Proposed M855 Ban

[Canexpat]

Did a search and didn't find anything. Mods please delete if I'm out of line.

Trop Elite Equipment has provided an easy way make your voice heard & get a chance at some ammo.

http://wewillnotbackdown.com/?utm_source=Trop+Gun+Shop+Emails&utm_campaign=b6b3d89c17-We+Will+Not+Back+Down+-+Act+Now+-+2-20-15&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_be536c0964-b6b3d89c17-%5BLIST_EMAIL_ID%5D&ct=t%28We+Will+Not+Back+Down+-+Act+Now+-+2-20-15%29&mc_cid=b6b3d89c17&mc_eid=%5BUNIQID%5D

[velocity2006]

I have seen it floating around FB quite a bit. Pretty ridiculous IMO, especially considering how mediocre M855 is.

[FortTom]

Other than "plinking" ammo, it's no big deal. It is NOT armor piercing, nor has it ever been. Guy's (Rangers) who were in Samolia said the stuff, due to lack of expansion, actually over penetrated the skinny's, poking neat little holes in them, and, barring hitting a vital organ, or hitting the spine etc., many said they saw skinny's with 3 or 4 holes in them, and still had no problem fighting. I think the myth has made the rounds of the forums so much, that some folks think it'll shoot holes through engine blocks and penetrate concrete walls. It's my understanding that it's origional purpose was to penetrate "body armor" equivalent to an old flak vest, or heavy clothing. I've got about 3 or 4 420 round boxes of the stuff. Reading the ATF's definition of "armor piercing" and what "green tip" really is, it doesn't meet ATF's definition of "armor piercing".

This whole mess in my opinion, has a great deal of fault with the shooting community. It's another case of poking the bear one too many times. Several years ago during the "assault rifle" ban, gun writers in magazines absolutely dumped on any "anti" for using the term "assault rifle", saying it was an obscure term used by the military only. There were no "assault weapons" in the civilian world. Now every item in a magazine is an "assault rifle", scope, knife, ballpoint pen, assault boots, assault ice cream, anything they can attach the term "assault" to make it sound more bad assed.

Some unscrupulous ammo sellers advertise M855 as being able to do everything from stop tornadoes to locomotives. And a lot of shooters perpetuated that myth in gun forums. I see it in some forums somewhat often.

Except for some Swedish M855 I got a good deal on it, most of it doesn't shoot worth a crap, in my rifles anyway. If you want to punch a hole in an oncoming vehicle full of Taliban, use an AR 10 up to a 50 BMG.

If the ATF doesn't back down on this, it's no big loss, in my opinion. Just hype on both parties behalf.

I can always wait until Cheap Bastards Eat Dirt's website advertises it for 1K a box, then sell mine for $800 [:D]

Just my humble opinion. Although I would like some of the tungsten 7.62 stuff....[:)]

[Farva]

I understand why you say "its no big deal" because the ammo is trash pretty much. Also they say that they are banning it simply because it will pierce soft body armor typically worn by LEO's, which any of us know any rifle round will go through soft armor so that reasoning is null and void in my opinion. Also to me, even though the ammo isnt the greatest thing in the world, its simply the principle. If they take this ammo (insert name here) who is to say that if We the People dont say anything and let it happen then next they will try and ban this ammo (insert name here). So even though its not the best ammo im against banning it.

[Canexpat]

Exactly Farva, this is a big deal; no disrespect FortTom, I didn't articulate the point. The argument, for me is the effort to erode or further compel another restriction on gun rights. Here in Oregon there is a terrific gun rights group called Oregon Firearms Federation. They are "no compromise", OFF aggressively fights any action by the Oregon legislature (and nationally) to diminish gun rights; in some small way I apply this premise to the proposed action by the BAFTE.

[Stone]

Agreed, this is a big deal. We cannot even give them an inch on this one. This is how things go south real fast if people don't stand up and say "NO". Folks, we need to contact our legislatures on this, if we stand down here the proposed bans will keep coming until they dictate completely what ammo can and cant be used. What's next,m193,TSX,bonded ammo? This is a litmus test from the top down. Call your Senators and Congressman and leave a comment on the batfe site.

http://nagr.org/2015/ObamaBATFAmmoBan.aspx?pid=1b

[Tyrannosaur]

I've signed petitions and contacted my representatives (unfortunately one is that moron Schumer the other his lapdog Gillibrand).
If they can ban this it will open them up to ban more and more. 2015 is the year we need to wake up and start taking back what we let get stripped slowly and methodically from us for so long

[alamo5000]

I agree that it matters.

[GOST]

Like others have said M855 is a mediocre round and most rifle rounds will pierce soft armor. Just another case of not being able to enforce the laws they already have so go after law abiding citizens. Then all the politicians say we've made the world a better place. They should release the number of people killed in the US by M855 over the last decade, more people probably died from being constipated.

Now the liberals will get on YouTube to watch the M855 versus videos. When they see those they'll want to try to ban everything.

I honestly think that some liberal groups have a stock pile of M855 they need getting rid of. Every time a ban is proposed or a liberal is elected as president ammo prices go through the roof. I saw Bushmasters sold for $2500 during the last panic.

[GOST]

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150218/your-action-urgently-needed-to-prevent-batfe-from-banning-common-rifle-ammunition

[Thompson]

I can personally vouch for the guys at Trop, as they are my local gun shop (although, at the rate of which they are growing and expanding, I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually turn into the next Rainier Arms, PSA, etc). Good bunch of guys that has been in business is '61. Great to the point that they also don't price gouge, like Cheap Bastards Eat Dirt as FT puts it.

To the point of the OP. I don't think anyone precisely articulated this - but a ban on M855 can be devastating. So I know we all can agree on the fact that M855 isn't as ballistically sound (as, say M193). But here's the problem, M193 can punch through at least Level 2 body armor (and possibly Level 3; it definitely will if you load the round hot enough from what I understand). And lets not forget, the whole guise of this proposed ban is to protect our LEO's from such a "deadly" round, hence the call to ban M855.

Okay, so lets say the ATF does ban M855. What comes next? I'll tell you what, M193 looks like a very suspecting round to go for next. It (technically) can be fired from a "pistol" (read: AR pistol), and it can penetrate body armor ...

So then what? They ban M193. And then what? What's going to be left?

See how this can be a big deal? (not specifically directed towards you FT, directed toward the mass ~ and the lurkers for that matter)

[Thompson]

On the topic of M855, one of my friends drafted up a concise letter for the ATF. I figured I'd share it with everyone here in case you are having trouble of what to write to the ATF or if you don't want to use the link provided for in the OP.

Their email address: APAComments AT atf DOT gov

Feel free to copy/edit to your heart's content.

Please note the bolded, red text!! I added that in case anyone wanted to throw that in their letter ... so if you aren't either of the two, you might want to delete that part.

________

To Whom It May Concern:

I am writing in response to the proposed ban of the common M855/SS109 5.56MM cartridge.
Like many others, I am concerned that such a ban is being proposed because the M855 cartridge has been
used by sports and competition shooters for many years without issue. This ammunition is no more lethal
than standard lead core 5.56MM ball ammunition. As a [Military Service Member/Law Enforcement
Officer] and law-abiding citizen, I find it disturbing that such an extremely common, cost efficient
cartridge is being unilaterally banned through bureaucratic action. The M855 is not designed as an “armor
piercing” round but rather as a standard, steel tipped ball cartridge and lacks the tungsten core that M955,
an actual armor piercing cartridge, possesses. Also, the M855 was never designed or intended to be fired
from a handgun but was rather designed to be fired from a M-16 rifle with a 20 inch barrel. I am equally
concerned that this proposed ban has nothing to do with the protection of law enforcement and is serving
to simply eliminate a cost effective ammunition source used for enjoying the AR-15 rifle platform among
law-abiding, tax paying American sportsmen and women. I must inform you that due to my concerns, I
will be contacting my elected representatives as well.

Very Respectfully,

[FortTom]

If each of you who "politely" pointed out that "it is a big deal" please re-read the first sentence of the paragraph. I was referring to the ammo, it's ineffectiveness and the fact that it was not (emphasis) armor piercing.
So before you berate me and educate me about how the ATF will gobble more and more of our rights, I think you should concentrate more on what you're reading than how you respond to it. NOWHERE in my post, did I say banning anything is not important to the shooting community. I just said it was shitty ammo, and the part of the shooting community who help perpetrate myths about this "train stopping ammo" were partly to blame for this continued legislation to begin with.

I don't need to be lectured on what organization is fighting for my rights. I have been contributing to the NRA and others for about as long as reached the age of 20 or so, and am currently a life member of the NRA, and donate to others as well.

I've been through many bans, as well as threatened bans. I've been fighting for gun rights while many on this forum were still shitting green in their diapers.

So, please, before your next orgy styled pile on of lecturing me on the dangers of confiscation and bans, please take the time to actually read the material that you intend to pontificate about.

[alamo5000]

If each of you who "politely" pointed out that "it is a big deal" please re-read the first sentence of the paragraph. I was referring to the ammo, it's ineffectiveness and the fact that it was not (emphasis) armor piercing.
So before you berate me and educate me about how the ATF will gobble more and more of our rights, I think you should concentrate more on what you're reading than how you respond to it. NOWHERE in my post, did I say banning anything is not important to the shooting community. I just said it was shitty ammo, and the part of the shooting community who help perpetrate myths about this "train stopping ammo" were partly to blame for this continued legislation to begin with.

I don't need to be lectured on what organization is fighting for my rights. I have been contributing to the NRA and others for about as long as reached the age of 20 or so, and am currently a life member of the NRA, and donate to others as well.

I've been through many bans, as well as threatened bans. I've been fighting for gun rights while many on this forum were still shitting green in their diapers.

So, please, before your next orgy styled pile on of lecturing me on the dangers of confiscation and bans, please take the time to actually read the material that you intend to pontificate about.

The snark is high with this one [:D]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Spinal_Tap_-_Up_to_Eleven.jpg

[FortTom]

Just as it was meant to be.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Perception on the Internet is always a double edged sword....

[GOST]

If each of you who "politely" pointed out that "it is a big deal" please re-read the first sentence of the paragraph. I was referring to the ammo, it's ineffectiveness and the fact that it was not (emphasis) armor piercing.
So before you berate me and educate me about how the ATF will gobble more and more of our rights, I think you should concentrate more on what you're reading than how you respond to it. NOWHERE in my post, did I say banning anything is not important to the shooting community. I just said it was shitty ammo, and the part of the shooting community who help perpetrate myths about this "train stopping ammo" were partly to blame for this continued legislation to begin with.

I don't need to be lectured on what organization is fighting for my rights. I have been contributing to the NRA and others for about as long as reached the age of 20 or so, and am currently a life member of the NRA, and donate to others as well.

I've been through many bans, as well as threatened bans. I've been fighting for gun rights while many on this forum were still shitting green in their diapers.

So, please, before your next orgy styled pile on of lecturing me on the dangers of confiscation and bans, please take the time to actually read the material that you intend to pontificate about.

Only a couple of post were referred to yours FT, don't know if I'd consider it a pile on. I don't think anyone was trying to come off as lecturing.

[RiverRat]

No matter what your experience with and/or use for M855 or how much you want to bait FT, it looks like the the proposed ban has created yet another hysterical, caliber-wide feeding frenzy on ammo. I've seen several retailers go from "I have to discount this stuff" to "there is nothing left to sell at original pricing" in just a week or two.

Coupled with the West Coast dockworkers' situation slowing importation, reasonably-priced .223/5.56 ammo supply has taken several several steps backwards in availability. Its all very unfortunate for those of us who might actually shoot from time to time.

[Farva]

I certainly didn't mean to come off as berating, I just simply misread the direction of the post was all. 🙊

[nCarnage]

I emailed them.

[FortTom]

I certainly didn't mean to come off as berating, I just simply misread the direction of the post was all. 🙊
I'll buy that, and share responsibility. Maybe I didn't articulate myself too well.

FT

[Farva]

I'll buy that, and share responsibility. Maybe I didn't articulate myself too well.

FT

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/23/2fcf087c4d5901f7120e99e8c6288527.jpg

[SINNER]

No matter what your experience with and/or use for M855 or how much you want to bait FT, it looks like the the proposed ban has created yet another hysterical, caliber-wide feeding frenzy on ammo. I've seen several retailers go from "I have to discount this stuff" to "there is nothing left to sell at original pricing" in just a week or two.

Coupled with the West Coast dockworkers' situation slowing importation, reasonably-priced .223/5.56 ammo supply has taken several several steps backwards in availability. Its all very unfortunate for those of us who might actually shoot from time to time.

A couple of local places said they sold more this past week than they had in the past few months. When it gets real cold here the cheap stuff just sits normally.

[GOST]

I'll buy that, and share responsibility. Maybe I didn't articulate myself too well.

FT

I have this problem, my wife says I'm socially retarded.

[FortTom]

I have this problem, my wife says I'm socially retarded.
GOST, that's just bullshit, and I wouldn't take it if I were you. You are not "socially" anything at all......and I just don't believe that you're totally retarded.[:)]

[GOST]

She tells me that too.

[FortTom]

She tells me that too. In that case, if I were you, I'd just start drinking heavily.....[:)]

[GOST]

I do after the kids go to bed... That's when the pickle threads start.

[Canexpat]

Well I'm not sure what to say, but I'm gonna try. I was just going to stay out, but I can't, OP and all, besides I'm irritated now, this wasn't about the specific ammo...we're on the same side. I'm not trying to stir shit...

I'll restate the intent of my OP: "no disrespect FortTom, I didn't articulate the point. The argument, for me is the effort to erode or further compel another restriction on gun rights. ... in some small way I apply this premise to the proposed action by the BAFTE." Go up to catch the full comment.

I got your points FortTom, my subsequent commentary was intended to bolster the point I should have made in the OP, I made an assumption: the issue is more than the ammo, it is as I have quoted above.

Your commentary in your initial post indicated, to me you missed MY implied point. I was not calling you out or piling on with my subsequent commentary and I don't think anybody was, it was merely an attempt to reinforce the intent of my OP.

[RobSWVA]

other than the obvious point of stopping them from trampling all over our rights under the 2nd, yes it may be 'meh' ammo, but when us less wealthy guys want to burn through mags, its a good choice. it may not be a 'quality' load, but it fills the purpose of burning a few hundred rounds and your wallet not being a crispy critter in the process....not to mention this damned move by the BATFE ruined my plan of taking advantage of a nice deal PSA had on their 420 rd box of it. this crap happens, and poof, all of it is gone.

[FortTom]

Well I'm not sure what to say, but I'm gonna try. I was just going to stay out, but I can't, OP and all, besides I'm irritated now, this wasn't about the specific ammo...we're on the same side. I'm not trying to stir shit...

I'll restate the intent of my OP: "no disrespect FortTom, I didn't articulate the point. The argument, for me is the effort to erode or further compel another restriction on gun rights. ... in some small way I apply this premise to the proposed action by the BAFTE." Go up to catch the full comment.

I got your points FortTom, my subsequent commentary was intended to bolster the point I should have made in the OP, I made an assumption: the issue is more than the ammo, it is as I have quoted above.

Your commentary in your initial post indicated, to me you missed MY implied point. I was not calling you out or piling on with my subsequent commentary and I don't think anybody was, it was merely an attempt to reinforce the intent of my OP.
Don't know why you couldn't resist dragging this out, if you read up a few posts, you'll see that I offered up a mea culpa. Secondly you weren't singled out, or even mentioned by name, and last, not only did I mention that the ammos was shit (I have a lot of it and have shot a lot of it), but also mentioned that it didn't meet ATF' definition of armor piercing ammo. I would think you would have taken from that, that the whole thing was bogus in the first place, but how you got to imply that it [ban] was a big deal, the inference being that I don't care about the ramifications of more bans is beyond me. So, mea culpa aside, if you need to drag this out further, why don't you do it through a PM, as I'm sure we could hammer out the misunderstanding on both sides, in a gentlemanly and mutually respectful way. If you just wanted a parting shot, I'm your Huckleberry, have at it. but you only get one. Fair enough?


other than the obvious point of stopping them from trampling all over our rights under the 2nd, yes it may be 'meh' ammo, but when us less wealthy guys want to burn through mags, its a good choice. it may not be a 'quality' load, but it fills the purpose of burning a few hundred rounds and your wallet not being a crispy critter in the process....not to mention this damned move by the BATFE ruined my plan of taking advantage of a nice deal PSA had on their 420 rd box of it. this crap happens, and poof, all of it is gone.

Rob, for the money, I'm still seeing 420 round cans of the Federal 55 grain going for around 170 ish or so. If you like that and it shoots well for you, it's still fairly cheap. If you want some and can't find it, I can turn you on to a guy who I think has a bunch of it in his store, just PM me.

FT[:D]

[GOST]

FT has a right to an opinion, and has made some valid points.


This whole mess in my opinion, has a great deal of fault with the shooting community. It's another case of poking the bear one too many times. Several years ago during the "assault rifle" ban, gun writers in magazines absolutely dumped on any "anti" for using the term "assault rifle", saying it was an obscure term used by the military only. There were no "assault weapons" in the civilian world. Now every item in a magazine is an "assault rifle", scope, knife, ballpoint pen, assault boots, assault ice cream, anything they can attach the term "assault" to make it sound more bad assed.

Some unscrupulous ammo sellers advertise M855 as being able to do everything from stop tornadoes to locomotives. And a lot of shooters perpetuated that myth in gun forums. I see it in some forums somewhat often.



The same thing has happened with the Sig arm brace, which I personally don't care for. People went around bragging about using it as a stock and wanting a letter from the ATF saying that it was OK. Then when the ATF told them no they acted surprised. FT's point is that the same thing is going on now with the M855.

FT is not the enemy against M855, and these threads suck once they go political. If someone has news to post on this topic then post it, otherwise it doesn't look like there is anything else worth posting in this thread.

[Stone]

http://www.nssfblog.com/oppose-atf-556-m855-ball-ammunition-ban/

[Canexpat]

... it doesn't look like there is anything else worth posting in this thread.

Respectfully GOST, I am out of the thread.

"Fallacy of logic" applies to this thread progression.

[RobSWVA]

Rob, for the money, I'm still seeing 420 round cans of the Federal 55 grain going for around 170 ish or so. If you like that and it shoots well for you, it's still fairly cheap. If you want some and can't find it, I can turn you on to a guy who I think has a bunch of it in his store, just PM me.

FT[:D]

The main reason I was wanting to run some was the info I have looked up online saying that 62-64 grain projectiles were best for a 1:7 16" barrel. I know that may just be personal opinion and not scripture, but the recommendation plus the price had me willing to pick up a can. Since all of this b.s. has happened and ALL .223/5.56 is now hen's teeth around here, I guess I'll just grab a couple smaller boxes of different grain and see what works best. probably shouldve planned on that anyway at first, but didnt want to miss out on a good deal at the time.

[FortTom]

Yeah, I bought 800 rounds of 55 grain "Wolf Gold" Saturday, and the guy was already out Sunday. I'm afraid we're coming up on another ObamaScare. Next thing, cheap AR's will be going for $4K, parts will triple, etc.
I figured the "green tip" would fly off the shelves pretty quick, but didn't expect everything else to. This has been a record year here, we've still got a foot of frozen snow on the ground, and I haven't got to go to the range once, in quite a while, and now it looks like I'll either have to ration my ammo, dip into my "reserves" or shoot a lot of pistol and Trap this summer. I'd like to shove a 5.56 up some (will not be named here) ones damned ass, sideways....

On the bright side, I find that in my rifles the 55 grain Wolf Gold shoots better in most of my 16" barrels than the "green tip", which I have quite of bit of also, and the WG is just 6 bucks a box. Reloadable brass, and burns cleaner too. So I might just start burning up some 62gr. green tip, and save the other.

FT

[GOST]

I've also gotten good results outta the 55 grain Wolf Gold in my 14.5".

[Thompson]

The main reason I was wanting to run some was the info I have looked up online saying that 62-64 grain projectiles were best for a 1:7 16" barrel.
If you're interested in just a 62 gr round, Freedom Munitions (http://www.freedommunitions.com/category-s/1916.htm) sells a decent chunk that aren't "AP." They make both .223 and 5.56, but 5.56 is always damn near impossible to find in stock [bash] (at least since last November it's been like this).

Out of the limited number of 62gr rounds I've shot - seems to run well; no problems, but then again I wouldn't expect anything less from Freedom Munitions.

And likewise, I've gotten good results from Wolf Gold as well, although I'm a crappy shot. But otherwise, haven't had any problems running it.

[Ride4frnt]

I was in gander mountain in winchester VA yesterday and they had BOAT LOADS of 855 left. Higher than normal price, but not horrible. About $.50 a round.

[FortTom]

I was in gander mountain in winchester VA yesterday and they had BOAT LOADS of 855 left. Higher than normal price, but not horrible. About $.50 a round.

I just got back from Dick's about an hour ago. Needed some more shells for a combo Pheasant / Quail hunt this coming weekend. Kid behind the counter said they almost sold out all they had today. (5.56) 55 grain.
It looks like the panic is on, at least here, anyway. I hope we don't have to go through this shit again.[bash]

[Thompson]

It looks like the panic is on, at least here, anyway. I hope we don't have to go through this shit again.[bash]
I think it's everywhere FT. From what it looks like, my local shop is pretty much all out of the decently affordable 5.56/.223. SGA Ammo's got nothing, Freedom Munitions practically has nothing, and places like Brownells doesn't have much of a selection left.

... the hoarding has begun ...

[FortTom]

I think it's everywhere FT. From what it looks like, my local shop is pretty much all out of the decently affordable 5.56/.223. SGA Ammo's got nothing, Freedom Munitions practically has nothing, and places like Brownells doesn't have much of a selection left.
, f
... the hoarding has begun ...

I have about 4K of ammo. Not hording, figured I would shoot it up, easily through the summer. As a new RSO, I was going to get a little more range time. Guess I'll have to be prudent about what I shoot. Maybe, if we have another "ObamaScare", I'll wait until the price goes to 2 bucks a round and sell 3 or 4 ammo cans of "green tip" to the dumbasses that will facilitate this totally stupid panic so the "anti's" have something that they can claim as a "life". How about 1K a can folks? Have some Swiss made M855? Extra bright and polished looking brass?

Thompson, with all due respected and definitely not dicking with you.
Just get sick of these "ammo runs" from people freaking out over something that hasn't even happened yet. Soon, a round for a couple of rabbits or a squirrel (.22 ammo), will cost me 2 bucks a shot....[crazy]

[RobSWVA]

yeah, the 5.56/.223 ammo run is full blown. the local walmart usually has multiple choices on brand and grain, but the shelves had a huge hole where the 5.56/.223 usually is; not a single box was left.

[Thompson]

Thompson, with all due respected and definitely not dicking with you.
Just get sick of these "ammo runs" from people freaking out over something that hasn't even happened yet. Soon, a round for a couple of rabbits or a squirrel (.22 ammo), will cost me 2 bucks a shot....[crazy]
Oh no, I completely agree with you. I don't have a problem if you're buying ammo and you're planning on using it. What I do have a problem with is those people who plan to hoard 5k + rounds with no intention to shoot any of it and only plan to resell it and price gouge folks.

Sorry - hope you didn't think that I meant you were hoarding. I meant ^ those people.

... March 16th needs to get here sooner so people will stop going crazy ...

[FortTom]

I think one problem that's contributing to the hoarding and gouging problem, is that most of the media didn't differentiate between the 62 grain, green tip, from regular 55 gn. ammo. Fox news was the first one I saw go into detail and singled out the "green tip" as the round the ATF (Obama) wants to ban. I'm guessing a lot of "AR" folks don't know the damned difference, either. This is the dangers we all face with a "Pen and Phone" legislative branch.

[Thompson]

I think one problem that's contributing to the hoarding and gouging problem, is that most of the media didn't differentiate between the 62 grain, green tip, from regular 55 gn. ammo. Fox news was the first one I saw go into detail and singled out the "green tip" as the round the ATF (Obama) wants to ban. I'm guessing a lot of "AR" folks don't know the damned difference, either. This is the dangers we all face with a "Pen and Phone" legislative branch.
Yeah - that's probably a big reason why we saw the run on all 5.56. The media spews AR-15 ammo ban + your joe average AR-15 once a month shooter who can't distinguishes between different types of rounds.

I haven't specifically been looking at what mainstream media has blabbered about this, but the majority, I'd say, is just saying a general 5.56 ban, not a specific mention like Fox did.

[SINNER]

Gone around this area too. Everything 5.56 anyway. Got some LC XM80 for 55 cents a round.[:D]

[FortTom]

I think we'll get a "friendly" court injunction, stopping his using of federal agencies as a means of passing legislation, that the Congress has forbid him to do legally.

The House and Senate, with a bipartisan vote refused to ban the AR-15. They stopped Obama in his tracks. So, Obama is doing, again, his rule by decree, damn the Congress and the Constitution back door pen and phone legislating. Unfortunately most Americans are standing around with their heads in the sand as he gets bolder and bolder. He is dangerously getting close to being a dictator, and relatively few seem to know what he's doing, or even giving a damn.

Although it can take years for these cases to work themselves through the court system, an injunction, in the works, can and will be very telling how the Supreme Court, will rule. The injunction sites that the Congress did not approve of a ban of AR-15's. So, he has developed a scheme which bypasses the law, and is trying to ban the ammo, therefore the weapon itself. I think the injunction, which I think he (Obama) will be on the losing side, as it specifically specifies he was defeated by due lawful process, will earn him a very big bitch slap, from the courts. I also do not believe he will stop at one specific type of ammunition, but any ammunition that can be fired through an AR "style" rifle. I believe we'll hear whether to courts will rule in favor of an injunction, within a couple of weeks.

The next step should be impeachment, for his continually and blatently breaking the laws set forth in our Constitution as to how laws are passed. However, only 20 or 30 representatives and senators have the balls to stop this tyrant in his tracks. I expect that he'll also strike out on his own, and override the Congress not giving him the ban on AR's he wanted. He recognizes the fact that our Congressmen don't have the balls to stop a blatant dictator in his tracks, and again circumvent the law, by "decree".

I truly hope the courts will do the right thing here, but if not, look forward to an attempt from Obama to do an all out end run around Congress, and begin a ban on replacement parts that fit an AR, parts to build one, and so on and so forth. So, now the hoarding begins? Folks with a decent amount of expendable income get what they want or feel they need, where other's who are having tough times keeping roofs over their heads and groceries in the fridge and shelves get the shit end of the stick.

People will swear "never to do business again, with companies who already have a proven record of gouging" will start gouging. And folks will support them also.

I truly hope I'm 100% wrong, I really do. I'd love to look back at this post in a few weeks and laugh at myself (and I do, occasionally) as being "paranoid" and claiming the sky is falling, but I have a sick feeling churning inside.

And it all starts with a little green dab of paint on the end of a bullet.

[RobSWVA]

Well I see one congressman has put forth a bill to strip the BATFE of their power to regulate ammo. I hope that grows legs and runs far. Oh, and I also saw a few headlines (didnt read in detail) about some action obama is taking to federalize police forces? wtf...

[CK 187]

I think we'll get a "friendly" court injunction..........






..............And it all starts with a little green dab of paint on the end of a bullet.



Great post FT

[Aberration79]

I think the ATF, EPA, and federal government have painted themselves into a corner of stupidity with their arbitrary and conflicting rulings. One could only hope that there are enough reasonable judges for rulings to come, even if slowly. Quite honestly if you look back over the last 50 years we have made tremendous progress. Real progress not that crap politicians talk about. I know a lot of people want instant gratification and its frustrating that we can't have it all. The wheels of justice grind slowly.

[toolboxluis00200]

Mrgunandgear video
http://youtu.be/NEOSYi5A_TY

[Dstrbdmedic167]

Well looks like the 80,000 comments were heard, at least for now.

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2015-03-021015-advisory-notice-those-commenting-armor-piercing-ammunition-exemption-framework.html

[Thompson]

Good. People can stop hoarding 5.56 now, so I can get back to being able to shoot :P

[Eric]

The attempted ban is dead for now.
NRA Press Release. (https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150310/nra-forces-obama-to-waive-white-flag-on-proposed-ammo-ban-for-now)

[voodoo_man]

they should ban the atf.

[velocity2006]

they should ban the atf.

Agreed.

[Thompson]

they should ban the atf.
I can't remember where I heard this from, but there's been mumbling about disbanding the ATF on the premise that the FBI and DoJ already do what the ATF does (and arguably better)

But definitely agreed, it should be ridded of.

[FortTom]

They (ATF) were just being good zombie like functionaries. Don't think Obama has the FBI and especially the DOJ standing by to perform sexual favors? Banning the ATF might save tax dollars, but won't stop future little tyrants like Barry "O". Hell, seems like the Congress can't even touch them now. Only the voters at the voting booth.

FT

[Former11B]

It's not over yet:

THEY HAVEN’T GIVEN UP ON GUN CONTROL: The Hill: Dems Push ATF To Revive Bullet Ban:

Congressional Democrats are pressuring the Obama administration to move ahead “swiftly” with a proposal that would ban a form of armor-piercing ammunition.

In a draft letter first obtained by The Hill, Democrats are urging the director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) to use his “existing authority” to keep “dangerous ammunition out of our communities.”

“We hope that the Bureau will swiftly review comments on the proposed framework and issue a revised proposal that will address the danger posed by handguns that fire 5.56mm and other rifle ammunition,” Democrats write in the letter.

The ATF had sought to prohibit gun companies from manufacturing or selling 5.56 mm projectiles for M855 cartridges, arguing they are a threat to law enforcement officers because they can be used in handguns.

But the proposal generated a firestorm of opposition from Republicans and gun groups, who denounced it as an attack on the Second Amendment that could open the door to sweeping restrictions on ammunition.

With the backlash growing, the ATF backed down earlier this week, shelving the proposal indefinitely to allow time for “further study.”

House Democrats in their letter say they are “very disappointed” that the ATF delayed the rule.

[Ride4frnt]

In other news, maryland law makers are pushing for self defense carry permits. No longer "good and substantial" reason to carry

[Thompson]

In other news, maryland law makers are pushing for self defense carry permits. No longer "good and substantial" reason to carry
Kind of surprised to hear this (in a good way), since both Chambers are Deomcrat-controlled. Anyways, I'm sure my friend would be happy to hear that!

[JoshAston]

Kind of surprised to hear this (in a good way), since both Chambers are Deomcrat-controlled. Anyways, I'm sure my friend would be happy to hear that!

I'm happy to hear that! Hope it goes through