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Ride4frnt
18 January 2015, 21:22
Just got the Dillon 650 fully set up today. I started prepping my brass, and I'm going to run the press as a single stage for a while just focusing on one step at a time. Tumbled a few loads of brass yesterday and today and ran a few cases through the resizing die. I have two sets of dies on hand, Lee and RCBS. I'm borrowing these dies for now, I'll get dillon 3 die set eventually.

First question, and I'm sure I'll add more when I get more time to do the next steps...

Does this brass look correct? I know I need to get a case gauge, but generally does the neck of this resized case look like it should after resizing? Resized one is on the right.


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s374/blue94dc4/Firearms/8209A9ED-5FE1-4986-8ADC-E6B2EFFDA70A_zps3vmanija.jpg

If this doesn't look correct, can you tell me what I need to do to adjust the die? Cases came out looking the same from both dies after setting them according to the instructions in the dillon press manual.

mustangfreek
18 January 2015, 22:47
To me, it doesnt look like my cases once i resize them...Not thats its a big difference , but i was using a Lee single stage w/ lee dies and RCBS lube/pad along wit ha Wilson case guage.

Im not familiar with the Blue machines, might be faster but id rather see, and make sure every round gets a primer in the right way, right amount of powder etc....And ive only ever used a single stage and a lee turret for pistol, but only for 3 stations.

cjd3
18 January 2015, 23:29
That does not look correct. Is that from the sizing die, or the seating die? It looks like its putting on a crimp a major one, which would mean you're using the wrong die.

mustangfreek
19 January 2015, 00:51
Ya good point CJ, what die or die sets are u using as i know lee has different sets, 2,3 and rgb sets, i am using the pacesetter dies with a factory crimp, only lightly. But the pic doesnt look like it was crimping, if so it looks way far down,

Ride were you using the decapping/sizing die? using any lube? Or using it without the decapper in?

One reason i stand behind the , yo ushould start on a single stage and figure out each step and setting up dies several times, just to really get the sequence and settings down. Also once you have some sized, another quick check without a guage is to see if it will chamber in the weapon..

But starting from scratch....As you are essentially as in setting up the dies......get a case guage, just makes for a easy setup and for a piece of mind.

Ride4frnt
19 January 2015, 08:37
Both sets of dies I have are 2 die sets, and the brass looks like this after coming out of both of them. It's definitely the sizing/decapping die.

Ride4frnt
19 January 2015, 09:20
Think I figured it out. I don't think I had the dies set far enough. I think they top of the neck was just contacting he resizing ball causing it to bell out like that on the neck, instead of letting the ball go through the neck. Of course I could be completely mistaken as well.

mustangfreek
19 January 2015, 14:10
2 die sets, so the lee set is the green set, why is the 2 sets are usually a decap/sizing die and the seater and sometimes crimp together die- Im personally not fond of these ones.

My advice, since its hard to really help over the internet, is start over, back the die out and put the shell holder in and lower it down til lit touches, then do a half turn, and then play with like 1/8- 1/4 turn adjustments..

Sizing die or try to chamber them when you think your close, although the gage is a cheap tool that is needed IMO or the hornady case measure setup dealio..lol

Jerry R
19 January 2015, 16:15
Here is the way to set up a Dillon (I use a 550B) --- put the tool head in and raise the ram. Screw the size/decap die down until it touches the Dillon shell plate. Then watch the shell plate very closely and slowly screw the die down until most of the slack is removed. That means the shell plate is being pressed downward until it can't go any further with the ram fully raised - handle all the way down. I usually screw the die down until it can't go any lower, then back it off a quarter to half a turn. Leave just a little slack in the shell plate. Lock the die into the tool head firmly with the ram fully raised (the die cannot move). Now, adjust the decapping pin until it protrudes through the bottom of the shell plate. This will do a "full length" resize of the case.

Being retentive, I tumble rifle cases, lube and resize/decap, trim, uniform the primer pocket, swage the primer pocket crimp if military, then tumble again to remove the lube. Then you can re-prime and finish the loading process. Must remove lube before priming. Hope this helps.

Ride4frnt
19 January 2015, 17:57
Here is the way to set up a Dillon (I use a 550B) --- put the tool head in and raise the ram. Screw the size/decap die down until it touches the Dillon shell plate. Then watch the shell plate very closely and slowly screw the die down until most of the slack is removed. That means the shell plate is being pressed downward until it can't go any further with the ram fully raised - handle all the way down. I usually screw the die down until it can't go any lower, then back it off a quarter to half a turn. Leave just a little slack in the shell plate. Lock the die into the tool head firmly with the ram fully raised (the die cannot move). Now, adjust the decapping pin until it protrudes through the bottom of the shell plate. This will do a "full length" resize of the case.

Being retentive, I tumble rifle cases, lube and resize/decap, trim, uniform the primer pocket, swage the primer pocket crimp if military, then tumble again to remove the lube. Then you can re-prime and finish the loading process. Must remove lube before priming. Hope this helps.

Thanks jerry. I did pretty much the same steps this morning and it worked as advertised. I just didn't have the die in far enough to begin. Another problem is, with non dillon dies sometimes they are too short, or JUST long enough (the case with the RCBS die I was using). I also am following the steps you listed for the rest of your brass prep.

Former11B
19 January 2015, 19:02
I do everything brass-prep related that Jerry does aside from a second tumble to remove lube. I have an old towel I throw the brass on and just fold it and roll it a couple times and it's all dry.

Be careful OVER lubing when resizing initially; too much lube on the shoulders can cause pressure related denting on the shoulder. Severe dents can change case volume. Of course, they stretch back out when shot but it's unecessary wear on the brass

mustangfreek
20 January 2015, 01:36
I do everything brass-prep related that Jerry does aside from a second tumble to remove lube. I have an old towel I throw the brass on and just fold it and roll it a couple times and it's all dry.

Be careful OVER lubing when resizing initially; too much lube on the shoulders can cause pressure related denting on the shoulder. Severe dents can change case volume. Of course, they stretch back out when shot but it's unecessary wear on the brass



Just adding on where i can, but seconding what jerry said, very well put btw....i also tumble again after i lube/resize/trim/swag (if needed)

Also former 11b is right, dont use too much lube.


When i i started out , i was using too much and noticed my cases getting squished, now i use a single stage and rcbs pad, so i lube throw on a bunch of brass, and about every third piece ill use a lubed piece of brass, not every one, i have found it works perfect for me..Your mileage will vary...Reloading is fun and many ways to get to the same end result, but there are things to watch out for.

Ride4frnt
20 January 2015, 09:19
Alright, next question. Which does are you guys using? Specifically .223, .40 and 9mm. I guess it makes sense just to buy dillon dies with the lifetime warranty, but I'd like to hear your thoughts on dies.

Had my first catastrophic failure last night with a RCBS .223 die...

Dstrbdmedic167
20 January 2015, 11:40
If you have big blue get big blue. As this guy named Kyle once told me buy once, cry once...

Seriously though, things will work another and better if you use the die sets made for your press

Ride4frnt
20 January 2015, 11:43
I know this james. The inner Jew in me is alive and well though. Need to pony up. Regardless I have a set of RCBS on the way to replace the one I damaged last night

Dstrbdmedic167
20 January 2015, 11:45
I know this james. The inner Jew in me is alive and well though. Need to pony up. Regardless I have a set of RCBS on the way to replace the one I damaged last night

I know I give you a hard time but I think you'll save yourself some headache in the long run.

mustangfreek
20 January 2015, 14:01
for the dillon, which i havent played with , but if i did. Would use their dies, as their setup for their stuff

Ride4frnt
20 January 2015, 15:51
Okay guys, I'm gonna get dillon dies. The good thing here is I share this press with my dad and my brother, but I'll be primary user since my dad works 80 hours (or what seems like) a week, and my bro is a new father. Since it's the 3 of us we can split costs. Really though, 60 for a three die set and lifetime no bs replacement isn't bad.

Now I know we went about this ass backward buying the progressive press first, but I want a single stage to get my feet wet and for dialed in precision loads. The two in mind are the Lee challenger breech lock kit ($126 shipped on amazon) and the RCBS Rock chucker supreme master kit ($320 plus $50 rebate so $270) the Lee kit comes with all the same things the RCBS does, but the press is aluminum, not cast iron. The Lee also doesn't have the lifetime warranty the RCBS does. Anyone using the Lee single stage challenger? Can anyone attest to its quality? Is it worth it for me to pay over twice the price for the RCBS when all I'm getting is a different material press? I've read the Lee is great for pistol and small rifle loads, which is what I'm loading (9mm, .40, .223).

mustangfreek
20 January 2015, 16:31
Do you need all the little stuff the kits come with?.... if not ,my choice is if your budget minded get the lee breech lock press., if you like the green name..get the rcbs..i have pumped 1000's of rounds thru the lee presses and never had a problem, with anything.

Jerry R
20 January 2015, 16:39
Alright, next question. Which does are you guys using? Specifically .223, .40 and 9mm. .

On this, I use a variety of dies (though mostly Dillon). For 223 and 308 I suggest "Small Base" dies IF you have multiple firearms in those calibers. That die will resize to minimum manufacturing specifications - pretty much guaranteed to drop into any in-spec chamber (RCBS makes good ones). I like the Dillon dies because you can pull a clip off the die and the guts fall out for cleaning - you do not have to remove the die body - no re-adjustment necessary for cleaning. This is very important on seating and crimping dies. I like carbide sizing dies. I like the Lee "Factory Crimp" die for 223 and 308 - no bullet setback in semi-autos. You do not have to have a complete set from one manufacturer. On my 243 I use an RCBS small base size die with carbide expander ball, a Forster Ultra Micrometer Seating die and no crimp. I use a single shot Remington 40XB-KS in 243 for prairie dogs - shoots a third MOA consistently.

For pistol dies - use the Dillon carbide sets - the only way to go IMHO. Expensive, but your great grandkids will still produce factory caliber ammo (pun intended)

Jerry R
20 January 2015, 16:43
but I want a single stage to get my feet wet and for dialed in precision loads.

Sorry, just saw this. The precision ammo I mentioned above in 243 is done on the Dillon. Just because it is progressive, does NOT mean run of the mill quality output. The reloader pulling the handle creates the quality. Metallic reloading is one of the NRA courses I teach, so I have (or had) multiple press styles for class. The Dillon is what I use for my reloads. Take the money you would use for another press, and buy quality accessories (dies digital scale, etc.)

Ride4frnt
20 January 2015, 16:52
Sorry, just saw this. The precision ammo I mentioned above in 243 is done on the Dillon. Just because it is progressive, does NOT mean run of the mill quality output. The reloader pulling the handle creates the quality. Metallic reloading is one of the NRA courses I teach, so I have (or had) multiple press styles for class. The Dillon is what I use for my reloads. Take the money you would use for another press, and buy quality accessories (dies digital scale, etc.)

Thanks jerry. I understand that the dillon will put out very precise loads, but I like the peace of mind of being able to watch myself one step at a time. For the price of the kit, I don't think I'll mind paying for that and having it, even when I get comfortable enough to put these rounds out on the dillon. Too bad you're in florida, I'd love to take that class.

Jerry R
21 January 2015, 07:06
Too bad you're in florida, I'd love to take that class.

The single stage would be a good investment (cost not withstanding) for multiple reasons. You are spot on about the learning curve with it. But other uses come to mind. RCBS makes a nice primer pocket swage kit for military cases. That does not lend itself well to a Dillon; perfect for a single stage. My comments were more to the budget minded on initial startup.

Now, about Florida -------- the door is always open. If you are ever in the Central Florida area, drop me a PM. There might even be a couple of fingers of Gentleman Jack waiting for you. [:D]

Ordnance
21 January 2015, 23:55
Since I'm late to the party again... If you're serious about precision then consistency is your friend. Along with deswaging crimped primer pockets and uniforming the primer pocket you should be also deburring and uniforming the flashhole. It will create a more consistent burn from the primer ignition and consistency is your friend. Also, learn to do things like measuring to the ogive rather than the melplat which too many people do. Learn proper load development. Anyone can load ammo, but finding the harmonic node and seating depth is where it really takes you beyond. I would suggest going to Snipershide.com in the Reloading section and read the last 7 stickied threads at the top where you'll learn a lot about load development for accuracy as well as terminology that will come up and make it easier to understand. Lastly, remember reloading is a lot of Ford vs Chevy and everyone thinking their way is the only way because it's worked for them for 50 years... Don't fall into that trap. I will say that I like progressives, but the powder dispensers don't work well with some of the better stick powders like Varget, and if you're serious about accuracy then you should consider picking up a high quality powder dispenser like a Promethius or an RCBS 1500 Chargemaster Combo. Another cool tool you've never heard of but when you use it you'll be like "Where have you been my whole life?!"... Giraud Trimmer, lol.

Ordnance
22 January 2015, 00:00
I gotta tell you Jerry that the question of progressives and loading for precision even with the Dillon 650 is debatable. I wouldn't hesitate for basic AR ammo and pistol to use one, but for my match ammo it's always going to be a single stage. There are too many variables with the progressives which cause inconsistencies enough to make it not as ideal.

Jerry R
23 January 2015, 10:25
I agree completely. I use ball powder (or flake) for most rifle loads ("basic ammo") because it meters well; for match stuff (and Pdogs) I seat the primers separately, and use a precision powder measure. I only use the Dillon for resize/decap - and seating - no crimp.

Ordnance
23 January 2015, 13:22
I only crimp my 223 match because I run 77's and I've had issues in my SPR because I have a tight throat. Large frame semi's though I've never crimped, and I don't think it's necessary.

For anybody looking to do progressives with mostly 5.56 and who want to use the dispenser I highly recommend checking out Ramshot Tac if you haven't yet. Meters great, not temperature sensitive, and burns cleaner.

Ordnance
23 January 2015, 13:24
Also, when looking at dies I personally prefer either Forster or Redding. But like I said earlier that becomes somewhat of a Ford vs Chevy.