Which lower would you SBR?

[DutyUse]

So I am in a holding pattern at the moment, the Noveske will soon go for cerakote, and both pistol builds are waiting on Aero receivers that may take 2 months to arrive. So call me crazy but I think I need to start a SBR build, but don't know which lower I would want to designate for that project.

Option 1. 2A Balios (http://www.2a-arms.com/content/balios)
Option 2. BAD556 (http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad556-lw-lightweight-7075-t6-billet-lower-receiver)
Option 3. Billet UCWRG (https://www.ucwrg.com/materiel/lower-receivers/52/billet-lower-receiver-7075/)
Option 4. Atomic Tactical (http://www.atomictactical.com/atomic-tactical-inc-m15-billet-shocker-lower-receiver-stripped/)
Option 5. Other

[pop]

[CarbonScoring]

I'll vote for the Atomic, since I will be SBRing it once mine gets in.

Though all of the ones you listed are quality lowers.

[DutyUse]

Your the one who gave me the idea for the Atomic yesterday ;)

[rob_s]

I would not SBR anything billet, especially anything with odd styling cues like the BAD.

Of those you listed, the Atomic and the Umbrella (the names these people come up with would seem to betray their HUAS status) are the least offensive.

But I'd vote "other" and go with this, if you were set on a boutique part.
http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad-15-forged-lower-receiver-edm-magwell

[DutyUse]

I would not SBR anything billet, especially anything with odd styling cues like the BAD.

Of those you listed, the Atomic and the Umbrella (the names these people come up with would seem to betray their HUAS status) are the least offensive.

But I'd vote "other" and go with this, if you were set on a boutique part.
http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad-15-forged-lower-receiver-edm-magwell

I thought about going that route Rob, but if I'm going to SBR a forged, it would be a Gen 1 Noveske. Plus Akersc is doing a BAD build, don't wanna steal any of her thunder ;)

[voodoo_man]

All of them.

[CarbonScoring]

I would not SBR anything billet, especially anything with odd styling cues like the BAD.

Of those you listed, the Atomic and the Umbrella (the names these people come up with would seem to betray their HUAS status) are the least offensive.

But I'd vote "other" and go with this, if you were set on a boutique part.
http://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/bad-15-forged-lower-receiver-edm-magwell

There is definitely something to be said for using a forged lower. My first SBR (and currently only SBR) is my BCM. I could have used my Mega billet, but I wanted something that would work with most uppers. For me, SBRing a billet now is more for variety.

If I was going to do another forged, it would be a BAD-15 as well.

[DutyUse]

All of them.

Something i read from UW yesterday clicked, if I want to get a trust then SBR and Suppressor I need to shift my attentions toward it, and quickly. Because the process is so boringly long and I don't want some piece of garbage legislation to get rammed down the pipe and ruin my ability to own cool gear. Pistols are cool, especially when you have a CC license, but SBR's are where it's at.

[voodoo_man]

Something i read from UW yesterday clicked, if I want to get a trust then SBR and Suppressor I need to shift my attentions toward it, and quickly. Because the process is so boringly long and I don't want some piece of garbage legislation to get rammed down the pipe and ruin my ability to own cool gear. Pistols are cool, especially when you have a CC license, but SBR's are where it's at.

Get on that.

[Computalotapus]

I thought about going that route Rob, but if I'm going to SBR a forged, it would be a Gen 1 Noveske. Plus Akersc is doing a BAD build, don't wanna steal any of her thunder ;)

Actually she is going with a NTD set. Yes she is going to SBR it but it is a theme build and we know the lines will match up on everything she has selected. I will probably build a BAD build but I would love to see what you come up with as well.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I say do your favorite lower. One that you'll never part with because it's the be you live and your go to rifle. More than likely you'll have it forever, especially after you SBR it so choose your favorite. That's my take anyway

Regardless you better jump on it

[DutyUse]

I'll be getting a matching set for sure because like you guys said lines might be hard to match. All the one's I posted come in sets.

The pistols already have new homes once parts arrive, so it wouldn't be like I have 3 >16" uppers to choose from. Just the one, so why not make it something unique?

My heart was pretty much set on the 2A for it, but hey if something better was offered up I'm open to change.

[GOST]

My vote is the forged BAD-15, that's the one I'm doing. I'm with Rob_S, I'd rather have a forged one to SBR. A Mega forged is another good one. One reason I prefer forged over billet is the billet styles change often with the trends, forged never goes out of style. That's the reason Rolex watches keep the classic look, they don't go out of style. If I could pick any to SBR it would probably be a KAC.

[cagekicker204]

I really like my Gen 1 Noveske lower and figured if I was going to Form 1 a lower I am probably going to be stuck with it for ever so might as well get something milspec so I don't have to worry about proprietary parts 10 years down the road. I say pick the forged one you like the best and go with it.

[DutyUse]

My vote is the forged BAD-15, that's the one I'm doing. I'm with Rob_S, I'd rather have a forged one to SBR. A Mega forged is another good one. One reason I prefer forged over billet is the billet styles change often with the trends, forged never goes out of style. That's the reason Rolex watches keep the classic look, they don't go out of style. If I could pick any to SBR it would probably be a KAC.

That makes a lot of sense. That's why I come and ask here at WEVO before buying sprees..

[Thompson]

I would not SBR anything billet, especially anything with odd styling cues like the BAD.
Forgive my lack of knowledge - but why exactly is this bad? ... I was planning on picking up the CMT ambi billet lower to match my upper for my build.


Something i read from UW yesterday clicked, if I want to get a trust then SBR and Suppressor I need to shift my attentions toward it, and quickly. Because the process is so boringly long and I don't want some piece of garbage legislation to get rammed down the pipe and ruin my ability to own cool gear. Pistols are cool, especially when you have a CC license, but SBR's are where it's at.
Ugh - you're lucky you can do it now. Honestly, this age requirement thing is kinda BS :mad:

[DutyUse]

Forgive my lack of knowledge - but why exactly is this bad? ... I was planning on picking up the CMT ambi billet lower to match my upper for my build.


Ugh - you're lucky you can do it now. Honestly, this age requirement thing is kinda BS :mad:

They're telling me to go forged for several reasons. One is durability. Second, of the lowers I picked most needed it's matching upper or wouldn't look right and its a high probability I'll get more then one upper. Third is like Gost said what looks cool now my kids may not like in 20 years ya know? A 70's Colt SP1 still looks good.

That sucks man. Not sure how old you are, but I know in Ky you can own shotguns at 18 then everything else at 21.

[GOST]

Another thing about SBRing a forged lower is that you can remove the trigger guard and have the engraving done next to the trigger.

[Thompson]

They're telling me to go forged for several reasons. One is durability. Second, of the lowers I picked most needed it's matching upper or wouldn't look right and its a high probability I'll get more then one upper. Third is like Gost said what looks cool now my kids may not like in 20 years ya know? A 70's Colt SP1 still looks good.

That sucks man. Not sure how old you are, but I know in Ky you can own shotguns at 18 then everything else at 21.
Oh ok. Not to sidetrack the thread too much, but Is there anything wrong with going the billet route for an SBR? I was thinking about going the 300BLK route, thus the SBR route.

I'm 19 right now ... which sucks with 41p looming on the horizon ...


Another thing about SBRing a forged lower is that you can remove the trigger guard and have the engraving done next to the trigger.
I've heard this thrown around here and there - is that a requirement to have NFA engraving for NFA items or something? Or does that come down to paperwork/covering your rear?

[toolboxluis00200]

my spike tactical honey badger lower

[GOST]

Oh ok. Not to sidetrack the thread too much, but Is there anything wrong with going the billet route for an SBR? I was thinking about going the 300BLK route, thus the SBR route.

I'm 19 right now ... which sucks with 41p looming on the horizon ...


I've heard this thrown around here and there - is that a requirement to have NFA engraving for NFA items or something? Or does that come down to paperwork/covering your rear?
It's a requirement if you're doing a Form 1. The Form 1 basically makes you the manufacturer, that's the reason it has to be engraved.

[Ride4frnt]

It's a requirement if you're doing a Form 1. The Form 1 basically makes you the manufacturer, that's the reason it has to be engraved.

Yes. You need to engrave the name of the trust and city/state. Most other engravings on the gun (mfg, model, caliber, s/n) are reused as part of the form 1 info.

[MoxyDave]

In hindsight I'm super glad I SBR'd at least 1 standard high-quality (Aero) forged lower. No ambi stuff, no special magwell that only works with certain mags, lighter weight than billet and stronger too for the same mass.

I use the SBR lower for several uppers so it's nice to have ultimate compatibility with everything. That's why I recommend a standard high-quality forged lower for your first SBR. Just my $.02.

If you want a billet one, you can always do another later on.

[DutyUse]

Good points Dave

[GaSwamper]

Maybe not the ambi but I would think a standard CMT set would be a good choice. I would have probly done that Noveske you have if not a CMT.

[Thompson]

Particular reason against the ambi lower? Just curious.

[GOST]

Particular reason against the ambi lower? Just curious.

The ambi has some proprietary parts that years down the road if they break may be hard to replace. Not a deal breaker though, the KAC is ambi and I would still SBR it.

[WHSmithIV]

Do the 2A one. It's the more unique of the ones listed and possibly would be the only SBR done here with one. Also, the integrated QD mount points in that receiver would work better for a pistol or SBR than they would for 16" barreled carbine.

[WHSmithIV]

.........
That sucks man. Not sure how old you are, but I know in Ky you can own shotguns at 18 then everything else at 21.

Nationwide it's 21 for pistols or receivers.

[UWone77]

I'd SBR a forged lower for compatibility for the widest variety of SBR upper options. This is something you'll have for the rest of your life, so I'd get the most common forged lower you can find.

If you have multiple SBR lowers, you can obviously change it up, but my first 2 SBR lowers were plain jane milspec ones.

[Naytwan]

Would love to be able to SBR anything, darn CA. I originally voted for the BAD but I think the guys are right and you would be better off getting a standard mil-spec forged lower like an Aero or Spikes.

[WHSmithIV]

Feel for you Naytwan. The chance of changing the commiefornia laws is probably less than zero for the next couple decades. Too many liberal retards keep moving there. You're probably better off to leave and go to Texas or any other gun friendly state.

[WHSmithIV]

They're telling me to go forged for several reasons. One is durability. Second, of the lowers I picked most needed it's matching upper or wouldn't look right and its a high probability I'll get more then one upper. Third is like Gost said what looks cool now my kids may not like in 20 years ya know? A 70's Colt SP1 still looks good.


Let's see if I can address this a little to help regarding the difference between a billet and a forged lower. I spent a few years working in an aluminum foundry and extrusion plant not so long ago, Nordic Aluminum in Finland.

Aluminum bar stock gets melted and cooled into the bars. They are round bars, weigh around 3 tons and are generally about 12 feet long. This is done buy using raw aluminum from mining and also from using recycled aluminum of a given alloy such as 6060, 6065, 7075 etc. There are others also. Raw aluminum will have other metals added into the foundry pits to make these long, thick bars.

This is the material gun parts come from. Sheet aluminum is done a bit differently such as marine grade plates for ships.

So, lets go back to the gun parts because this is what we are discussing here.

There are a few basic ways of creating any metal part and aluminum is the easiest metal to work with because of it's much lower melting point. You can cast metal, forge it or machine it from a billet. However, the billet itself is already forged metal, it has been melted, poured into the heated bar form, pressure has been added to remove any air, it is then cooled and pulled out as a solid bar with other metals mixed in for whatever alloy is desired. It just hasn't been melted again to make it somewhat smaller. That's what extrusion does. Extrusion is mechanical forging. The entire bar gets fed into an extruder which melts the bar as it gets fed through and forces the metal into smaller shapes through dies that are disks of steel with machined holes cut in them where the aluminum (which has the lower melting point) is forced through into the desired shape. Curtain rods are also made this way. So are the floor beams for 18 wheel trailers - those get extruded into 40' lengths.

Back to the gun parts. If I take a piece of aluminum and I melt it, then pour it into a mold and cool it to remove it from the mold, that would be a cast part. The reason this isn't such a great way for creating any metal parts is that tiny bubbles of air will end up inside the metal part making it weaker.

For forging a receiver, you take the raw block which has been passed through an extruder (that was done with force and has therefore forged the metal), then you machine that block into your desired part.

With the billet part, you take that slice of that bar I mentioned earlier that came right out of the foundry, cut it into pieces that you want and machine them to your desired part. So, a slice will be cut off that long bar I mentioned after it comes out of the foundry. That slice will be cut into some smaller pieces and they will be machined, then anodized to what becomes the billet receiver.

For forged receivers, the bar will get melted again and extruded into smaller bar stock - generally around 6-7ft. long. They will be cut into appropriate lengths for companies to machine them - forging is the process of heating the metal to a workable state then pressing it with force into the basic desired shape (blacksmiths used hammers to do this).
Metalurgically, there isn't really any gain in strength of the metal from machining from a billet that was cut off the original formed bar or machining from bar stock that was forged.

So, what happens with all this?

Well, it is more expensive to cut that very thick, 3 ton bar into useable pieces. Those bars that come out of the foundry are about 1½ ft. in diameter. I've certainly moved enough of them with sideways driving, 5 ton forklifts. The forged (extruded stock) is much easier to cut. It's much smaller to cut.

Is there really any strength difference between these? No. A case could be made that the forged part can be stronger - remember, this is an alloy with some other metals. Re-melting it to forge it into smaller bar stock does provide for a better mix of the metals than what happens in the foundry. So, from a technical perspective the forged alloy would be a tiny bit stronger - by a very miniscule margin.

The final finish of the billet part though tends to be a bit better. Not always though and final surface machining is what really does make the difference for the finish, nothing else really. The measurable strength between the billet metal and the forged metal is miniscule with the forged metal having very tiny advantage. The machining itself can change that too.

[Naytwan]

Feel for you Naytwan. The chance of changing the commiefornia laws is probably less than zero for the next couple decades. Too many liberal retards keep moving there. You're probably better off to leave and go to Texas or any other gun friendly state.

Thats the plan but im a couple years out from that.

[Deadwing]

I'd SBR a plain old milspec forged lower. My first (and so far only) SBR lower is an Aero Precision. I've got a BCM and an LMT i'm also considering SBR'ing. As others have said, classic look, and near universal fit. Can't go wrong.

[2ATA]

You're way over thinking it. Just pick one and SBR it. It's not like you're trying to decide to buy a Ferrari F40.

[Hmac]

Nationwide it's 21 for pistols or receivers.

21 to buy from an FFL. In some states it's legal to possess a pistol at 18, you'd just have to acquire it in a private party transfer.

[Hmac]

SBRs are the rifles I shoot about 95% of the time. Certainly my preference for training or courses - 8-hour days carrying and repeatedly swinging up and down. I'd build one with the best quality I could afford. I have receivers from BCM, Rainier, Noveske, CMT, and BAD. I think that by far, the BAD-15 is the nicest and most accurately finished receiver I have. BCM is OK but the finish on mine is kind of funky. No complaints with the Rainier or the CMT. I have three Noveske Gen 1 receivers from years ago. All three are a disappointment relative to fitment...magazines and fitting other uppers.

[DutyUse]

SBRs are the rifles I shoot about 95% of the time. Certainly my preference for training or courses - 8-hour days carrying and repeatedly swinging up and down. I'd build one with the best quality I could afford. I have receivers from BCM, Rainier, Noveske, CMT, and BAD. I think that by far, the BAD-15 is the nicest and most accurately finished receiver I have. BCM is OK but the finish on mine is kind of funky. No complaints with the Rainier or the CMT. I have three Noveske Gen 1 receivers from years ago. All three are a disappointment relative to fitment...magazines and fitting other uppers.

Wow I'm surprised. I was searching for a gen 1 noveske last night.

What is your preferred barrel length? 11.5 or 10.3?

[WHSmithIV]

Wow I'm surprised. I was searching for a gen 1 noveske last night.

What is your preferred barrel length? 11.5 or 10.3?

I don't have personal experience with this DutyUse, however, ballistacally and in the design concepts of good SBR's you want to keep the barrel length optimum for the situation you would need to use it in. 10.5" (or 10.3") would be the better option. Keep in mind that the muzzle device will add length. Ideally, for .223 for short distances up to 50 yards 8.5-9.5" barrels would be best. These are SBR's you'd want to clear a building with.

You want to design based on the intended and expected use of the firearm. So, design based on what you need the gun to do.

That's the best advice I can give you.

[Hmac]

Wow I'm surprised. I was searching for a gen 1 noveske last night.

What is your preferred barrel length? 11.5 or 10.3?

Of my Noveske Gen 1 receivers, only one of them reliably drops Pmags. I've had to sand the mags down a little to get them to work consistently. I've also found that only one of them will consistently fit other uppers, including either of the other two Noveske uppers. Also, one of them has an issue with its mag release.

I opted for 11.5, BCM barrels - about 10,000 rounds through one of them. If I was doing it again, I'd use an 11.5 VooDoo innovations barrel...I recently put one on a 16 inch and so far have been impressed with the melonite concept. I thought about Sionics, but apparent'y no long term info on longevity - opted for the known quantity. My rationale for 11.5 is Paul Buffoni's opinion that the proportionally increased dwell time tends to result in a more forgiving gas system. Makes sense to me, and I've had no cycling issues with either of the 11.5 SBRs that I shoot (other than a result of a failed gas tube on the receiver end). If I was going to shoot suppressed, I'd probably go 10.3 with an adjustable gas block, but suppressors aren't legal in this state.

[UWone77]

SBRs are the rifles I shoot about 95% of the time. Certainly my preference for training or courses - 8-hour days carrying and repeatedly swinging up and down. I'd build one with the best quality I could afford. I have receivers from BCM, Rainier, Noveske, CMT, and BAD. I think that by far, the BAD-15 is the nicest and most accurately finished receiver I have. BCM is OK but the finish on mine is kind of funky. No complaints with the Rainier or the CMT. I have three Noveske Gen 1 receivers from years ago. All three are a disappointment relative to fitment...magazines and fitting other uppers.

Gen 1 Noveske Lowers seemed to be hit or miss. I have some C series lowers that are great, but have an X series one, that has a difficult time matching up with any upper, even after years of year. The rear pivot pin is probably slightly out of spec as I need a pin and hammer to remove.

[n4p226r]

You've actually received a billet ucwrg lower?

[cjd3]

If I'm correct, the Aero Gen 2 ambi lower will use the PDQ ambi catch, and a standard catch if something goes wonky with the PDQ catch. Because that's the direction I'm going right now.

[DutyUse]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/03/b60a32f72a76b5e58215d64b4150eeb6.jpg

Decided on a BCM for my first SBR.

Factory built lower.
11.5 BFH KMR upper parts build.

Really hoping BCM drops the 11.5 elw by the time stamp gets back. Went with Coyote Rifleworks Trust after talking with them awhile.

Really appreciate all the advice from yall and talking me out of some crazy billet piece. After thinking on it awhile it was going to be a colt M4A1 or BCM lower for this SBR and fate dropped this guy in my lap at the perfect time.





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[rob_s]

I've had the 11.5"'ELW-F KMR on email notification three times, and missed it every time.

[DutyUse]

Ya it seems everyone and their brother wants the 11.5 and 16 elw-f.

The BCM 14.5 LW BFH barrel with kmr is probably the nicest upper I've shot to date. Just sucks you have to p&w them.


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[Deadwing]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/03/03/b60a32f72a76b5e58215d64b4150eeb6.jpg

Decided on a BCM for my first SBR.

Factory built lower.
11.5 BFH KMR upper parts build.

Really hoping BCM drops the 11.5 elw by the time stamp gets back. Went with Coyote Rifleworks Trust after talking with them awhile.

Really appreciate all the advice from yall and talking me out of some crazy billet piece. After thinking on it awhile it was going to be a colt M4A1 or BCM lower for this SBR and fate dropped this guy in my lap at the perfect time.





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Good choice! That's going to be nice!

[DutyUse]

Thanks. Can't go wrong with BCM. I'd still like to find a noveske gen 1 set one day to SBR but this should be a great do all rifle.


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