Magpul Obtains Judgment against Elite Tactical Systems in Patent Infringement Suit

[Eric]

Link (https://www.magpul.com/propaganda?itemId=News:38)

Magpul Obtains Judgment against Elite Tactical Systems in Patent Infringement Suit

February 25, 2015 — Magpul Industries Corp. announced today that it has concluded its patent infringement lawsuit against Elite Tactical Systems Group (E.T.S.), with the Court entering a judgment that E.T.S. infringed four Magpul patents—U.S. Patent Nos. 8,069,601, 8,635,796, 8,839,543, and 8,166,692. The Court ordered E.T.S. to immediately stop making, using, offering for sale, and selling its infringing magazines for AR-15/M16 rifles and carbines and its Rapid Recognition Follower. In addition, the Court ordered E.T.S. to destroy or permanently modify the molds used to manufacture the accused products. Lastly, the Court ordered E.T.S. to pay Magpul monetary damages.



This resolution of the E.T.S. suit was the lastest in a series of enforcement initiatives that Magpul started in 2013 against ProMag Industries, Cole Industries, Plinker Tactical, and Big Rock Sports (doing business as Swamp Fox) for offering for sale, selling, and distributing magazines for AR15/M16 compatible weapons that were alleged to be in violation of Magpul’s patents. ProMag, Cole Industries, and Big Rock Sports all settled their disputes with Magpul on confidential and mutually agreeable terms. The District Court entered a judgment against Plinker Tactical, finding that Plinker infringed Magpul’s patents and awarding damages.



Magpul notes that in every instance where it has taken legal action against another magazine manufacturer, the product in question is now either no longer in production or is no longer produced with the features that prompted Magpul’s lawsuit.



About Magpul



Founded in 1999, Magpul was launched with the intent of developing innovative devices to aid in the manipulation of rifle magazines while reloading under stress. The company’s name comes from this original product called the Magpul®. Over the last decade Magpul has continued to grow and develop using much the same mission and process with a focus on innovation, creativity, and efficiency.



www.magpul.com



Media Contact:

Duane Liptak, Jr.

Director of Product Management and Marketing

dliptak@magpul.com

303.828.3460 x170

[Eric]

Well that's frustrating. I understand Magpul protecting their intellectual property, but now I wish I had purchased more ETS mags. They worked great and the material used appeared to be stronger than Magpul's.

[CK 187]

I was curious, so i wanted to look up the patents and see just how watertight this ducks ass is


http://www.patentbuddy.com/Patent/8069601

http://www.patentbuddy.com/Patent/8635796?ft=true&sr=true

http://www.patentbuddy.com/Patent/8839543?ft=true&sr=true

http://www.patentbuddy.com/Patent/8166692?ft=true&sr=true



Sounds like polymer magazine manufacturers better be doing their research before going to market

[UWone77]

Ouch.....

[JHoward]

That sucks! Hopefully ETS comes out hard with their Glock mags.

[UWone77]

On arfcom, ETS stated they changed the design and settled with Magpul. They are continuing to make magazines. I'm wondering if Magpul is just doing this for PR to put the bug in the consumers ear.

[Ride4frnt]

Yikes. I hope they do have their ducks in a row for the glock mags since both companies are now making them.

[toolboxluis00200]

best way to stay in the game is to
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

[Ride4frnt]

Where'd you copy and paste that from luis?

[Thompson]

On arfcom, ETS stated they changed the design and settled with Magpul. They are continuing to make magazines. I'm wondering if Magpul is just doing this for PR to put the bug in the consumers ear.
I got really worried for a second. Glad to hear this though.

Sucks either way.

I guess that means that the ones we all have now are limited edition? lol

[SINNER]

Money talks. Those patents are so loosely written anyone with enough money could tear them apart in court. But just like suing the Feds over taxes, you can not compete in court with entities that spend more on toner than your companies' entire net worth.

[RiverRat]

Coming from a career in the pharmaceutical industry, I fully understand the motivation to apply for and protect patents. And I generally approve of the way Magpul handles itself as a company, especially with respect to the whole Colorado standard capacity magazine fiasco. Their tight-lipped approach to relocation timeframes was a bit of a PR mistake, but I'm sure they had their reasons.

All that said, I'm sad to see such a legal burden placed on a small company like ETS when they are producing a product with some really innovative features. Heck, I'm now even inclined to see just how good ETS' products are (oops, there's another Magpul PR backfire right there.....)

In the [otherforum] post that UW references, ETS said that simply removing the rear leg from the follower settles the suit without affecting follower stability. I hope their follower really is that rigid. But does that really address the full breadth of infringement across the 4 patents referenced in the suit? I'm rooting for ETS here (despite my appreciation of Magpul's products) - but I wonder if this is really the last we'll hear of this.

[toolboxluis00200]

Where'd you copy and paste that from luis?

internet [BD]

[CK 187]

Where'd you copy and paste that from luis?

LMAO

[JHoward]

Where'd you copy and paste that from luis?

Hahaha! This was my exact thought when I read it.

[GOST]

Let's hope the new ETS design is even better.

[Uffdaphil]

best way to stay in the game is to
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

Arnold as Conan if I remember correctly. Though it may have been Joan Rivers.

[toolboxluis00200]

i hope the glock mags don't get set back

[Thompson]

Let's hope the new ETS design is even better.
I'd imagine so. The Gen 1's have been out for a decent bit now; I'm sure they've got plenty of feedback already. In fact I remember ETS saying they've already got updates planned out for the Gen 2's already. Whether or not this whole debacle changes anything, however, is yet to be discovered.

[din]

Conan the Barbarian, not the Destroyer.

And I will never purchase another magpul product.

[Eric]

ETSGroup posted this on the related thread here. (http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?6457-ETS-Group-Translucent-AR-Magazines-with-Coupling-System/page8)




Elite Tactical Systems Group is please to announce that we have reached a settlement agreement with Magpul regarding the patent infringement suit. We have agreed to make a small change to the follower in our AR15 magazine and to pay royalties for mags sold between May and October of 2014.

We would like to give a little background explanation about our design and how the suit progressed. Among other things, Magpul's patent states that their mag design has a follower with a front and back leg, wherein the legs limit tilt if the follower within the housing. When we designed our mag and follower, we engineered all of our anti tilt functionality with just the front leg of our follower. Thus the back leg on our follower was simply there to act as a spring guide, nothing more. We thought that was not infringing on their patents. However, during the course of the suit we became aware of another patent in which Magpul claims only a follower with a front and back leg, no mention is made of those legs limiting tilt of the follower. Once we became aware of this claim and patent, we immediately agreed to remove the back leg from our follower. We knew this would have no impact on the overall anti tilt function of our follower and thus it would not affect the performance of our magazine. We started by manually removing all of the back legs from our existing inventory on 11-17-14. Every mag sold since that date has been of the new configuration without a back leg on the follower. In the following months, after some back and forth, we reached a settlement agreement with Magpul. That agreement was submitted to the court and signed by the judge on 2/19/2015.

We are excited to resolve this issue and move forward. We want to make it clear to everyone that we will continue to sell the most advanced and durable AR15 magazines on the market.

We also want to state that we absolutely did not copy Magpul's designs when we set out to create our magazine, as was evidenced by absolutely no affect on performance when we removed the back leg on our follower. We spent a year and a half designing, testing, tweaking, and perfecting our revolutionary mag to get it ready for market.

The following is a list of features that separates our magazine from a Pmag:
1. Material (obviously our translucent polymer is not even close to the material used in a Pmag, especially in impact resistance)
2. Our patent pending, completely integrated coupling system
3. Super easy disassembly
4. Our specially designed grip ribs on the housing of our mag
5. The grip rib on our floor plate that aids in extracting our mags from a pouch
6. Our RRS (Rapid Recognition System) colored follower and base insert pieces for fast easy recognition from any angle with our see through housing

We will continue to manufacture the best AR mags money can buy and we look forward to new and exciting products coming shortly.

www.ETSgroup.us

To me, this overall sounds like good news. ETS will still be cranking out great mags, albeit with a slight tweak to the design. The tone of Magpu's release gave me more of an impression that they required the action of a judge for a finding, but it appears this was an agreed disposition on the part of both parties. It would be nice to see Magpul clarify that.

Non-coupled ETS mags are just about impossible to find right now, but I'm sure that will change soon. I'm hoping to find a good deal on a batch!

[Magpul]

On arfcom, ETS stated they changed the design and settled with Magpul. They are continuing to make magazines. I'm wondering if Magpul is just doing this for PR to put the bug in the consumers ear.

We are required to defend patents and all intellectual property for it to remain valid.

[Magpul]

Well that's frustrating. I understand Magpul protecting their intellectual property, but now I wish I had purchased more ETS mags. They worked great and the material used appeared to be stronger than Magpul's.

You will still be able to buy magazines that are modified so as not to infringe on the patents.

In regards to strength, we could easily formulate the PMag to match the impact strength of this and other magazines on the market by reducing our tensile strength (making the material softer). We choose not to do this as our testing shows a critical balance between impact and tensile strength for maximum reliability. Others disagree with this concept and build magazines differently.

To see how much damage a PMag M3 can take and still function reliability please review the following testing videos.


http://youtu.be/jQxYXTYohPI?list=PLLLtq9scclwKVYVSGUsrOsprdHo_TKJt 7

[UWone77]

You will still be able to buy magazines that are modified so as not to infringe on the patents.

In regards to strength, we could easily formulate the PMag to match the impact strength of the this and other magazines on the market by reducing our tensile strength (making the material softer). We choose not to do this as our testing shows a critical balance between impact and tensile strength for maximum reliability. Others disagree with this concept and build magazines differently.

To see how much damage a PMag M3 can take and still function reliability please review the following testing videos.


http://youtu.be/jQxYXTYohPI?list=PLLLtq9scclwKVYVSGUsrOsprdHo_TKJt 7

Thanks for chiming in Magpul.

I will say that I've broken 6 or 7 Gen 2 PMags, but the Gen 3 seem to be much much stronger.

[Magpul]

Money talks. Those patents are so loosely written anyone with enough money could tear them apart in court. But just like suing the Feds over taxes, you can not compete in court with entities that spend more on toner than your companies' entire net worth.

We have successfully defended these very patents against a company who is much larger than us and with deeper pockets.

[KevinBLC]

What's up with all the hate on magpul? ETS admitted part of their design infringed their patent, whether it was non intention doesn't make a difference. If you had intellectual property, you'd want to defend it and protect it too.

[Magpul]

Conan the Barbarian, not the Destroyer.

And I will never purchase another magpul product.

We too like Conan the Barbarian and not Conan the Destroyer. (I often use the "time enough for the earth in the grave" quote when posting at 1 am rather than going to sleep)

That said, we are a nation of Laws. Traffic Laws, Tax Laws, Firearms Laws, Property Laws and Intellectual Property Laws.

Patents and Intellectual Property are probably the most important to freedom because it is the individual ownership thoughts and ideas. United States patent law is authorized by Article One, section 8, clause 8 of the U.S. Constitution itself which states:

The Congress shall have power ... To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;


Sorry to lose you as a customer but expecting us to not protect and defend our IP while having to abide by other existing patents under current US patent law is just ignorant.

[UWone77]

Inevitably, Magpul was going to be in a position where people were going to take sides, for and against.

From my understanding, ETS admitted the infringement, made a settlement that was agreeable to both parties, and the court confirmed it.

I will continue to use and purchase Magpul products as well as ETS.

[Eric]

Thanks for joining the discussion and providing your input Magpul. Like many others, I've spent a lot of time and money with Magpul products. Remember selling the original Magpul out of the house? I'm sure there's plenty of folks who don't know how the product line evolved or how it started. I hope to see ETS flourish as well. Competition is good for the consumer.

[ETSGroup]

I just wanted to chime in here and say that there are no hard feelings with Magpul defending their IP. Like I stated, we made an honest mistake, we have corrected it, and we are moving on.

I do feel that Magpul's post regarding the resolution of the suit is definitely misleading the average reader (since most people are not attorneys). We have gotten tons of traffic and people asking if we are still making AR mags. And when we tell people that we are, they say that's not what Magpul's website says. Some people even think we are lying about us agreeing to a settlement. It really would be nice if you guys over at Magpul could make your post a little more clear about us reaching a settlement agreement.

Either way, what's done is done. Time to turn our attention to the future.

[ETSGroup]

Ohh and I also wanted to say that removing the back leg was actually an improvement in performance because it prevents the follower from breaking even in crazy impacts like a 20 ft drop. Previously, there were rare times when a follower would break in a severe impact because the strain of the 30 rounds slamming into it would be too much. Now that the back leg is gone, the follower moves slightly lower, causing the spring to fully support the follower at the point when it bottoms out, preventing it from cracking.

Just wanted to throw that out there. And I assure everyone that the awesome anti tilt function of our follower is completely intact in the new version.

[toolboxluis00200]

i think becose all the mental anguish that Magpul did to my wallet you need to send me one of this for my .22lr SPR
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/719/719226.jpg

[Magpul]

Just for perspective, back in 1998 when I first had the idea for the original Magpul, the very first thing I did was hire a guy I knew who just passed the bar as a Patent lawyer to review the invention and file for a Patent. This was before I even had Magpul set up as a company. This was the first patent I ever had issued (http://www.google.com/patents/US6212815)

Without the protection of the Magpul design being "patent pending" I would have never risked the $12,000 capital (my entire savings) to build tooling and Magpul would not exist as is is today.

So in short Patents help the little guy survive as much as the bigger ones.

[Pyzik]

I've been wondering how they can go after ETS and not MFT, Hexmag, promag (EDIT I see they did go after promag), tapco, ect.


Ohh and I also wanted to say that removing the back leg was actually an improvement in performance because it prevents the follower from breaking even in crazy impacts like a 20 ft drop. Previously, there were rare times when a follower would break in a severe impact because the strain of the 30 rounds slamming into it would be too much. Now that the back leg is gone, the follower moves slightly lower, causing the spring to fully support the follower at the point when it bottoms out, preventing it from cracking.

Just wanted to throw that out there. And I assure everyone that the awesome anti tilt function of our follower is completely intact in the new version.

Good to hear.

[CK 187]

Now that the back leg is gone, the follower moves slightly lower, causing the spring to fully support the follower at the point when it bottoms out, preventing it from cracking.


I was wondering how well that would work. Sounds like an upgrade

[Magpul]

Thanks for joining the discussion and providing your input Magpul. Like many others, I've spent a lot of time and money with Magpul products. Remember selling the original Magpul out of the house? I'm sure there's plenty of folks who don't know how the product line evolved or how it started. I hope to see ETS flourish as well. Competition is good for the consumer.

Just for perspective, back in 1998 when I first had the idea for the original Magpul, the very first thing I did was hire a guy I knew who just passed the bar as a Patent lawyer to review the invention and file for a Patent. This was before I even had Magpul set up as a company. This was the first patent I ever had issued (http://www.google.com/patents/US6212815)

Without the protection of the Magpul design being "patent pending" I would have never risked the $12,000 capital (my entire savings) to build tooling and Magpul would not exist as is is today.

So in short Patents help the little guy survive as much as the bigger ones.

[UWone77]

Just for perspective, back in 1998 when I first had the idea for the original Magpul, the very first thing I did was hire a guy I knew who just passed the bar as a Patent lawyer to review the invention and file for a Patent. This was before I even had Magpul set up as a company. This was the first patent I ever had issued (http://www.google.com/patents/US6212815)

Without the protection of the Magpul design being "patent pending" I would have never risked the $12,000 capital (my entire savings) to build tooling and Magpul would not exist as is is today.

So in short Patents help the little guy survive as much as the bigger ones.

I think I've spent more than 12K in Magpul Products alone! [:D]

Thanks for the tid-bit of history.

[Ride4frnt]

I think I've spent more than 12K in Magpul Products alone! [:D]

Thanks for the tid-bit of history.

I'm at maybe $1000. I sucks.

[Dstrbdmedic167]

I'm at maybe $1000. I sucks.

I'm right there with Ya

[Ordnance]

Just for perspective, back in 1998 when I first had the idea for the original Magpul, the very first thing I did was hire a guy I knew who just passed the bar as a Patent lawyer to review the invention and file for a Patent. This was before I even had Magpul set up as a company. This was the first patent I ever had issued (http://www.google.com/patents/US6212815)

Without the protection of the Magpul design being "patent pending" I would have never risked the $12,000 capital (my entire savings) to build tooling and Magpul would not exist as is is today.

So in short Patents help the little guy survive as much as the bigger ones.

Exactly... I want to point out that people stating "What about the little guy?" and giving the rhetoric that because of the size of another company they should concede their right to protect their interests are no better than the people who sat in downtown Manhattan spewing "We are the 99%" as if they were entitled to something that wasn't theirs. If Magpul had stolen the IP from ETS then those same people would be screaming for retribution from Magpul for ETS, so why is it you think the reverse isn't any more acceptable? Just sayin...

[Vel]

I can understand the money invested thing (In my industry it's $20k to patent a design) but what strikes me more is that certain manufacturers in the firearms industry act like highschoolers. This market is already under a microscope as is, no need to give the wrong group of people an edge in the fight we're battling already. This industry should embrace innovation and forward thinking because the bigger it gets the harder it is to knock down.

[Uffdaphil]

I can understand the money invested thing (In my industry it's $20k to patent a design) but what strikes me more is that certain manufacturers in the firearms industry act like highschoolers. This market is already under a microscope as is, no need to give the wrong group of people an edge in the fight we're battling already. This industry should embrace innovation and forward thinking because the bigger it gets the harder it is to knock down.

I'm not being snarky when I say I have no idea what the above advocates. I can read the statement two ways: That the industry should truly innovate, not just tweak someone else's concept. Or the opposite: That strengthening the industry is worth accepting some minor patent infringement.

[GOST]

That the industry should truly innovate, not just tweak someone else's concept.

I agree with this, but not the opposite. I don't think ETS infringed on Magpul's patent on purpose, but Magpul did not do anything wrong by defending what is their's.

[Tyrannosaur]

The only thing m upset about is I never bought stock in Magpul, then I could be the 1%

[ETSGroup]

I think one thing that we have been wondering is why us? The claim they sent us when they first filed their complaint was claim 23 of the 8635796 patent. This claim states a couple of things, to break it down, a magazine with a rectangular housing with a constant internal curve and a ridge centrally located on the inner front wall of the housing. It also has a follower that is a platform with 2 legs, front and rear. A floor plate capable of interfacing with the housing. And a spring between the follower and floorplate, wherein the legs on the follower limit rotation(tilt) within the housing.

Ok, that's pretty simple to understand. Lets take a look at the newish (it came out before our mag) H&K polymer translucent AR mag.

Does it have a housing that is rectangular with a constant curve internal geometry and a ridge centrally located on the front inner wall? Check...

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/ETSgroup/20150304_225748_zpsoscxdaxc.jpg

Does it have a follower with a front and back leg, and do they limit tilt in the housing? Check...

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/ETSgroup/20150304_225848_zpsbgtpa9tm.jpg

Does it have a floorplate that interfaces with the housing? Check...

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/ETSgroup/20150304_225913_zps9hopmfbj.jpg

Does it have a spring between the follower and floorplate? Of course it does...

So, as can easily be seen, the HK polymer mag does violate Magpul's patent...question is why haven't they been sued? Magpul keeps stating over and over that they have to aggressively protect their patents or they lose their right to do so, if that is the case then why hasn't HK been hit with it? There are other examples, but I think this one is a good easy one for everyone to understand...

Below is a copy and paste of Claim 23 of the '796 patent i am referring to.



23. An ammunition magazine comprising:
a. A casing having a mostly rectangular cross-section with fore and aft sides and two longer lateral sides and first and second open ends, the casing further comprising a ridge, centrally located on an interior side of the fore side and extending to a terminus located in the vicinity of the first open end, the casing further comprising a constant internal curve through a majority of the casing;

b. A follower residing within the casing, said follower further comprising a follower platform with two opposite tines at fore and aft positions that extend generally perpendicularly and distally therefrom;

c. A floor plate capable of interfacing the casing at the second end; and

d. A follower spring residing between the follower and floor plate; wherein the tines limit rotation of the follower within the casing.

[ETSGroup]

Please not that my last post in not intended to be smart ass towards Magpul, I am truly baffled as to why we were sued and not HK. I also have wondered why they didn't have their attorney send us a letter letting us know that we were infringing, we could have settled this whole ting out of court and saved everyone a bunch of money.

[GOST]

Please not that my last post in not intended to be smart ass towards Magpul, I am truly baffled as to why we were sued and not HK. I also have wondered why they didn't have their attorney send us a letter letting us know that we were infringing, we could have settled this whole ting out of court and saved everyone a bunch of money.

I understand how you feel, most of the time a cease and desist letter is issued first. As to why not go after other competitor's magazines, Magpul may have not thought any were good enough to rival theirs. When they reviewed your magazine they probably realized the PMAG was about to have some stiff competition. Magpul going after ETS has at least let the consumer know your product is the real deal.

[CK 187]

This market is already under a microscope as is, no need to give the wrong group of people an edge in the fight we're battling already


I have wondered why they didn't have their attorney send us a letter letting us know that we were infringing, we could have settled this whole ting out of court and saved everyone a bunch of money.

These two statements tie in well together


http://fullcontactenlightenment.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/grouphug.jpg

[SINNER]

I said it before and whoever is posting as Magpul denied it but if you think they do not weigh costs vs. reward in each suit they approach you are living in a dream world.

[KevinBLC]

I think one thing that we have been wondering is why us?

I'm gonna guess Magpul got tired of all the cease and desist letters, and finally decided to sue someone.

Easier to sue you than HK.

[ETSGroup]

I'm gonna guess Magpul got tired of all the cease and desist letters, and finally decided to sue someone.

Easier to sue you than HK.

Right, so that would mean they are picking on small companies. Several times throughout this law suit Magpul has posted that they aren't picking on small companies, they say they have to protect their IP or they lose that right. My question was if that is true, then why not HK.

But I suspect you are correct, it is much easier to sue a company with very small resources than larger ones, that's just common sense.

[WHSmithIV]

I wonder if Magpul is going to go after Hexmag or if they already have. I like my Hexmags and they work great.

[ETSGroup]

Based on my understanding of Magpul's patents, the Hexmag does not violate them. They left the rib off of the front wall and they don't have side guide rails.....

[toolboxluis00200]

Right, so that would mean they are picking on small companies. Several times throughout this law suit Magpul has posted that they aren't picking on small companies, they say they have to protect their IP or they lose that right. My question was if that is true, then why not HK.

But I suspect you are correct, it is much easier to sue a company with very small resources than larger ones, that's just common sense.

plus they make special mags for HK
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c0/a0/4c/c0a04c23964439ea2c1c2465b130b517.jpg
http://www.westcoastarmory.com/uploads/images/gallery/5f701a925129c649a9349b780a21d8e4-1318971926.jpg

[ETSGroup]

plus they make special mags for HK
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c0/a0/4c/c0a04c23964439ea2c1c2465b130b517.jpg
http://www.westcoastarmory.com/uploads/images/gallery/5f701a925129c649a9349b780a21d8e4-1318971926.jpg


Yeah, that's why I said I didn't to come across as being an ass, because they may have an agreement with them, and that's cool.

[toolboxluis00200]

i under stand what you are saying