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Steeles
13 January 2015, 14:01
So just shy of two years after my first AR purchase, I'm ready to build my first. My time with my current rifle and getting to shoot other peoples really gave me a sense of what works for me. All in all my original rifle hasn't changed much since i bought it. But i had it in my head i wanted to build one 100% the way *I* wanted.

then I started changing my mind lol. I was originally going to build another 16" rifle with the upper lower and handguard cerakote'd... but decided if i was going to spend the money on cerakote why not do an SBR? so tax stamp it was.

PSA lower and LPK; chosen because they were on sale and I couldn't find huge justification for anything fancier. I thought about getting something Like a BCM or Rainier forged lower since I am gonna have this one for life basically. But the Fiance ordered the PSA for me as a Christmas present, otherwise i'd probably still be debating with myself. well that got the ball rolling.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8659/16072404618_c966a4bf71_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/quggWs)SBR-1 (https://flic.kr/p/quggWs) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

For the upper I went with an aero precision stripped no FA unit. I'm not a hunter or a door kicker so I have no need to silently chamber a round, and in two years with my current rifle have never needed it. so why not leave it off. There are other ways to seat it if for some reason i do need to. And I think it looks nicer without it. I did however want a dust cover so I have a generic brownells door for it.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7473/16259108212_f78f4ff217_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qLLbpW)SBR-2 (https://flic.kr/p/qLLbpW) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

I'm not a huge fan of quad rails (size/grip wise) so i decided on a nice modular rail. The KMR was receiving all of the attention at the time so I loked at it. i wasn't sold until i held one at a LGS. Decided on a 10.5
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7465/16258115101_07718b5e22_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qLF6ck)SBR-9 (https://flic.kr/p/qLF6ck) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

went with a BCM gas block to be sure of fit under the slim rail. I have no suppressor plans in the near future so I opted not to run an adjustable gas block.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7540/16072403738_23c95d48bc_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/quggFh)SBR-8 (https://flic.kr/p/quggFh) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

reading the Ultimate battle rifle thread in the AR discussion section here had me sold on a UBR long ago. got to shoot a carbine equipped with one and liked it. A friend sold me one at a really great price so I'll be running it. though honestly i'm wondering how it will balance with the pretty light weight upper. Time will tell if I like the setup. if I don't I'll swap the Vltor A5 from my 16" to this one.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7535/16074084107_5073f896dd_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qupTca)SBR-3 (https://flic.kr/p/qupTca) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

The AIM V2 nitrided BCG had good reviews value for dollar and all the milspec buzzwords I'm used to seeing.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7547/15640034083_940941d79a_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pQ4gf4)SBR-6 (https://flic.kr/p/pQ4gf4) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

I've heard comparison's between the Lantac Dragon and VG6's epsilon. I've shot a Dragon on a friends pistol and like it.. for a brake. wasn't horrible too shoot. so I decided to give the epsilon a try. glossy black nitride and all
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7481/16073794869_d745c5730e_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/quopdi)SBR-12 (https://flic.kr/p/quopdi) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

The barrel is from Sionics Weapons. Melonite 11.5 1/7 wist carbine gas, xrayed and MPI. went with 11.5 for a couple reasons, the archived thread on ARfcom where Mr Paul (i wasn't gonna misspell his last name lol) explained why they built 11.5s, and i wanted the 10.5 handguard from BCM. I also liked that Sionics pre dimpled the barrel for the gas block, and seeing the positive rep Iraqgunz has on several forums knowing he worked R&D helped me choose them for my barrel. (i am really not happy with this pic but it'll do for now)
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7519/16258114841_2b04802d7b_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qLF67R)SBR-10 (https://flic.kr/p/qLF67R) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

As I said I'll be running the PSA LPK, with a few changes. Seekins bolt realease/catch, just cause I thought it looked cool, though I'm mad I ddin't get a matching mag release button. will probably swap that soon just for looks. I have gotten used to an Ambi safety, but the recent V7 titanium ambi has me holding off on a BADASS... I'll also be running a Gieselle SSA and I have a Rainier Raptor charging handle to go with it. will be starting with a standard carbine buffer and spring. Also picked up a Magpul BEV block to do the assembly. all my parts are here (hence the post) so just need to get it all assembled and see if she will go bang! I'll up date with some assembly photos as it goes.

toolboxluis00200
13 January 2015, 16:37
man that is going to look nice

UWone77
13 January 2015, 16:54
Steeles, pretty good pics! I didn't know you were into photography.

Steeles
13 January 2015, 18:32
UWone, yeah I mostly shoot people, and mainly for fun. But got a new camera at Christmas and needed to test it out. (Nikon d7100. used the 18-140 kit lens and balanced the window light with an AB800 strobe)

WHSmithIV
13 January 2015, 19:40
One of these days I am definitely going to have to pony up for a NFA trust and tax stamps. Nice pics Steeles.

SeattleDude
13 January 2015, 22:24
Are you building 223 or 300BLK? =)

Nice pics!

DutyUse
13 January 2015, 23:54
So just shy of two years after my first AR purchase, I'm ready to build my first. My time with my current rifle and getting to shoot other peoples really gave me a sense of what works for me. All in all my original rifle hasn't changed much since i bought it. But i had it in my head i wanted to build one 100% the way *I* wanted.

then I started changing my mind lol. I was originally going to build another 16" rifle with the upper lower and handguard cerakote'd... but decided if i was going to spend the money on cerakote why not do an SBR? so tax stamp it was.

PSA lower and LPK; chosen because they were on sale and I couldn't find huge justification for anything fancier. I thought about getting something Like a BCM or Rainier forged lower since I am gonna have this one for life basically. But the Fiance ordered the PSA for me as a Christmas present, otherwise i'd probably still be debating with myself. well that got the ball rolling.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8659/16072404618_c966a4bf71_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/quggWs)SBR-1 (https://flic.kr/p/quggWs) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

For the upper I went with an aero precision stripped no FA unit. I'm not a hunter or a door kicker so I have no need to silently chamber a round, and in two years with my current rifle have never needed it. so why not leave it off. There are other ways to seat it if for some reason i do need to. And I think it looks nicer without it. I did however want a dust cover so I have a generic brownells door for it.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7473/16259108212_f78f4ff217_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qLLbpW)SBR-2 (https://flic.kr/p/qLLbpW) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

I'm not a huge fan of quad rails (size/grip wise) so i decided on a nice modular rail. The KMR was receiving all of the attention at the time so I loked at it. i wasn't sold until i held one at a LGS. Decided on a 10.5
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7465/16258115101_07718b5e22_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qLF6ck)SBR-9 (https://flic.kr/p/qLF6ck) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

went with a BCM gas block to be sure of fit under the slim rail. I have no suppressor plans in the near future so I opted not to run an adjustable gas block.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7540/16072403738_23c95d48bc_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/quggFh)SBR-8 (https://flic.kr/p/quggFh) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

reading the Ultimate battle rifle thread in the AR discussion section here had me sold on a UBR long ago. got to shoot a carbine equipped with one and liked it. A friend sold me one at a really great price so I'll be running it. though honestly i'm wondering how it will balance with the pretty light weight upper. Time will tell if I like the setup. if I don't I'll swap the Vltor A5 from my 16" to this one.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7535/16074084107_5073f896dd_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qupTca)SBR-3 (https://flic.kr/p/qupTca) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

The AIM V2 nitrided BCG had good reviews value for dollar and all the milspec buzzwords I'm used to seeing.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7547/15640034083_940941d79a_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pQ4gf4)SBR-6 (https://flic.kr/p/pQ4gf4) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

I've heard comparison's between the Lantac Dragon and VG6's epsilon. I've shot a Dragon on a friends pistol and like it.. for a brake. wasn't horrible too shoot. so I decided to give the epsilon a try. glossy black nitride and all
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7481/16073794869_d745c5730e_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/quopdi)SBR-12 (https://flic.kr/p/quopdi) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

The barrel is from Sionics Weapons. Melonite 11.5 1/7 wist carbine gas, xrayed and MPI. went with 11.5 for a couple reasons, the archived thread on ARfcom where Mr Paul (i wasn't gonna misspell his last name lol) explained why they built 11.5s, and i wanted the 10.5 handguard from BCM. I also liked that Sionics pre dimpled the barrel for the gas block, and seeing the positive rep Iraqgunz has on several forums knowing he worked R&D helped me choose them for my barrel. (i am really not happy with this pic but it'll do for now)
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7519/16258114841_2b04802d7b_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qLF67R)SBR-10 (https://flic.kr/p/qLF67R) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

As I said I'll be running the PSA LPK, with a few changes. Seekins bolt realease/catch, just cause I thought it looked cool, though I'm mad I ddin't get a matching mag release button. will probably swap that soon just for looks. I have gotten used to an Ambi safety, but the recent V7 titanium ambi has me holding off on a BADASS... I'll also be running a Gieselle SSA and I have a Rainier Raptor charging handle to go with it. will be starting with a standard carbine buffer and spring. Also picked up a Magpul BEV block to do the assembly. all my parts are here (hence the post) so just need to get it all assembled and see if she will go bang! I'll up date with some assembly photos as it goes.

Wow this is scarily similar to my 11.5 :D

Only difference is mines a pistol vs SBR.

Awesome photos, well planned and executed build!

din
14 January 2015, 00:36
UWone, yeah I mostly shoot people, and mainly for fun.

Dude.

Steeles
14 January 2015, 08:48
Dude.

with the camera. with the camera!

Steeles
14 January 2015, 08:50
.223 I want a 300blk. but the cost to me isn't worth it yet. maybe once the wedding is over and we actually get into a house I can start reloading and i'll play with it then.

Thanks!

Steeles
16 January 2015, 16:14
I didn't take nearly as many pics of the build process as I meant too. The upper build pics are on the Iphone I'll get them up later. The MOE trigger guard that came with my LPK would not work, the front screw stripped the hex head out trying to get it to screw into the guard. So I robbed the Fiance's LPK for hers and it did the same thing. So no trigger guard for now. Everything else went smoothly enough (considering its my first build) the KMR is TIGHT. had some issue with the second screw, as in I'm not convinced it will EVER come out! I knew the UBR was heavy but when its tucked in and i'm in the sights (well where the sights will be) it's not so bad. bathroom scale subracting me unloaded and no optics i weighed it at 6.4 pounds. overall length stock collapsed was 29". for comparison I put the upper on my 16" lower. that lower wears a Vltor A5 7 position and a B5 systems bravo. weighed a full pound less.

UWone77
16 January 2015, 16:52
I am a fan of a UBR on a SBR, especially if you plan to run it suppressed. It balances out the gun well, but it is heavier overall.

WHSmithIV
16 January 2015, 21:21
I didn't take nearly as many pics of the build process as I meant too. The upper build pics are on the Iphone I'll get them up later. The MOE trigger guard that came with my LPK would not work, the front screw stripped the hex head out trying to get it to screw into the guard. So I robbed the Fiance's LPK for hers and it did the same thing. So no trigger guard for now. Everything else went smoothly enough (considering its my first build) the KMR is TIGHT. had some issue with the second screw, as in I'm not convinced it will EVER come out! I knew the UBR was heavy but when its tucked in and i'm in the sights (well where the sights will be) it's not so bad. bathroom scale subracting me unloaded and no optics i weighed it at 6.4 pounds. overall length stock collapsed was 29". for comparison I put the upper on my 16" lower. that lower wears a Vltor A5 7 position and a B5 systems bravo. weighed a full pound less.

Send Magpul a message. They'll get you out replacements that should work. I had a little problem with that screw myself after Magpul sent me one because i didn't have it. It seems that the trigger guard isn't actually threaded for the screw and the screw is supposed to do the threading. I ended up using a punch to give it a couple very gentle taps to get it to seat properly. I suppose if I ever need to change the trigger guard, I'll find a way to get it out if it won't unscrew out.

Deadwing
16 January 2015, 22:45
Sounds like an awesome build! I use a cap head screw with the same thread pitch to tap those polymer trigger guards before threading in the supplied set screw. A bit easier to get started, and the larger hex head hasn't stripped out yet.

Steeles
17 January 2015, 07:38
Sadly when i started this I was originally going to order the Seekins billet trigger guard. but decided to save the money since the LPK came with this one. So i may return to my original plan. I dunno yet. it's still extra money vs MAKING this one work. I do like the Rainier one too with the screws in the rear as well. My big fear was to break one of those "ears" of putting the roll pin in and destroying the lower i've got a 200 tax stamp on...

Deadwing
17 January 2015, 07:49
Sadly when i started this I was originally going to order the Seekins billet trigger guard. but decided to save the money since the LPK came with this one. So i may return to my original plan. I dunno yet. it's still extra money vs MAKING this one work. I do like the Rainier one too with the screws in the rear as well. My big fear was to break one of those "ears" of putting the roll pin in and destroying the lower i've got a 200 tax stamp on...

Both the Seekins and Rainier look like really nice trigger guards, although i haven't used either one. Screw retention all around is a definite plus. I have used either the Magpul Enhanced trigger guard (the aluminum one) or milspec trigger guard on the majority of my builds, with the Magpul polymer part only used a few times. If properly supported, breaking off the ears shouldn't be a problem. But i understand your concern for sure! I haven't used it, but this tool might help if you get a new trigger guard that need a roll pin installed through the ears: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/318884/little-crow-gunworks-ar-15-trigger-guard-roll-pin-pusher?cm_vc=ProductFinding

BoilerUp
17 January 2015, 08:01
Sadly when i started this I was originally going to order the Seekins billet trigger guard. but decided to save the money since the LPK came with this one. So i may return to my original plan. I dunno yet. it's still extra money vs MAKING this one work. I do like the Rainier one too with the screws in the rear as well. My big fear was to break one of those "ears" of putting the roll pin in and destroying the lower i've got a 200 tax stamp on...

This story makes a good case for why it's a good idea to complete a build as a pistol first, make sure everything is the way you want it, and only then file the Form 1 for SBR.

Steeles
17 January 2015, 16:28
More pics as promised. some are with the Iphone. and forgive my friends messy shop lol. Mechanics don't tend to keep neat workspaces
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7561/16118219859_6fb1576f8a.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qyj6dp)SBR-21 (https://flic.kr/p/qyj6dp) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7517/16116823868_c18ac45146.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qybWeA)SBR-22 (https://flic.kr/p/qybWeA) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7501/16303500582_300b028cc0.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qQFGHC)SBR-23 (https://flic.kr/p/qQFGHC) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

And back home to get dressed
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7569/16302582121_54a1742de7.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qQAZG6)SBR-13 (https://flic.kr/p/qQAZG6) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7503/16116996890_67a5767a9b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qycPEJ)SBR-14 (https://flic.kr/p/qycPEJ) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8645/16302581581_275b935015.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qQAZwM)SBR-15 (https://flic.kr/p/qQAZwM) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7511/16302581291_096d2b0d4b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qQAZrM)SBR-17 (https://flic.kr/p/qQAZrM) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7461/16118521567_b6637b31db.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qykCUg)SBR-18 (https://flic.kr/p/qykCUg) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7579/16278437446_4cdf221dbe.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qNtfjA)SBR-19 (https://flic.kr/p/qNtfjA) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

and a quick pic before heading to the range with the Primary arms 1-4 on it. yes my fiance picked the comforter...
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7468/16278435766_a48155f72f.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qNtePC)SBR-24 (https://flic.kr/p/qNtePC) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr

Steeles
17 January 2015, 16:41
And a little range report. didn't go kaboom! lol as far as first builds go I call that a success. locked back on empty, can't tell which way brass was ejecting (indoor range brass bounces off the wall) gave a quick and dirty zero, but the scope rings weren't locktited and so they did loosen fairly quickly. walked the zero in (used a 50/200m zero at 25 target) brought it in and sent a clean one out for a 5 shot group. using my elbow and the grip as support, no rest.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7569/16302578771_84a79ee505.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qQAYGk)SBR-25 (https://flic.kr/p/qQAYGk) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7510/15681954014_cc0cdbb6be.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pTL7zu)SBR-26 (https://flic.kr/p/pTL7zu) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
Thats when I noticed the rings were loosened on the rail. tightened them back up and sent the last clean target out
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7481/16303499132_19270e8395.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qQFGhC)SBR-28 (https://flic.kr/p/qQFGhC) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
I was happy with the group considering the base I was shooting from.
Figured I was gonna either locktite the rings or order a one piece mount so that was close enough for now since I'd have to re zero it when i did either.

the Epsilon is loud indoors. even through double ear pro. but man it doesn't move. smooth shooting though not as "soft" as my other. controlled pairs stayed on target. I like it, can't wait to get it outside and really run it.

*edit ammo was wolf gold 55 gr.

DutyUse
17 January 2015, 16:46
And a little range report. didn't go kaboom! lol as far as first builds go I call that a success. locked back on empty, can't tell which way brass was ejecting (indoor range brass bounces off the wall) gave a quick and dirty zero, but the scope rings weren't locktited and so they did loosen fairly quickly. walked the zero in (used a 50/200m zero at 25 target) brought it in and sent a clean one out for a 5 shot group. using my elbow and the grip as support, no rest.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7569/16302578771_84a79ee505.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qQAYGk)SBR-25 (https://flic.kr/p/qQAYGk) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7510/15681954014_cc0cdbb6be.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/pTL7zu)SBR-26 (https://flic.kr/p/pTL7zu) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
Thats when I noticed the rings were loosened on the rail. tightened them back up and sent the last clean target out
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7481/16303499132_19270e8395.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qQFGhC)SBR-28 (https://flic.kr/p/qQFGhC) by Steeles240 (https://www.flickr.com/people/14361969@N08/), on Flickr
I was happy with the group considering the base I was shooting from.
Figured I was gonna either locktite the rings or order a one piece mount so that was close enough for now since I'd have to re zero it when i did either.

the Epsilon is loud indoors. even through double ear pro. but man it doesn't move. smooth shooting though not as "soft" as my other. controlled pairs stayed on target. I like it, can't wait to get it outside and really run it.

*edit ammo was wolf gold 55 gr.

Nicely done brother! Looks amazing and seems to shoot well too. Well done sir. I have a couple Trigger guards in black laying around if u want one i'll add it to the list of stuff i still need to send out lol…

Magpul polymer black
Rainer black
and I think maybe a B5? maybe a seekins would have to check my parts bin .

If you want one shoot me a PM with address.

PS: Pyzik if you see this I promise I'll send that noveske covers out, meant to this week but my daughter kept pulling an exorcist and projectile puking… :yuck:

Steeles
17 January 2015, 17:18
Dutyuse; that'd be awesome! and hope your little one feels better man!

toolboxluis00200
17 January 2015, 19:40
well done sir well done

mustangfreek
18 January 2015, 02:51
Nice SBR build Steeles..I like it..

Deadwing
18 January 2015, 03:09
Very nicely done! I really dig the look. I've been meaning to get a build going using a UBR. Between yours and UW's recent pics, it may happen sooner than later. :P How do you like the Primary Arms 1-4?

Steeles
18 January 2015, 08:05
I like the 1-4. it has it's drawbacks but I think most of those lie in the price point. But I bought it to see how I liked a 1-4 vs the red dot I'd been shooting for the past year. needless to say the 1-4 moved instead of putting the red dot in the drawer on this build. draw backs; it's a simple reticule fairly easy to pick up because of the cross hairs to know where your at. but the dot is pretty small and outdoors the illumination is all but useless. but again simple reticule is easy to pick up. until a shadow passes the target area. then it takes an extra (really half second if that) to not focus on the dot and use the cross hairs. I think thats the big speed difference in my limited experience opinion between the red dot.

well it was.... as I was leaving the range I wandered over to the scopes in the shop and they had a Vcog in the case. i decided to torture myself and ask to look through it. big and bright and the reticule was easily picked up without the illumination on both in shadow and the bright sunlight from the window. both on 1x and 6x. this was the segmented circle reticule. it instantly made me want to step up to better glass. I can't go all out and get a vcog but i at least want to get something like the vortex pst 1-4. (the Primary arms will go on the fiance's gun when we build it later this year hopefully)

I do like the PA. once you know to be using the crosshairs more to aim your shots you pick that split second back up. I like the capped turrets, it's a 1-4 I'm not gonna be dialing in dope on the fly with it. and I don't have to worry about a turret getting accidentally spun. set and forget. farthest i've ever shot is 200yds so far and at that range i wouldn't consider a 4x scope precision by any means. minute of 8-10 plate on a calm night. for up close speed I'd really like to try the acss from their 1-6 vs their illuminated dot. for the price i'm more than happy with it. it answered my question of which do I prefer. Now i'm faced with the same question I have with my cameras.... how much glass can I afford. comparing the little PA to the Vcog is like comparing the cheap kit lens from a canon rebel to an L series lens. yeah the L series is 24x more expensive but look through it! sploosh! thats kinda what i felt looking through that vcog after shooting the PA. like borrowing my friends Nikkor 300mm f2.8 lens (that runs a good 5500 bucks) to my 55-200 f5.6 lens. No matter how good your pics are with that 55-200, that 300 will leave you wanting...

TL/DR; i like it, good for the price. no comparison to vcog!

Deadwing
18 January 2015, 18:32
I like the 1-4. it has it's drawbacks but I think most of those lie in the price point. But I bought it to see how I liked a 1-4 vs the red dot I'd been shooting for the past year. needless to say the 1-4 moved instead of putting the red dot in the drawer on this build. draw backs; it's a simple reticule fairly easy to pick up because of the cross hairs to know where your at. but the dot is pretty small and outdoors the illumination is all but useless. but again simple reticule is easy to pick up. until a shadow passes the target area. then it takes an extra (really half second if that) to not focus on the dot and use the cross hairs. I think thats the big speed difference in my limited experience opinion between the red dot.

well it was.... as I was leaving the range I wandered over to the scopes in the shop and they had a Vcog in the case. i decided to torture myself and ask to look through it. big and bright and the reticule was easily picked up without the illumination on both in shadow and the bright sunlight from the window. both on 1x and 6x. this was the segmented circle reticule. it instantly made me want to step up to better glass. I can't go all out and get a vcog but i at least want to get something like the vortex pst 1-4. (the Primary arms will go on the fiance's gun when we build it later this year hopefully)

I do like the PA. once you know to be using the crosshairs more to aim your shots you pick that split second back up. I like the capped turrets, it's a 1-4 I'm not gonna be dialing in dope on the fly with it. and I don't have to worry about a turret getting accidentally spun. set and forget. farthest i've ever shot is 200yds so far and at that range i wouldn't consider a 4x scope precision by any means. minute of 8-10 plate on a calm night. for up close speed I'd really like to try the acss from their 1-6 vs their illuminated dot. for the price i'm more than happy with it. it answered my question of which do I prefer. Now i'm faced with the same question I have with my cameras.... how much glass can I afford. comparing the little PA to the Vcog is like comparing the cheap kit lens from a canon rebel to an L series lens. yeah the L series is 24x more expensive but look through it! sploosh! thats kinda what i felt looking through that vcog after shooting the PA. like borrowing my friends Nikkor 300mm f2.8 lens (that runs a good 5500 bucks) to my 55-200 f5.6 lens. No matter how good your pics are with that 55-200, that 300 will leave you wanting...

TL/DR; i like it, good for the price. no comparison to vcog!

Thanks for the info. Sounds like it'd do just fine for a plinker build. I too would love to step up to some really good glss, both for my guns and cameras. Problem is, beyond a certain point one is paying a whole lot of cash for incremental improvements. Not saying it isn't worth it, just not in my current budget. :P

Steeles
18 January 2015, 22:46
I'm in the same boat. how much do i REALLY need for what I do? But as the fiance put it they are investment items. something I hope to get years of use out of. But my budget is extra limited, gotta put what little money I have away for wedding this year.

DutyUse
19 January 2015, 02:59
Dutyuse; that'd be awesome! and hope your little one feels better man!

Thanks bro, my wife and I appreciate it.

Deadwing
19 January 2015, 03:15
I'm in the same boat. how much do i REALLY need for what I do? But as the fiance put it they are investment items. something I hope to get years of use out of. But my budget is extra limited, gotta put what little money I have away for wedding this year.

For what it's worth, i deliberated (agonized is more like it lol) for a long time on whether to get the Vortex Viper PST 1-4, or spend twice as much on a Trijicon Accupoint 1-4. In the end, i went for the Viper and am quite pleased with it. It's an extremely well built scope for the money and the glass is actually quite good. I just couldn't justify spending more than twice as much on the Trijicon. Do i still lust after the Trijicon? Yes. Do i regret buying the Viper instead of saving a lot more and getting the Accupoint instead? Not for a second. Incredible quality and value for the money. The lifetime warranty on the Vortex is just icing on the cake.

Steeles
21 January 2015, 06:41
For what it's worth, i deliberated (agonized is more like it lol) for a long time on whether to get the Vortex Viper PST 1-4, or spend twice as much on a Trijicon Accupoint 1-4. In the end, i went for the Viper and am quite pleased with it. It's an extremely well built scope for the money and the glass is actually quite good. I just couldn't justify spending more than twice as much on the Trijicon. Do i still lust after the Trijicon? Yes. Do i regret buying the Viper instead of saving a lot more and getting the Accupoint instead? Not for a second. Incredible quality and value for the money. The lifetime warranty on the Vortex is just icing on the cake.
Yeah the viper is the one I'm realistically looking at. Though the strike fire they have coming out at the same price point has me curious..

Deadwing
22 January 2015, 00:58
Yeah the viper is the one I'm realistically looking at. Though the strike fire they have coming out at the same price point has me curious..

I'll have to research that one, don't know anything about it.

Steeles
22 January 2015, 06:01
I'll have to research that one, don't know anything about it.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7026-New-Vortex-scope-1-6x24-Strike-Eagle ;) from their website the glass isn't going to have the same coatings as the PST line and argon purged instead of nitrogen. looks to compare heavily with features in the crossfire though. I do wonder about the illumination though.

I also realize I said strike fire and not strike eagle... whoops

Deadwing
23 January 2015, 00:18
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7026-New-Vortex-scope-1-6x24-Strike-Eagle ;) from their website the glass isn't going to have the same coatings as the PST line and argon purged instead of nitrogen. looks to compare heavily with features in the crossfire though. I do wonder about the illumination though.

I also realize I said strike fire and not strike eagle... whoops

OK, i did see this. It's awful similar to the Primary Arms 1-6 (found here https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_1_6X_Scope_with_Patented_ACSS_Reticle _p/paps1-6x.htm). I'm curious to see how the glass on the Vortex will compare to the PA. The PA is a pretty sweet deal for the money.

Steeles
23 January 2015, 06:58
yeah I've been comparing specs. PA has preorder price of 329 on the stike eagle and it's boasting a field of view greater than even the 1-6 razor, but less eye relief. (i'm still trying to figure out how all that ties in together.. lol) since I've looked through the vcog i put those specs up and compared. I figured if the vcog was my visual reference view wise (not optical clarity obviously) i'd be OK. field of view wise the viper 1-4 and the PA 1-6 have close to the same specs (field of view and eye relief wise) as the vcog. going off those specs the strike eagle and the razor are even more. (maybe not in the strike eagle's case due to the shorter eye relief?) though thats just my very non scientific i think I somewhat understand some of this observation. ideally obviously i'd love to be able to look through them all. but finding somewhere around here that has even two of them in stock isn't happening. (course I did spot a gen 2 razor for a stupid low price on armslist last night.... but the fiance is already yelling at me over the thought of that since we are saving for the wedding...)

Deadwing
24 January 2015, 02:59
Out of your available options, i really don't think you can go wrong. They all offer something slightly different, and are all compromises in a way (to me at least). The Viper is my overall favorite. You should throw your name in the hat on the WEVO T&E thred, and maybe get to try some optics before you buy.

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?6691-WEVO-Members-Testing-amp-Evaluation-Program/page15

Steeles
24 January 2015, 06:43
I thought I'd said I was down for that.. i'll have to double check

Deadwing
24 January 2015, 19:17
I thought I'd said I was down for that.. i'll have to double check

Maybe you did. I just thought i'd suggest it in case you hadn't.

Steeles
26 January 2015, 08:41
Saying I'm just patiently waiting on something to torture sounds really wrong...

Steeles
31 May 2015, 19:05
didn't want to start a whole new thread for this, but found a decent deal on a Voper PST and QD mount and finally remembered to take a halfway decent pic of the complete riflehttps://c1.staticflickr.com/1/282/18140295380_3ca4ab74ed_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/tCZKPs)pst-1 (https://flic.kr/p/tCZKPs) by Brandon (https://www.flickr.com/photos/steeles240/), on Flickr

mustangfreek
1 June 2015, 00:09
nice rifle!

Jerry R
1 June 2015, 05:07
Nice image - nice Rifle !

Steeles
6 June 2015, 18:31
Thanks guys