PDA

View Full Version : Hello! Newbie questions.



IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 18:47
Hello everyone. I am new here. I am an avid outdoorsman, hunting, shooting and so on. I have recently decided to build an AR-15. I have never owned one before. I have done a great deal of research recently. I have a few opinion questions with my build. I bought a lower and lower assembly kit last week. I went today and picked up a stripped upper. I want to do the entire build so it's exactly like I want instead of paying for things I will take off. I got home this evening and noticed that my new upper doesn't really have the same finish as my lower. Seems to be a little more dull. Is that normal? Idk how much I'm worried about it right now but if I can get one that will match I might change it. On the the next thing I've been considering. I have done a lot of research on barrels. I will mostly be target shooting and coyote hunting with this gun. Most shots will be 200 yards or less. The barrel I think I've decided on is an 18" 1 in 7 twist 416R Stainless steel with melonite. Might be a little over kill for what I want but would like some experienced opinions. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I look forward to being a part of this community.

UWone77
10 February 2015, 18:51
First of all welcome.

Generally, receivers from the same company will match pretty close. If you get and upper and lower from separate companies, their finishes will not usually match. Which companies did you go with? This is not a big deal, unless you are a little OCD (we all are) and want them to match perfectly. This doesn't affect the function of your gun.

A stainless barrel will easily do what you want it to do at 200 yards or less. In fact, I'd probably go 16" with a 1/8 twist. At 200 yards, you won't miss the extra velocity with a 16 vs 18. I'm sure some of our regular hunters will chime in.

Ride4frnt
10 February 2015, 18:52
The finish is normal. Best way to get the same finish is to buy upper and lower from same manufacturer, and even that can be a crapshoot. It doesn't make the gun function differently. If you're worried about it, have the whole set cerakoted.

My opinion on the barrel...if this is your first, and likely to be only for a while, go 16". It's got more mobility, less weight, and plenty of capability to shoot 200yds accurately. I love my 18" gun, but it's not the one I'm going to be carrying around out in the woods, or a carbine course, etc. It's pretty much a bench gun exclusively.

Edit: UW beat me to posting, as I pretty much mimicked what he said.

GOST
10 February 2015, 19:05
Welcome to Weapon Evolution. Anodizing can be hard to match. If you want a good match I'd recommend Cerakoting, the stuff is very durable. As far as barrels go if your wanting melonite you may want to checkout Triarc or Sionics, they are both getting good reviews and are well priced. Keep us updated on your rifle.

http://triarcsystems.com/product/16-track-barrel/

http://sionicsweaponsystems.com/store/product.php?id_product=116

IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 19:07
Thanks for the info. Maybe I will go with 16". The lower I got is an anderson. I started thinking I will do it on the less expensive side but deciding I would like some quality components. The upper I'm not exactly sure. It was in a plastic bag. But it has a keyhole marking on the side. I think I remember somewhere reading that the keyhole is decent quality. I am thinking I want to go with a nickel boron bolt group.

alamo5000
10 February 2015, 19:07
Hello everyone. I am new here. I am an avid outdoorsman, hunting, shooting and so on. I have recently decided to build an AR-15. I have never owned one before. I have done a great deal of research recently. I have a few opinion questions with my build. I bought a lower and lower assembly kit last week. I went today and picked up a stripped upper. I want to do the entire build so it's exactly like I want instead of paying for things I will take off. I got home this evening and noticed that my new upper doesn't really have the same finish as my lower. Seems to be a little more dull. Is that normal? Idk how much I'm worried about it right now but if I can get one that will match I might change it. On the the next thing I've been considering. I have done a lot of research on barrels. I will mostly be target shooting and coyote hunting with this gun. Most shots will be 200 yards or less. The barrel I think I've decided on is an 18" 1 in 7 twist 416R Stainless steel with melonite. Might be a little over kill for what I want but would like some experienced opinions. Thank you for taking the time to read this. I look forward to being a part of this community.

Welcome to the forum.

I am still a FNG but I just built an AR myself from the ground up and I have gotten some great advice from members here. I have put a lot of leg work into deciding what I want and all that and all that homework really pays off. As for the barrel I don't think you would want or need an 18" for that range. It won't hurt anything but it won't really help either. It might even just be too long actually and might get in the way if you are in the brush or whatever. There are too many other factors involved than just 'length' when determining a quality barrel and what you are after.

Check out my thread that I just posted up. I have been testing and evaluating ammo/zeroing my optic/ and other stuff along those lines. My barrel is a 16" select medcon from Rainier Arms (it is also a 416R barrel) and today I shot a 3 shot group at 100 yards that was .7 inches. Pics are on the other thread. Your optic and all that needs to be determined too, but just length alone is not all there is to barrels.

I got turned on to Rainier and now I am preaching the gospel of Rainier to everyone. They live up to the hype. They aren't the only ones out there but they are great.

I can go into a lot of detail from stuff I have learned about Nitride vs Melonite vs other for treating of the barrels... as well as the types of metals involved.

alamo5000
10 February 2015, 19:19
Here is a link that really helped me... passing it around again.

http://www.defensereview.com/noveske-rifleworks-n4-light-recce-carbine-john-noveske-interview-part-one/

After you get done with that one we can help discuss further other things that I have learned in my own research.

All in all here in the forum you will get some sound advice. Just keep in mind that there is not one 'correct answer' to every scenario. It all depends.

After doing my first build I think the most important thing you can do at this time is to specifically define what you want the gun to do (which you have sort of done). Having a clear vision for the purpose of your gun---defining that--- is vital. Not only how do you want it to look but what is it's job going to be (very specifically). After you sharpen that up some there are numerous very good and knowledgeable people here who can give you satisfactory options for your aims.

IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 19:27
I was doing a bit of research on barrels just now since I'm thinking 16" now. I ran across a company that talks very highly of their own barrels. They seem to be fairly prices so wondering if anyone has had any experience with the equipment from. Integrity Arms. I was looking at 4150 moly with melonite 1:8 twist.

IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 19:27
Thank you alamo!

IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 19:31
Thank you Gost. The sonic is in the price range I'm looking.

Dstrbdmedic167
10 February 2015, 19:38
As a first welcome! I have the same sentiments as others here on your first barrel. I've never used the above mentioned but on paper they look good. I can however promise that even if you think you've built this rifle exactly as you want you'll find something as you run you wish you'd have done differently. The great thing about the AR-15 platform is if you don't like something there is a part that will allow you to change it. Try it, run it and report back. Let us know if you have any more questions.

GaSwamper
10 February 2015, 19:40
Welcome, you'll find the 16'' to be great in the woods and fine for typical hunting shots especially predators in woodland terrain. If you were in open country with longer shots the 18''-20'' will give you an edge. I even shoot 200yds with a 10.5'' barrel chambered in .277 wolverine and have taken deer with it out to 150yds with ease. Do you do any other hunting besides the yotes?

IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 19:40
That is great advice. I've already run across changing things a lot and I've only just started. I can only imagine what the future of this build will bring. Haha thanks.

GaSwamper
10 February 2015, 19:46
I've met the owner of Integrity Arms and he seems to live up to the name. I've handled his barrels but never used one, they are good looking for the price point. He says they are done by the same people that do the ARPerformance barrels but I cannot confirm, if it's true my ARPerformance 6.8 is one of my most accurate.

IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 19:52
Yes i hunt anything I can. Deer, ducks, geese, pheasants, rabbits, squirrels and anything else I'm able to hunt.

IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 19:53
Thanks GaSwamper I think i might give them a shot. What's the worst than can happen? I have to buy a different barrel? Oh no. Haha.

UWone77
10 February 2015, 19:55
Thanks GaSwamper I think i might give them a shot. What's the worst than can happen? I have to buy a different barrel? Oh no. Haha.

I like the way this guy thinks.... [:D]

alamo5000
10 February 2015, 20:04
I was doing a bit of research on barrels just now since I'm thinking 16" now. I ran across a company that talks very highly of their own barrels. They seem to be fairly prices so wondering if anyone has had any experience with the equipment from. Integrity Arms. I was looking at 4150 moly with melonite 1:8 twist.

Here is what I have learned about barrels. I will try to keep it sort of simple. Keep in mind I am the FNG who was asking all these same questions not too long ago so UWone77 might tease me still... but I was in your shoes not long ago.

Lets start with basic forms of metal. All metals have characteristics such as hardness and grain and fine-ness or whatever other kind of things you can think up. Softer metals are easier to mill and easier milling means you can have a much nicer more uniform bore tip to tail of the barrel. Hence most of the match barrels are made from a softer form a metal which would mean stainless steel. (There are more than one kind of stainless steel).

Other types of barrels are made from harder substances but because of their inheirent nature they can withstand a whole lot more abuse (say full automatic fire). There are various extremes here that I am trying to point out. They can still be pretty accurate but they won't match a truly well bored barrel from people who take their time to do it. So if you have the same guy taking the same about of care using one metal vs the other one will give more accuracy than the other.

Conversely and crappily made bore with a nicer metal will perform poorly when compared to a nicely bored metal done with materials that are harder to work with.

If you are going with 416R or some similar stainless steel, because it is softer it can have more flex under fire. All of them have flex under fire it just depends on how much and the barrel profile.

What those treatments such as nitride etc etc do is penetrate the metal and basically make a hardened surface on the metal in order to make it last longer. Nitride on a different kind of metal might make that barrel last forever under full auto fire... whereas with a different underlying metal the benefits might be different in nature.

With my particular barrel I called up Rainier Arms and they told me they tried Melonite and Nitride both on the 416R and those barrels had a 15 to 20% LESS barrel life. It was more than bare 416R but not used to its maximum potential.

In essence those treatments made the surface of the barrel TOO hard and when the inherent flex occurs during firing it would lead over time to cracking and eventually failure. Think softer core with a harder crust being constantly whipped around under fire...

What Rainier has done is created a proprietary system that gets to that sweet spot where it's hard enough to make the barrel life last, but it also allows for flex without the cracking. It substantially increases the barrel life of a stainless barrel of this nature. They told me to expect 12,000 to 15,000 rounds down range with their barrels with that proprietary treatment. This is substantial considering the untreated 416R would be half or less than half of that under the same shooting conditions.

Again though if you are shooting full auto the barrel just won't last. There was recently a thread where a guy machine gunned a melonited stainless barrel and he got to about 900 rounds or so before the barrel ruptured. If you shoot like I do though... more plinking... you will never really get that heat build up which in turn makes the barrel last longer.

As for twist 1:8 is fine. I am getting extremely good accuracy with 69 grain rounds. As I said just today I shot 3 shots into a .7 inch group today at 100 yards. 1:7 would be fine too but it's not going to make that much difference especially at 200 yards. You can shoot heavier grains with more twist but I can attest to the ability to shoot 69's through a 1:8. I would be very confident going well into the 70's on grain weight with a 1:8.

I am sure I can go heavier even still. But price out any 77 grain ammo... it's not cheap. Accuracy is a function of gun harmonics (vibrations), the bore being concentric end to end, and ammo. It's all a big soup if you're looking for accuracy. You can have a match grade everything but if you shoot crap ammo your shots won't be that good no matter what you do. Again, think soup not component.

In the end the people who make the barrels are going to determine if the bore has any inconsistencies in it. Good manufacturing is just that. Good. Poor is just that. Poor. You can get better performance from lesser quality materials that are machined properly than from higher quality materials that are machined poorly.

My goal when I built was to have an accurate rifle and I am satisfied with what I got. I also got a great barrel life. For me 10,000 plus rounds would be at least 5 years life (or more) for me. I could have bought a barrel that would have lasted me until I die but the trade off would be that I might not get those sub MOA shots that I obsess over. It's not a rule its just a concept.

Ride4frnt
10 February 2015, 20:06
Oh no. You opened the flood gates. Now UW is gonna give you flak for that anderson lower! I just built three guns on anderson lowers and all there were a-ok. And to be honest I think they all had better finishes than my previous forged lowers. I will say though, their finish seems to be a lot different than some others, thus harder to match.

Also, if I may make a suggestion. If you're not dead set on melonite finish, check out the rainier select barrels. Very nice entry level barrels.

IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 20:12
Is the anderson lower that bad!? Do I need to start over? Haha.

Thank you alamo that is a lot to think about. I'm not super crazy accuracy mind set. Would it be nice? Of course. Am I capable? idk. I don't have a lot of experience with rifles. I had just read a lot of good things about the melonite. But that is also why I asked here bc experience beats paper in my book any day.

UWone77
10 February 2015, 20:13
Is the anderson lower that bad!? Do I need to start over? Haha.



Just don't be lame and SBR that lower. [BD][:D]

alamo5000
10 February 2015, 20:14
Also, if I may make a suggestion. If you're not dead set on melonite finish, check out the rainier select barrels. Very nice entry level barrels.

+1

For sure. What he said^^^^

They aren't melonite finish but they do have Rainier's own finish on them. They get an A+ with three gold stars from me.

IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 20:16
Ok what's SBR?
I will take a look at the rainers

Dstrbdmedic167
10 February 2015, 20:17
Is the anderson lower that bad!? Do I need to start over? Haha.

Thank you alamo that is a lot to think about. I'm not super crazy accuracy mind set. Would it be nice? Of course. Am I capable? idk. I don't have a lot of experience with rifles. I had just read a lot of good things about the melonite. But that is also why I asked here bc experience beats paper in my book any day.

Anderson is A-OK but he's still butthurt that he could have won a sweet SanTan Tactical lower but lives in a commie state and is a stones throw from 2 different non-commie states...

alamo5000
10 February 2015, 20:18
Thank you alamo that is a lot to think about. I'm not super crazy accuracy mind set. Would it be nice? Of course. Am I capable? idk. I don't have a lot of experience with rifles. I had just read a lot of good things about the melonite. But that is also why I asked here bc experience beats paper in my book any day.


Nothing is wrong with Melonite provided it's used as it's intended. I was just saying what little I have learned about it and the dynamics make sense (at least to me). I think some people just do it to do it and it might not be the best thing. But with a harder stiffer underlying metal it could be another miracle worker. I am not against it at all. Just saying don't just get it just because. Get it for the purpose you need it for.

And yes, most of the time the rifle is better than the shooter. It is certainly the case for me.

UWone77
10 February 2015, 20:19
Anderson is A-OK but he's still butthurt that he could have won a sweet SanTan Tactical lower but lives in a commie state and is a stones throw from 2 different non-commie states...

You know that reminds me.... I'm going to see if I can get Ride another lower here. I'll work on it.

IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 20:19
I was considering it bc of longevity and ease of cleaning from what I have read.

alamo5000
10 February 2015, 20:20
Ok what's SBR?

This is just screaming out 'pics'.

Go get him guys!!! LOL [BD]

Ride4frnt
10 February 2015, 20:21
Just don't be lame and SBR that lower. [BD][:D]


Hey, SBR is a SBR. The way I see it, I'm lucky to be able to have one at all, so it's a win in my book. Also something I'm not afraid to beat around. For a forged lower, I was very pleased, besides that god forsaken HUGE roll mark.

I've taken to calling my SBR "Mustang Sally"


Anderson is A-OK but he's still butthurt that he could have won a sweet SanTan Tactical lower but lives in a commie state and is a stones throw from 2 different non-commie states...

And you can kiss my butthurt butt.

IAHUNTER11
10 February 2015, 20:21
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/10/b201fd9ff63ee4045d5ef96be4479dd5.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/10/4217407a34d6b707dc0ce016be4eedf8.jpg

alamo5000
10 February 2015, 20:23
I was considering it bc of longevity and ease of cleaning from what I have read.

Considering what? Melonite?

Again longevity depends on the soup not just the component. You have to take into account the underlying metal used. I've never used the mountain series from Rainier but other people have told me they can take a beating.

As for cleaning the type of rifling matters too. As does what you use to clean it with. With some of the modern cleaning products out there you would be amazed at what they do.

GaSwamper
10 February 2015, 20:24
Melonite gives about 35-45fps gain. Confirmed with my Chrony against stainless.

Ride4frnt
10 February 2015, 20:24
SBR is short barreled rifle. Any ar with a overall barrel length under 16".

This is the one I built on my anderson lower...just to get UW fired up. (All his sbr's are admittedly superior, but I dig this little gun.)

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7432/15823772243_fca990a123_c.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7401/15821298474_d4a80b06bc_c.jpg

Dstrbdmedic167
10 February 2015, 20:26
You know that reminds me.... I'm going to see if I can get Ride another lower here. I'll work on it.

I hope you can.. In all Seriousness he was F$&@ked out of one...

alamo5000
10 February 2015, 20:37
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7401/15821298474_d4a80b06bc_c.jpg

That is just flat out sexy right there.

UWone77
10 February 2015, 20:45
I hope you can.. In all Seriousness he was F$&@ked out of one...

I agree. Maryland's timing did not do him any favors.

Dstrbdmedic167
10 February 2015, 20:46
I agree. Maryland's timing did not do him any favors.

That it didn't!!

Ride4frnt
10 February 2015, 20:46
I agree. Maryland's timing did not do him any favors.

Ha! Maryland still ain't doing me any favors. A few more bumps in the road and I'm out. Found a perfect house in PA yesterday, but it'll be a few months at the least til we can purchase anything.

Txfilmmaker
10 February 2015, 20:50
Is the anderson lower that bad!? Do I need to start over? Haha.

Thank you alamo that is a lot to think about. I'm not super crazy accuracy mind set. Would it be nice? Of course. Am I capable? idk. I don't have a lot of experience with rifles. I had just read a lot of good things about the melonite. But that is also why I asked here bc experience beats paper in my book any day.

Welcome IAHUNTER. As you can see, you've come to the right place. I am in the process of putting together an AR, myself. A lot of the same people gave me great advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BoilerUp
10 February 2015, 20:56
IAHunter,
Welcome to Weapon Evolution forum.

I suspect your Anderson lower receiver is treated with their RF85 "No Lube" finish. Those look a bit different (slightly blacker and more of a satin sheen, if I recall correctly) than a standard anodozid finish. For a match, you could just pick up an RF85 Anderson upper for $65 or less (http://www.redbarnarmory.com/product-p/amara3upper.htm ). It really won't matter, but personally I like my uppers/lowers to be from the same manufacturer. Anderson does sell anodized receivers, too, so be aware of that if you order one.

As others have said, a modern 16" barrel should serve you well, although for a coyote gun an 18" barrel won't really hurt. Mid-length gas seems to be the way to go for 16" barrels. I am in the nitride treatment camp, personally, as I believe it better reflects the state of the art for modern barrels, but a lot of people remain unconvinced of the merits of nitriding over chrome lining. There was some discussion on that very topic on this forum a few weeks ago.

Here is a barrel that you might want to consider: https://danieldefense.com/cold-hammer-forged-barrels/18-inch-chf-barrels/18-5-56mm-s2w-mid-length-chf-barrel-w-lpgb.html

The barrel in the link above comes with the gas block pinned to the barrel. That is the one thing in assembling an AR that a garage builder likely can't do on his own, so I suggest you order a barrel with the block installed or find a local smith that can do it for you. I have ordered a barrel from Ballistic Advantage before and they will pin a gas block for an additional $10 (plus the cost of the gas block, of course). BA has very reasonable prices, a good reputation, and good customer service, too. That said, my next build will have a clamp-on gas block, but I think most people would say that pinning the gas block is better.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Ride4frnt
10 February 2015, 21:57
You know that reminds me.... I'm going to see if I can get Ride another lower here. I'll work on it.

I would be eternally grateful. While it would be awesome, I accepted my upper and RAC as an awesome substitute for my misfortune.

FortTom
10 February 2015, 22:39
Is the anderson lower that bad!? Do I need to start over? Haha.

Thank you alamo that is a lot to think about. I'm not super crazy accuracy mind set. Would it be nice? Of course. Am I capable? idk. I don't have a lot of experience with rifles. I had just read a lot of good things about the melonite. But that is also why I asked here bc experience beats paper in my book any day.

I live about 15 miles from Hebron, where the Anderson Arms are manufactured. Needless to say, their lowers are pretty plentiful around here. My experience with them is that fitment and tolerances are spot on, as good as any other lower I've used. I think their "bad" rap is that they are sold at rock bottom prices and some folks assume that low price equates to poor quality. Also, some folks want to look cool with the most expensive parts they can find, assuming that the most expensive parts equate to best quality. It's not "cool" to have a $49 lower, when you can buy a $300 dollar lower.

I have to admit I used to be pretty snobby about the parts I used, adorning my rifles with expensive baubles, until reality hit me. Now I use what works best for me, without regard for price, sometimes they're on the high end of the price range, and sometimes on the lower end. In other words, I take a pass on the $$60 mag release in favor of a $25 mag release to make my rifles cool and "photogenic".

So, to answer your question, why not check the tolerances and fitment of your lower, before you go pay twice as much if not 5X as much for another lower.

UWone77
11 February 2015, 22:06
Ha! Maryland still ain't doing me any favors. A few more bumps in the road and I'm out. Found a perfect house in PA yesterday, but it'll be a few months at the least til we can purchase anything.

What's holding it up?


I would be eternally grateful. While it would be awesome, I accepted my upper and RAC as an awesome substitute for my misfortune.

Maybe you'll get a nice housewarming gift by the time that house purchase is made. [:D]

Ride4frnt
11 February 2015, 22:25
What's holding it up?



Maybe you'll get a nice housewarming gift by the time that house purchase is made. [:D]

Long story. My woman rented a townhouse when she was 19. The roommate stuck her with the lease. Owes $4200. That'll be paid this month, then we are on the prowl.

Edit: that's only if I'm being honest.

IAHUNTER11
12 February 2015, 05:28
I am trying to decide between 10 or 12 inch foe hand quad rail. Anyone have input or pics with 16 in barrel? I Googled it and all kinds of crazy pics popped up. Was trying to sort through a few but was a pain.

Dstrbdmedic167
12 February 2015, 05:36
I am trying to decide between 10 or 12 inch foe hand quad rail. Anyone have input or pics with 16 in barrel? I Googled it and all kinds of crazy pics popped up. Was trying to sort through a few but was a pain.

My recommendation is the 12" with a 16" barrel. Also Depends on your barrel gas setup. A carbine length will be fine if you go a 10". A mid length with a 10" may partially expose the gas block depending on the rail. I can't remember off the top of my head but it's close.

Txfilmmaker
12 February 2015, 05:54
My recommendation is the 12" with a 16" barrel. Also Depends on your barrel gas setup. A carbine length will be fine if you go a 10". A mid length with a 10" may partially expose the gas block depending on the rail. I can't remember off the top of my head but it's close.

Is there ever a reason to go with a carbine gas system on a 16" barrel? It seems like most go mid. Just wondering...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dstrbdmedic167
12 February 2015, 06:03
Is there ever a reason to go with a carbine gas system on a 16" barrel? It seems like most go mid. Just wondering...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Depends on the manufacturers preference. A carbine gas system will have more gas BC it has a shorter length of travel to the Bcg and may or may not cause overpressure issues. I personally like mid length gas systems. As a matter a fact I think everything but my 308 is a midlength. The 308 is a 20" barrel and is rifle length

Txfilmmaker
12 February 2015, 08:17
Makes sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CK 187
12 February 2015, 08:25
Oh no. You opened the flood gates. Now UW is gonna give you flak for that anderson lower!


Is the anderson lower that bad!? Do I need to start over?


Just don't be lame and SBR that lower. [BD][:D]


http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/sinetimore/18803464/478962/478962_original.jpg

LOL

CK 187
12 February 2015, 08:28
My recommendation is the 12" with a 16" barrel.

+1 for the 12" rail on the 16" setup. Just go mid length and be done with it

IAHUNTER11
12 February 2015, 09:00
That's the same I was thinking. Thanks

Txfilmmaker
12 February 2015, 12:39
I have a 12"+ rail and I'm going to buy a 16" middy as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CK 187
12 February 2015, 13:00
I have a 12"+ rail and I'm going to buy a 16" middy as well.



All the cool kids are doing it

UWone77
12 February 2015, 13:13
Is there ever a reason to go with a carbine gas system on a 16" barrel? It seems like most go mid. Just wondering...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think carbine gas systems have had an unfair rep the last few years. There is nothing wrong with them. The majority of shooters don't shoot enough to see a real difference on how hard the carbine gas system maybe on their guns vs a middy.

This whole middy vs carbine gas has been overblown, with perceived "softer" shooting of the mid. Personally, I don't feel much of a difference. Your experiences may vary.

Dstrbdmedic167
12 February 2015, 13:22
I think carbine gas systems have had an unfair rep the last few years. There is nothing wrong with them. The majority of shooters don't shoot enough to see a real difference on how hard the carbine gas system maybe on their guns vs a middy.

This whole middy vs carbine gas has been overblown, with perceived "softer" shooting of the mid. Personally, I don't feel much of a difference. Your experiences may vary.

I probably think about things a bit differently than most [bash] but I think it terms of pressure and mechanics. Those 2 inches probably won't make that much difference but it may be just enough to keep the gas out of my face, especially if I shoot suppressed. I also think about the length of tune like a firehouse. The longer hose will have less pressure at bc there is more volume within the tube itself with the carbine vs mid, this decreasing overall pressure.

Again just how my crazy brain thinks and works. Just my personal preference and opinion. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just makes it mine. I will say the carbine I did have at one time. I didn't notice it shoot any different in terms of recoil. An AR is a AR....

UWone77
12 February 2015, 13:29
I probably think about things a bit differently than most [bash] but I think it terms of pressure and mechanics. Those 2 inches probably won't make that much difference but it may be just enough to keep the gas out of my face, especially if I shoot suppressed. I also think about the length of tune like a firehouse. The longer hose will have less pressure at bc there is more volume within the tube itself with the carbine vs mid, this decreasing overall pressure.

Again just how my crazy brain thinks and works. Just my personal preference and opinion. Doesn't make it right or wrong, just makes it mine. I will say the carbine I did have at one time. I didn't notice it shoot any different in terms of recoil. An AR is a AR....

Well, when you shoot suppressed...

Let me know when you design a middy 10.5 [BD]

I'll be all over it.

MonkeyBomb
12 February 2015, 13:58
I shot my Carbine and My Mid length rifles on the same day. Unfortunately its not a straight comparison because the Mid also has a BCM comp 0 on it. Other than that they are close enough. Prone and kneeling there was no noticeable difference. Moving and shooting the middy was far more controllable and stayed on target much better.

Again its not a fair comparison because of the comp and the forearm length. If they both had the same flash suppressor and same length forearm it may have been no noticeable difference. As they sit the middy is definitely my go to rifle.

GaSwamper
12 February 2015, 15:48
For 5.56 I think it's splitting hairs really especially with the outstanding comps and brakes around. 6.8 and up there is a difference, 6.8 really needs mid and up to function at it's best.
IAHUNTER, have you considered stepping over to the AR platform for your medium game hunting as well? I really like the way an AR handles when stalking whitetails and hogs.

IAHUNTER11
12 February 2015, 15:50
I would love to if I could. But we are not allowed to hunt deer with rifles. I would like to some day build one to hog hunt with. I have never done that and would like to some day.

GaSwamper
12 February 2015, 15:52
I would love to if I could. But we are not allowed to hunt deer with rifles. I would like to some day build one to hog hunt with. I have never done that and would like to some day.

Illinois? :(

IAHUNTER11
12 February 2015, 15:55
Iowa

IAHUNTER11
12 February 2015, 15:56
What's a good hog caliber in ar platform?

Txfilmmaker
12 February 2015, 15:57
I think carbine gas systems have had an unfair rep the last few years. There is nothing wrong with them. The majority of shooters don't shoot enough to see a real difference on how hard the carbine gas system maybe on their guns vs a middy.

This whole middy vs carbine gas has been overblown, with perceived "softer" shooting of the mid. Personally, I don't feel much of a difference. Your experiences may vary.

The great thing about WEVO is Beginners, like me, can get "real" help without the hype from people we respect. Thanks UWone77 and thanks, all of you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GaSwamper
12 February 2015, 16:06
What's a good hog caliber in ar platform?

6.8 spcII, .277 Wolverine, 300 BLK ( if you stay sonic) and a slew of wildcats.

IAHUNTER11
12 February 2015, 16:21
Originally Posted by UWone77 (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?p=92795)<br />
I think carbine gas systems have had an unfair rep the last few years. There is nothing wrong with them. The majority of shooters don't shoot enough to see a real difference on how hard the carbine gas system maybe on their guns vs a middy.<br />
<br />
This whole middy vs carbine gas has been overblown, with perceived &quot;softer&quot; shooting of the mid. Personally, I don't feel much of a difference. Your experiences may vary.<br />
<br />
The great thing about WEVO is Beginners, like me, can get &quot;real&quot; help without the hype from people we respect. Thanks UWone77 and thanks, all of you.<br />
<br />
<br />
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk<br/>

I have to agree! The short time I've been here, I have gotten great advice and help! Thank you everyone!

alamo5000
12 February 2015, 16:44
But we are not allowed to hunt deer with rifles. I would like to some day build one to hog hunt with. I have never done that and would like to some day.

What are you supposed to hunt deer with then? Just curious is all.

As for hogs come on down to Texas. We have enough to go around and you don't even need a permit and there is no 'season'.

alamo5000
12 February 2015, 16:51
What's a good hog caliber in ar platform?

The thing about hogs is it's all about shot placement not just caliber. The anatomy of a hog is something people don't take into account. The kill spot is actually rather small. Accurate shots are more important than anything if you ask me.

I have seen guys blow a hog away with a .308 and yeah he's dead for sure but I've hunted them with something as small as a 9mm pistol. It all depends on what you want to do and how you are hunting them.

IAHUNTER11
12 February 2015, 16:52
Don't make that offer bc i will take you up on that! Haha

We hunt them with archery equipment and shotguns with deer slugs.

alamo5000
12 February 2015, 16:52
The great thing about WEVO is Beginners, like me, can get "real" help without the hype from people we respect. Thanks UWone77 and thanks, all of you.

+1 on the comment. I love this place.

alamo5000
12 February 2015, 16:59
Don't make that offer bc i will take you up on that! Haha

We hunt them with archery equipment and shotguns with deer slugs.


The good thing about hogs is you can experiment on them. A friend of mine has shot them with a .50 and they basically blow up on impact. A .300 Win Mag does a lot of damage too. .308 can flip em end over end.

But the way I like to go for them is to stalk them. It makes it a lot more fun and there is a variety of skills involved.

Some of the guys around here are shooting them from helicopters. Pretty much every form and format to hunt a hog is possible.

GOST
12 February 2015, 17:38
The great thing about WEVO is Beginners, like me, can get "real" help without the hype from people we respect. Thanks UWone77 and thanks, all of you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


+1 on the comment. I love this place.
Just think soon you guys will be the WEVO welcoming committee.

alamo5000
12 February 2015, 17:42
Just think soon you guys will be the WEVO welcoming committee.

If the shoe fits... LOL

Txfilmmaker
12 February 2015, 18:46
Just think soon you guys will be the WEVO welcoming committee.

Ha ha - Sounds good. As long as you don't mind Alamo and I welcoming people with Texas accents. We promise to use "howdy" with judicious restraint. ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IAHUNTER11
12 February 2015, 19:01
I got made fun of today bc a package came today and this is all it was. Hey what can ya do. Bahahahaha http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/12/124c2f7693a8d186b493b8f2704e4e49.jpg

Dstrbdmedic167
12 February 2015, 19:06
Any day that the mailman brings me a goodie is a good day!! He brought me a $10 adapter for my 15-22 so I could properly mount my suppressor without worrying about damaging the threads on either!

IAHUNTER11
17 February 2015, 14:57
Finally back up! I bought a barrel this weekend and needed you guys. I went ahead and made the decision on my own and hope it's a good barrel. I got 16" adams arms voodoo government mid length has

Dstrbdmedic167
17 February 2015, 15:05
Finally back up! I bought a barrel this weekend and needed you guys. I went ahead and made the decision on my own and hope it's a good barrel. I got 16" adams arms voodoo government mid length has

I just purchased this barrel from UW! Voodoo is a good barrel you done good!

IAHUNTER11
17 February 2015, 15:08
Good to hear. It was on sale. Anyone used the utg super slim forend? Parts are slowly showing up at the door. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/17/e32124d21bd20a2b41faf742f8311ad5.jpg

Dstrbdmedic167
17 February 2015, 15:13
Good to hear. It was on sale. Anyone used the utg super slim forend? Parts are slowly showing up at the door.

What length did you go with? And UTG is good to go...

IAHUNTER11
17 February 2015, 15:23
16" barrel. Gonna go with the 13" forend

Dstrbdmedic167
17 February 2015, 15:29
16" barrel. Gonna go with the 13" forend

That'll be a good setup. Post pics when it's all together!!

toolboxluis00200
17 February 2015, 15:49
looks nice so far

CK 187
18 February 2015, 07:56
I got made fun of today bc a package came today and this is all it was. Hey what can ya do. Bahahahaha http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/12/124c2f7693a8d186b493b8f2704e4e49.jpg

Any day gun parts come in the mail is a good day

I was like a little kid at christmas the other week waiting for my upper to arrive. Staring out the window waiting for UPS and then I yank the door open and run to meet him at the curb when I see that big beautiful brown truck coming.....


Good to hear. It was on sale. Anyone used the utg super slim forend?

I've been looking at those for my truck gun as well. Good price point


16" barrel. Gonna go with the 13" forend

Sounds like one hell of a plan

IAHUNTER11
19 February 2015, 19:03
I managed to come up with another question. I should have all my parts for assembly next week. What head space Guages do I need to get? It will be chamber 5.56/.223 rem.

BoilerUp
19 February 2015, 20:31
I managed to come up with another question. I should have all my parts for assembly next week. What head space Guages do I need to get? It will be chamber 5.56/.223 rem.

A live round. If it goes "boom" when you fire, you're GTG. If not, then there are probably 10 other things to check before worrying about head space. This is assuming you bought a bolt and barrel from reputable manufacturers.

Farva
19 February 2015, 21:15
I understand being on a budget but just remember you get what you pay for! I'd suggest if you were to spend a little more money on one part or the other put some extra cash into your 1.) barrell 2.) BCG and maybe 3.) trigger. Thats just my 02 cents on the subject. Thats what I learned from building mine. Ive built four and have five more lowers waiting! Ill agree you cant go wrong with Rainier! Also I love BCM and Noveske, those are just a few of my go to companies.

IAHUNTER11
21 February 2015, 11:32
Barrel came today!!!!

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/21/286d3d2cb63eaa02d99edb8153ef9159.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/21/747f50a16021b4bcb746615d7bfd4918.jpg

Txfilmmaker
21 February 2015, 15:23
Barrel came today!!!!

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/21/286d3d2cb63eaa02d99edb8153ef9159.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/21/747f50a16021b4bcb746615d7bfd4918.jpg

Pretty exciting! I can't wait to get mine, so I know how you feel. :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DutyUse
21 February 2015, 18:06
Nice selection Tx. I haven't got to run a voodoo yet but it's on my shortlist


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Txfilmmaker
21 February 2015, 21:56
Nice selection Tx. I haven't got to run a voodoo yet but it's on my shortlist


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks, but that's IAHUNTER's barrel. The things I'm trying to sell haven't sold yet. When they do I'll buy something. I'm interested in how he likes his VooDoo barrel. I will probably go CHF if I can afford it. The Voodoo looks good. Hope he likes it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UWone77
21 February 2015, 22:11
Thanks, but that's IAHUNTER's barrel. The things I'm trying to sell haven't sold yet. When they do I'll buy something. I'm interested in how he likes his VooDoo barrel. I will probably go CHF if I can afford it. The Voodoo looks good. Hope he likes it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nothing is moving on the secondary market or any market lately, unless it's heavily discounted, even if new. Good luck getting rid of those items!

DutyUse
21 February 2015, 22:47
Shew I wish I could find a stripped noveske gen 3 upper on any market, new or used. Been like pulling teeth trying to locate one

Txfilmmaker
22 February 2015, 06:47
Nothing is moving on the secondary market or any market lately, unless it's heavily discounted, even if new. Good luck getting rid of those items!

I don't remember who told me, but they said, "There are no such things as spare parts. Just the beginnings of a new rifle. " :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IAHUNTER11
26 February 2015, 16:14
Just got it all together! Waiting on sights and 1-4x scope to show up.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/26/4a8fcdfac44feb29a3b57e56e305b9a7.jpg

Txfilmmaker
26 February 2015, 16:22
Just got it all together! Waiting on sights and 1-4x scope to show up.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/26/4a8fcdfac44feb29a3b57e56e305b9a7.jpg

Congrats. It looks great!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

alamo5000
26 February 2015, 16:47
Just got it all together! Waiting on sights and 1-4x scope to show up.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/26/4a8fcdfac44feb29a3b57e56e305b9a7.jpg

Looking good!

What sights and what optic are you going to be using?

IAHUNTER11
26 February 2015, 16:50
Thanks!! I got some magpul flip up sights and bushnell 1-4x 24 ar 223 scope

alamo5000
26 February 2015, 17:02
Thanks!! I got some magpul flip up sights and bushnell 1-4x 24 ar 223 scope

I have been using the Bushnell. I sold my copy of it last night actually and I turned around and bought a different optic.

You won't be able to co witness with the Bushnell. I've tried. Won't work.

toolboxluis00200
26 February 2015, 17:04
Just got it all together! Waiting on sights and 1-4x scope to show up.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/26/4a8fcdfac44feb29a3b57e56e305b9a7.jpg

looks nice well done

IAHUNTER11
26 February 2015, 17:06
What do you mean co witness?

alamo5000
26 February 2015, 17:28
What do you mean co witness?

You can't use the irons (or flip ups) and the scope on the same rifle at the same time.

Co-witness means you flip up your irons and look through the scope glass but you can still see your irons. With some optics you can do this.

In your case you are going to have to choose which ones to mount. The iron sights or the optic but you can't put both on the same rifle.

http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af303/James7800/cowit1-1.jpg

IAHUNTER11
26 February 2015, 17:34
Since they fold down and scope will be on quick release base. I should still be able to have both on correct? I got the flip up in case in out hunting and break scope or something crazy. Then I have a back up plan.

IAHUNTER11
26 February 2015, 17:36
That was the plan anyway. I never intended to use them together. Other than that issue how did you like that scope?

alamo5000
26 February 2015, 17:51
Since they fold down and scope will be on quick release base. I should still be able to have both on correct? I got the flip up in case in out hunting and break scope or something crazy. Then I have a back up plan.

You could mount your front post if you want. The problem is you can't put the rear sight on because you won't have enough rail space. The optic will need to be back to where it's near even with the charging handle. Not enough space that far back for the rear sight to be mounted. The only way to really run irons too is to get a specialized mount and run 45 degree irons.

The optic itself is not bad at all. I actually see a lot of virtue in it. I am a pretty big fan of 1-4x optics for general AR use.

For what you pay you definitely get your money's worth with the Bushnell. I would give it an 'excellent value' rating. I should write a review on it. :)

IAHUNTER11
26 February 2015, 17:56
Ahhhhhh yea I didn't think of that.

Txfilmmaker
27 February 2015, 06:46
Thanks!! I got some magpul flip up sights and bushnell 1-4x 24 ar 223 scope

Which reticle? Is this the throw down version?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IAHUNTER11
27 February 2015, 06:48
I did not get the throw down. I thought about it but decided against it. When red dot style scopes have a big circle illumated around a small circle I seem to struggle seeing the small one so I didn't want to take any chance on it with this one. So I got the normal bdc retical

Txfilmmaker
27 February 2015, 08:17
I did not get the throw down. I thought about it but decided against it. When red dot style scopes have a big circle illumated around a small circle I seem to struggle seeing the small one so I didn't want to take any chance on it with this one. So I got the normal bdc retical

Okay.. Sounds like it's a good idea to look through scopes, in person, before purchasing. I'll have to do that when I get to that point. I'm sure you'll be happy with the scope you chose.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CK 187
27 February 2015, 08:53
I don't remember who told me, but they said, "There are no such things as spare parts. Just the beginnings of a new rifle. " :-)


That's my philosophy


Just got it all together! Waiting on sights and 1-4x scope to show up.

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/26/4a8fcdfac44feb29a3b57e56e305b9a7.jpg


Looks great!!!