Yet, another thread about barrels. Thank you...

[Txfilmmaker]

Okay. Here's the start of another barrel discussion. After reading my post, if someone has a link to another discussion that answers this, please direct me there. Some of you may know, that I have won a bunch of contests. I now have some pretty impressive parts. :) This is the only way I would get an AR at this time in my life. It's been pretty amazing! I'm down to only needing sights and a barrel to finish. I have some extra parts that I'm trying to sell locally. If that doesn't work, I will post them in the classified section of my favorite forum, WEVO. Since the parts that I have won are all high-quality, I would like to get a high-quality barrel to match with them. I think the parts I'm selling will allow me to get any of the barrels listed below. It may be that the higher-priced ones are a little bit too high. Still, I would like to know your thoughts on these barrels. I don't want to overthink it. The top two are the most expensive. I'm perfectly fine with the less expensive ones in the list. I'm just looking for feedback. I believe all of these fall in the "purpose of use" category that I have for this rifle. Thank you in advance.

Rainier Arms Mountain Series Cold Hammer Forged Barrel 5.56mm NATO - 16 Mid Weight 26oz?

Centurion Arms Hammer Forged Midlength Barrel - 16LW 26oz - Kind of light weight, but not that light. I don't want a pencil barrel. Approx. same weight as the Mountain Series.

Daniel Defense 16" 5.56MM MID-LENGTH,1:7,GOV PROFILE 1.7 lb 27.2 OZ.

Mega 556 Barrel - 16 Finished in Black Nitride Coating
GUARANTEED TO SHOOT SUB 1 MOA @ 100 YARDS WITH MATCH AMMO!!
31.2 oz. heaviest of them.

Ballistic Advantage 27 oz.
5.56 – 16” BA Hanson Midlength 1.9″
Is 1.9" related to the gas block?




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[UWone77]

What's the purpose of this rifle going to be?

[Ride4frnt]

UW, still got that fluted Rainier for sale? May be a good fit for him.

[UWone77]

UW, still got that fluted Rainier for sale? May be a good fit for him.

I do, which is why I kind of wanted to get an idea of what he wanted to do with his gun. I saw he liked the Mega barrel for the 1 MOA at 100 yards with match ammo.

The other 3 above the Mega are more of less hard use, general purpose barrels.

[DutyUse]

I'd echo UW and then also ask will this be your only current firearm for self defense?

Both the centurion & RA barrels are made by FN and are excellent quality. If this was my only AR I would go that route personally. If properly cared for your kids will still be shooting this barrel.

However another good choice would be Ballistic Advantage Nitride (https://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?product=5-56-16-government-midlength-modern-series-2) , especially for the price and quality level.

Edit: I was gonna link a voodoo barrel but I'm using a phone and it's to much work, however UW also has the same barrel I would have suggested for sell. Sounds like you two need to talk :D

[Txfilmmaker]

Yes. This will be my only current AR for self- defense. I will take a class from time to time when I can afford it. As an example of what complete rifle I would buy if I had the money. DDM4v11 or BCM KMR. Not looking for a bench gun, but a decently accurate multipurpose rifle.


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[Txfilmmaker]

I like the idea of a hard use barrel that's pretty accurate. Unfortunately right now, it probably won't see much hard use until I get better off financially.


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[UWone77]

You should look at the Voodoo barrel if you're looking to save some money.

Nitride coated, and reasonably priced. In fact I have a new one for sale in the classifieds.

[DutyUse]

Yes. This will be my only current AR for self- defense. I will take a class from time to time when I can afford it. As an example of what complete rifle I would buy if I had the money. DDM4v11 or BCM KMR.


The BCM CHF barrels are also from FN like the two you posted. Expect 1.5-2" accuracy, which is better then I and most can shoot offhand honestly.

However nitrided voodoo barrels are extremely wear resistant aswell. Same coating as a Glock and we all know how proven those are.

[GOST]

Between the 4 you listed I would pick the Centurion Arms. I've no experience with the Mega though. The Daniel defense is a really good option. It is the cheapest, has polished feed ramps and their customer service is great. The Centurion Arms and Rainier Arms are both produced by FN. If it's not going to be a bench rifle I would pick from your first 3, you'll be extremely happy with any of them.

[Txfilmmaker]

You should look at the Voodoo barrel if you're looking to save some money.

Nitride coated, and reasonably priced. In fact I have a new one for sale in the classifieds.

Sounds good, but I need to sell my 11" CMR first. I don't expect you to wait... :) I won't have the funds until then. I have the "B" accessory pack that I am selling with it. If I don't get any of offers soon (locally), I'll put it on the WEVO classified section.


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[Ride4frnt]

That voodoo UW has sounds about right for your needs.

[alamo5000]

I have a Rainier Select barrel and they guarantee sub MOA at 100 yards with that one too. All I can say is I LOVE IT.

Here is a bit of information that I have learned specifically about the Rainier barrel I have...and some observations of my own because I just got done with my build.

My barrel is stainless steel. Some people tell you that 'yes it's great but you won't have the barrel life'... NOT TRUE.

I shot 5 groups all back to back at 100 yards... all were 1" or less with off the shelf ammo. I am just now starting to test true match grade ammo. Needless to say I loved the barrel so much that I called Rainier Arms about nitride or melanite treatment for the barrel to extend it's life... and the answer came back "NO WAY. Don't." They have a proprietary system that hardens the barrel to the optimal performance. Any of the two previously mentioned treatments make the barrel too hard. Repeated shooting causes the then brittle metal to eventually crack... and they told me that if I do anything to it it will decrease the barrel life by about 20%.

At the same time their treatments of the barrel will give me 12,000 to 15,000 rounds down range (at least) before it starts to 'fall off' in performance. Stainless steel performance with that kind of life... not too shabby for $250 bucks or so.

That said, if I wasn't a plinker and I was more of a full auto guy I would opt for the mountain series or something like that.

That said if you aren't willing to invest in a good longer range optic and run with that optic, all this sub MOA talk is kind of overkill. Also if you don't have a decent trigger and so on and so forth, once again... the barrel will be a bit of overkill. Yes its cool to say my gun can shoot sub MOA, but the question is, can YOU shoot sub MOA? Or do you even care? If you are going to run a 4x power scope or less, trying to eek out those precision shots is harder to do.

Also if you are not going to routinely shoot really good ammo then the sub MOA thing can become moot. The best barrel on earth will 'suck' with crap ammo. Your shooting costs go up a lot when you are talking about match grade ammo. In other words a kick ass barrel needs other things as well to meet it's potential, especially when you go out past 100 yards... so ask yourself, are you really going to shoot 2-300 yards or more? Are you wanting to shoot the cheapest stuff you can find?

There is nothing at all wrong with a precision rig, I tried to build mine as such and the main thing I am wanting now is a longer optic.

But you have to ask yourself... are you really wanting to go for the sniper type shooting route and build up those skills, or are you going to be doing general purpose blasting and shooting without the obsession that comes with shooting groups?

I am with Uwone in that it sounds like you need to define your purpose and really take stock in what you really will end up doing with the rifle. Long story short, if you have an awesome barrel, with a so so trigger and a so so optic, or even a really good optic, but one that isn't designed for shooting at distance (IE a red dot or something like that) then some of those options might be better than worrying about getting sub MOA action out of a barrel.

[Txfilmmaker]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/e682711b667af33e2c62c1ea0ab20b3d.jpg. This is the trigger I just won. I also received a Lantac Dragon. I have been pretty blessed! :-) I guess everyone wants a tack driver, but I think I just want the most accurate multipurpose barrel. That might mean 1-2 MOA. I'm not apposed to stainless. This is all very educational and I appreciate all of the feedback. I'm learning a lot. I guess I'm looking for a loaded out Ford F1 50, not a Ferrari. And definitely not a Prius. :)


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[GOST]

With the added weight of the Dragon you may want to consider a LW barrel profile. BCM's ELW line has been getting great reviews, lighter than most LW barrels and handles heat like a standard profile. The ELW is $239.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Barrel-ENHANCED-LIGHT-WEIGHT-p/bcm-brl-mid-16-elw-std.htm

[alamo5000]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/21/e682711b667af33e2c62c1ea0ab20b3d.jpg. This is the trigger I just won. I also received a Lantac Dragon. I have been pretty blessed! :-) I guess everyone wants a tack driver, but I think I just want the most accurate multipurpose barrel. That might mean 1-2 MOA. I'm not apposed to stainless. This is all very educational and I appreciate all of the feedback. I'm learning a lot. I guess I'm looking for a loaded out Ford F1 50, not a Ferrari. And definitely not a Prius. :)


You definitely have the trigger for a precision shooter. I have found that building an AR is quite educational. I also found out that the more stuff I learn, the more stuff I want to try out... which gets expensive as hell after a while :)

[DutyUse]

With the added weight of the Dragon you may want to consider a LW barrel profile. BCM's ELW line has been getting great reviews, lighter than most LW barrels and handles heat like a standard profile. The ELW is $239.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Barrel-ENHANCED-LIGHT-WEIGHT-p/bcm-brl-mid-16-elw-std.htm

Holding out for the supposed "soon to come" chf elw barrel line. I've been meaning to try one though as i personally prefer a skinny barrel.

[GOST]

A lot of the reviews say that the balance of th 16" ELW feels similar to that of a 14.5" LW barrel. I've been waiting for a 11.5" ELW BFH.

[DutyUse]

A lot of the reviews say that the balance of th 16" ELW feels similar to that of a 14.5" LW barrel. I've been waiting for a 11.5" ELW BFH.

Haha me too, though the regular BFH 11.5 I got paired with a KMR already balances well. I have a sneaking suspicion the 11.5 and 16's will sell out quickly.

[Txfilmmaker]

You definitely have the trigger for a precision shooter. I have found that building an AR is quite educational. I also found out that the more stuff I learn, the more stuff I want to try out... which gets expensive as hell after a while :)

I am enjoying learning. This is a great place for that. If I had the money, I could see how it would be easy want to do different builds. I'm thrilled to be this close to my first one. :)

[Ride4frnt]

I am enjoying learning. This is a great place for that. If I had the money, I could see how it would be easy want to do different builds. I'm thrilled to be this close to my first one. :)

Whatever you do, don't have any leftover parts. Not even a roll pin. It will turn into another rifle before you know it.

I'm glad you're able to get into this one way or the other, and I think you'll love it. And you're gonna have one nice rifle when it's over with all those parts you cashed in on.

[Txfilmmaker]

:-)

[BoilerUp]

I'm certainly interested in the Hanson profile: http://www.nrablog.com/post/2015/01/22/Ballistic-Advantages-new-Hanson-Barrel-removes-lightweight-limitations.aspx

[Txfilmmaker]

I'm certainly interested in the Hanson profile: http://www.nrablog.com/post/2015/01/22/Ballistic-Advantages-new-Hanson-Barrel-removes-lightweight-limitations.aspx

Thanks for the link. Since I don't have the money yet, I have time to research and make up my mind.


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[alamo5000]

I am enjoying learning. This is a great place for that. If I had the money, I could see how it would be easy want to do different builds. I'm thrilled to be this close to my first one. :)

If you're in Spring I am right up the road. I would be glad to show you my build so you can get a feel for it and what all you're getting into. We can compare notes if you want.

[WHSmithIV]

Whatever you do, don't have any leftover parts. Not even a roll pin. It will turn into another rifle before you know it.

I'm glad you're able to get into this one way or the other, and I think you'll love it. And you're gonna have one nice rifle when it's over with all those parts you cashed in on.

He's likely going to be stuck for sure then. He needs to get lower pins and springs. If the kit comes with trigger springs or trigger pins, he's going to have them left over. That will end up meaning another rifle down the road [:)]

[DutyUse]

Sounds like he's already gotten bite by the bug. Welcome to the sickness, it's expensive and incurable :)

[Txfilmmaker]

If you're in Spring I am right up the road. I would be glad to show you my build so you can get a feel for it and what all you're getting into. We can compare notes if you want.

That's great. I will have to take you up on that. :)


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[Txfilmmaker]

Sounds like he's already gotten bite by the bug. Welcome to the sickness, it's expensive and incurable :)

DutyUse. Until about seven years ago, I never owned a firearm. My father-in-law was a gunsmith. I would politely ask him questions about what he did, but was only mildly interested. Then he gave me my first gun. A Colt 1911. I started going to the range and learning how to shoot it. I was hooked quickly! Next thing you know I have my concealed carry permit, a Glock 19, a Ruger 22 rifle and I'm consuming gun information daily. If I'd had the money, I probably would have five or six more firearms by now. After convincing my younger brother to go to the shooting range with me, he went out and bought four firearms in the span of five months. It is addicting. :-) I also work on a television show called Stop The Threat. It showed up at our production company about three years ago. I've gotten to meet Rob Pincus, Kathy Jackson, West Doss, a former FBI agent and Rich Portwood. You would not know who Rich Portwood is unless you watch the show. He is not famous, but he's a "salt of the earth" Midwest police officer who are now become friends with. And now I am making friends here. :)


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[Txfilmmaker]

If you're in Spring I am right up the road. I would be glad to show you my build so you can get a feel for it and what all you're getting into. We can compare notes if you want.

Where do you shoot/train?


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[DutyUse]

DutyUse. Until about seven years ago, I never owned a firearm. My father-in-law was a gunsmith. I would politely ask him questions about what he did, but was only mildly interested. Then he gave me my first gun. A Colt 1911. I started going to the range and learning how to shoot it. I was hooked quickly! Next thing you know I have my concealed carry permit, a Glock 19, a Ruger 22 rifle and I'm consuming gun information daily. If I'd had the money, I probably would have five or six more firearms by now. After convincing my younger brother to go to the shooting range with me, he went out and bought four firearms in the span of five months. It is addicting. :-) I also work on a television show called Stop The Threat. It showed up at our production company about three years ago. I've gotten to meet Rob Pincus, Kathy Jackson, West Doss, a former FBI agent and Rich Portwood. You would not know who Rich Portwood is unless you watch the show. He is not famous, but he's a "salt of the earth" Midwest police officer who are now become friends with. And now I am making friends here. :)


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From the outdoor channel?

[Txfilmmaker]

From the outdoor channel?

The new episodes are airing on the Pursuit Channel and reruns on The Sportsman Channel. Eventually we will start airing new episodes on Sportsman. If you search Youtube, you can see older episodes without commercial breaks. There is a lot good content. Especially for civilians.


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[rob_s]

However another good choice would be Ballistic Advantage Nitride (https://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?product=5-56-16-government-midlength-modern-series-2) , especially for the price and quality level.


How does one measure the quality level?

[rob_s]

My barrel is stainless steel. Some people tell you that 'yes it's great but you won't have the barrel life'... NOT TRUE.

I shot 5 groups all back to back at 100 yards... all were 1" or less with off the shelf ammo. I am just now starting to test true match grade ammo. Needless to say I loved the barrel so much that I called Rainier Arms about nitride or melanite treatment for the barrel to extend it's life... and the answer came back "NO WAY. Don't." They have a proprietary system that hardens the barrel to the optimal performance. Any of the two previously mentioned treatments make the barrel too hard. Repeated shooting causes the then brittle metal to eventually crack... and they told me that if I do anything to it it will decrease the barrel life by about 20%.

At the same time their treatments of the barrel will give me 12,000 to 15,000 rounds down range (at least) before it starts to 'fall off' in performance. Stainless steel performance with that kind of life... not too shabby for $250 bucks or so.



Has there been any testing to verify these longevity claims?

[BoilerUp]

How does one measure the quality level?

With a quality level meter

http://www.outsourcing-center.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/speedometer-quality.jpg

Alternatively, you can just use a quality level:

http://images3.cableorganizer.com/klein-tools/931-9RE_photo.jpg

Or, you can estimate it by taking into consideration things like materials, workmanship, accuracy, and customer service. That is the method I generally use since I don't want to invest in the special instrumentation/tooling.

[alamo5000]

Has there been any testing to verify these longevity claims?

Yes sir. Rainier Arms torture testing prior to the barrels being released.

I called Rainier Arms to ask them about Melaniting or Nitriding the barrel and they told me 'absolutely not' because it's already been treated with their own stuff. They said I could do it but it would lead to a 15-20% decrease in barrel life.

I had a 45 minute conversation about it with them directly about my barrel and asked them point blank about the life and other things. The particular person I spoke to was a competition 3 gunner and he said he uses the same barrel in his personal weapons. Based on Rainier's official testing and his personal use that was the estimate he gave. '12,000 to 15,000 down range before you see any fall off in performance' is a direct quote. Of course he gave the caveat of 'extremely hard use' such as running fully automatic fire or whatever... More or less he said it wasn't an exact science.... but that is what their own test results yielded.

They got batches before they were released and tested small batches of them while they were being developed. That is the reason for their proprietary treatment process.

Melanite and Nitride treatments work with some metals but the underlying metal and type of stainless steel used for barrels is a bit softer... so a softer flexible center and super hard treatment led to a fall off of about 20% in barrel life due mainly to cracking because of repeated recoil. This led Rainier to develop their own treatments that aren't 'as hard' as those other two but allow for a substantial increase in barrel life. They tried and found that 'sweet spot'.

Apparently the first batch they had made they nitrided and tried to failure... and the second batch they melanited also shot both to failure points... then they examined and discovered 'why'...and so on and so forth...

I can tell you that based on my direct conversations with them that I am extremely impressed by them. They have their act together.

I personally haven't tested it to failure points, nor do I intend to. I can only take them at their word.

[DutyUse]

How does one measure the quality level?

Don't know about you guys but I choose critical gun parts by using the eenie meenie miney mo method :)

[alamo5000]

How does one measure the quality level?

This is a very good question that a lot of people should be asking.

I think 'quality' is all relative to what one expects. Most people have a 'sharp picture of a fuzzy concept' when it comes to most things, guns included. I never owned an AR until recently so I am not very qualified to say one way or another, but I would say 'quality' is a function of 'intended use'... which many people fail to define.

For me I personally took a leap of faith and bought stuff... but I only did so after asking a lot of different people about it and taking special note of the people whom I felt had a 'special knowledge' of things and whom I very much respect their opinions. In fact several members of the forum, like Stickman, and UWone and others doled out some pretty sound advice, but it was only as good as the concept of the gun that I had in my mind.

At the end of the day I do not believe there is just one 'good' manufacturer.... I believe there are many...giving us all a whole lot of nice choices where we patronize.

All I know is I am overjoyed with the parts I have. CMT Tactical uppers and lowers are fan-friggin-tastic. And it's not just form but function, and value. Their 'no roll pins' assembly is just genius.

Rainier Arms has their crap together. No doubt about it.

SLR Rifleworks gave me a very good product.

CMC triggers... I like it. A LOT.

Please note this does not leave anyone out of my willingness to try and test out their stuff. Quality and value... no doubt make a good couple. That said, once again, in a crowded market place of so many vendors that do turn out great products... 'quality' is a function of intended use... but then again there are things that just flat out suck... but I am talking amongst those companies that make good solid parts.

[rob_s]

Yes sir. Rainier Arms torture testing prior to the barrels being released.


Is there somewhere we can read about this testing, procedures, methods, results, etc.?

[rob_s]

Or, you can estimate it by taking into consideration things like materials, workmanship, accuracy, and customer service. That is the method I generally use since I don't want to invest in the special instrumentation/tooling.

which we base on... What, exactly?

See when I see this barrel which is a known product from a known entity that is $230
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Barrel-Stripped-p/bcm-brl-s-mid-16%20std.htm

And then I see this barrel that appears to be representing an equal product for $70 less
https://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?product=5-56-16-government-midlength-modern-series-2

The LAST thing I think is "ooooh, that must be a good value". What I think is, "I wonder what corners they are cutting to save that $70".

[alamo5000]

Is there somewhere we can read about this testing, procedures, methods, results, etc.?

I don't know if the results were published or not. It would be completely dumb if they did though. They do all the testing then everyone else (including competitors) get to see the results? That wouldn't be very bright.

I am only basing my comments on a quite long conversation that I had directly with a Rainier Arms representative.

If in doubt call them yourself and ask what the barrel life is on a select medcon stainless barrel. See what they tell you.

I already had mine in hand and I liked it so much that I wanted to make it last longer...so I called them because their website only alludes to some sort of 'treatment' but I wanted clarification before I did anything.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Rob_s do you troll just to troll or is the a method to your madness?? I know your a long standing member but I see no point in the pointless questions you're asking. If someone decides the barrel is of quality to them and does what is needed what else matters. Do you have all the required testing materials to do the millions on testing most companies do? I mean no harm but really?!?

[DutyUse]

which we base on... What, exactly?

See when I see this barrel which is a known product from a known entity that is $230
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Barrel-Stripped-p/bcm-brl-s-mid-16%20std.htm

And then I see this barrel that appears to be representing an equal product for $70 less
https://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?product=5-56-16-government-midlength-modern-series-2

The LAST thing I think is "ooooh, that must be a good value". What I think is, "I wonder what corners they are cutting to save that $70".

I also thought the same way and was skeptical because of the price. Now I would never steer anyone away from BCM because I've had great success with them, but looking at my one example of Ballistic Advantage Modern series barrels compared to a BCM they are both superb. Now your correct only thousands of rounds and many examples can quantify this, but a quick peek around Google shows many other similar stories of success.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/25/890cd7d17c923a193b29728d5bb5bf9a.jpg

[alamo5000]

Is there somewhere we can read about this testing, procedures, methods, results, etc.?

From my understanding and conversation they didn't test just one barrel. They had a series of barrels for testing to remove any doubt about consistency or some one off problem or whatever...

Then some how or another over a period of time had people sitting back behind the things pulling the trigger. Exact (if any) methodology I don't know.

This is just speculation on my part but they could have just handed out a couple dozen free barrels to 3 gun competitors with the caveat that they keep records of approximate round counts and when they wear out to just send them back in for inspection. I don't know if it was done over a month or 6 months. I have no idea.

But the guy basically told me that once they had the formula on the things 'right' they went long on them and put their stamp on them. They didn't want to create a bunch of warranty issues and all that so all they really told me was that they tested them quite a bit before going all in.

[GOST]

Not putting words in Rob's mouth, but if your assembling a rifle to stake your life on wouldn't you spend a little extra and get a barrel from a company with some history. Not saying that the other companies don't pump out a great product, but they don't have the documented test on their products or as many people running their products. Companies like Colt, BCM and Daniel Defense are tested and true with prices competitive with a lot of other companies. There are a lot of companies making a great product but only a few that have pedigree.

[DutyUse]

Not putting words in Rob's mouth, but if your assembling a rifle to stake your life on wouldn't you spend a little extra and get a barrel from a company with some history. Not saying that the other companies don't pump out a great product, but they don't have the documented test on their products or as many people running their products. Companies like Colt, BCM and Daniel Defense are tested and true with prices competitive with a lot of other companies. There are a lot of companies making a great product but only a few that have pedigree.

I agree 100%. I suggested a FN chf barrel if this was his only AR originally. And I stand by that. Pick a flavor, Rainer, BCM, etc :)

[alamo5000]

Is there somewhere we can read about this testing, procedures, methods, results, etc.?


Check out this thread that I started...

http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?6658-More-Barrel-Questions

Post #41 from Uwone:

"I would expect a Rainier Select Barrel to get 10-12k

I have probably half a dozen or more Select Barreled uppers, one has 9k rounds on it. Still shooting sub-MOA at 100 yards."

----

Also see post #54 posted on the same day (or thereabouts) when I spoke with Rainier.

---

The quotes from John Noveske about barrels are interesting too...

http://www.defensereview.com/noveske-rifleworks-n4-light-recce-carbine-john-noveske-interview-part-one/

"Crane: Right, o.k., now you’re double-chrome-lining your barrels, or some of your barrels, not the stainless steel barrels, but the…

Noveske: The N4 Light Carbine and N4 Light Recce barrels.

Crane: Light Carbine barrels. You’re double chromin’ ‘em, and obviously, you must be getting a pretty nice even chrome job on there.

Noveske: Yes. I have a tolerance that is equal to a match-grade barrel.

Crane: Equal to a stainless barrel?

Noveske: Well, that doesn’t mean anything, because there’s a lot of different makers of stainless barrels, but there is a kind of an unspoken match-grade tolerance in the custom barrel world of 2/10ths of a thousoundth concentricity, or…in uniformity of bore diameter from end to end, and I spec that out on my chrome-lined barrels.

Crane: Are you the only guy that’s double-chrome-lining ‘em?

Noveske: That’s not the right [terminology]. "Double-chrome-lining" implies that I’m chroming twice. I’m chroming once to the technical data package requirements for the M249 machine gun [FN M249 Squad Automatic Weapon a.k.a. FN M249 SAW], which call out for a chrome thickness that is approximately twice the thickness of an M16 or an M4.

Crane: The barrels that we’re talkin’ about are Pac-Nor.

Noveske: Our stainless barrels are made partially in ourshop and partially in Pac-Nor’s shop. And, the relationship that I have with Pac-Nor…I used to work there, and now what’s goin’ on is I buy steel, I take it to Pac-Nor, when the guys clock out of Pac-Nor, they clock into our barrel production. They machine my blanks with our tooling, which is all made to our design, including the drills, reamers, button, so forth, so on. They stress-relieve to our recipe, and then they give the barrels back to us, and then we finish them all in our shop.

Crane: What type of stainless are they using?

Noveske: Well, they use 416 project 70. I use a different type of material.

Crane: And what about the standard steel barrels? What kind of steel is that?

Noveske: Let me back up. You can’t call the barrel that we make a Pac-Nor barrel, because if you call Pac-Nor and order a stainless barrel, it’s gonna’ be much different. It’s gonna’ be different in every way from the barrel I sell. So when you say "what kind of materal do they use?", last time I checked, Pac-Nor uses 416 project 70 made by Carpenter, and I use a different material which is technically considered 416R, and it’s a lot harder than any stainless we’ve ever tested from other manufacturers. Our stainless comes in around 32 on the Rockwell C scale, and that’s harder even than the call-out for the M16 barrel."

(416R is a type of stainless steel-- the same type or similar to what I bought from Rainier)

[GOST]

I'm not for certain but I believe that the a Rainier Arms Select line is made by Black Hole Weaponry instead of Pac Nor.

[alamo5000]

I'm not for certain but I believe that the a Rainier Arms Select line is made by Black Hole Weaponry instead of Pac Nor.

I've heard that rumor but I don't know of the validity of it.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I've heard that rumor but I don't know of the validity of it.

Talking with a certain person on another forum I can verify that...

[alamo5000]

Talking with a certain person on another forum I can verify that...

Verify that they make them or no? It doesn't really matter to me. It works. The rest is just fluff.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Verify that they make them or no? It doesn't really matter to me. It works. The rest is just fluff.

Yes they do! When I was looking a 308 barrel I was talking with BHW direct and he stated" who do you think makes rainiers" he was flaking about the select line so yes they make that series

[Txfilmmaker]

I also thought the same way and was skeptical because of the price. Now I would never steer anyone away from BCM because I've had great success with them, but looking at my one example of Ballistic Advantage Modern series barrels compared to a BCM they are both superb. Now your correct only thousands of rounds and many examples can quantify this, but a quick peek around Google shows many other similar stories of success.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/25/890cd7d17c923a193b29728d5bb5bf9a.jpg

I recently saw a positive review from MrGunsNGear on BA pencil barrel. Then I mentioned my barrel preferences to Matt, at Jerking the Trigger. Ballistic Advantage was not in the list of barrels that I gave him. He liked my choices, but said I should really give the Ballistic Advantage guys a look. Matt said they are very forward thinking. He has several and has had great success with them. He specifically pointed out their Hanson profile barrel. Fortunately I don't have to buy something tomorrow and I don't have the money yet. If I'm not sure, I'll just go with one of the ones you guys have recommended. I know others who stand behind these manufactures. Bravo Company, Centurion Arms and Daniel defense are three I would trust. I'm sure Rainier Arms has good barrels as well. They have a great reputation for quality. As an example of how I approach picking parts; My family gave me money towards my rifle for Christmas. After asking questions on this forum and talking to people, I decided to go with the Raptor. Because of the lower price, I was tempted to buy the mega arms charging handle that just came out. I wasn't sure if I would like it so I purchased the raptor. It may be a fine charging handle, up but I'm glad I bought the Raptor and I am confident that I have a quality part. Thankfully, I have a good quality level in my garage by my toolbox. :-)



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[alamo5000]

Yes they do! When I was looking a 308 barrel I was talking with BHW direct and he stated" who do you think makes rainiers" he was flaking about the select line so yes they make that series

Cool. That said why was he 'flaking'?

In any case Rainier told me (and their website says) that the post machining treatments are their proprietary system.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Cool. That said why was he 'flaking'?

In any case Rainier told me (and their website says) that the post machining treatments are their proprietary system.

Making* stupid iPhone autocorrect. Was verified by the guy I talked with at rainier when I won my 308 set. They put the final touches on their barrels.

[alamo5000]

Making* stupid iPhone autocorrect. Was verified by the guy I talked with at rainier when I won my 308 set. They put the final touches on their barrels.

I was pretty confused as to why they would be flaking out or freaking out about their own products! LOL

When I called Rainier they made no secret about it that they were 'getting the barrels in'...which implied pretty clearly other people were doing the machine work... that said they got no complaints from me.

Next time you talk to your friend tell him I am very satisfied with the product. Seriously. LOL

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I was pretty confused as to why they would be flaking out or freaking out about their own products! LOL

When I called Rainier they made no secret about it that they were 'getting the barrels in'...which implied pretty clearly other people were doing the machine work... that said they got no complaints from me.

Next time you talk to your friend tell him I am very satisfied with the product. Seriously. LOL

That's Black hole Weaponry all day. They make quality stuff. Even if it isn't a "tried and true" name lol

[BoilerUp]

which we base on... What, exactly?

See when I see this barrel which is a known product from a known entity that is $230
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Barrel-Stripped-p/bcm-brl-s-mid-16%20std.htm

And then I see this barrel that appears to be representing an equal product for $70 less
https://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?product=5-56-16-government-midlength-modern-series-2

The LAST thing I think is "ooooh, that must be a good value". What I think is, "I wonder what corners they are cutting to save that $70".


You might want to reconsider. Although I understand the "you get what you pay for" concept, you've actually picked an example where the BA barrel might very well be the better value. For starters, in the example you cite, the BCM barrel costs $91.95 more (for me, living in WA, as BA offers free shipping). That is 57% more expensive than the BA barrel, so how much better does the BCM barrel have to be to justify that cost? Both BCM and BA use Chrome Moly Vanadium per the same MIL-B-11595E spec. But the BCM barrel is chrome lined whereas the BA barrel is QPQ treated. These are two very different manufacturing processes and I believe the chrome lining is a more expensive process which is also harder to get the precision required to turn out a very accurate barrel whereas the QPQ may actually provide a superior result at a lower cost. Personally, unless some clear evidence comes out against QPQ to convince me otherwise, I may never buy another chrome lined barrel for an AR.

I also have to say that a lot more goes into setting a price than cost and a lot of costs that have to be recovered by the sales price have nothing to do with the quality of the product you are buying (e.g., rent on the nice storefront, a high end website, sending a few people to set up and man a booth in Las Vegas once a year, photographers, attractive models, website advertising, etc). Selling to the military can also have a large impact on your pricing policy to the consumer/commercial market.

For guys that are trying to squeeze what they can out of every buck they make, there is a lot of opportunity to be found if you dig into the true value proposition of what is available in the market. Expensive or Mil-Spec aren't always better and the technology is always evolving.

[UWone77]

I think the point rob was making was, BCM is a known quality. Doesn't mean that BA can't be, but for a duty/HD gun, I'm going to grab my BCM everytime, or a few other ones I'm confident in.

I know you can get Ballistic Advantage Barrels pinned with a gas block directly from them. However, I got mine from Weapon Outfitters.

Unless you have some bits to drill nitride coated barrels, you are SOL. Obviously not a big deal if you get it from BA directly or don't care about pinned gas blocks. I've also got a BA barrel from Aero, which also doesn't have a pinned gas block. Again, this is more of a FYI, if you care about such things.

Right now I'm not for or against nitride coated barrels, but I'm going to stick with quality chrome lined for now.

[rob_s]

UW has it right.

Whale jizz coating that *might* be better, or known-entity chrome lining?

Barrel from an unknown that *says* the material is MIL-B-11595E, or from the company that has posted certs online, paved the way for non-Colt use of the material, and stopped production and sued suppliers for not delivering, AND who HPT/MPIs the barrels?

Do these things matter to the dirt-shooter, the duffer, the Internet-picture poster, etc.? Probably not. The barrel will "last a lifetime" for most gun-owners because most gun-owners aren't shooters, and sitting in a safe never wore out a barrel. Or, the the gun-as-Barbie-doll guy, the barrel will be changed out for new-new-hotness just as soon as the thrill of the first "build" wears off.

There is s difference between a forever gun and a fiddle-fart gun. I used to have both. The fiddle-fart is no longer of interest to me. I'm looking for a known quality product, from a known entity, at will be there in the rare case that I have a problem, because I want to go shoot the guns. If the purpose of your barrel is to provide the long black rod inside the handguards, your priorities may be different.

I ask questions about these products not to troll but because I'm currently looking for my next 20k round gun. Given my reduced shooting volume these days that is likely to take 8-10 years where it used to take 4-5. It also used to get spread over a bunch of guns, many of them not mine, whereas going forward it will be one or two guns, which I'll be paying for all out of my own pocket. So "value" is important to me, but part of the value equation is getting the performance I require. Given that I am looking to "set it and forget it" I would need a lot more documentation than has been provided here to trust an unknown and un-vetted product from a new entity.

YMMV and all that.

[DutyUse]

If you want a proven 20k rounds out of a barrel only one that comes to the front of my mind is the filthy 14 ala BCM/FN. Can nitride withstand 20k rounds? Certainly glocks with that many and more. I'm not a scientist but the research indicates the tennifier process used by Glock is almost if not identical to what we now refer to as Melonite/Nitride/QPQ.

The real question isn't what barrel can spit out 20k rounds, but which BCG can withstand that many rounds WITHOUT repair. In that regard the hunt goes on.

Whale Jizz hehe :)

[BoilerUp]

QPQ/Nitride isn't a "coating", it's a treatment. And I'm pretty sure whales aren't involved.

LWRC seems comfortable with it:

NiCorr™ surface conversion has proved more lubricious, harder wearing, more heat and corrosion resistant than the hard chrome normally used in the bore. Our barrels can handle 20,000 rounds before replacement, as compared to 6,000-10,000 rounds on a standard M4.
https://www.lwrci.com/t-technology.aspx

And HK isn't chrome lining the barrels on their MR line.

the MR556A1 does not use a chrome-lined barrel. Chrome-lining can sometimes mask bore imperfections and negatively affect accuracy. For the new series of Heckler & Koch semi-automatic MR rifles, HK designers and engineers believe best accuracy comes with an unlined bore.
http://hk-usa.com/hk-models/mr556a1/

BCM is certainly a little to no-risk choice, but there is plenty of science behind the Nitriding process.

The interesting thing about "value" is that each of us has to make that judgment on our own, and the answer varies from person to person. Some people place a lot of "value" on brand name recognition.

[GOST]

If you want a proven 20k rounds out of a barrel only one that comes to the front of my mind is the filthy 14 ala BCM/FN. Can nitride withstand 20k rounds? Certainly glocks with that many and more. I'm not a scientist but the research indicates the tennifier process used by Glock is almost if not identical to what we now refer to as Melonite/Nitride/QPQ.


Glock isn't a real good example since muzzle velocity is most likely under 1300 fps.

[DutyUse]

Glock isn't a real good example since muzzle velocity is most likely under 1300 fps.

I knew someone would bring that up ;)

Or the fact just dry firing them can create wear marks on the barrel hood.

It's not perfect. Neither is chrome lining when it comes to accuracy deviation. I do believe the "treatment" of melonite is becoming more common place but is in its infancy when it comes to Rifle parts. At this point in time I agree a Heavy use or self defense barrel and bcg should be chrome lined, but if you have several wth experiment with other materials, coatings and treatments.

[Txfilmmaker]

I hate to sound redundant, but all of this is really good and educational. You have to realize that, I don't know what I don't know, but I love learning. Notable, on BoilerUp's post, is that both LWRCI's & HK's barrels are CHF. I did not see anything about the Filthy 14's barrel being CHF. Does anyone know if it was CHF? It obviously has a pretty impressive history of durability.


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[UWone77]

I hate to sound redundant, but all of this is really good and educational. You have to realize that, I don't know what I don't know, but I love learning. Notable, on BoilerUp's post, is that both LWRCI's & HK's barrels are CHF. I did not see anything about the Filthy 14's barrel being CHF. Does anyone know if it was CHF? It obviously has a pretty impressive history of durability.


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The Filthy 14 was the standard button rifled barrel

[DutyUse]

The Filthy 14 was the standard button rifled barrel

Didn't know that. I need to read that article again obviously.

Was there another torture test on a BCM BFH barrel?

[GOST]

Didn't know that. I need to read that article again obviously.

Was there another torture test on a BCM BFH barrel?

I doubt a CHF barrel will be much more durable than a button rifled barrel. The biggest advantage to CHF is bore consistency. The chrome lining is what gives the barrel round count durability, and is stronger than the underlying 4150 grade (CMV) steel.

[Txfilmmaker]

The Filthy 14 was the standard button rifled barrel
Looks like a barrel like that would last me a lifetime.


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[Txfilmmaker]

I doubt a CHF barrel will be much more durable than a button rifled barrel. The biggest advantage to CHF is bore consistency. The chrome lining is what gives the barrel round count durability, and is stronger than the underlying 4150 grade (CMV) steel.

Would that make the CHF more accurate? Or would it not be enough to matter? Before all this started with me winning all of these great quality parts, I would've been thrilled to have owned an M & P Sport. Now, I would like to get a good quality barrel that seems in place with the other parts I have. (Example: CMT TAC Upper/BCG) I like the concept of the Ballistic Advantage Hanson profile barrel, but I really like the track record and reputation of BCM, Daniel Defense and Centurion Arms barrels. I'm leaning towards the BCM & DD since they are more affordable than the Centurion Arms barrel.


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[GOST]

The CHF barrel could possibly be more accurate, but I've seen chrome lined button rifled barrels that are just as accurate. The ammo you decide to use will play a part in accuracy. Some of the time a cheaper barrel with better ammo will out perform an expensive barrel with cheap ammo. An expensive barrel with cheap ammo is like a Ferrari running on 85 octane, you won't get peak performance.

[Computalotapus]

Would that make the CHF more accurate? Or would it not be enough to matter? Before all this started with me winning all of these great quality parts, I would've been thrilled to have owned an M & P Sport. Now, I would like to get a good quality barrel that seems in place with the other parts I have. (Example: CMT TAC Upper/BCG) I like the concept of the Ballistic Advantage Hanson profile barrel, but I really like the track record and reputation of BCM, Daniel Defense and Centurion Arms barrels. I'm leaning towards the BCM & DD since they are more affordable than the Centurion Arms barrel.


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I have a BCM LW 14.5" Mid-Length that I am happy with so far. The only bad thing I can say about it is that I had to open the gas port up just a hair. Other than that is has been an awesome barrel and shoots decent groups. I am sure if I spent more time I could get the groups down to 1 MOA, but honestly I just need to hit a 16"x24" target at 100 so I don't worry about it to much.

[Txfilmmaker]

The CHF barrel could possibly be more accurate, but I've seen chrome lined button rifled barrels that are just as accurate. The ammo you decide to use will play a part in accuracy. Some of the time a cheaper barrel with better ammo will out perform an expensive barrel with cheap ammo. An expensive barrel with cheap ammo is like a Ferrari running on 85 octane, you won't get peak performance.

I understand.


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[Txfilmmaker]

I have a BCM LW 14.5" Mid-Length that I am happy with so far. The only bad thing I can say about it is that I had to open the gas port up just a hair. Other than that is has been an awesome barrel and shoots decent groups. I am sure if I spent more time I could get the groups down to 1 MOA, but honestly I just need to hit a 16"x24" target at 100 so I don't worry about it to much.

Outside of a way to describe accuracy, I don't want to get too hung up on the MOA thing. Sure... I'll take that match grade accurate, sub-MOA, cold hammer forged, thick barreled, melonite & dbl chrome lined treated, light weight 22oz 16" version, please. $160 dollars, right? Which one is that? ;-) LOL. I "am" considering a 16" or 14.5" LW OR ELW BCM. Those are definitely possibilities. You're the second WEVO Vet to suggest those and BCM barrels, in general, are on my short list.


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[DutyUse]

Get a 16". 14.5's are to much headache

[Txfilmmaker]

Get a 16". 14.5's are to much headache

I was leaning towards the 16." Any thoughts on the light weight barrels?


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[rob_s]

This gun eventually made it to 20k rounds and was still firing ~1.5" at 100 yards.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/11/04/ballistic-radios-10k-round-test-knights-ar-15/

Same barrel, same bolt, same everything. Besides just general wear and tear, it also wasn't cleaned.

[Hmac]

See when I see this barrel which is a known product from a known entity that is $230
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Barrel-Stripped-p/bcm-brl-s-mid-16%20std.htm

And then I see this barrel that appears to be representing an equal product for $70 less
https://ballisticadvantagellc.com/?product=5-56-16-government-midlength-modern-series-2

The LAST thing I think is "ooooh, that must be a good value". What I think is, "I wonder what corners they are cutting to save that $70".

Yeah, I have to say I tend to think the same thing. The reason I skipped the Sionics barrel I was looking at in favor of the VooDoo Innovations barrel I bought.

This area is ground zero for Huldra, which uses the VooDoo melonite barrels. I know and shoot with the company principles. I've seen them shot a lot, and over many thousands of rounds, enough to think that melonite barrel was worth a try in putting together the rifle I just built. I also have a Noveske "double chrome-lined" with over 10,000 rounds, and a couple of BCM CHF 11.5 barrels I've been shooting for a few years. No complaints with any of them. They're all acceptably accurate and so far holding up fine, as near as I can tell.

[Txfilmmaker]

Knights barrel is plenty accurate.


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[DutyUse]

I was leaning towards the 16." Any thoughts on the light weight barrels?


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All of mine are LW but one. I would suggest an BCM ELW 16" if you decide on going the lightweight route

Edit:


This gun eventually made it to 20k rounds and was still firing ~1.5" at 100 yards.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/11/04/ballistic-radios-10k-round-test-knights-ar-15/

Same barrel, same bolt, same everything. Besides just general wear and tear, it also wasn't cleaned.


Good read. Thank you for posting. Didn't know a bolt had made it that many rounds

[Txfilmmaker]

All of mine are LW but one. I would suggest an BCM ELW 16" if you decide on going the lightweight route

Edit:


Good read. Thank you for posting. Didn't know a bolt had made it that many rounds

If I go light weight, the ELW is probably the one I will go with. Thanks



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[Txfilmmaker]

When asked about my barrel choices and weights/profiles, these three well respected instructors basically are saying, "It doesn't matter..." They have all been guests on a tv show I work on.

Rob Pincus
...other people there probably care much more than I do about those types of details. I think an ounce or two is almost irrelevant.
If price were equal amongst those choices, I would go with the DD Barrel based on quality.

Steve Vandermolen ( local instructor )
Any of them will work well. It is a matter of budget in the end.

Wes Doss
Marty, not really, I don't use any of my AR's for that level of accuracy that cant be done with a factory barrel. I do like better triggers, most of mine have Gisselle triggers



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[UWone77]

Realistically, how many rounds are you going to put down range per year?

[Txfilmmaker]

Very good question. Thank you for asking. Given my current financial situation, kids, job and side businesses, not many. As I said earlier, the only reason I am even able to get this rifle is because I won most of the expensive parts. So I probably will be doing well, at least for the next few years, to shoot 500 rounds a year. Maybe... So maybe it really doesn't matter... If money wasn't an issue, I would lean towards a Centurion. Not because I need it. Just the quality. I do like most of the barrels suggested. Admittedly, I tend to overthink these things. I'm trying not to... :-)


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[rob_s]

So it sounds like you're trying to balance the idea of holding to the perceived quality of the parts you won with the financial realities of family life.

personally, I'd buy a BCM lightweight barrel (either standard, ELW-F, or BFH, as budget/tastes allow) and move on with the caveat that if you're just going to be posting up at a bench, shooting through some sort of magnified optic, then I'd look at the 16" WOA stainless barrel from ADCO.
https://www.adcofirearms.com/itemdetails.cfm?inventorynumber=182

[Stone]

[QUOTE=rob_s;89521]UW has it right.

Whale jizz coating that *might* be better, or known-entity chrome lining?

By "Whale jizz" do you mean Nitrocarberizing?

[SINNER]

Out of all the different barrels I own Daniel Defense always seem to be the barrel on guns that become my favorites. I do not put nearly the amount of rounds through mine like some of you men do but the lack of noticeable wear and consistent accuracy indicates they are real durable barrels.

[Stone]

Very good question. Thank you for asking. Given my current financial situation, kids, job and side businesses, not many. As I said earlier, the only reason I am even able to get this rifle is because I won most of the expensive parts. So I probably will be doing well, at least for the next few years, to shoot 500 rounds a year. Maybe... So maybe it really doesn't matter... If money wasn't an issue, I would lean towards a Centurion. Not because I need it. Just the quality. I do like most of the barrels suggested. Admittedly, I tend to overthink these things. I'm trying not to... :-)


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I will always err on the side of caution, meaning that wouldn't you rather have a barrel that is over qualified based on a perceived firing schedule than to have an increased firing schedule in the future and have a barrel that is now under qualified? IMO I wont build or buy a rifle that I wouldn't take into combat. Granted, all I do is run and gun and train under a heavy firing schedule. Even so, if I only had one rifle it would be rock solid, have the capabilities to be run hard, put up wet and take whatever abuse I could possibly encounter. You know which barrel you want, save up your pennies and wait to get it. Don't compromise.

[Txfilmmaker]

Sinner - Daniel Defense and Bravo Company are definitely on the shortlist.


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[Txfilmmaker]

I will always err on the side of caution, meaning that wouldn't you rather have a barrel that is over qualified based on a perceived firing schedule than to have an increased firing schedule in the future and have a barrel that is now under qualified? IMO I wont build or buy a rifle that I wouldn't take into combat. Granted, all I do is run and gun and train under a heavy firing schedule. Even so, if I only had one rifle it would be rock solid, have the capabilities to be run hard, put up wet and take whatever abuse I could possibly encounter. You know which barrel you want, save up your pennies and wait to get it. Don't compromise.

Thanks - It seems like, Centurion, Daniel Defense and BCM would all qualify.


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[Txfilmmaker]

So it sounds like you're trying to balance the idea of holding to the perceived quality of the parts you won with the financial realities of family life.

personally, I'd buy a BCM lightweight barrel (either standard, ELW-F, or BFH, as budget/tastes allow) and move on with the caveat that if you're just going to be posting up at a bench, shooting through some sort of magnified optic, then I'd look at the 16" WOA stainless barrel from ADCO.
https://www.adcofirearms.com/itemdetails.cfm?inventorynumber=182

Correct. :)


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[Stone]

What helped me make a final decision on which barrel to use was to make a list of all the quality's I wanted from a barrel and then compare the barrels to my list not the other way around. It narrowed the field dramatically, down to three to be exact, and with a little more research I narrowed it down to one.

[Txfilmmaker]

What helped me make a final decision on which barrel to use was to make a list of all the quality's I wanted from a barrel and then compare the barrels to my list not the other way around. It narrowed the field dramatically, down to three to be exact, and with a little more research I narrowed it down to one.

Good advice.


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[Stone]

If you still have Ballistic Advantage on your radar,(Hanson profile) do a little research into Clint Hanson(master armorer)His shoulder less design is awesome. The guys resume is second to none. Here's a few links to get you started.

http://www.nrablog.com/post/2015/01/22/Ballistic-Advantages-new-Hanson-Barrel-removes-lightweight-limitations.aspx

http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/special-ops-tactical-hanson-14-5-review

[Txfilmmaker]

If you still have Ballistic Advantage on your radar,(Hanson profile) do a little research into Clint Hanson(master armorer)His shoulder less design is awesome. The guys resume is second to none. Here's a few links to get you started.

http://www.nrablog.com/post/2015/01/22/Ballistic-Advantages-new-Hanson-Barrel-removes-lightweight-limitations.aspx

www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/special-ops-tactical-hanson-14-5-review/undefined

Thank you. I've actually been trying to contact them this week via email and Facebook. No response yet. I'm hoping this is just because they are recovering from Shot Show.

Do you know anyone with first hand experience using this barrel?



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[Txfilmmaker]

Conceptually, I like this barrel. I just don't want to go "experimental" without some more evidence from people I trust. $225 with gas block is interesting.


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[Stone]

From what I hear, Adam at BA is really hard to get a hold of, I hear he is a one man show working on a thousand orders. I do have one of their barrels but its made for Special ops Tactical which is owned by Garrett Potter and Clint Hanson. I believe its an original one off Clint Hanson design that he made for SOT. Call Garrett at SOT, he is a top notch guy. Last time we spoke the conversation lasted an hour. He works directly with Clint and knows Adam well. https://specialopstactical.com/

Ask him about SOT's barrels first, then ease your way into his relationship with BA. If you know what I mean...

[Txfilmmaker]

Okay, thank you. I just now heard back from them. I'm assuming, based on what I've read, that this barrel handles really well when you're moving. Is this correct?


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[Stone]

Not sure what you mean? When your moving??

Fixed the link from above
http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/special-ops-tactical-hanson-14-5-review

[Txfilmmaker]

Not sure if I am asking this correctly. Moving from target to target in a carbine class or three gun match. The balance of the rifle vs standard profile barrel. They claim it has a "lightweight feel without light weight limitations."


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[rob_s]

I haven't used the barrel in question, but that's the kind of nonsense marketing that makes me dismiss these kinds of companies and their products.

[SINNER]

"Ultimately what you're going to notice is the exterior profile of the barrel. No right angles and every barrel comes with a pin low profile gas block. A lot of things happen with the exterior of a barrel that cause a lot of variations."

I feel like I lost a few I.Q. points just from reading that bullshit.

[Txfilmmaker]

It's still an option. I don't have the money together yet. It is the least expensive option. The Daniel Defense barrel is the most reasonably priced cold hammer forged barrel of the ones I'm looking at. And then there's the possibility of going with ELW from BCM. Right now, the CHF barrels have a slight lead with the BCM ELW and the BA Hanson being interesting options. I have heard several people saying very positive things about BA barrels. I'm not typically an "early adopter." So we will see. I do really appreciate all of everyone's input.


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[Stone]

I haven't used the barrel in question, but that's the kind of nonsense marketing that makes me dismiss these kinds of companies and their products.

"I haven't used the barrel in question" So what you are saying is you have made a judgment on something you know absolutely nothing about. Thanks for your input :rolleyes: Because of uninformed comments like this, its the very reason new product manufacturers hate gun forums. I have had conversations with several new product manuf. and have told me this first hand. Oh and congratulations, 976 posts and this is the first one you didn't mention BCM or Colt. I am sure there were a lot of folks like yourself that said the same thing about BCM when they started up. Do you see the irony rob?

[Stone]

"Ultimately what you're going to notice is the exterior profile of the barrel. No right angles and every barrel comes with a pin low profile gas block. A lot of things happen with the exterior of a barrel that cause a lot of variations."

I feel like I lost a few I.Q. points just from reading that bullshit.

Ah come on, don't sell your self short. You cant loose what you didn't already have. :P

He is talking about barrel harmonics and accuracy.

Try this: http://www.stocks-rifle.com/harmonics.htm

[Txfilmmaker]

I don't let marketing speak affect my impressions. An IT friend of mine once said, the difference between he and the sales guys he supported was, he knew when he was lying to the client. :)


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[Txfilmmaker]

Ah come on, don't sell your self short. You cant loose what you didn't already have. :P

He is talking about barrel harmonics and accuracy.

Try this: http://www.stocks-rifle.com/harmonics.htm

Interesting article. Thanks for posting.

This is from from Bravo Company/BCM. Same design concept as the Hanson barrel.

"BCM Exclusive Design

Continuous taper designed for optimal weight, balance, and performance on a semi-automatic carbine.

Heavier profile toward the rear near chamber area.

Thinner tapered profile out front.

No sharp handguard cap shoulder for improved barrel harmonics"
------------
Would I be correct in saying these improved harmonic would be most important when shooting from a bench?


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[Stone]

But wait, that cant be because their number one salesman said "that's the kind of nonsense marketing that makes me dismiss these kinds of companies and their products." BWhahahahahaha!!!!! I love you Rob!

[DutyUse]

No experience with the Hanson series barrels so can't speak about it positively or negatively. I've only had a positive experience with BA so far so that's what I can report.

Rob keeps bringing up colt and BCM because they are proven. Like I said earlier I would get a known product for my first AR. After you got a known performer then try different products.

I would like to think I do good research before buying parts and At the moment I have 4 barrels in my possession, 3 of them are BCM's. Only time will tell with the BA, but honestly the only reason I strayed from BCM was because I wanted to try nitride bcg and barrel for my own testing.

[Txfilmmaker]

No experience with the Hanson series barrels so can't speak about it positively or negatively. I've only had a positive experience with BA so far so that's what I can report.

Rob keeps bringing up colt and BCM because they are proven. Like I said earlier I would get a known product for my first AR. After you got a known performer then try different products.

I would like to think I do good research before buying parts and At the moment I have 4 barrels in my possession, 3 of them are BCM's. Only time will tell with the BA, but honestly the only reason I strayed from BCM was because I wanted to try nitride bcg and barrel for my own testing. I'll tell you honestly If shit goes down I wouldn't be grabbing for that one though..

I'd like for the BA ($225 with LPGB) to be "all that," but I am leaning towards DD & BCM (CENTURION ?) because they are proven. DD seems to be the most reasonably priced of the CHF barrels and on par with BCM. I would definitely try a BA if I could build a few rifles. But, like you said, "first rifle." :) I still have to sell my extra parts to get the money for the barrel. So I still have time to decide. Even if I don't get a BA, I will probably keep my eyes on them to see how that technology pans out over the long haul.


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[DutyUse]

Only two companies I know of (and if someone can correct me please do) that have their own chf machine for AR barrels is DD (no experience) and FN (BCM, spikes, palmetto state, Rainer, centurion, noveske all have one barrel Series from them). Now they have more then one series of barrels but more then likely if a company is offering a CHF barrel it's produced by FN (military contractor).

I wouldn't recommend something I don't or haven't owned personally. The only reason I posted the BA barrel originally is I didn't know your budget, and didn't know how many rifles you already owned. My first AR was a CL'd rock river and despite all the people running them down on other forums that thing chewed up untold thousands of mixed rounds with only a few minor hiccups. Just about any barrel will work, we're just arguing vague and to you moot points. Just buy one you like and run it, and then post pictures :)

[UWone77]

If you're honestly going to shoot less than a case of ammo a year, any barrel will probably do the trick.

I along with rob are proponents of proven companies, because we know they'll run. I'm also a fan of BCM, Colt, ect because it sounds like this is your only AR.

[Txfilmmaker]

Only two companies I know of (and if someone can correct me please do) that have their own chf machine for AR barrels is DD (no experience) and FN (BCM, spikes, palmetto state, Rainer, centurion, noveske all have one barrel Series from them). Now they have more then one series of barrels but more then likely if a company is offering a CHF barrel it's produced by FN (military contractor).

I wouldn't recommend something I don't or haven't owned personally. The only reason I posted the BA barrel originally is I didn't know your budget, and didn't know how many rifles you already owned. My first AR was a CL'd rock river and despite all the people running them down on other forums that thing chewed up untold thousands of mixed rounds with only a few minor hiccups. Just about any barrel will work, we're just arguing vague and to you moot points. Just buy one you like and run it, and then post pictures :)

A friend of mine does narc raids with his RRA and is very happy with it. :-) I'm friendly with Rob Pincus and he is a big DD fan, but I know BCM is at least as good.

[Txfilmmaker]

If you're honestly going to shoot less than a case of ammo a year, any barrel will probably do the trick.

I along with rob are proponents of proven companies, because we know they'll run. I'm also a fan of BCM, Colt, ect because it sounds like this is your only AR.

I agree. Any barrel would be fine. But, because I can't afford to be an "early adopter," I'm a fan of proven company's as well. I should be able to sell enough stuff to get one of barrels you guys reccommend. Then it's time to build and chose some sights. :) I appreciate the feed back of you all. I have a lot of respect for your knowledge and feel fortunate to have access to the "WEVO Brain Trust." Thanks again.

[Txfilmmaker]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/31/fcb90114036ba0d32d10f2a2e230643a.jpg I don't have a decent place to take pictures, but here are some of my parts, laid out.


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[Txfilmmaker]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/31/1605f85fed39cd8c4c521ff291b22c65.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/31/55a4966bc0f94a22e05f8cf177712e3f.jpg

[mustangfreek]

Nice stuff!!

[Txfilmmaker]

Nice stuff!!

Thanks, Mustangfreek. I'm pretty excited about it. :-)


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