New LWRC subgun

[Calengor]

http://youtu.be/QuJ7mPMINOQ?t=2m30s

Thoughts? Supposedly it will eventually come in 9mm, .40 and .45 caliber. Unlikely I'll ever own one due to MD's new laws being retarded, though.

[MonkeyBomb]

I have wanted a 45 cal sub gun for a long time. I don't know if I would drop the cash for one though. I guess it would depend on the price point. It looks like a more compact UMP 45.

[VIPER 237]

Guesstimates from lwrc's both is 2016 release and a $2000-$2500 price point.

[voodoo_man]

$2500, comes out 2016.

Lwrc will use their own mags, will have 9mm conversation available. design makes it heavier than ump45, but more stable. 7inch barrel.

the price is going to be an issue.

[alamo5000]

Here is a question for you folks in the know.

I see this gun and I automatically want one no doubt. But of course there is that damned $200 SBR tax stamp and another $200 stamp for a suppressor.

Now for the sake of argument let's say this also has 3 round burst/fully auto variants available to 'someone' IE law enforcement or whatever.

I am not quite sure of how the whole 1986 law applies when it comes to new fully auto rifles etc. I have heard in other places that '1986' essentially stopped the production and sale of any new fully auto firearms on the civilian market... well I guess so... but I am not sure. So for those who buy full auto sub guns, they have to buy guns that were already out before 1986? Or can any 'new' guns like this be sold in 3 round/full auto provided you do all the bullshit paperwork and pay all your taxes on it?

What's the story? $200 bucks and you can get an SBR. $200 and you can get a suppressor. I assume it's another $200 if you want to transfer a class 3 weapon (full auto)... but can I buy a NEW full auto provided I jump through the hoops or is that a no no?

[Calengor]

no auto unless it was manufactured and registered by 1986 unless you're a law enforcement agency or a class 3 FFL with a demo letter from a law enforcement agency.

[alamo5000]

no auto unless it was manufactured and registered by 1986 unless you're a law enforcement agency or a class 3 FFL with a demo letter from a law enforcement agency.

So my hopes of buying a brand spanking new fresh off the factory floor MP5 are shot all to hell unless I become a class 3 dealer?

Why do you need a demo letter from law enforcement? What is the purpose of that? So a regular class 3 just allows you do deal in pre-1986 full auto... but you have yet another hoop if you want a 2015 fully auto (even as a dealer)?

[Former11B]

So my hopes of buying a brand spanking new fresh off the factory floor MP5 are shot all to hell unless I become a class 3 dealer?

Why do you need a demo letter from law enforcement? What is the purpose of that? So a regular class 3 just allows you do deal in pre-1986 full auto... but you have yet another hoop if you want a 2015 fully auto (even as a dealer)?

You can still find brand new-never used Pre-'86 MP5s. It'll cost you $30k though. You'd be surprised how many unused/like new pre-86 guns are out there. Lots of people bought and registered them for an investment and stashed them away.

[Calengor]

As I understand it it's because they want to limit civilian ownership of full auto weapons. You need a class 3 FFL, so that limits the amount of people right off the bat, especially since the ATF doesn't really approve FFLs without a storefront anymore. On top of that, they don't want people to get their class 3 FFLs just to be able to have full auto weapons, so they want you to actually be trying to sell one to an authorized entity (law enforcement agency), hence their requirement for a demo letter from a law enforcement agency.

[alamo5000]

You can still find brand new-never used Pre-'86 MP5s. It'll cost you $30k though. You'd be surprised how many unused/like new pre-86 guns are out there. Lots of people bought and registered them for an investment and stashed them away.

I went and had a range day with a couple of them a few months back. An MP40 and an MP5. I like the fun switch.[:D]

A friend has one of each.

He has entirely too much money.

[Former11B]

You can never have enough fun coupons

[Calengor]

http://i61.tinypic.com/2uondwy.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/2u6lp55.jpg

http://i60.tinypic.com/9amlw9.jpg

[El Cid]

I must have one of these! SBR with an Osprey 45K on the end. If the photos are to be believed, this will take AR pistol grips and triggers. Can anyone confirm?

[n4p226r]

wish it had an AR style mag release though

[Tyrannosaur]

I must have one of these! SBR with an Osprey 45K on the end. If the photos are to be believed, this will take AR pistol grips and triggers. Can anyone confirm?

Ya on their forum it says mil spec AR parts. The guys there are trying to see if an AR buffer and stock or compact stock can replace the current one. Also says most likely available to civilian market in 2016... So you have time to save. Takes US made UMP mags too.

[Dark1]

If the price is right and that make a 16" version (I live in a min class 3 state ) I will be selling my H&K USC/UMP-M3 conversion and replacing it with this

[UWone77]

6487

Looks like the project is still kicking... will do a lot more sales with that Brace.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/04/27/lwrcs-smg-45/?fbclid=IwAR3r67e86LFAlpzenY7ymz46JRq2Cjc3dWlYbyfF 5rW4A9BxlQBAXoqe5Ww

[schambers]

Glad this thread was resurrected.

I have been looking for a .45 sub gun that took something other than glock mags, and was pretty excited when this was first announced.

Their final price is a little hard to swallow but I'm still excited for it and will probably pick one up at some point. Hopefully by the time I get one, problems that might be found in the initial production will be shaken out.

Also happy to hear LWRC confirm caliber conversions, and it sounds like they can be done without too much fuss.

[BoilerUp]

https://youtu.be/rTfNrjXEzwY

[Stone]

XGA is taking pre-orders on these. https://xtremegunsandammo.com/shop/rifles-for-sale/lwrc-smg-45/

[UWone77]

I need to find me some industry hook up price for one. 3k is a large pill to swallow.

Glad for the pistol option though, since the laws in my state are changing to get a rifle. Ugh.

[SINNER]

L-ikely
W-on’t
R-un
C-orrectly

[schambers]

I need to find me some industry hook up price for one. 3k is a large pill to swallow.

Glad for the pistol option though, since the laws in my state are changing to get a rifle. Ugh.

I need to find me some UWone77 hook up for an industry hook up price.

Also didn't know LWRC had a bad reputation? I've never had problems with their stuff.

[VIPER 237]

I still think I’d take a B&T over the L-dub, especially at $3k.

[MoxyDave]

CMMG Banshee or one of these for me in a year or so ... that price needs to come down tho, they are out of their minds.

[Default.mp3]

Also didn't know LWRC had a bad reputation? I've never had problems with their stuff.LWRC are quite hit and miss. From what I've heard, if you get one that works, it'll run and run. However, if it doesn't, you're in for some serious issues. An older post, but still:


Since the purpose of this board is to share information among people who carry guns for a living, I decided to make write this post after a couple of discussions about LWRCs as duty rifles.

When I started where I work, the 416 was the issue SBR. As the rifles were used and parts wore out we started having problems sourcing components. The combination of proprietary everything and HKs disdain for their customer base made getting new bolt and trigger group parts a giant PITA. When the HKs neared the end of their service life we replaced the 416s with LWRCs.

The LWRCs showed up in country a little over two years ago. We received a mix of eight and ten inch uppers on LWRC select fire lowers. Prior to turning in our old rifles I took my team out to the range with 10 of the new guns. Our intention was to run at least 300 rounds through each gun to ensure they functioned reliably. This was going to be the first of 3 trips that we planned before turning in our HKs and issuing the LWRCs. We were using a mix of Emags, Pmags, HK steel mags and USGI aluminum mags. The ammo was a mixture of M855, M855a1, Mk262 mod 1, and X135.

Over the course of the day we identified 4 of the 10 rifles with out of spec chambers which caused repeated failures to extract. In some cases it could be cleared by “mortaring” the rifle on the deck. One rifle required the casings to be knocked out with cleaning rods. In addition 5 of the 10 rifles had lower receivers with improperly cut disconnectors. This problem cause inadvertent 2-3 round bursts while the rifle was on semi-auto and the occasional discharged round when the trigger was reset. When we approached LWRC we were told it was most likely an operator issue.

After some yoga and meditation (so I didn’t feel the need to light someone on fire) I sent the rifles back to my boss. He confirmed the issues and sent the rifles from my team and two others (all experiencing the same problems) back to the states where he hand carried them to LWRC to demonstrate the problem. Upon demonstration and examination, LWRC agreed that the rifles were faulty and fixed the problems. We got the rifles back and they now seem to be working.

In addition to the problems with the 5.56 guns, we recently sent back several REPRs that wouldn’t feed reliably. After a little research I discovered that this is a known issue at LWRC. Instead of contacting people who purchased rifles in the identified serial number range and making them aware of the problem, LWRC chose to handle the complaints as they came in. As someone who was supposed to use this rifle overseas, I’m annoyed by that decision.

Finally, I personally own two 10.5in uppers from LWRC. I purchased them and set them up as stand-ins for my work rifle. I use them when I train in the US. One of these uppers has run like a top for just over 25k documented rounds. I’m re-barreling it when I get home. The other upper cracked the gas block after less than 2k rounds. LWRC replaced it after some back and forth.

Conclusion –

If you’re using the rifle for range trips and you have money to burn, give LWRC a try. If it doesn’t work, they’ll make it right eventually. If you are looking for a gun to use for duty/HD, stick to a proven platform like BCM, LMT or Colt. Cool guy factor just isn’t worth rolling the dice on an LWRC product. Their QC has been too hit or miss for me to give them a go.Source: https://www.lightfighter.net/topic/fyi-lwrc-issues

On the other hand Colt own LWRC now, so I guess you can claim that it's a Colt piston gun, too, amirite (besides the P0923).

[Stone]

2012? Really? Now you have a sample size of two. One douschefuck that got boned up the ass 100 years ago and still waits for the LWRC threads to appear so he can open the door, take a shit and run away. Dude, you really need to grow the fuck up and move on, let it go already.(You know who you are) There isnt one rifle manufacturer out there, KAC, Colt, BCM, HK etc,etc, that hasnt had a turd go out the door, its just the nature of the buisness. Here is Borebrush's response in that thread.

"All I have to say about this is.

Please tap the breaks on the haterade train, and give me a minute so I can say my piece...

I know of Mick's situation well. It happened a while ago. My company was not brought "on board" to handle the LWRCI armorers courses/support until this year.

It would be improper of me to post about something I know only a little more about than what has been divuldged here. What I will say is this...

In MY USGOV armory, we performed 100% acceptance of all weapons upon receipt from the vendor. I'd rate an entire subforum if I sat here and told every story of how XYZ company fucked us by sending us 7/200 carbines with misaligned barrel nuts, or ABC company sent us 2000 black box pistols with plastic internals, instead of 2000 blue box pistols that were built to agency spec...


My point is, shit fucking happens, thats why you have school/manufacturers trained armorers who inspect shit when it comes in, before you push it out to the field.

This is why a good portion of my armorers class is spent teaching the students what else their job entails, other than issue/deissue and swappin parts.

It really sucks that those carbines left the factory... changes have been made. There is an industry term in common usage, The Demons of Mass Production. Google it.

It really sucks that the problem was discovered by the end user, a good dude and someone who I highly respect. When this thread was posted, I was running an armorers course at the plant. I nearly set fire to the joint. But, WooSaah prevailed and I just had calm, enlightening discussions with those involved.


First impressions and all...

As an end user, I get it.


ABNINF,

It sucks that you got blue balled on your rifle. Little shit like that is why the management is pushing new hires through my armorers course when seats are available. I will be approaching the subject of an inhouse class or two. (that way I can get 100% borebrush indoctrination there).

However, comma... I am going to scuff you up on one point regarding your situation.

You fixed your buffer detent issue within five minutes (with common parts you sourced easily).

Then the very next line you say, "I wanted a gun that if it broke I don't need proprietary parts to fix it".

First of all, the vast majority of the gun has parts commonality with the rest of the AR family. Specifically the lower (where you had your issue). The only parts you can't buy direct are the barrel w/ gasblock, and the upper (due to the steel oprod bushing insert). Any and all other replacement parts can be sourced on the webstore. Not all to different from how most shooters source parts from BCM and Brownells.


The list of shooters who've broken the shit out of an LWRC is real short. My first gun, that I wrote about on the Stud Board, finally gave up the ghost when I had bent the entire drive train (oprod, intermed rod, nozzle) At that point, I retired it and moved on to my SPR and SBR. Maybe I'll pull it off the wall the next time we are running a course and I'll rebuild the system and then shoot the fuck out of it some more. I know it will work.

The fact I see people say they are unfit, as a brand, for duty use just really gets my goat. There are so many local, state, and gov agencies who are running these rifles and are happy with them, alot of the comments here just fly in the face of fact.

Keep in mind, I'll shoot a motherfucker with anything. #3 on my bucket list is a flipflop. Its not just because its this company.

I work on both sides of the aisle, and when I see due diligence falter on the manufactures and agencies side, the end user gets fucked. Every time."


I know Borebrush and Pat Rogers torture tested a few of their rifles. Ran them dry and ran them hard just to see what they could take. They did well. Another torture test was ran up to 80K rounds with 4 barrel swaps. The piston setup on that rifle still ran well along with the rifle itself... Pick any manufacturer, we can always find someone who thinks their product is shit.

[Default.mp3]

2012? Really? Now you have a sample size of two. One douschefuck that got boned up the ass 100 years ago and still waits for the LWRC threads to appear so he can open the door, take a shit and run away. Dude, you really need to grow the fuck up and move on, let it go already.(You know who you are) There isnt one rifle manufacturer out there, KAC, Colt, BCM, HK etc,etc, that hasnt had a turd go out the door, its just the nature of the buisness.A friend of mine saw four REPRs from Larimer County SO that wouldn't run, from 2016, so a little more recent. Keyholing at 50 yards, feeding/extraction, etc., with every gun making at least two trips back to LWRC.

Another buddy of mine had three different rifles; issues included broken piston springs in <500 rounds, non-enhanced bolts despite being advertised as having enhanced bolts, gas blocks contacting the handguard, and bolt catches that didn't lock back on empty on PMAGs, although I believe they were older guns.

I've also had buddies that had LWRCs that just ran and ran. So they're clearly not obvious garbage, but they do seem to have consistency issues. Yeah, everyone puts out turds (I have a friend that has had two out of two KACs that had issues, which were eventually resolved), but the LWRC stories seem to be a fair bit more prevalent. They definitely tend to be on the older side, so I can totally believe that they've ironed out all the issues and have changed the company culture to not use customers as testers, but the fact remains that their reputation is not sterling, even if it's not necessarily an accurate representation of their current quality.

And yes, markm's obsession with shitting on LWRC is hilarious.

As for the SMG, I would prefer that they had used M-LOK instead of the threaded inserts. The pricing is also rather outrageous, even if they are offering one of the few non-blowback PCCs.

[Stone]

"And yes, markm's obsession with shitting on LWRC is hilarious." Yeah, he has taken obsession to a whole new level.

[VIPER 237]

I have an 8 inch PSD upper that I can’t make stop, but I’ve broken 2 of their ambi charging handles with normal use.

[voodoo_man]

I'll wait for a 9mm pistol version...that's under $1500.

[BoilerUp]

I'll wait for a 9mm pistol version...that's under $1500.

I think that's called a Sig MPX

[SINNER]

Except the SIG won’t be a overpriced, unreliable piece of shit.

I’ve owned 2 LWRC weapons and both were total garbage.

[PJD642]

I think that's called a Sig MPX


Except the SIG won’t be a overpriced, unreliable piece of shit.

I’ve owned 2 LWRC weapons and both were total garbage.


Only thing I've got to add to this is my gen 2 MPX runs like the proverbial top...everyone that shoots it just grins their face off. Best purchase I've made in a long time.

Now if only they'd do a caliber conversion kit for .357Sig for it.

[tact]

I owned more than a couple LWRCs, 2004 to present........they ran perfectly.

[VIPER 237]

More like B&T GHM9


I think that's called a Sig MPX

[UWone77]

More like B&T GHM9

I would agree with that. B&T Guns are head and shoulders above the SIG. In fact I just ordered an APC and a TP9.

[UWone77]

Rainier Arms had 5 today and all sold out. Apparently, 5 more are coming shortly.

https://www.rainierarms.com/lwrci-smg-45-acp-pistol-8-5/

[MoxyDave]

Interesting. Can't wait to see the reviews. I already picked up a CMMG Banshee, but I'm still interested ...

[UWone77]

Interesting. Can't wait to see the reviews. I already picked up a CMMG Banshee, but I'm still interested ...

Same... still interested, but I'm going to wait to see how they shake out after some shooting.

[Stone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYuDFFXMXdk

[Stone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZznVWtEmKE

[BoilerUp]

Garandthumb just gave a "I cannot recommend" review due to the poor accuracy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOxjWxpi5bg

[MoxyDave]

I watched that review yesterday. I'm kind of disappointed, but not surprised. Kind of lost interest at this point; haven't even had time to shoot my Banshee ... too many hobbies, too little time ...

[SINNER]

Gee big surprise. Another piece of shit from LWRC.

[mustangfreek]

Lol...