or hinder? You all make very good points though that I must admit I never considered...

GOST
7 December 2014, 14:26
The problem with this petition though is that the cop wasn't the problem. This law is for neither the benefit nor protection of our law enforcement. Our law enforcement shouldn't be penalized for doing their job. The problem is that some of the public is mad that they sent a cop into a hostile environment armed and he did his job.

Ordnance
7 December 2014, 14:46
Just to be clear, I'm not arguing in defense of the petition or the retard that tried to bring a fist to a gun party. I was merely stating my reasoning for agreeing with the patrol cameras.

GOST
7 December 2014, 14:59
I understand, I'm just stating why there should not be a law making cameras mandatory.

Aberration79
7 December 2014, 15:00
I agree with them, not just for officer accountability, but also for the protection of the officer. I think the Brown situation is a very poor one. But the fact is there are many situations in which the officer is not just doing their job, and they are doing nothing but aggravating and escalating the violence. Thanks to cameras we get to see far more of this, instead of just hearing about it and dismissing it.

If people think they will make that much of a difference though, one only needs to look at the Eric Garner situation, or even better the Kelly Thomas situation. No matter what we do, officers will rarely be indicted of crimes because they are seen as 'doing their jobs'.

The problem though, is not law enforcement officers. I think a part of the problem is the culture of enforcement at all costs. And the stupidity of the people clamoring for more law. The more law there is, the more enforcement there is. Every situation of enforcement comes with the chance that there will be abuse, injury, or death. What really needs to change is people need to consider are they willing to kill someone to collect a tax on a cigarette.

MonkeyBomb
7 December 2014, 15:12
I can tell you without a doubt storage is an issue here. Digital photographs alone have us running at 95 percent of our storage capacity on our servers right now.

I do not work for a small agency we have our own IT department and we are trying to get more storage space just to meet our needs now. I could not imagine having to store 10 hours a day of footage for only 500 officers.

You have to understand. Not all agencies have great budgets. Personnel are the main budget.

Many agencies are running on the best technology that was available 10 or 20 years ago.

It really is about the cash. Adding infrastructure cost money.

Now when you add unfunded mandates to an agency it burdens them even more.

I would love to have the current technology. But its not in the budget.

We are trying to stay staffed and keep cars on the road. In many places this is the reality.

GOST
7 December 2014, 15:25
I agree with them, not just for officer accountability, but also for the protection of the officer. I think the Brown situation is a very poor one. But the fact is there are many situations in which the officer is not just doing their job, and they are doing nothing but aggravating and escalating the violence. Thanks to cameras we get to see far more of this, instead of just hearing about it and dismissing it.

Another problem with this is if cameras are mandatory and you're worried about accountability, where does it stop? Are they gonna put a camera on every worker in the work force? Will I be held accountable for picking my nose on company time, and be required to pay the company back for wasting time? We don't need more things mandated, we need to appreciate the ones trying to protect us.

UWone77
7 December 2014, 15:29
I agree with them, not just for officer accountability, but also for the protection of the officer. I think the Brown situation is a very poor one. But the fact is there are many situations in which the officer is not just doing their job, and they are doing nothing but aggravating and escalating the violence. Thanks to cameras we get to see far more of this, instead of just hearing about it and dismissing it.

If people think they will make that much of a difference though, one only needs to look at the Eric Garner situation, or even better the Kelly Thomas situation. No matter what we do, officers will rarely be indicted of crimes because they are seen as 'doing their jobs'.

The problem though, is not law enforcement officers. I think a part of the problem is the culture of enforcement at all costs. And the stupidity of the people clamoring for more law. The more law there is, the more enforcement there is. Every situation of enforcement comes with the chance that there will be abuse, injury, or death. What really needs to change is people need to consider are they willing to kill someone to collect a tax on a cigarette.

Officers are rarely indicted, because these things are tried in a court of law, not public opinion.

Calico Jack
7 December 2014, 15:57
Speaking for myself and most of the members of my department I can say Our issue with the cameras is the lack of trust with the management of my department. We have a lot of do as I say and not as I do at the Lieutenant and above level.

Ordnance
7 December 2014, 15:59
I can tell you without a doubt storage is an issue here. Digital photographs alone have us running at 95 percent of our storage capacity on our servers right now.

I do not work for a small agency we have our own IT department and we are trying to get more storage space just to meet our needs now. I could not imagine having to store 10 hours a day of footage for only 500 officers.

You have to understand. Not all agencies have great budgets. Personnel are the main budget.

Many agencies are running on the best technology that was available 10 or 20 years ago.

It really is about the cash. Adding infrastructure cost money.

Now when you add unfunded mandates to an agency it burdens them even more.

I would love to have the current technology. But its not in the budget.

We are trying to stay staffed and keep cars on the road. In many places this is the reality.

We could go on for pages in regards to storage options, but yeah there's nothing that can be done for under funded Depts. The public seems to think ERS is free and when they see issues with crime they jump to assume funds are wasted as opposed to not having enough.

Ordnance
7 December 2014, 16:02
Officers are rarely indicted, because these things are tried in a court of law, not public opinion.

A problem I think you're going to see more of is when the court of law starts making rulings less in favor of the law and more in favor of the public opinion.

Computalotapus
7 December 2014, 16:11
Where does it stop? Make it mandatory for them to put a body camera on and stuff will still happen regardless because video is up for interpretation. You can watch a video and get conflicting opinions on what happened and what could have happened. The why didn't you do one thing versus another? Then before you know it the government will want to put a body camera on every citizen. I bet that would go over well with the general public. Yes an officer of the law is accountable for their actions not only on duty but off duty as well. They have to watch what they post on social media because of how the public might view them. I think that every citizen needs to be held accountable for their actions just as much as an officer of the law. A officer should never be put in the situation to have to use their weapon to take another persons life but its gonna happen because you have Joe Dirtbag that doesn't think they should be held accountable for their criminal actions. And Joe Dirtbag can give two f@%ks about anyone or anything except themselves. When Joe Dirtbag jeopardizes the lives of the contributing members of society or the lives of an officer that is when use of deadly force comes into play.

The sad part about all of this is this dickbag's parents are so busy pointing fingers on who to blame for their thugass kids death it blows my mind. I wonder if behind closed doors have they asked their selves what they could have done differently to make sure their child was never in that situation. At what point do they accept that their parenting could have changed the outcome of that kids life? When I was growing up and lived with my mom we lived in a all black neighborhood, seriously not another white family anywhere. I went to an all black school pretty much ( 60 white students in a 6A school ). I was subjected to extreme hate and racism. Been in my fair share of fights just because I was white. My nose has been broken 7 times ( 2 as an adult ) stiches in the back of my head from being hit with a bat. I have had more boxer breaks in my hands than Mohammed Ali. I was raised right by my dad and stepmom and grandparents not by my mom. Their ideals are what led me to be a better person not my mothers. I see my sister and she is just like my mom. She has 5 kids from 3 different baby daddy all of which are currently serving time in state or federal facilities.

Micheal Brown's step dead up scream "F@%k the Police" and "We want Justice" leads me to believe that kid is the direct result of their upbringing, I mean how could an upstanding citizen come from that upbringing. This isn't a race issue as I have seen more than enough trailer trash rednecks in my lifetime with the same mentality. Ignorant people that breed and raise ignorant children will be the downfall of our way of life. The more the government keeps handing out to these poor souls that have been oppressed so much they can no longer function in society and need a free lifestyle provided to them by the working class, the more we will see BS like this. And it is hand fed to the drama seeking soul leeching community leaders like brother al Sharpton by the media because it makes for good tv for those same ignorant people who sit at home all day watching tv while the working class is out making life easy for the poor oppressed souls. Well all I have for them is a big F and an even bigger U.
/end rant

Soisauss
7 December 2014, 16:11
Naming a law after him or even referring to a law like that implies that he was a victim of the cops....
This.

I firmly believe it should be named something like the Leo protection act as mentioned above. I personally have Leo friends and they're all great. You do have bad apples and all it takes is one bad apple to ruin a batch. But that's without say for almost everything in society.

My state already issue body cams and personally it's a great tool for both sides.

Soisauss
7 December 2014, 16:16
I think they help in some instances but cause major headaches people don't think about. Massive storage problems. That's a whole lot of data every day. Stuff breaks. Now every time there is a mechanical breakdown automatically the cops are hiding something. I can't keep a radio working I can't imagine how bad a camera is. I have been through a whole ton of digital cameras that haven't been up to task in my off duty goofing around. They haven't been through a fight.

Then you add freedom of information requests. Time and money most agencies don't have for massive amounts of information.

Unfortunately juries believe CSI is real and if it wasn't on video it didn't happen.

It is going to have a massive chilling effect on street informants. I have a whole boatload of people I talk to in the community that talk to me about what goes on in the neighborhood. They do it because they trust me and they know I will address the crimes without dragging them into it. No way in hell are they going to do that while being video taped.

Privacy issues, Sorry you aren't coming into my home while video taping anything. Unless i'ts a major crime scene that ain't happening. Remember this is public record and anyone can get a hold of that.

For me. I start and end my day in my drive way. Lets go back to public record.

When does it get turned on and off? I can tell you you don't want to witness my whole day or a private conversation I have on a break. And I do get breaks. Cops work a 24-7 schedule. Life, bills and kids don't stop because of the job. I rarely see my family so the kids and wife get a goodnight call when I'm working if I can, because they rarely see me.

How many hours of report writing are we willing to archive. What if I have to drop a duece.

Now we have an issue of turning it on for a traffic stop. I can tell you if I stop someone and they jump out of a car turning on a camera is a last priority. Meeting the threat is my top priority.

People have this bizarre idea that LEO's sign a suicide pact when they sign up. Nope. I will damn sure put myself in harms way to protect the innocent. Even if they are just innocent for the moment. But I'm not sacrificing my life for anyone. They are going to have to take it from me I'm not giving it up and it won't be pretty to watch.

Mike Browns parents never wanted justice. They wanted revenge. A national bill based on the act of a thug who wanted to attack a cop is bunk. Science proved it beyond a doubt. But lets not let facts get in the way.

I am 100% against anything implemented on a national level for police. If you tried to drop LAPD into my AO there would be an all out revolt. If you Put my agency in LA the criminals would have a hay day. Different worlds.

With that said I wouldn't mind having a camera that was on whenever I'm out of the squad on any call or on a Traffic or citizen contact. But i also want the ability to turn it off so a Grandmother can tall me about the guy selling heroine to 14 year olds down the street or the pedophile next door without her having to worry about getting labeled a snitch and being targeted.


The whole scope of this movement is to demonize law enforcement. I saw a poster stating that 5% of cops were bad. My god if it were that high we would have a huge problem. Its realistically about a 10th of a percent. If you're not in the business it may be easy to believe int he thin blue line of silence. I will tell you without a doubt we don't want turds working with us. If you lie cheat steal or act like an ass you just make my job harder. If you do that I will do my best to drum you out and to charge you criminally if I can. I don't know anyone who feels differently about it.

But this is also one of the few jobs that if one guy in Rhode Island does something stupid for some odd reason a cop in Kansas has to answer for it. The media has been doing their dead best to beat this horse and fan the flames. I am very lucky to live in a community that by a large margin supports us and I love to live and work here. There are still plenty of turds and agitators but they get shut down pretty fast by the decent people. Now if one of us does something bad they will also pig pile on it like nobodies business as they should.

I would hate to work in an area that had no support. A bad attitude would be easy to get. Unfortunately it seems the media wants that disconnect.

Post of the year award?
I think so.

voodoo_man
7 December 2014, 16:18
I've had this convo with my coworkers and supervisors a few times.

The short answer - it will not work the way most people, in the general public, hope it will.

Naming a law after someone who attempted to kill a police officer is about the dumbest thing I have seen from this admin.

alamo5000
7 December 2014, 16:19
The more this gets dissected the more I think it would be a bad idea. First a federal mandate is rarely a good idea. Washington DC is writing a check that they will tell your city and county to pay for. Aside from cost I am not sure this would deter those who are up to no good. Good cops (the 99.5%) will still be good... and the .5 will still do stupid stuff. Some places might need it far more than others but not every place needs this.

In concept sure, the cops have cameras on their cars... the dash cam records a lot of stuff. But that still doesn't stop everything. Nor will these other cameras. You can't legislate someone into being a good person or a good employee or especially a good manager. And in those places that have a culture of doing wrong, or even overlooking bad behavior... a camera won't fix those internal problems.

GOST
7 December 2014, 16:24
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Franklin's Contributions to the Conference on February 17 (III) Fri, Feb 17, 1775

Ordnance
7 December 2014, 16:32
You mean like when the step-dad shouted "Burn this B!#@H down!" and they should have immediately arrested his ass for Inciting a Riot... [crazy]

alamo5000
7 December 2014, 16:35
Naming a law after someone who attempted to kill a police officer is about the dumbest thing I have seen from this admin.

That's one of the first things I saw that jumped out at me. It makes me sick to my stomach.

Ordnance
7 December 2014, 16:37
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Franklin's Contributions to the Conference on February 17 (III) Fri, Feb 17, 1775

He wasn't speaking in regards to one doing their job... let's not go this direction with the discussion.

WHSmithIV
7 December 2014, 16:41
Making it mandatory to wear cameras is opening a door that will not be able to be shut.

We don't need to open that Pandora's box. Body camera's isn't a great idea, not to mention the cost of them. There is camera footage of that dirtbag stealing cigars and roughing up the store clerk. The autopsy shows where he was shot and what was happening. Don't attack a cop, you don't get shot. That's pretty simple.

WHSmithIV
7 December 2014, 16:44
That's one of the first things I saw that jumped out at me. It makes me sick to my stomach.

They tried it with the Martin case too. Gets shot bashing a guys head into a sidewalk and then they wanted to name a new piece of crap legislation after him. Criminals get shot. So, don't be a criminal.

MonkeyBomb
7 December 2014, 16:53
A problem I think you're going to see more of is when the court of law starts making rulings less in favor of the law and more in favor of the public opinion.



When public opinion starts to trump the law I will take off the badge and duty belt and walk away. There would be no reason to continue on the job.

At the rate things are going I may pop smoke as soon as my number comes up. I was planning on pulling the plug at 33 years.

WHSmithIV
7 December 2014, 17:13
I feel for all you LEO's. I really do. The only stint I had in enforcement was my stint in Shore Patrol in the Navy. You guys deal with the crap of society every day. I don't give LEO's any crap to deal with. I give them respect because they deserve it along with my thanks for doing the job they do. I ran out of gas on the highway a couple weeks ago. Just forgot to get gas when I left work the night before because I was tired. Called one of our deputies, he brought me out a couple gallons to get me into town. That's the kind of help you get from law enforcement when you give them the respect and appreciation that they deserve.

GOST
7 December 2014, 17:14
He wasn't speaking in regards to one doing their job... let's not go this direction with the discussion.

But giving up your right on whether or not you choose to wear a camera to possibly buy you public opinion favor is.

GOST
7 December 2014, 17:20
To me making a law enforcement officer wear a camera to make sure he's doing his job is a bad idea. I would hate for them to make me wear a camera at work to make sure I'm not goofing off.

WHSmithIV
7 December 2014, 17:31
To me making a law enforcement officer wear a camera to make sure he's doing his job is a bad idea. I would hate for them to make me wear a camera at work to make sure I'm not goofing off.

And that could very well happen in companies if this Pandora's box gets opened.

Ordnance
7 December 2014, 17:59
But giving up your right on whether or not you choose to wear a camera to possibly buy you public opinion favor is.

No one is forcing them to do the job, so I don't see how you can play at their giving up a right. That's like saying if you worked at say a bank and they added cameras then you're giving up you rights.

WHSmithIV
7 December 2014, 19:05
No one is forcing them to do the job, so I don't see how you can play at their giving up a right. That's like saying if you worked at say a bank and they added cameras then you're giving up you rights.

The difference is making them wear personal cameras. Not general use security cameras being placed in a given business. Criminals get required to wear gsm location bracelets. Police officers aren't criminals. If they get required to wear personal use cameras, it does become an invasion of privacy when not on duty. You can damn well expect companies to start requiring their employees also to wear them to make sure they are doing their job then. A company could then say "you went to the toilet too many times today - you're fired"..

GOST
7 December 2014, 19:17
No one is forcing them to do the job, so I don't see how you can play at their giving up a right. That's like saying if you worked at say a bank and they added cameras then you're giving up you rights.

If your for it being made mandatory for them to wear cameras or find a different occupation that's your opinion.

Ordnance
7 December 2014, 21:28
The difference is making them wear personal cameras. Not general use security cameras being placed in a given business. Criminals get required to wear gsm location bracelets. Police officers aren't criminals. If they get required to wear personal use cameras, it does become an invasion of privacy when not on duty. You can damn well expect companies to start requiring their employees also to wear them to make sure they are doing their job then. A company could then say "you went to the toilet too many times today - you're fired"..

No one ever said anything about wearing it off duty. And companies do watch their employees through the use of cameras to make sure they aren't slacking off which is no different. Hell, they have entire tv shows based upon doing just that. Now we're just stretching things to justify the reasoning. It's fine to have the opinion that you don't like the cameras and think it's a bad idea, but trying to stretch into being an infringement on your civil right? Come on...

UWone77
7 December 2014, 21:31
When public opinion starts to trump the law I will take off the badge and duty belt and walk away. There would be no reason to continue on the job.

At the rate things are going I may pop smoke as soon as my number comes up. I was planning on pulling the plug at 33 years.

This.

Police work has changed a lot since I first started. Some for the better, but mostly for the worse. When public opinion starts to determine discipline, and/or charges to be filed, then I will hang up the badge.

Or more garbage like this:

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/12/212597-3-protesters-got-outrageous-anti-cop-move-wrong/

7 years left and counting....

SwissyJim
7 December 2014, 22:12
Shit like this makes me all that much happier I run into burning buildings instead... a lot safer than dealing with the public. And even that has changed. But I only have 1½ years left...

ddearmon2010
8 December 2014, 03:17
To me making a law enforcement officer wear a camera to make sure he's doing his job is a bad idea. I would hate for them to make me wear a camera at work to make sure I'm not goofing off.

so your saying you don't work lol?

GOST
8 December 2014, 03:32
so your saying you don't work lol?

Shhhhhh.... Don't tell my wife.

voodoo_man
8 December 2014, 06:15
these are the people that support this type of thing

http://youtu.be/WNFTfR6WycA

Guinnesseb
8 December 2014, 09:47
these are the people that support this type of thing

http://youtu.be/WNFTfR6WycA
Its people like this that make me think having body cams on all officers is a good idea for the most part... These people have a warped sense of reality and no matter what the facts of a situation may be they will always blame the police... Now I say this not being in LE, but i would be inclined to want these cams to protect me from false allegations by scumbags like these.. Some good points have been made here though regarding privacy issues. I never thought about possibly losing a lead on a case because an individual did not want to be filmed for fear of local retaliation. Its a sticky slope and I hope whatever happens is done the right reason.... ie... protecting the honorable officers rather than looking for the very small percentage of scumbag ones.

UWone77
8 December 2014, 10:04
I think body cameras are only part solution. It would clarify what was said with audio, but during a struggle, or fight, I've seen enough videos where all you see is the camera being whipped around quickly. Nothing appears clear. You would have to have another officer that's far enough away from the scene to capture the entire picture of what's going on.

Ordnance
8 December 2014, 10:56
There are pros and caveats to both sides on this. I think LE mistakes some of us like me wanting cameras as an invasion of their privacy and/or for oversight, but many of is actually just want to see the protection of Officers from wrongful allegations and tougher prosecution on those who would try to make such false claims. Unfortunately, IMO when something like this becomes overly complicated and requires that much oversight I have to heed on the side of caution where I think implementation would just get botched and a larger headache than it's worth would ensue.

Soisauss
8 December 2014, 16:39
This.

Police work has changed a lot since I first started. Some for the better, but mostly for the worse. When public opinion starts to determine discipline, and/or charges to be filed, then I will hang up the badge.

Or more garbage like this:

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/12/212597-3-protesters-got-outrageous-anti-cop-move-wrong/

7 years left and counting....

Pardon my language but that is FUCKED UP. Ignorant pieces of shit. Uninformed sheep's are the worst.

ddearmon2010
9 December 2014, 03:16
I would be for them if there was a way that you could turn them on only when on a call. there would be those individuals that would ruin it for the rest by accidentally leaving it on and cause problems for the rest of them.

GOST
9 December 2014, 04:06
I could see an Officer being called on as a witness in a trial and his video being used as evidence. Then the Defense Attorney saying that they had reviewed the Officer's video for the last month. And in that month he had arrested 19 Ethnics and 2 Caucasians, and that he had used more force with the Ethnics. In this case the Defense argues the Officer is a bigot and had been profiling and the jury sides with the Defense.

voodoo_man
9 December 2014, 04:07
I could see an Officer being called on as a witness in a trial and his video being used as evidence. Then the Defense Attorney saying that they had reviewed the Officer's video for the last month. And in that month he had arrested 19 Ethnics and 2 Caucasians, and that he had used more force with the Ethnics. In this case the Defense argues the Officer is a bigot and had been profiling and the jury sides with the Defense.

Privacy laws would not allow that occur.

Most places allow either the officer or the defendant have right to view that video, everything else is out of reach.

GOST
9 December 2014, 04:46
New laws may go into effect either with making cameras mandatory or after it goes into effect. I have doubt that they would petition for a law named after Brown to benefit the LEO.

nCarnage
9 December 2014, 16:37
I think they help in some instances but cause major headaches people don't think about. Massive storage problems. That's a whole lot of data every day. Stuff breaks. Now every time there is a mechanical breakdown automatically the cops are hiding something. I can't keep a radio working I can't imagine how bad a camera is. I have been through a whole ton of digital cameras that haven't been up to task in my off duty goofing around. They haven't been through a fight.

Then you add freedom of information requests. Time and money most agencies don't have for massive amounts of information.

Unfortunately juries believe CSI is real and if it wasn't on video it didn't happen.

It is going to have a massive chilling effect on street informants. I have a whole boatload of people I talk to in the community that talk to me about what goes on in the neighborhood. They do it because they trust me and they know I will address the crimes without dragging them into it. No way in hell are they going to do that while being video taped.

Privacy issues, Sorry you aren't coming into my home while video taping anything. Unless i'ts a major crime scene that ain't happening. Remember this is public record and anyone can get a hold of that.

For me. I start and end my day in my drive way. Lets go back to public record.

When does it get turned on and off? I can tell you you don't want to witness my whole day or a private conversation I have on a break. And I do get breaks. Cops work a 24-7 schedule. Life, bills and kids don't stop because of the job. I rarely see my family so the kids and wife get a goodnight call when I'm working if I can, because they rarely see me.

How many hours of report writing are we willing to archive. What if I have to drop a duece.

Now we have an issue of turning it on for a traffic stop. I can tell you if I stop someone and they jump out of a car turning on a camera is a last priority. Meeting the threat is my top priority.

People have this bizarre idea that LEO's sign a suicide pact when they sign up. Nope. I will damn sure put myself in harms way to protect the innocent. Even if they are just innocent for the moment. But I'm not sacrificing my life for anyone. They are going to have to take it from me I'm not giving it up and it won't be pretty to watch.

Mike Browns parents never wanted justice. They wanted revenge. A national bill based on the act of a thug who wanted to attack a cop is bunk. Science proved it beyond a doubt. But lets not let facts get in the way.

I am 100% against anything implemented on a national level for police. If you tried to drop LAPD into my AO there would be an all out revolt. If you Put my agency in LA the criminals would have a hay day. Different worlds.

With that said I wouldn't mind having a camera that was on whenever I'm out of the squad on any call or on a Traffic or citizen contact. But i also want the ability to turn it off so a Grandmother can tall me about the guy selling heroine to 14 year olds down the street or the pedophile next door without her having to worry about getting labeled a snitch and being targeted.


The whole scope of this movement is to demonize law enforcement. I saw a poster stating that 5% of cops were bad. My god if it were that high we would have a huge problem. Its realistically about a 10th of a percent. If you're not in the business it may be easy to believe int he thin blue line of silence. I will tell you without a doubt we don't want turds working with us. If you lie cheat steal or act like an ass you just make my job harder. If you do that I will do my best to drum you out and to charge you criminally if I can. I don't know anyone who feels differently about it.

But this is also one of the few jobs that if one guy in Rhode Island does something stupid for some odd reason a cop in Kansas has to answer for it. The media has been doing their dead best to beat this horse and fan the flames. I am very lucky to live in a community that by a large margin supports us and I love to live and work here. There are still plenty of turds and agitators but they get shut down pretty fast by the decent people. Now if one of us does something bad they will also pig pile on it like nobodies business as they should.

I would hate to work in an area that had no support. A bad attitude would be easy to get. Unfortunately it seems the media wants that disconnect.


that x100